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View Poll Results: Lucky Star - Episode 17 Rating
Perfect 10 46 45.10%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 36.27%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 11.76%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 4.90%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.96%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-08-02, 09:24   Link #101
Anh_Minh
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Miyuki's at the top of a very good school. At this point, she could chose any white collar career she pleases. (I'm not saying she couldn't find out she's not suited for it afterward.)


It's not like everyone has a big story on why they chose the path they did, and "doctor" is a famous enough job for people to want to do it.
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Old 2007-08-02, 09:58   Link #102
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Ok, I have to admit I found this episode to be fun to watch. But man why do they keep "plugging" Haruhi so much? Is there any purpose to this? Was the creator a fan or is this part of 'Kyoto Animations' deal to show you the connection between the two that they were invovled with?

I had to laugh at the fact that of 'Konata' doing 'Haruhi' at the cafe. Just listening to her switch back and forth was great and at the same time funny as hell! As VA does both characters anyway. This show has a long list of references. I saw the 'Toranoana' building and 'Gamers'. Of course there's the 'Animate' mascot who's been trying to sell 'Konata' something. Of course I'm missing 'Yui' with her antics. But gawd 'Miyuki' and her mom. Good grief. Nothing like a little 'Lucky Star' before bedtime.
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Last edited by chrno; 2007-08-02 at 10:53.
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Old 2007-08-02, 10:28   Link #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Miyuki's at the top of a very good school. At this point, she could chose any white collar career she pleases. (I'm not saying she couldn't find out she's not suited for it afterward.)


It's not like everyone has a big story on why they chose the path they did, and "doctor" is a famous enough job for people to want to do it.
My objection isn't to that particular choice, but any choice where it raises the question of "why" without the "why" being explained. I only elaborated on medicine to explain my point.

Let's say Miyuki had instead said "I really want to build robotics engineer, so I wrote 'robotics engineer' in all three spaces."

Well, Miyuki is more than qualified to be a robotics engineer, but never struck me as the sort who'd want to design robots, so we're left wondering "Gee, what have we not been told about Miyuki?" or we just assume that since robotics is a stereotypical field for intelligent people, she's just continuing to be a collection of cliches instead of a fleshed-out character.

Why raise the question and then give no explanation, when we then go on to get an explanation of Tsukasa's choices, which demanded no explanation at all?
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Old 2007-08-02, 10:48   Link #104
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I think they had to put something, because Miyuki's the type who'd have thought about it and come up with a definitive answer before the papers were due.

As for "doctor"... I think it fits her caring personality and academic abilities.
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Old 2007-08-02, 10:49   Link #105
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Ooo neat episode. Kagami <3.
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Old 2007-08-02, 11:00   Link #106
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Missed reference opportunity: It would have been nice if the flags of the world that Yutaka has for the party had been the same as the ones that Lupin has in Castle of Cagliostro.
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Old 2007-08-02, 11:53   Link #107
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Originally Posted by chrno View Post
Ok, I have to admit I found this episode to be fun to watch. But man why do they keep "plugging" Haruhi so much? Is there any purpose to this? Was the creator a fan or is this part of 'Kyoto Animations' deal to show you the connection between the two that they were invovled with?

I had to laugh at the fact that of 'Konata' doing 'Haruhi' at the cafe. Just listening to her switch back and forth was great and at the same time funny as hell! As VA does both characters anyway. This show has a long list of references. I saw the 'Toranoana' building and 'Gamers'. Of course there's the 'Animate' mascot who's been trying to sell 'Konata' something. Of course I'm missing 'Yui' with her antics. But gawd 'Miyuki' and her mom. Good grief. Nothing like a little 'Lucky Star' before bedtime.
There is no connection between the creator of Lucky*Star and its manga to Haruhi. There aren't any references to Haruhi in the manga, nor are there appearances by Animate_Tenchou or is there a Lucky*Channel as such. There aren't any Initial_D or Da Capo or much FMP ..... well, you get the idea. People buying the manga looking for those things will feel misled.
Those are all injections by the animation team of KyoAni (whom have the Haruhi franchise). The manga of Lucky*Star reads kind of like Peanuts & Zits with splashes of Monty Python absurdities. Its a charming little story about a group of girls, one of whom is an otaku. Oh, Kona and Nanako do play an MMO that resembles an amalgam of real MMOs. They haven't messed with that.

