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Old 2007-07-29, 23:31   Link #21
problemedchild
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Nividia 8800 GTS, 320 MB. Look for the eVGA brand.
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Old 2007-07-30, 04:11   Link #22
hobbes_fan
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EVGA, bfg, Asus. I prefer Asus stuff when possible, they're one of the biggest manufacturer of PC parts so you can pretty much rest easy with warranty issues. (I had a Voodoo Labs card circa 02-03 and went bust not long after I bought one of their cards with 1 year left on the warranty). They're all pretty much the same in terms of performance give or take 5fps on benchmarks so it's not too much an issue with performance. Just keep an eye out on which has better cooling solutions, some have better ones so just check reviews. Also the new round of video cards are out shortly so look out for price drops.

I'd also consider ATI HD2900xt, it "seems" to beat the 640mb 8800gts across most preliminary (anandtech and tom's hardware have yet to do a head to head) benchmarks and is a bit cheaper than the 640mb 8800gts. Although it looks to be a bit more power hungry than the 8800gts

But either will do, just a matter of preference.
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Old 2007-07-30, 07:43   Link #23
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2900 tanks so badly when AA is turned on.

Either way, the sweet spot is the 8800 GTS 320MB if you're looking for a Mid-High range video card to game with. But the 1950 XT will do if you're looking at just midranged.

How do you find a 2900 XT cheaper than a 8800 GTS 640 MB? The cheapest 2900 XT I could find was 40 dollars more than a 8800 GTS 640.

Last edited by problemedchild; 2007-07-30 at 07:56.
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Old 2007-07-30, 14:43   Link #24
hobbes_fan
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2900xt 380-450 for 512mb depending on brand/specials
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2900xt&x=0&y=0
Note you're getting a free game which is pretty good with most of these, )

8800gts $360-$440 (i'll exclude the watercooled one at $560)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...pk=8800gts+640

Aus prices
640 mb 8800gts $488 http://staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/sear...?q=8800gts+640
2900xt $480 http://staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=2900xt

Remember these are only preliminary and until more Dx10 games are available it's still too early to call
Tanking with Anti aliasing?
http://news.softpedia.com/news/ATI-H...ks-52015.shtml
In 3DMark06, NVIDIA's card scored higher than ATI's offering, with 10951 3DMarks for 8800GTX and 10356 3DMarks for HD 2900XT. The second round involved a demo of Crysis, in which ATI's card took the lead, by a small advantage. The HD 2900XT scored 81.4fps in 1024x768, and the 8800GTX got 72.5fps, at 1024x768 4xAA and 16X AF ATI got 74.7fps and NVIDIA got 67.2. In the high resolution tests, the advantage was kept by the HD 2900XT, scoring 52.8fps at 1600x1200 4x AA and 16x AF, while 8800GTX got 50.2fps.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7043
The quality settings for the games were as follows:

Call of Duty 2 - Anisotropic filtering, 4xAA (in game), V-Sync off, Shadows enabled, a high number of dynamic lights, soften all smoke edges and an insane amount of corpses.

Company of Heroes - High shader quality, High model quality, Anti-aliasing enabled (in game), Ultra texture quality, high quality shadows, high quality reflections, Post processing On, High building detail, High physics, high tree quality, High terrain detail, Ultra effects fidelity, Ultra effects density, Object scarring enabled and the model detail slider all the way to the right.

F.E.A.R. - 4x FSAA (in game), maximum light details, shadows enabled, maximum shadow details, soft shadows enabled, 16x anisotropic filtering, maximum texture resolution, maximum videos, maximum shader quality.

Half Life 2: Episode 1 - High model detail, high texture detail, high shader detail, reflect all water details, high shadow detail, 4x multi-sample AA (in-game), 16x anisotropic filtering, v-sync disabled, full high-dynamic range.

Pretty much as high as you can crank it.


Still until someone reputable does an in depth head to head all this could be BS.

Edit found one
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...900-games.html
It loses in a couple of games which are nvidia based so no surprise but generally wins overall

Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2007-07-30 at 15:39.
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Old 2007-07-30, 16:00   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
2900 tanks so badly when AA is turned on.

Either way, the sweet spot is the 8800 GTS 320MB if you're looking for a Mid-High range video card to game with. But the 1950 XT will do if you're looking at just midranged.

