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Old 2007-07-13, 09:37   Link #2101
chrno
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Just finished watching episode 11 last night. Talk about funny. Of course episode was funny as well. Ah yes that whole thing on "tsundere". Is it really being used properly? Hell it had me thinking. Is 'Kogami' a "tsundere" type? Even 'Konata' was relating her to one. Does that mean most "tsundere" types have to have long hair? I guess if it's short and boyish it doesn't count. As having short hair puts you as close to being "boyish" and hotheaded as it gets. The creators were having fun with this one. According to 'Shiraishi' she's not one by his definition. If she was then I guess she would be close to 'Shana'. But if anything she's closer to 'Yomi' from 'Azumanga Daioh'. Their personalities are similar in the fact that they get easily annoyed when someone agitates them. Not to mention when it's about dieting. But are kind and social practically most of the time. Definitely not like 'Haruhi'. Who's agitated all the time unless something works in her favor. Which is also 'Langley Shouryu Asuka'.

And why do I have this bad feeling that 'Akira' was scratching where the sun don't shine? Talk about "ballbuster". You have to laugh when she starts her rants. She'd make a cool shirt. But if she says that 'Kogami' is "tsundere" does that make 'Akira' a "yandere"? Nah she's just mean no matter how you look at it.
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Old 2007-07-13, 12:51   Link #2102
Vexx
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Slight correction: it's Kagami (かがみ) 。。。 not Kogami (こがみ).

Most tsundere's do tend to have long hair though its not automatic. I suppose its in the nature of contrasts that a tsundere is supposed to represent. The debate between a "time linear" tsundere versus a "crunchy outside creamy inside" tsundere will probably be eternal

That wasn't a bad feeling about Akira.... she *was*. She's just insane in a "needs meds" way
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Old 2007-07-13, 12:54   Link #2103
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A "tsundere" is a girl who is like a creme-filled pastry bun. May be a little burnt or hard on the outside, but has a soft creme-filling. Tsunderes can have very different personalities though...

Edit: Nvm A better answer snuck in before mine.
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Old 2007-07-13, 13:16   Link #2104
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Hahaha!! That's an interesting contrast "time-linear" vs "crunchy" on the outside and "creamy-filled" on the inside. Well, I guess I have yet to see a short haired one. And again the arguments will be eternal.

Oh I did say, 'Kogami'. At first I did accidently put 'Konata' instead by mistake when I meant to put 'Kogami'. So I went back and fixed it. So no errors on my part. That's why you proof-read. Also easy to mess up when you put those two names together.

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Old 2007-07-13, 13:39   Link #2105
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@Risaa: I've done that to you too many times ... I'll put a timer delay by my workstation. :P

Of course, there's several people who always beat me to the post as well, forcing me to re-edit a lot.
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Old 2007-07-13, 14:09   Link #2106
FatPianoBoy
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A Japanese friend of mine defines 'tsundere' as thus: 前はつんつん、後はてれてれ。 Before is brash, after is loving. I'm with Minoru on this one: 'tsundere' denotes a progression.
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Old 2007-07-13, 14:37   Link #2107
Vexx
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Ah but with the crunchy/creamy types, you get to ride the roller coaster over and over

Anyway... I'm kind of with Minoru in that there probably should be a specific term for this. I just don't care enough to come up with one.....

The word for crunch (vb.) is kamikudaku and the word for creamy (n.) is "kurimu no yo" ... no luck there.

Bristly.... the word "sawayaka" is possible (sharp and stimulating)

Yama'arashi is what I find for porcupine but that doesn't really cover it....

Probably have better luck picking a candybar brandname in Japan that is crunchy on the outside and creamy on the inside.

My wife says it makes this description makes her sound like a bug that Timon (Lion King meerkat) is about to eat.
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Old 2007-07-13, 15:11   Link #2108
AVPlaya
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I like the word Tsundere as it refer to serious gal with soft heart. I hear Minoru's definition but I thought it's a much better description of a state instead of a progression. After all, a Megane'kko denote a certain aspect's that's currently imbued with the character, not a progression of traits.
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Old 2007-07-13, 16:44   Link #2109
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I do know the *original* meaning was tagged on girls in ero-games who linearly progressed from tsun to dere. But that also begs the timeline problem.

To me, that's a limitation or shallow effect of the simple nature of ero-games. "real" personalities (or at least ones portrayed in anime) tend to be more complex with lots of cycling in and out of tsun and dere.

Heck, in Love Hina .... both Naru and Motoko routinely move from tsun to dere to tsun rinse/repeat multiple times even after they've been "won over" as it were.
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Old 2007-07-13, 16:46   Link #2110
teachopvutru
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Anyone cares to explain what "time linear" tsundere suppose to be?

All these talks about "creamy-filled and crunchy-crust" nearly make it sound like tsundere is edible @_@

Tsundere pastry bun Kagami flavor...
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Old 2007-07-13, 18:02   Link #2111
Vexx
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Briefly.... in erogames, initially the girl is violent and hates you (or something like that). In a series of choices, you wear away at that violent exterior until the demure "loving" side is exposed and you win the girl. So on Day 1, she smacks you in the knees.... and on Day X, she's feeding you by chopstick and cooing...... her violent nature just fades away (forever it seems).

wheee, game over.

