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View Poll Results: Lucky Star - Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 90 62.50%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 34 23.61%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 7.64%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 2.78%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.69%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.69%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.69%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.39%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-07-23, 11:04   Link #61
GoldAlchemist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Lucky*Star really isn't a "parody-comedy". It *is* a story about a group of girls, one of whom is otaku. So her doing otaku things is fine. Altering the "reality" of story is a line to be carefully crossed though.
Well, some otakus are pretty obsessed with only one character or one series. We could probably easily find Gundam-only or Nanoha-only otakus. They call that loyalty perhaps.

So, what if our heroine is currently mostly obsessed with Haruhi?

In my younger days, i do have friends who are die hard Evangelion fans, and you see Ayanami Rei all over the room.
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Old 2007-07-23, 11:05   Link #62
Vexx
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I guess I'll just be the guy standing over here waving the manga around as I reserve the right to continue to point out that KyoAni has kind of damaged their legacy of "being true to the material". Don't buy it expecting to see Haruhi, FMP, etc. It won't be the "Lucky*Star" you're looking for.
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Old 2007-07-23, 11:05   Link #63
Kinny Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
That's an interpretation .... Imagine that George Lucas purchased the rights to Peanuts and proceeded to make the material and inserting references to Star Wars and Indiana Jones. It might be funny, it might "cool" ... but it isn't really "Peanuts" anymore, is it?
It wouldn't be "Peanuts" if the parodies were inserted 100% of the time, but look in perspective, the majority of the show (I'd say about ~60-70%) has so far been sourced from the manga. And I think it has something to do with the "line of acceptability" for different people. (More below)

Quote:
And if you aren't familiar with Haruhi .... would the inserts still seem funny? If they are still funny, it's a better job of integration. If you keep waiting for a punchline that you can't find because it requires knowing Haruhi ... it failed.
That's the point really. Haruhi was too big a hit to be ignored by the average 2ch surfing otaku, the show's main audience, or the producers for that matter. If LS were to be made before Haruhi, I dare say Kyo-Ani would be sourcing other popular animes for references. Like you said, it's all about integrating the parody into the show, and IMHO, Kyo-Ani didn't do that bad a job.

And I'm not sure I agree with you about the punchlines, most of the punchlines I've seen were sourced from the manga, or even improved upon (like the sketch where Miyuki keeps forgetting to take out her mug from the microwave).

Quote:
Lucky*Star really isn't a "parody-comedy". It *is* a story about a group of girls, one of whom is otaku. So her doing otaku things is fine. Altering the "reality" of story is a line to be carefully crossed though.
I guess our "lines of acceptability" are set at different altitudes. My line has not yet been crossed, while already it has just crossed yours, though I would say my line isn't really that far from yours. On the other hand, pity poor Kaioshin-sama whose line (which I dare surmise is way below ours) has been trampled over mercilessly countless number of times.
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Old 2007-07-23, 11:14   Link #64
Kaoru Chujo
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I continue to be so glad I haven't read the manga. It would be such a downer to be forced to have the same reservations Vexx has about this great show.

The Peanuts and Star Wars example doesn't work, either, by the way, just like the Kanon example. They are different types of shows in ways Haruhi and LS are not. These are comedies with a deep side that depend a lot on the characters of the protagonists, so their genes are more closely related. Maybe 30Rock and Seinfeld?

Anyway, it all works for me so far. The only bad thing for me is that when I see the references it gets me down because I know a couple of people are going to go ballistic on AS as soon as they even hear there are references.

I'd rather talk about how great Sasaki Nozomi is, lol. By the way, the Miyakawa sisters are played by Takaguchi Sachiko (Hinata) and Kano Yui (Hikage). I don't know Takaguchi-san, but Kano Yui played Momoko in Sumomo mo Momo mo, and was co-winner with Hirano Aya of an award as best young seiyuu of 2006.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2007-07-23 at 11:27.
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Old 2007-07-23, 11:15   Link #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Lucky*Star really isn't a "parody-comedy". It *is* a story about a group of girls, one of whom is otaku. So her doing otaku things is fine. Altering the "reality" of story is a line to be carefully crossed though.
On that thought, Vexx, how does the manga deal with Konata's 'otaku-ness?' Does it mention specific things, or does the more general or bleeped-out route?

