AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-08-04, 11:22   Link #381
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
"but to me the idea of realizing it as a humanoid child (with its own consciousness on top of that) seems simply retarded."
I don't know if you've read the book 'Animorph'...

A superior being wanted to create the ultimate killing machines. It gave them the best eyes, the best ears, the best claws, the best hind and incredible strength and speed.

But do you know what else it gave them? It didn't give them the mind of a predator, but that of a child. It made them think that killing is a game.
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 11:29   Link #382
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
75 years is 3 generations at most, unless the whole civilization disappeared like Al Hazard what could've happened?
A city in Rome was wiped out over night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Anyway if it's possible to make weapons only operable by very certain people I see NO problem with safety here, no problem at all. It'd be exactly the same as Arc-en-Ciels's magical lock now, just on biological level instead.
You know, this might be exactly what they meant that weapons like that could even be used by a child.
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 11:30   Link #383
Jimmy C
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Ok, Hero, how about this?
Spoiler for Cradle Control System:
Jimmy C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 11:35   Link #384
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
But that would mean Scaglietti would have to brainwash Vivio or force her to cooperate in some other way. Otherwise, she'd tell him to take hike after she took control of the ship.
There's no need for something that troublesome.

Just tell her that she's free to go back to her mamas, but the only thing standing in her way are those mean men trying to hurt her.
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 11:39   Link #385
raidou
Confused person
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Home sweet home :)
Age: 28
Send a message via MSN to raidou
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Spoiler:


75 years is 3 generations at most, unless the whole civilization disappeared like Al Hazard what could've happened? Anyway if it's possible to make weapons only operable by very certain people I see NO problem with safety here, no problem at all. It'd be exactly the same as Arc-en-Ciels's magical lock now, just on biological level instead.
It is not necessarily safe for everyone ...biological lock means anyone with suitable physiology could just operate it at ease or by accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Ok, Hero, how about this?
Spoiler for Cradle Control System:
Spoiler:
__________________
raidou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 11:54   Link #386
An Hero in Disguise
Human
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently - Germany
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
"convenience, lack of unnecessary elements, usually mass production, fail-safety measures etc."

Convenience... Last time I've check, the best and most advanced computers seems out of reach to the common man.
For those who can afford them of course, your argument is invalid. An important part of the system has a self-consciousness of a child = zero convenience here for everybody.

Quote:
Unnecessary elements... You haven't even seen it work yet.
Living humanoid as an important part of the system, duh. I must see how exactly it works indeed. The only excuse would be if the person is the actual commander there, I wonder how it'll work out.

Quote:
Mass production... You want quality, it's going to cost you. That's why it's call 'Hi-tech'.
High cost =/= hi-tech, meh. Unless the required humanoid is meant to be the system's operator having him as a part of the system is counterproductive.

Quote:
fail-safety measures... You haven't even seen it work yet.
I'm afraid something related to the humanoid part of the system is actually going to happen in the series which will screw Doc's plans due to the lack of said measures.

Quote:
Come on, seriously... THat's why they're called hi tech...
That's how the things in some RTS are called hi-tech, not necessarily IRL.

Anyway we need to know more about the purpose of the humanoid part, if it's not the system's operator it could've been realized in a much better way.
An Hero in Disguise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 12:09   Link #387
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
For those who can afford them of course, your argument is invalid. An important part of the system has a self-consciousness of a child = zero convenience here for everybody.
The fact that it only applies to certain people means that it's no convenience at all, which means yes my example counts.

And you forgetting that this is suppose to be a very powerful weapon, it's not meant to be something you can buy in a groccery store.

We have Nuclear weapons, but it's going to be a bitch for most people to get it.

Technology is not always proportional to convenience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Living humanoid as an important part of the system, duh. I must see how exactly it works indeed. The only excuse would be if the person is the actual commander there, I wonder how it'll work out.
Do you look down on living things?

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
High cost =/= hi-tech, meh. Unless the required humanoid is meant to be the system's operator having him as a part of the system is counterproductive.
But high cost usually comes with hi-tech, until it reaches a point where a large majority of the people could afford it then it's no longer considered hi-tech.