How do you find a 2900 XT cheaper than a 8800 GTS 640 MB? The cheapest 2900 XT I could find was 40 dollars more than a 8800 GTS 640.
They seems to have fix the AA issue with the last driver
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Old 2007-07-30, 16:04   Link #26
heavensgatekeeper7
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is there much difference between the 320meg and 640meg video cards exspecially the 8800gts which i seem to be leaning towards more if i can still get all the other stuff within the budget.
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Old 2007-07-30, 16:57   Link #27
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If you like to use DailyTech as a source, why not use AnandTech? It does own DailyTech after all.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2988&p=1


@Heaven

The only difference is 320 MB of memory. If you're running at a lower resolution, just stick to a 320 MB version. At higher resolutions however, the extra graphics memory a 640 version has helps it a considerable amount.
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Old 2007-07-30, 21:57   Link #28
hobbes_fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
If you like to use DailyTech as a source, why not use AnandTech? It does own DailyTech after all.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2988&p=1

Missed that. But in the end it says the same thing as xbitlabs - competes with the 640mb 8800gts. It takes a pounding there doesn't it but the xbitlabs review dated days later show a different story. Where most test show it beating the 8800 bar the far more expensive 8800gtx. So I don't know. Usually their reviews are in line with each other.

toms hardware doesn't clear it up either also makes note of some driver issues
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/...ti/page21.html
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Old 2007-07-30, 23:11   Link #29
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Tom's Hardware's review sucked. Barely any games in there.
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Old 2007-07-31, 00:12   Link #30
hobbes_fan
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Still you can't discount the games used. They are the most gfx intensive game around and they do use the industry standard 3dmark series for benches.
what about xbitlabs then? almost every demanding game under the sun? Why is there such a massive difference between anandtech and the others? Only gets taken out in STALKER and 2 other Nvidia driven game engine benches. But we're getting a bit OT. I'll start a thread in a few weeks time when my tax return comes in it's time to upgrade to a dx10 card

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavensgatekeeper7 View Post
thanks for all the help so far guys. The budget is now around 650 dollars and i will probably stick with most of the things that u guys already told me. im thinking about what hobbes_fan said and either getting a better processor or a better video card. hobbes_fan what brand is the 8800gts i really dont know alot about these things and cant seem to find it on newegg.
ok here we go
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103776
x2 4400+ $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131042
Asus M2n $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130082
evga 320mb 8800gts $280
Gskill ddr2 800 $89.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231098
Samsung 500gig HDD $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822152052
Hiper 480w Power Supply $50 (you will definitely need a new PSU, don't skimp on this, PSU is connected to everything)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817128005
Case $28
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811164040
Asus Burner $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827135145

optional extra-if you have a dolby digital reciever with 5.1 speakers get this. It turns all your games, music and movies into dolby digital. Installed mine today, almost crapped myself playing fear hooked up to my yamaha dolby digital system
HT Omega Claro $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829271001

Otherwise use the change to buy some games and go crazy


Only changes are the bigger HDD and and gfx

At this budget I still think AMD s the way to go considering your needs. I mean the core2 duo's are awesome but it's just that a good motherboard for them start around $110 (at least the 1/2 dozen that was recommended to me a few months ago when I did my 2 builds). But don't buy anything past a X2 4400+ from AMD, Once you get to the mid level processors the Intel Core2Duo's just flog everything AMD has

Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2007-07-31 at 01:09.
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Old 2007-07-31, 23:52   Link #31
heavensgatekeeper7
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ok things are looking good so far just waiting on how much i can really spend. As for putting it all together i thought a friend was going to help me since he did his own but for some reason he doesnt want to talk to me. Is it really something a novice can do with out having any major problems like breaking something or frying cause of static electricty.
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Old 2007-08-01, 08:49   Link #32
hobbes_fan
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Static - understand you have to discharge yourself, touch the case or any metal other than the parts before handling them. If you're really paranoid spend 2 dollars on a static wrist wrap. (clip goes to the metal frame of case velcro strap goes around wrist. As much as possible only handle parts by the edges (avoid touching the gold bits).

It's fairly simple really, pcie cards can only go in pcie slots, ram can only go in ram slots. SATA only can go in sata slots. Same with the power connectors for each device. Each kind of male connector can only go in to a specific female connector. All the parts will have detailed instructions the only ones that won't will be the HDD and RAM. Understand that a little bit of force is required but not too much. The hardest thing for me is connecting the led lights and switches only because the jumpers are tiny but hey if you've got a camera take a pic and put em up along with the schematic of the jumper (not every mobo is the same). Along with cable management, you don't want cables going willy nilly you need to keep them tidy.

take your time as well, it took me 2 hrs the first time, it takes me about 45 mins now with all cables tidied up.

But best advice - and its free - go to your library get a recent book on upgrading and repairing PC's. Understand exactly what you're doing so it's a bit more coherent. Particularly important to know is what is what. What does a SATA data cable look like? What does a SATA Power cable look like? WHat does a 6pin power connector look like? What does a 24pin connector look like? What does a 4 pin molex connector look like, once you can identify what is what, you're 90% there.