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Old 2007-07-23, 11:47   Link #66
Kinny Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
On that thought, Vexx, how does the manga deal with Konata's 'otaku-ness?' Does it mention specific things, or does the more general or bleeped-out route?

As a manga reader, I can say one of the few titles that do get mentioned is FMP, apart from that, the jokes about Kona-chan's otaku-ness is mostly in a general manner, like moe, bishoujo games, limited edition stuff and the like. So it is understandable that Vexx isn't all too happy with the perceived excessive levels of references. Like I said, my "line of acceptability" seems to be slightly higher than his, so I'm OK with it.
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Old 2007-07-23, 12:19   Link #67
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It seems there are two main camps against the Haruhi references. One wishes for references to other things; the other wishes to remove the references altogether in favor of something more generic, like in the original 4-koma.

For the first, one must consider what else would be appropriate. So far, LS has been doing a good job of keeping references appropriate. A scene to show what an insane driver Yui is? Initial D, of course. A scene involving how girls behave at school? Why not do Marimite? A scene filled with an incompetantly comical team carrying out a bizarre scheme? Keroro fits perfectly. A scene to demonstrate how crazy the otakus at work are? Why not the Hare Hare Yukai? Which easily-recognizable scenes would be more approrpiate? A pet peeve of mine is when people complain without trying to come up with a solution. Can you come up with more appropriate references when taking into account viewer knowledge, familiarity, and licensing issues?

For the second, all I can say is that it's oftentimes easier to relate to the characters when you know exactly what they're talking about. This isn't like Genshiken, where we're suppose to relate to the characters when they go on and on about made-up shows that we don't understand. Here, we're talking about shows we've actually seen ourselves. And of course, all the otaku jokes combined still make up only a minority of the actual screentime...

On a related note to the Haruhi references, it's interesting to note that a good deal of it isn't just about referencing the series itself, but the actual fandom. What better way to illustrate Konata's fandom than to tie it in with the actual fandom of the real world itself? Stuff like Megas Smoked Cheese Nyoro~n, the 2ch flame war over SHnY 9, and even Wa wa wa wasuremono are probably more accurately classified as references to fandom rather than to the show.

That's one thing that I'm really enjoying right now. It's very rare to see a studio pay so much attention to such obscure things. This is the equivalent of the respective studios giving us Suigintou as a Yakult spokesperson in a 3rd season of Rozen Maiden, Light taking up swimming lessons on a whim in the last few episodes of Death Note, an actual Yu-gi-oh character who ends every sentence with "in America", or even Brock saying to Ash in the next episode of Pokemon, "So I hear you like Mudkips."

As it stands now, the only thing that can beat LS at that this season is if Studio DEEN's anime-original arc of Higurashi features a fiesta, pinatas, and Keiichi admitting that he's lactose intolerant and hates tacos. Speaking of which, I hope Konata turns in "Unlimited Essay Works" for her next English assignment...
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Old 2007-07-23, 13:26   Link #68
GoldAlchemist
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Originally Posted by Mirrinus View Post
Speaking of which, I hope Konata turns in "Unlimited Essay Works" for her next English assignment...
Who knows, she might ... she might summon Kagami-sama to do it.

Anyhow, with the direction this particular issue is discussed here, i hope nobody gets Yamamoto Yutakaed.
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Old 2007-07-23, 13:56   Link #69
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Well, just posting to say I'm a tad bit disappointed, but I'm not *bitching* about Haruhi anymore on here. I'll never agree with what the majority of you have said, but you've put out some good points, and I'll just go with it. I should've expected the vast majority to disagree with me anyways, with what we're talking about here.

Happy posting.
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Old 2007-07-23, 14:05   Link #70
kenjiharima
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btw who are the two girls in comic shop...they look like the ones from the DS game L*S Moe Drill or they're original in the anime? The loli one said onee-san to the cashier.
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Old 2007-07-23, 15:03   Link #71
archanfels
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Well, here's a better question: What's the Japanese otakus' take on this episode? Are they thrilled to see their beloved Brigate chief / Nagamon again? or are they somewhat annoyed by the excessive amount of otherworldly invasion like some of us (myself included)

Because by the end of the day, it's their opinions that matters.
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Old 2007-07-23, 15:05   Link #72
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Quote:
Well, here's a better question: What's the Japanese otakus' take on this episode?
You better go looking somewhere else, because the few actual Japanese otakus that post here in AS aren't gonna represent anything.