Look at the cellphones for example.

How many people could afford it ten, twenty years ago compared to now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
I'm afraid something related to the humanoid part of the system is actually going to happen in the series which will screw Doc's plans due to the lack of said measures.
Mama? well yeah, but that's not exactly the fault of the machine's design.

If the human component was not brought up with the knowlegde of love, then it would indeed be a good weapon.

After all, it was said that a human brain can be far superior than a computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
That's how the things in some RTS are called hi-tech, not necessarily IRL.
Example?
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 12:20   Link #388
An Hero in Disguise
Human
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently - Germany
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I don't know if you've read the book 'Animorph'...

A superior being wanted to create the ultimate killing machines. It gave them the best eyes, the best ears, the best claws, the best hind and incredible strength and speed.

But do you know what else it gave them? It didn't give them the mind of a predator, but that of a child. It made them think that killing is a game.
I don't see benefits in it, were they explained better? And such kind of personality is obviously not fail-safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
A city in Rome was wiped out over night.
Your point? If 75 years ago such people were so common that even a child could get access to WMD (oh lol, I will never ever believe it in my life, those mages they have now are way more dangerous) something really major had to happen to make them extinct.

Quote:
You know, this might be exactly what they meant that weapons like that could even be used by a child.
I don't get it. Assume the levels of protection are the same as AeC but instead of magic-user materializing the key (or how it happened there exactly) we have the final lock recognizing some biological pattern. Unless we remove all layers of protection/permission before the final lock it's just as safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
There's no need for something that troublesome.

Just tell her that she's free to go back to her mamas, but the only thing standing in her way are those mean men trying to hurt her.
The method lacks fail-safety measures, and I'm afraid it'll actually happen like this. Or there'll be brainwashing but it'll fail eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raidou View Post
It is not necessarily safe for everyone ...biological lock means anyone with suitable physiology could just operate it at ease or by accident
Just lol, then any magic-user can operate AeC at ease or by accident. Anyway it could be made so that people with suitable physiology are more rare than any mages (and it actually is so in current case).

Quote:
Spoiler:
Specific, special etc. The technology is bad if it can't be reproduced easily (like TSAB abandoned artificial mage creation or cybernetic augmentations).
An Hero in Disguise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 12:30   Link #389
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
I don't see benefits in it, were they explained better? And such kind of personality is obviously not fail-safe.
It's simple.

You create an animal. It will kill. But it would only kill what it needs and to protect itself.

You create a child. You give him/her a game. Until you stop him/her, that child is going to play to the end of time, or until they're bored of it, but either way it won't be anytime soon.

Need more explaination? An animal would give up if it knows it can't win. A child? If the game is interesting enough, they would get keep going at it until he/she 'wins'.

And by the way? Nothing is truely fail-safe, you should know that. Why do you think people still die?


Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Your point? If 75 years ago such people were so common that even a child could get access to WMD (oh lol, I will never ever believe it in my life, those mages they have now are way more dangerous) something really major had to happen to make them extinct.
Volcano eruption did it by the way.

My point is that it's not hard for an entire race or Civilization to be wiped out that easily, you don't need advance technology for that. Sure there would be survivors, but their numbers would drop drastically.

Also, do not mistake the different between getting access to, and being able to use. Sure a child could use them, but it's not like they could run into it everyday.

There ARE different types of weapons you know, even the WMD types.


Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
I don't get it. Assume the levels of protection are the same as AeC but instead of magic-user materializing the key (or how it happened there exactly) we have the final lock recognizing some biological pattern. Unless we remove all layers of protection/permission before the final lock it's just as safe.
Getting access and being able to use are two different things.
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 12:53   Link #390
An Hero in Disguise
Human
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently - Germany
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
The fact that it only applies to certain people means that it's no convenience at all, which means yes my example counts.

And you forgetting that this is suppose to be a very powerful weapon, it's not meant to be something you can buy in a groccery store.

We have Nuclear weapons, but it's going to be a bitch for most people to get it.

Technology is not always proportional to convenience.
Do we have different views on convenience? Our nuclear weapons are convenient enough for me. Once I have resources I get it, then it's ready to use.