In many cases, the KyoAni injections work pretty well because Kona is a modern girl geek and she tends to think, act, and immerse herself in the latest in anime. She *would* tend to think of some romance references (Da Capo) at springtime. She does work in a cosplay cafe (though its never shown so far) so dressing as Haruhi might makes sense. She would drag her friends to anime idol concerts. She would quote characters or mimic them in conversation.

So not all the injections are offbase... and a number of the anime-only sequences add to the heart of L*S (the extended temple sequence, the extended beach trip sequence, Kagami's FMP passion, the karaoke box endings, etc). But I think reasonable people would say that the animation staff has in several occasions gone about 30 seconds too far in some of their product reminders - particularly Haruhi and the Tenchou pieces. Lucky*Channel (which mirrors a real world radio show) has intruded substantially on the time budget for the series - it has been very funny but it has had an impact on the time budget left to the main story.

As you can tell, my feelings about the injections are mixed. Kind of... two slices of pie are mmmmmm good, but your host makes you eat five slices, so your tummy hurts and you're wondering about the good sense of your host.

Last edited by Vexx; 2007-08-02 at 12:05.
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Old 2007-08-02, 12:29   Link #108
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Hahaha!! I guess that all makes sense. I have to admit it's really enjoyable.
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Old 2007-08-02, 12:46   Link #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrno View Post
Ok, I have to admit I found this episode to be fun to watch. But man why do they keep "plugging" Haruhi so much? Is there any purpose to this? Was the creator a fan or is this part of 'Kyoto Animations' deal to show you the connection between the two that they were invovled with?
Maybe KyoAni plans on doing Clannad before Haruhi season two and is using this opportunity of giving the Haruhists a bone.
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Old 2007-08-02, 12:53   Link #110
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In Japan, the smart folks go into medicine. It's a highly respected profession and brings pride to the family if your child is a doctor. You get high social status and a good income. Come to think of it, I don't think doctors in the West get nearly the same respect doctors in Japan do. Many older folks still bow when they see a doctor in robes. They are called "sensei" often.

I don't think that's why Miyuki wanted to be a doctor, but it's normal for people getting top grades considering getting into medicine. I think it's a joke since she's afraid of even going to dentists office, and her boke personality surely puts many patients at risk. Hope she becomes something simple like a pediatrician.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
There is no connection between the creator of Lucky*Star and its manga to Haruhi. There aren't any references to Haruhi in the manga, nor are there appearances by Animate_Tenchou or is there a Lucky*Channel as such. There aren't any Initial_D or Da Capo or much FMP ..... well, you get the idea. People buying the manga looking for those things will feel misled.
Well, there is a Lucky Channel in Computiq by the same author. There's a strong link between L*S and L*C; they are all created by the same guy for the purpose of providing light humor and provide advertisements. There are no real link between Haruhi and L*S other than KyoAni, but my guess is the author has very little influence in the committee.

In Japan, anime is created not by the author, but a production committee made up of people who fronted the money. Usually they are the manga/novel publisher and the animation house itself. Sometimes, if the author is well-known and/or powerful, the manga-ka gets to be on the committee and gets approval rights for the scripts. They usually do NOT. My guess is that L*S being such a low-profile manga and Yoshimizu being a young first-time manga-ka, he has very little creative control over the anime scripts. Is looks like KyoAni is doing whatever hell it wants with L*S, in coupled with a LOT of "promotional considerations" for their own and Kadokawa. Yoshimizu gets very little say in the anime, I believe.