And I bet their opinion is as divided as it is in this forum, what with the amount of Kyoani haters and fanboys 2ch sees.
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Old 2007-07-23, 15:10   Link #73
kenjiharima
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Nahh...leave those 2 girls for later reference to who are they.

Well then. Listening to Konata speak AS Haruhi she TOTALLY OWNS Kagami in Tsundereness. Just at the tone and the way Konata projected as Haruhi truly precious. Now we don't need vectors projects since KyoAni DID IT already. But I hear someone in the back screaming more.

Wonder if all tsundere are in one show...that be anime hell or heaven.

Edit:

BTW:

ONE MORE LOLI GIRL TO GO THERE COMPLETE!!!
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Last edited by kenjiharima; 2007-07-23 at 15:22. Reason: added something
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Old 2007-07-23, 16:19   Link #74
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Man, imagine the English dub for this; it's going to get a bit complicated scattered with the Haruhi Suzumiya references to a point the some VAs might need to reprise their roles. Casting Konota is going to be VERY tricky!
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Old 2007-07-23, 16:44   Link #75
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archanfels View Post
Well, here's a better question: What's the Japanese otakus' take on this episode? Are they thrilled to see their beloved Brigate chief / Nagamon again? or are they somewhat annoyed by the excessive amount of otherworldly invasion like some of us (myself included). Because by the end of the day, it's their opinions that matters.
As Wanderingknight said, both. I just skimmed 2channel, and the latest anti- thread there has the subtitle "Haruhi-advertising anime." But the main thread is the fastest-growing thread on the board, even narrowing the gap with #1, StrikerS (241:211).

The last complete main thread (#211) went through 1000 posts in 2.5 hours Monday night. The vast majority of posts were positive, or geeky detail, but there were posts that mentioned over- exposure of KyoAni products or criticized other aspects of the show. Not that many, however. Far more were just delighted with the Haruhi/Yuki stuff.

This contrasts strongly with the situation just after the show came out in April. For a controversial anime, anti- threads often run at about ten percent of the number of posts of normal threads. For LS, the percentage was much higher to begin with, and is now well below ten percent.

I think the Haruhi stuff in the anime is ringing cash registers all over Japan, not just for LS, but for Haruhi, too, so I don't expect it to go away. Even a Japanese bookstore in North America I was in had a big display of Haruhi novels. And Hirano Aya's push for cross-over stardom is bringing the name Suzumiya Haruhi to a general audience right now, on TV and in magazines. I think the authors of Haruhi and LS are both probably just thrilled with the way things are going. Whether it's all entirely in line with their original conceptions or not, it is turning them into writers who make a good living, which is a big deal.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2007-07-23 at 17:19.
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Old 2007-07-23, 17:05   Link #76
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Thumbs down

It seems my points got forgotten in the previous thread, but seriously people, do yourself a favour and time the length of non-Haruhi references versus the Haruhi ones throughout the series thus far. There will be a surprise waiting for you.

To summarise what I have said earlier, the Haruhi references only seem prominent because they are far more recognisable. In this episode alone, we also had To Heart and Code Geass, amongst others. The variety becomes even more varied if we include non-anime references (why yes, they do in fact exist, you know...)

I mean seriously, what are people expecting? A Hayate no Gotuko blaze of incomprehensible bleeps and a mess of censored pixels? Is that what you want? Really? Instead of say, uncensored references and easily recognisable images?

Shuffle!, Karin, Scrapped Princess, Initial D, Code Geass, To Heart, Keroro Gunsou, Kamen Rider, Yugi-Oh, Pokemon, MariMite, Da Capo, Shakugan no Shana, One Piece, Full Metal Alchemist, Rozen Maiden, etc... Must we keep on beating into people's heads that, "HELLO!" Why are you only viewing the show through a filtered lens that can only seem to see Haruhi references?