The whole weapon in question would be convenient despite its costs if its humanoid part isn't meant to be produced along with it but was considered by the creators available de facto. We need to wait to learn the details.

Quote:
Do you look down on living things?
Yes, to some extent. They're never fail-safe.

Quote:
But high cost usually comes with hi-tech, until it reaches a point where a large majority of the people could afford it then it's no longer considered hi-tech.

Look at the cellphones for example.

How many people could afford it ten, twenty years ago compared to now?
Why are we discussing this? My points about inconvenience and troubles with mass production were referring to the humanoid+Relic parts, not the costs to create the rest. I started the whole discussion around the ways how it could be explained why a humanoid part was needed in a non-magical weapon by the way, that's where my arguments belong. If it's only an operator (and some kind of physiological check is needed) it's kinda OK, if it's a crucial part for the whole system to be able to function it's not the best choice imho.

Quote:
Mama? well yeah, but that's not exactly the fault of the machine's design.

If the human component was not brought up with the knowlegde of love, then it would indeed be a good weapon.

After all, it was said that a human brain can be far superior than a computer.
It's the fault of the design if it was meant for a living being with self-consciousness to be the crucial part of the system.

If it's a part of the system to be controlled by someone else fail-safety measures should've been implemented to prevent unwanted behavior.

Why only a certain person then? That's the question.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
It's simple.

You create an animal. It will kill. But it would only kill what it needs and to protect itself.

You create a child. You give him/her a game. Until you stop him/her, that child is going to play to the end of time, or until they're bored of it, but either way it won't be anytime soon.

Need more explaination? An animal would give up if it knows it can't win. A child? If the game is interesting enough, they would get keep going at it until he/she 'wins'.

And by the way? Nothing is truely fail-safe, you should know that. Why do you think people still die?
Why do weapons need personalities at all? Also it's sometimes beneficial to understand when you can't win. And if your childs lack emotions other than those connected to said game they're not childs in a common sense. If they don't - those emotions will most probably be a hindrance at some point. BTW we're out of topic here too.

Quote:
Volcano eruption did it by the way.

My point is that it's not hard for an entire race or Civilization to be wiped out that easily, you don't need advance technology for that. Sure there would be survivors, but their numbers would drop drastically.
I got the reference.

It's too convenient and screams "a plot device" if it's really true.

Quote:
Also, do not mistake the different between getting access to, and being able to use. Sure a child could use them, but it's not like they could run into it everyday.

There ARE different types of weapons you know, even the WMD types.

Getting access and being able to use are two different things.
Well, we're going to see a non-magical banned weapon which can't be used by anyone but certain people.

Last edited by An Hero in Disguise; 2007-08-04 at 13:16.
An Hero in Disguise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 13:25   Link #391
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Do we have different views on convenience? Our nuclear weapons are convenient enough for me. Once I have resources I get it, then it's ready to use.

The whole weapon in question would be convenient despite its costs if its humanoid part isn't meant to be produced along with it but was considered by the creators available de facto. We need to wait to learn the details.
You enjoy over-simplifying things.

It is not convenient if you have to spent a huge amount of effort to aquire one item. There are 6 BILLION people on the planet, how many of them can come to purchase one?

Why don't you have the resources? Why don't a large/huge number of people have that resources? Because of all the restrictions you have to overcome. When there's an overwhelming amount of restriction, it is no longer a convenience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Yes, to some extent. They're never fail-safe.
That's a lame reason to dislike something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
It's the fault of the design if it was meant for a living being with self-consciousness to be the crucial part of the system.
You can only considering it as a fault because you look down upon living beings for their failure rate.

If that's the case, do you now freaking get it why such a weapon is banned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
If it's a part of the system to be controlled by someone else fail-safety measures should've been implemented to prevent unwanted behavior.
The component has been compromised, that is all. Sometimes it can't be helped.
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 13:25   Link #392
raidou
Confused person
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Home sweet home :)
Age: 28
Send a message via MSN to raidou
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Just lol, then any magic-user can operate AeC at ease or by accident. Anyway it could be made so that people with suitable physiology are more rare than any mages (and it actually is so in current case).
Hmm actually am referring to something else >< , if you watched Stargate you might know what i mean.

