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Old 2007-07-13, 14:09   Link #2101
FatPianoBoy
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 28
A Japanese friend of mine defines 'tsundere' as thus: 前はつんつん、後はてれてれ。 Before is brash, after is loving. I'm with Minoru on this one: 'tsundere' denotes a progression.
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Old 2007-07-13, 14:37   Link #2102
Vexx
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 59
Ah but with the crunchy/creamy types, you get to ride the roller coaster over and over

Anyway... I'm kind of with Minoru in that there probably should be a specific term for this. I just don't care enough to come up with one.....

The word for crunch (vb.) is kamikudaku and the word for creamy (n.) is "kurimu no yo" ... no luck there.

Bristly.... the word "sawayaka" is possible (sharp and stimulating)

Yama'arashi is what I find for porcupine but that doesn't really cover it....

Probably have better luck picking a candybar brandname in Japan that is crunchy on the outside and creamy on the inside.

My wife says it makes this description makes her sound like a bug that Timon (Lion King meerkat) is about to eat.
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Old 2007-07-13, 15:11   Link #2103
AVPlaya
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I like the word Tsundere as it refer to serious gal with soft heart. I hear Minoru's definition but I thought it's a much better description of a state instead of a progression. After all, a Megane'kko denote a certain aspect's that's currently imbued with the character, not a progression of traits.
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Old 2007-07-13, 16:44   Link #2104
Vexx
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I do know the *original* meaning was tagged on girls in ero-games who linearly progressed from tsun to dere. But that also begs the timeline problem.

To me, that's a limitation or shallow effect of the simple nature of ero-games. "real" personalities (or at least ones portrayed in anime) tend to be more complex with lots of cycling in and out of tsun and dere.

Heck, in Love Hina .... both Naru and Motoko routinely move from tsun to dere to tsun rinse/repeat multiple times even after they've been "won over" as it were.
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Old 2007-07-13, 16:46   Link #2105
teachopvutru
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Age: 23
Anyone cares to explain what "time linear" tsundere suppose to be?

All these talks about "creamy-filled and crunchy-crust" nearly make it sound like tsundere is edible @_@

Tsundere pastry bun Kagami flavor...
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Old 2007-07-13, 18:02   Link #2106
Vexx
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Briefly.... in erogames, initially the girl is violent and hates you (or something like that). In a series of choices, you wear away at that violent exterior until the demure "loving" side is exposed and you win the girl. So on Day 1, she smacks you in the knees.... and on Day X, she's feeding you by chopstick and cooing...... her violent nature just fades away (forever it seems).

wheee, game over.

"time linear" means it just progresses sequentially with no loopback or relationship cycles. Kind of like playing an RPG that's designed linearly so that once you leave a level there's never any point or opportunity to coming back and the monsters never repopulate or change tactics (or come after you for revenge).
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Old 2007-07-13, 18:49   Link #2107
teachopvutru
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So you mean a "time linear" tsundere is hard as first but later forever soft? As for the other kind of tsundere the girl has always been crunchy outside and creamy *drool* ... inside?
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Old 2007-07-13, 18:57   Link #2108
Risaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
So you mean a "time linear" tsundere is hard as first but later forever soft? As for the other kind of tsundere the girl has always been crunchy outside and creamy *drool* ... inside?
"Time linear" is like Dia from Harvest Moon: Save The Homeland (here I go with HM again... so nerdy). She's a real bitch when you first meet her, but over time, after you give her enough blueberries (I think it's blueberries she likes..), she becomes a very sweet and loving girl. She actually smiles at you!

...Until you start the next year. Then she forgets about you, and you start all over trying to win her sweet side again. Ah, such is life on a farm where sprites run amuck.