However, that doesn't mean they won't listen to him or his opinion won't matter. I have a feeling that the manga-ka knows about these additions and, being an outted otaku in HS, I am fairly certain he's also enjoying all these odd-ball otaku references. I think if he's shocked by anything , its the non-otaku things like the dorama parody or the ED song selections. But then, most otaku would feel unease with a Kimura dorama reference and that's all KyoAni right there. Personally I saw it as brilliant, since there's a huge gulf between the otaku and the mainstream and a little cross-cultural shock therapy is always funny. Vexx-sama, how much of these non-otaku references are in the manga?

I guess that's why I enjoy L*S's cultural references so much since it's hysterical to imagine what would the J-otakus made out of these references. For example, when I wrote EP16's Cultural References, the Japanese blog where I get most of my info from actually did NOT get the reference to Beat Takeshi's Medical Horror Show; he just wrote "talking in the manner of some medical show". It's one of the best rated show in TV, but the otakus live in a different world.

Last edited by AVPlaya; 2007-08-02 at 13:22.
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Old 2007-08-02, 14:35   Link #111
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Quote:
Ok, I have to admit I found this episode to be fun to watch. But man why do they keep "plugging" Haruhi so much? Is there any purpose to this? Was the creator a fan or is this part of 'Kyoto Animations' deal to show you the connection between the two that they were invovled with?

I had to laugh at the fact that of 'Konata' doing 'Haruhi' at the cafe. Just listening to her switch back and forth was great and at the same time funny as hell! As VA does both characters anyway. This show has a long list of references. I saw the 'Toranoana' building and 'Gamers'. Of course there's the 'Animate' mascot who's been trying to sell 'Konata' something. Of course I'm missing 'Yui' with her antics. But gawd 'Miyuki' and her mom. Good grief. Nothing like a little 'Lucky Star' before bedtime.
I think you got the episode number wrong... what you said there describes episode 16, this is episode 17. I think there was only a single Haruhi image in the whole ep, and it was just a small magazine cover.
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Old 2007-08-02, 14:49   Link #112
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I find myself loving every episode of Lucky Star recently, and this one was no exception. I can't believe our little Konata's all grown up.
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Old 2007-08-02, 15:20   Link #113
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
I think you got the episode number wrong... what you said there describes episode 16, this is episode 17. I think there was only a single Haruhi image in the whole ep, and it was just a small magazine cover.
I think that was the cover for 涼宮ハルヒの分裂.
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Old 2007-08-02, 16:20   Link #114
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Originally Posted by AVPlaya View Post
but my guess is the author has very little influence in the committee.
Its not just that --- its because Kyoani are always in full control.
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Old 2007-08-02, 16:20   Link #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVPlaya View Post
In Japan, the smart folks go into medicine. It's a highly respected profession and brings pride to the family if your child is a doctor. You get high social status and a good income. Come to think of it, I don't think doctors in the West get nearly the same respect doctors in Japan do. Many older folks still bow when they see a doctor in robes. They are called "sensei" often.

I don't think that's why Miyuki wanted to be a doctor, but it's normal for people getting top grades considering getting into medicine. I think it's a joke since she's afraid of even going to dentists office, and her boke personality surely puts many patients at risk. Hope she becomes something simple like a pediatrician.
That answers a lot, and it's something I had suspected, but had no evidence for. Thanks! I'd cookie you, but The System says I've done that enough for the time being.

There are some examples of that in the US that I am aware of. In some Korean and Jewish households here, there is the assumption that if you are intelligent enough, you WILL be a doctor. Period. Law school is for wash-outs who have no hope of medical school. Along those lines, doctors get a tremendous amount of respect from such families. A Korean friend of mine has a lot of family and self-confidence issues after he decided medicine wasn't the path for him.
(That isn't to stereotype Korean or Jewish people. It's just that, in the US, I haven't heard of that mindset being in any other social group).