Crikey...
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Old 2007-07-23, 17:08   Link #77
Xiaolang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I think the Haruhi stuff in the anime is ringing cash registers all over Japan, not just for LS, but for Haruhi, too, so I don't expect it to go away. Even a Japanese bookstore in North America I was in had a big display of Haruhi novels. And Hirano Aya's push for cross-over stardom is bringing the name Suzumiya Haruhi to a general audience right now, on TV and in magazines. I think the authors of Haruhi and LS are both probably just thrilled with the way things are going. Whether it's all entirely in line with their original conceptions or not, it is turning them into writers who make a good living, which is a big deal.
That's capitalism at work once again. Although I would like to see more Aya and Haruhi in the future, I'm a pessimist at heart, and I've seen this promotional push time and time again in the past. The most vivid example of this would be Love Hina. The height of Love Hina's popularity was stratospheric, but came crashing down when they tried to milk it with the craptacular OVAs and sequel.

Will history repeat itself? My 8-ball is pointing to yes. But I pray to God/Haruhi that the momentum keeps on going for longer than my pessimistic speculations.

Back to topic. While you guys were having a big argument, I had a lot of fun with this episode of Lucky Star. The Lucky Star versions of Kyon and Yuki are fun to watch, Akira's "Live" debut was hilarious, Patty Martin may vie for the largest chest in Lucky Star against Miwiki, and Konata's admiration/obsession for Haruhi is both entertaining and scary at the same time. XD

Will rate when subs are out. That is all.
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Old 2007-07-23, 17:27   Link #78
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by Xiaolang View Post
...The height of Love Hina's popularity was stratospheric, but came crashing down when they tried to milk it with the craptacular OVAs and sequel....
I think "craptacular" is the key word. Lucky Star is excellent, and the references to Haruhi have been well done (imo). And as for a second series, there are several popular novels to work with. The only thing I fear is that Yamamoto Yutaka may have had more to do with the success of Haruhi than we realize, and he's gone.

But I'm not a fan of Love Hina anyway, so it's hard for me to make the comparison. I do think it's reasonable for KyoAni to milk a popular product, but they haven't gone overboard yet (imo). That would have been bringing out season two within a year of season one, and they haven't done that. But no franchise lasts forever, and I'm sure Haruhi's popularity will wane sometime. I think it is still growing, however, and is part of Hirano Aya's push for cross-over stardom. People in Japan may be being introduced to non-kid anime by Haruhi as we speak.

note: Chinese subs now available.
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Old 2007-07-23, 17:49   Link #79
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The only thing I fear is that Yamamoto Yutaka may have had more to do with the success of Haruhi than we realize, and he's gone.
Yamakan certainly is a wild card with his directing style. I mean, without Yamamoto, there won't be any more dances, or perhaps no more guitar solos. (He directed and did the storyboard for episode 12 after all)

Also, what does a "Series Production Director" really do anyway? Is it like part-producer, part-director, where he oversees the entire production of the show?

I hope he comes back to Kyoto. Based on the "Making of" the Haruhi CM, he seems to be a very easy-going guy, and seems to make the voice actors very comfortable in doing their job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
note: Chinese subs now available.
Is this for me? If it is, uh, thanks but I don't speak/read the language.
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Old 2007-07-23, 19:15   Link #80
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@Xiaolang: I'm not sure what "series director" means, but I thought it was sort of an assistant for the main director, extending his reach. The Japanese word for "director" there is the same as for episode director, but not as for the main director, so I figured Yamamoto probably helped the episode directors maintain consistency, and spent a lot of time with them, and maybe with the seiyuu.

By the way, Yamamoto is listed as co-storyboarder of episode 18, along with the new director. But I suspect it's just that he started the storyboard before he left. Not sure. The rumor I read was that he had left KyoAni and become independent, so he could show up freelancing with other studios.

The thing about the Chinese subs was for anyone who might happen to benefit. Maybe you, since your nickname seemed Chinese. And also because I sometimes can't help wanting to let people know how fast the Chinese subs come out, as another encouragement to learn Chinese, if anyone's thinking of it, and as encouragement to English fansubbers to speed-sub (my preference).
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