The reason I related "tsundere girl" to a pastry bun is that the girls themselves are like the pastries - their personality on the outside is hard, sometimes mean. But once you get to know them, you understand that they have a soft side (sweet gooey creme!), too. Most of the time the girls will put up their hard side, but sometimes they switch to their soft side... then they go to their hard side again (like whenever Kona teases Kagami, Kagami gets really sensitive and embarrassed. But she always returns to her regular hard-personality Kagami).
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Old 2007-07-13, 19:11   Link #2109
teachopvutru
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Sorry, haven't played Harvest Moon: Save The Homeland before

Anyway, I think I kinda understand now... Well, yeah, I knew what you meant by "crunchy-outside creamy-inside pastry bun" (can't stop saying it >_<) but I really liked the reference. Normally I can't quite put what tsundere means into words (granted I was never good at expressing what I think into words anyway)
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Old 2007-07-13, 19:27   Link #2110
Mirrinus
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I tend to dislike the rough, dry exterior of a pastry bun...it's just too dry for my tastes, it makes eating such a chore. But indeed, the sweet gooey filling on the inside makes it all worth it. What does this have to do with anything? Um...

So...no one is using the term "hajinekko"? What a pity...
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Old 2007-07-14, 16:51   Link #2111
AVPlaya
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Kagami's Doki Doki Type

Alright let's talk about more MY favorite topic - Kagami as a Tsundere.

Actually I just want to point out something that occurred while I was watching Fumoff OP... Why does Kagami love this anime so much? Although it was based on a light novel, it was clearly aimed at male audience, and after the anime, otakus. I have a theory:

1. It's because Kagami identifies with Chidori's ultra-violent Tsundere-hood. Kagami can only dream that she gets to whack Kona on the head with a harisen every time she starts to talk about otaku-gibberish.

2. Maybe, that a quite, strong type like Sousuke IS HER TYPE????

From the L*S we can tell that she's a really HUGE FuruPani fan. She not only saw the anime (she knows Fumoffu OP), and she has an ENOURMOUS Bunta-kun at her bed; if you notice carefully that's her ONLY STUFFED ANIMAL (A normal Japanese teen's bed is like Tsukasa's, filled with various nuigurumis). Not to mention that the ONLY doujinshi that turns her head was an yaoi doujin with Sousuke on the cover (we can probably safely assume that the first pronographic image she's ever saw was Sousuke bending over). I would venture a guess that deep in her Dere Dere teenage heart, she longs for a man like Sousuke to lift her out of her normal, boring life of screaming at Kona every second. Oh where is that man who would blow up watermelon with gun on beach day - just for her?

Hey! A strong, quiet type... not likely to stand out.... has short hair... not overtly tall, but has a manly square face with prominent eyebrows... knows martial arts, probably KARATE... Dedicated himself to the service of an ultra violent female (and seemingly enjoying it)... OH MY GOSH, this can only mean that...

Spoiler for Unhide to read the BIG REVELATION!!!:


*I kid I kid... you can stop throwing rocks now... Itai!*

I think my theory is more interesting than Kona X Kagami... okay, not really. Everyone's waiting for the next Comiket to turn out say, oh, 10,000 L*S Yuri doujins. And the world will be a better place.

Now for something Completely Different.

On the sports side of the news, the 89th Summer Koshien has officially begun! But as fate would have it a huge typhoon just landed on Japan so almost every game's canceled. Our Katsukabe Kyoei High School baseball team has not played yet. Once they win their first game I'll start a tread to track it (I would feel pretty dumb if I start a tread and they lost their first game ).
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Old 2007-07-15, 00:26   Link #2112
Vexx
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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yeah, I've been following the typhoon's track with some trepidation since its passing over a lot of cultural landmarks. One of the nastier hurricanes in terms of potential energy.

I suspected a secret connection between Kagami and
Spoiler:
since the first few episodes. (dies laughing)
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Old 2007-07-15, 08:12   Link #2113
wormspeaker
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Yes you do.
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Old 2007-07-15, 13:13   Link #2114
aorta
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The only good thing about the new endings is that it keeps me from buying another cd.
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Old 2007-07-15, 15:29   Link #2115
AVPlaya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aorta View Post
The only good thing about the new endings is that it keeps me from buying another cd.
Yeah I'll have to agree...
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Old 2007-07-16, 08:39   Link #2116
Yogo_Pogo
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I suspected a secret connection between Kagami and
Spoiler:
since the first few episodes. (dies laughing)
Please elaborate i want to know about your theory
...hum.. wait.. Are you serious about this? Did i fell in some kind of trap?

i want to thank people who answered my question about QED
in french i think it's something like this --> CQFD: Ce qu'il fallait démontrer
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Old 2007-07-16, 09:42   Link #2117
chrno
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Thank AVPlaya for giving such an in depth look on the concept of "tsundere". Of course then people like 'Kagami' can be every where. Only we didn't come up with this "otaku-difficult-gotta-know-what-your-talking-about" term. We just call them the ones that just have a bitchy side off and on but they really are nice once you get to know them. Now what would we call a 'Sakaki' type. Since 'Konata's little cousin met one. Oh though she doesn't know her name. Quiet doesn't smile often but you somehow feel drawn to them because they made your life a little better.