I'd just never had the experience to gain the impression that also happens in Japan. I'd heard of legendary arrogance from many Japanese doctors, but not of the social factors involved in going into medicine. If there is such a social pressure, that means this isn't just Miyuki adhering to a cliche or choosing a profession without proper exposition to explain, but is a very natural choice for her character. I'm happy with the scene now that I'm no longer ignorant of that.

I personally don't think medicine should have that elevated social status. It's just like any other applied science. The reason I didn't go into medicine was after years of hearing about unbelievable stupidity and arrogance in the field from those who had to work it (You'd THINK eight years of rigorous schooling would weed the idiots out, but apparently not...). I'm only now considering going to medical school in the future because I want to be able to practice in the mission field... but this is really off topic, so I'll stop there.

Last edited by Kyuusai; 2007-08-02 at 16:44.
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Old 2007-08-02, 21:37   Link #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVPlaya View Post
In Japan, the smart folks go into medicine. It's a highly respected profession and brings pride to the family if your child is a doctor. You get high social status and a good income. Come to think of it, I don't think doctors in the West get nearly the same respect doctors in Japan do. Many older folks still bow when they see a doctor in robes. They are called "sensei" often.
Just want to know who else is called sensei in Japan?
  1. Medical doctor
  2. Teacher
  3. Member of Diet
  4. Writer
By the way, i've the feeling that whoever is referred to as a sensei is usually highly regarded in the Japanese society.
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Old 2007-08-02, 22:07   Link #117
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Originally Posted by GoldAlchemist View Post
Just want to know who else is called sensei in Japan?
  1. Medical doctor
  2. Teacher
  3. Member of Diet
  4. Writer
By the way, i've the feeling that whoever is referred to as a sensei is usually highly regarded in the Japanese society.
You can call anyone you respect "sensei". The sense of respect is usually due to expertise/knowledge (doctors, teachers, etc) or social status (members of diet, etc). Today the term is usually used when someone is a recognized expert in the field, thus many would call even manga-ka sensei. Strictly speaking, a "sensei" is someone who has something to teach you and you're showing your respect for him/her.

It's a term that came from Chinese Confucianism, where the term meant "Born before". In ancient China, learned people (basically pepole who can read) are highly respected, and those who offer to teach it to the unlearned are called Sensei. The respect for teachers emanate throught out East-Asian society, and this term became a designation of respect for all learned individuals.

Incientally, the kanji for "sensei" means "Mister" in modern mandarin Chinese. Anyone who's a dude is called so and so "sensei". Hence this is an ancient Chinese term, not a modern one. This is a common point of confusion for Chinese learner of Japanese - "why did he just call his female teacher "Mister"?"
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Old 2007-08-02, 22:19   Link #118
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AVPlaya, thanks for the explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVPlaya View Post
Incientally, the kanji for "sensei" means "Mister" in modern mandarin Chinese. Anyone who's a dude is called so and so "sensei". Hence this is an ancient Chinese term, not a modern one. This is a common point of confusion for Chinese learner of Japanese - "why did he just call his female teacher "Mister"?"
It's not really an ancient Chinese one, it's just that many Chinese speakers nowadays think that it's and thus the self-fulfilling prophecy thing...
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Old 2007-08-02, 22:32   Link #119
AVPlaya
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Originally Posted by GoldAlchemist View Post
It's not really an ancient Chinese one, it's just that many Chinese speakers nowadays think that it's and thus the self-fulfilling prophecy thing...
It actually is; dating back to the Warring States era. But that's off-topic... PM me if you want to talk more about it.
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Old 2007-08-03, 05:31   Link #120
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It actually is; dating back to before the Warring States era. But that's off-topic... PM me if you want to talk more about it.
I think i get what you mean now. What i'm trying to say is its continuous usage rather than its origin. Just like what i'm really interested is who else is generally referred to as sensei in Japan these days, something along the line like is a vet a sensei? Tezuka probably won't be called a sensei hundred years ago in Japan.

By the way, speaking of its origin, it's probably in 禮記, though don't quote me for it, but like you say, that's off topic.
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