"time linear" means it just progresses sequentially with no loopback or relationship cycles. Kind of like playing an RPG that's designed linearly so that once you leave a level there's never any point or opportunity to coming back and the monsters never repopulate or change tactics (or come after you for revenge).
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Old 2007-07-13, 18:49   Link #2112
teachopvutru
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So you mean a "time linear" tsundere is hard as first but later forever soft? As for the other kind of tsundere the girl has always been crunchy outside and creamy *drool* ... inside?
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Old 2007-07-13, 18:57   Link #2113
Risaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
So you mean a "time linear" tsundere is hard as first but later forever soft? As for the other kind of tsundere the girl has always been crunchy outside and creamy *drool* ... inside?
"Time linear" is like Dia from Harvest Moon: Save The Homeland (here I go with HM again... so nerdy). She's a real bitch when you first meet her, but over time, after you give her enough blueberries (I think it's blueberries she likes..), she becomes a very sweet and loving girl. She actually smiles at you!

...Until you start the next year. Then she forgets about you, and you start all over trying to win her sweet side again. Ah, such is life on a farm where sprites run amuck.

The reason I related "tsundere girl" to a pastry bun is that the girls themselves are like the pastries - their personality on the outside is hard, sometimes mean. But once you get to know them, you understand that they have a soft side (sweet gooey creme!), too. Most of the time the girls will put up their hard side, but sometimes they switch to their soft side... then they go to their hard side again (like whenever Kona teases Kagami, Kagami gets really sensitive and embarrassed. But she always returns to her regular hard-personality Kagami).
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Old 2007-07-13, 19:11   Link #2114
teachopvutru
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Sorry, haven't played Harvest Moon: Save The Homeland before

Anyway, I think I kinda understand now... Well, yeah, I knew what you meant by "crunchy-outside creamy-inside pastry bun" (can't stop saying it >_<) but I really liked the reference. Normally I can't quite put what tsundere means into words (granted I was never good at expressing what I think into words anyway)
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Old 2007-07-13, 19:27   Link #2115
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I tend to dislike the rough, dry exterior of a pastry bun...it's just too dry for my tastes, it makes eating such a chore. But indeed, the sweet gooey filling on the inside makes it all worth it. What does this have to do with anything? Um...

So...no one is using the term "hajinekko"? What a pity...
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Old 2007-07-14, 16:51   Link #2116
AVPlaya
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Kagami's Doki Doki Type

Alright let's talk about more MY favorite topic - Kagami as a Tsundere.

Actually I just want to point out something that occurred while I was watching Fumoff OP... Why does Kagami love this anime so much? Although it was based on a light novel, it was clearly aimed at male audience, and after the anime, otakus. I have a theory:

1. It's because Kagami identifies with Chidori's ultra-violent Tsundere-hood. Kagami can only dream that she gets to whack Kona on the head with a harisen every time she starts to talk about otaku-gibberish.

2. Maybe, that a quite, strong type like Sousuke IS HER TYPE????

From the L*S we can tell that she's a really HUGE FuruPani fan. She not only saw the anime (she knows Fumoffu OP), and she has an ENOURMOUS Bunta-kun at her bed; if you notice carefully that's her ONLY STUFFED ANIMAL (A normal Japanese teen's bed is like Tsukasa's, filled with various nuigurumis). Not to mention that the ONLY doujinshi that turns her head was an yaoi doujin with Sousuke on the cover (we can probably safely assume that the first pronographic image she's ever saw was Sousuke bending over). I would venture a guess that deep in her Dere Dere teenage heart, she longs for a man like Sousuke to lift her out of her normal, boring life of screaming at Kona every second. Oh where is that man who would blow up watermelon with gun on beach day - just for her?

Hey! A strong, quiet type... not likely to stand out.... has short hair... not overtly tall, but has a manly square face with prominent eyebrows... knows martial arts, probably KARATE... Dedicated himself to the service of an ultra violent female (and seemingly enjoying it)... OH MY GOSH, this can only mean that...

Spoiler for Unhide to read the BIG REVELATION!!!:


*I kid I kid... you can stop throwing rocks now... Itai!*

I think my theory is more interesting than Kona X Kagami... okay, not really. Everyone's waiting for the next Comiket to turn out say, oh, 10,000 L*S Yuri doujins. And the world will be a better place.

Now for something Completely Different.

On the sports side of the news, the 89th Summer Koshien has officially begun! But as fate would have it a huge typhoon just landed on Japan so almost every game's canceled. Our Katsukabe Kyoei High School baseball team has not played yet. Once they win their first game I'll start a tread to track it (I would feel pretty dumb if I start a tread and they lost their first game ).
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Old 2007-07-15, 00:26   Link #2117
Vexx
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yeah, I've been following the typhoon's track with some trepidation since its passing over a lot of cultural landmarks. One of the nastier hurricanes in terms of potential energy.

I suspected a secret connection between Kagami and
Spoiler:
since the first few episodes. (dies laughing)
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Old 2007-07-15, 08:12   Link #2118
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Yes you do.
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Old 2007-07-15, 13:13   Link #2119
aorta
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The only good thing about the new endings is that it keeps me from buying another cd.
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Old 2007-07-15, 15:29   Link #2120
AVPlaya
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Originally Posted by aorta View Post
The only good thing about the new endings is that it keeps me from buying another cd.
Yeah I'll have to agree...
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