I'll stick with 'Yui' at least she's nowhere near complex or is she? And what's up with that chair she was on? She was sitting like a dog. And funny thing is I ran across a fanpiece depicting that very shot. Of course when you're hanging out on Japanese fansites you can only think that something dirty is going to pop up. Of course I find out it was in the actual episode. Again all the more reason they can make more out of than it is. After all you'd feel pretty in your own world if you had a chair that you could do that on. I worry about her.
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Old 2007-07-16, 09:50   Link #2118
AVPlaya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrno View Post
I'll stick with 'Yui' at least she's nowhere near complex or is she? And what's up with that chair she was on? She was sitting like a dog. And funny thing is I ran across a fanpiece depicting that very shot. Of course when you're hanging out on Japanese fansites you can only think that something dirty is going to pop up. Of course I find out it was in the actual episode. Again all the more reason they can make more out of than it is. After all you'd feel pretty in your own world if you had a chair that you could do that on. I worry about her.
Don't worry about her, she's quite normal. I already explained what that was here. Plus, it's in Konata's house. Why a middle age men and his very thin teen daughter has a Joba in their house, that I'm not sure of.
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Old 2007-07-16, 12:24   Link #2119
chrno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVPlaya View Post
Don't worry about her, she's quite normal. I already explained what that was here. Plus, it's in Konata's house. Why a middle age men and his very thin teen daughter has a Joba in their house, that I'm not sure of.
Hahaha!!
So that's what it is. I never seen anything like it. Man talk about references like hell. I guess if you're Japanese and familiar with as much of the culture you'll get all these inside jokes. Man 'AVPlaya' you sure know a lot of stuff. Don't tell me you're living in Japan?

Well, I'll say I am enjoying the show. In fact I'm enjoying it more since the direction took on a different turn. Now it just "bangs" out the jokes. Either I'll get them or I won't. But it will still be funny as all hell. But more than likely the show will take much viewing.

Now they mention this is the next part of the season. Is this the 2nd season portion after 13 or are they planning on doing more after this?
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Old 2007-07-16, 13:29   Link #2120
AVPlaya
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Originally Posted by chrno View Post
I guess if you're Japanese and familiar with as much of the culture you'll get all these inside jokes. Man 'AVPlaya' you sure know a lot of stuff. Don't tell me you're living in Japan?
No I'm not Japanese, but there was a time when I thought I was. My background is very unique... I grew-up on an island where there are a lot of Japanese visiting and living (can't go into detail because it is very small). My family is Chinese but my sister, well, my sister believe she's Japanese. She speak it fluently and worked as a tour guide in HS. Almost all her friends were Japanese. We were close so my friends became mostly Japanese. I also spend some time in Japan on vacation, at times pretending to be a student in their schools. I used to speak it well but after I moved to the States I've lost a lot of it... so I'm not as fluent as I used to be, but I am still very deep in the culture. I think I've said this before, but my sister looked and acted so Japanese, that she was discovered and went to Tokyo to train for idol-hood for a while (yes my sister was very "moe"). She got scared and returned soon with a lot of horror stories about Johnny's. It's not a place for kids to be. Just think of the idol I might get to know if she became one... hell maybe I'd even get to ask KyonKyon out.... NOT.

Quote:
Now they mention this is the next part of the season. Is this the 2nd season portion after 13 or are they planning on doing more after this?
No one really knows since we're in the middle of the 1st season, but based from the incredible Akiba popularity and CD sales, I'd say, yeah. Vexx-dono (who has read the manga) said there a lot more stories, plus plot don't really matter in L*S. They can keep doing this year after year like Keroro if they wanted to.
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