There is this one accident where a guy almost blew up the main character's chopper with an ancient weapon because he has suitable gene and accidentally activate it just by touching/sitting on the chair.It is mind controlled weapon.

Whereas AeC require codes/key activation and such plus a magic user means they have knowledge of magic and trained about it before.A kid with magic potential cant just accidentally touch Asura console and shoot AeC
__________________
raidou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 13:28   Link #393
Jimmy C
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise
Why only a certain person then? That's the question.
I can think of 2 reasons right now.
1. The Relic was designed to bond with 1 person only. The artificial mage is a replica of that person. My commander idea.
2. A specifically designed artificial mage has a way of "spoofing" the relic into thinking it's been fused to its authorised user.

At last, we have an idea of why someone other than the Doctor made Vivio. It would seem he wasn't the only one who thought of fusing a Relic with a person. Or he was, and spread the idea through the underground and waited to see who could make something suitable for him, then he would swoop in to snatch it, the scavenger. In the meantime, he concentrated on his own expertise.
Jimmy C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 13:42   Link #394
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
- Why do weapons need personalities at all?

- Also it's sometimes beneficial to understand when you can't win.

- And if your childs lack emotions other than those connected to said game they're not childs in a common sense.

- If they don't - those emotions will most probably be a hindrance at some point.
- It's not a personality, it's a mentality. The being created them not as soldiers, but a race as a whole.

- Yes, but until then you would do nothing to stop.

- Now you're just desperate, all I've said was that they are childrens who thinks killing is a game. I can't say what they do on their own free time because it was never mentioned. But I have a feeling that their creator just gets them to play.

- He has a near perfect plan. He would immedately kill any of the creature who experience emotions or changes that could compromise the entire race.

They would never grow up and never learn anything other than what he allows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
I got the reference.

It's too convenient and screams "a plot device" if it's really true.
Not everything in life is complicating.

The simplest explaination is usually the right one.
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 13:44   Link #395
An Hero in Disguise
Human
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently - Germany
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by raidou View Post
Hmm actually am referring to something else >< , if you watched Stargate you might know what i mean.

There is this one accident where a guy almost blew up the main character's chopper with an ancient weapon because he has suitable gene and accidentally activate it just by touching/sitting on the chair.It is mind controlled weapon.

Whereas AeC require codes/key activation and such plus a magic user means they have knowledge of magic and trained about it before.A kid with magic potential cant just accidentally touch Athra console and shoot AeC
The same could happen to a similar weapon that can only be activated magically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
You enjoy over-simplifying things.

It is not convenient if you have to spent a huge amount of effort to aquire one item. There are 6 BILLION people on the planet, how many of them can come to purchase one?

Why don't you have the resources? Why don't a large/huge number of people have that resources? Because of all the restrictions you have to overcome. When there's an overwhelming amount of restriction, it is no longer a convenience.
OMG, but it's as convenient as possible, also taking safety measures into account. Having a self-conscious living being as a part of the weapon is not, unless it's the operator himself and his absence won't render the weapon generally non-functional.

Quote:
That's a lame reason to dislike something.
A valid one though.

Quote:
You can only considering it as a fault because you look down upon living beings for their failure rate.

If that's the case, do you now freaking get it why such a weapon is banned?
Yeah, if the weapon is really like I imagine judging from the spoiler I see the reasons to ban it, but I'd rather get rid of its drawbacks if I had full understanding of the technology (though the Relic is involved and their research is also banned, lol; makes me wish Scaglietti success).

Quote:
The component has been compromised, that is all. Sometimes it can't be helped.
BTW there should never be a single super-important component in a complex system on which its entire functionality relies.
An Hero in Disguise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 13:55   Link #396
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
OMG, but it's as convenient as possible, also taking safety measures into account. Having a self-conscious living being as a part of the weapon is not, unless it's the operator himself and his absence won't render the weapon generally non-functional.
But not convenient enough to be available to any tom, dick and harry.