But there's here, tom's hardware forums, xbitlabs forum anandtech forums that can help with specific issues
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Old 2007-08-01, 13:40   Link #33
arcadeplayer987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavensgatekeeper7 View Post
is there much difference between the 320meg and 640meg video cards exspecially the 8800gts which i seem to be leaning towards more if i can still get all the other stuff within the budget.
320 is up to 1600x1200 resolution, 640 is for 1600x1200 and more
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Old 2007-08-01, 15:29   Link #34
heavensgatekeeper7
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thank u guys for all your help so far i know i keep fluctuating on the budget but i dont know what it will be in the end im waiting for something and depending on how it is then i will be able to give the best estimate on the budget. i have another question its still related to computers i was wondering if any of u have your computer hooked up to your stereo i have a pretty decent setup in my room and have seen other people do it but have no clue on how u go about doing something like that.
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Old 2007-08-01, 17:47   Link #35
hobbes_fan
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ok easy enough but need more info.
1 Are you using your on board sound on your motherboard? Or are you using a different soundcard?
2. Look at the back of your stereo, does it have rca inputs?

IF Y to both you'll need a Y cable, 3.5mm to 2 rca looks like this pretty much available everywher at places like radioshack
http://www.marketworks.com/hi/71/71133/10a3-03106.jpg

the headphone jack (3.5mm) goes into your line out. The Red and White rca jacks go into your stereo usually labelled "Aux In"


There's some other stuff too like Spdif, but you will only see that on new motherboards. If you have a aftermarket soundcard we'll need more info on what outputs there are.

Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2007-08-01 at 19:05.
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Old 2007-08-03, 15:56   Link #36
heavensgatekeeper7
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im using the onboard sound thats on the mother board and yes my stereo has rca inputs its a sony am/fm reciever/amp. i looked up some of these cords but its like 10 bucks for 6 feet and my computer and stereo are about 15-20 apart. Also i might get to spend close to 800 dollars now because my parents are paying for it and they want the computer to last a few years. so im looking to spend a little more then 650 dollars
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Old 2007-08-03, 19:01   Link #37
hobbes_fan
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Unfortunately, there's no other way unless you want to go wireless (which is $$$). Anyways at 20ft you'll hear quite significant sound degradation. It'd probably be neater and cheaper to get a nice set of speakers for your PC and use that as your primary stereo (like I do PC-> Ht Omega -> Dolby digital receiver -> 5.1 speakers), not saying you have to do that but you know, there's plenty of decent 5.1 speakers for $50 or less.

Also bear in mind you will probably have to buy XP or Vista O/S unless you already have a copy of the retail product and not the OEM version(or unless you plan on using Linux) well you don't have to, but piracy is naughty.

IF you don't have to buy an O/S, well intel e6320 and Abit fatal1ty motherboard would be my picks
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Old 2007-08-04, 01:56   Link #38
heavensgatekeeper7
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i guess its a good thing that u guys are helping me because i had completly forgot about an o/s i guess i cant use the windows xp disc that came with the gateway. whats the cheapest i can get windows xp for i will stick with it since i know how it works and not real keen on using vista since its new and probably has some bugs. can some one comprise a list of parts including windows xp that totals about 800 dollars. if vista is around the same price and you guys think its that much better then xp then im willing to give it a shot. u guys have all been really helpful and i really appreciate it not use to getting some much help off of a forum
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Old 2007-08-04, 03:20   Link #39
hobbes_fan
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103776
x2 4400+ $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131042
Asus M2n $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130082
evga 320mb 8800gts $280
Gskill ddr2 800 $89.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231098
WD Caviar 320gig $80.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136074
Hiper 480w Power Supply $50 (you will definitely need a new PSU, don't skimp on this, PSU is connected to everything)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817128005
Case $28
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811164040
Asus Burner $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827135145
vista home premium 32bit $111 (Oem)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116196

or

xp pro 32bit $90 (oem)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116056

around $835 for a vista build without rebates (so lets just assume shipping for the whole lot is $30) there are a couple of rebates there I think but not knoweing if they'll still be around or if you'll order from newegg I've left them out

If that is the pc you're building, I'd suggest Vista. Why? well you won't have driver issues firstly, as everything there will run under vista. Secondly, 8800gts drivers work better on vista (because Direct x 10 runs on vista and not XP at least for the moment). 3 you will eventually have to go anyway to vista. Unless you're running some obscure piece of software or hardware you shouldn't have any issues. 4 I find Vista runs my games better because it utilises dual cores better. (at least I think so)

(Oh PS do you need a wireless card ford internet access or do you use a hardline? budget $30 if you need one). If it needs to be exactly $800 well, I'd go for a 160gig HDD such as this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822144415 and the rebates should take care of the shipping

Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2007-08-04 at 04:48.
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Old 2007-08-04, 12:58   Link #40
heavensgatekeeper7
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thanks so much hobbes_fan u have been such a big help. i guess i will give vista a shot when i go to build this thing. no i do not need a wireless card im using a hard line for my cable internet and the outlet for it is at the far end of the desk. just waiting for the cash and approval of my parents to order all this stuff.
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