As for the living being, every weapon has it's ups and downs, no weapon is without weakness. It's only a different weakness for different weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
A valid one though.
If you want to believe so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Yeah, if the weapon is really like I imagine judging from the spoiler I see the reasons to ban it, but I'd rather get rid of its drawbacks if I had full understanding of the technology (though the Relic is involved and their research is also banned, lol; makes me wish Scaglietti success).
Sometimes, you can get rid of a part because it is the main point of that weapon.

If what sets this ship apart from the other WMD is that child, then removing that part would just make it no different than all the other weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
BTW there should never be a single super-important component in a complex system on which its entire functionality relies.
Would you rather have two super important component to have to look after?
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 14:26   Link #397
An Hero in Disguise
Human
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently - Germany
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
But not convenient enough to be available to any tom, dick and harry.

As for the living being, every weapon has it's ups and downs, no weapon is without weakness. It's only a different weakness for different weapons.
We're talking about different kinds of inconveniences then.

The weaknesses shall be removed when possible though. This living being thing is a freaking huge inconvenience in my opinion. The weapon's functionality shall be independent from the operator and be as reliable as possible. Wait, TSAB don't like such weapons and ban them too bad.

Quote:
If you want to believe so.
Let's stop at this

Quote:
Sometimes, you can get rid of a part because it is the main point of that weapon.

If what sets this ship apart from the other WMD is that child, then removing that part would just make it no different than all the other weapons.
They'd better explain why is this part such important and can't be replaced by something more reliable.

Quote:
Would you rather have two super important component to have to look after?
I'd rather have 3, so that in case one is overtaken by the enemy it wouldn't be able to cause me trouble.
An Hero in Disguise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 14:53   Link #398
Erio
Hiromi
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Girl who Lost her Tears
This discussion doesnt make much sense, I must say. An Hero stated a very valid point in that why would Scaglietti need to use a HUMAN component in his "ultimate weapon" (he was just wondering why). And not only a human, but a little girl at that.

Whatever the weapon is, the human component IS its weakness, because it is something Scaglietti will surely not be able to fully control (because humans have emotions, blah blah blah), and in the end of the series it will surely be the reason why this weapon will fail, as Vivio wont want to kill Nanoha, for example.

To me, this is just a plot device so Nanoha would go all emo on this "ultimate weapon" and try to save it instead of destroy it. That's one of the reasons why I really dont like Vivio. To me, she seems to be forced into the series, as this human component could have been an old dude no one cared about. But no, it had to be a little girl, and one that befriended the good guys, and even became Nanoha's "daughter".

Anyway, just drop it and wait to see what Scaglietti does with this little girl.
__________________
Erio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 15:08   Link #399
An Hero in Disguise
Human
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently - Germany
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erio View Post
This discussion doesnt make much sense, I must say. An Hero stated a very valid point in that why would Scaglietti need to use a HUMAN component in his "ultimate weapon" (he was just wondering why). And not only a human, but a little girl at that.

Whatever the weapon is, the human component IS its weakness, because it is something Scaglietti will surely not be able to fully control (because humans have emotions, blah blah blah), and in the end of the series it will surely be the reason why this weapon will fail, as Vivio wont want to kill Nanoha, for example.

To me, this is just a plot device so Nanoha would go all emo on this "ultimate weapon" and try to save it instead of destroy it. That's one of the reasons why I really dont like Vivio. To me, she seems to be forced into the series, as this human component could have been an old dude no one cared about. But no, it had to be a little girl, and one that befriended the good guys, and even became Nanoha's "daughter".

Anyway, just drop it and wait to see what Scaglietti does with this little girl.
Agreed, I'll wait until we get more information about Vivio's role. So far the necessity to have some certain physiological trait to make said non-magical weapon functional seems like a valid possibility. It remains unclear why and how Vivio suits this purpose though.
An Hero in Disguise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-04, 15:16   Link #400
raidou
Confused person
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Home sweet home :)
Age: 28
Send a message via MSN to raidou
I wont be surprised if Vivio pull out Guy's Style unison with the ancient weapon looking at the number of references to SRW shown so far....
__________________
raidou is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.