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View Poll Results: Higurashi Kai Episode 5 Rating
Perfect 10 98 69.50%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 14.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 9.93%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 4.96%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.42%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-08-04, 12:21   Link #81
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
One thing I'd like to know is, was Satoko unconcious for a whole 24 hours? Otherwise, the following sequence of events has to occur in less than 6 hours.

Spoiler for events:


I can't see the first happening before morning, so the second can't happen before it does. 3 to 6 could happen in that timeframe, but police would never know there was a murder because nobody would be able to report it before the Disaster.
as you commented on the last part, It was never stated that the police discovered Rika's death BEFORE the disaster. most of the time, the disaster happen withint a very short time after Rika's death. the investigations on the village probably lead them to her corpse.
However, the news pretty much imply that the SDF was on the field during the same night when the disaster occured.
(The presentator mentioned the disaster happened yesterday late at night. since it was still dark when the soldiers were dispatched, there is no way they took more than 6 hours)

@Level E :
Spoiler for Yakusamashi-Minagoroshi, no spoiler, no events:
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Old 2007-08-04, 12:48   Link #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Level E View Post
Spoiler for thoughts about Yakusamashi-hen...:
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-08-04, 13:14   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryptik View Post
Spoiler:
This is mainly the problem that Level E pointed out.
Spoiler for rika's mindset issue for Minagoroshi, because of Yakusamashi. no spoiler event:
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Old 2007-08-04, 13:37   Link #84
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Spoiler for Rika's mideset change due to Yakusamashi-hen, transition to Minagoroshi-hen:
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Old 2007-08-04, 14:04   Link #85
Jimmy C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari
It was never stated that the police discovered Rika's death BEFORE the disaster.
The problem is, there could be NO investigation if her murder was discovered AFTER the disaster. If the SDF discovered her body after the disaster, it would be just one more tragedy to them. Given how locked down the village is after the disaster, no police would be allowed in, nor would the body be allowed out.
No, I feel that Satoko had to have been unconcious a whole day. The perpetrators wanted her body discovered before the disaster. That simply could not have happened between the time Satoko fell and daybreak.
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Old 2007-08-04, 14:10   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
The problem is, there could be NO investigation if her murder was discovered AFTER the disaster. If the SDF discovered her body after the disaster, it would be just one more tragedy to them. Given how locked down the village is after the disaster, no police would be allowed in, nor would the body be allowed out.
That is uncorrect, since Rika's death is noticeably gruesome and extremely different. The lockdown isn't instant, and the SDF has investigated around the area (thus the hat). So, because of the way she died and the time, it is impossible for the SDF to not report her case.

Even if the SDF seems to be really dubious, such case is hardly avoidable, and evidences on the site are clearly not something eraseable
And as logic, her murder must be "before the disaster", otherwise, she should have died because of the gas as well. (the area of such disaster is extremely wide, and should also reach the shrine, which isn't that far away from the village)

So the culprits don't need to expose Rika a day. It is even worse : if they keep waiting, people will be really excited (as being really devoted to oyashiro-sama) as their Miko died, so they will probably go in riots, and maybe some would flee the village. this is NOT something the culprits would like for the extermination. (heck, what would they do, if the police begins to lurk around and investigate anything dubious for a whole day? such thing will hinder the GHD plan)

and since when the bodies wouldn't be allowed to be out? They are supposed to have died in a gas disaster, that doesn't prevent them to evacuate the bodies (why would the SDF come with ambulances and trucks? in many instances, you see them wrapping the corpses and loading them in their trucks)
Quote:
No, I feel that Satoko had to have been unconcious a whole day. The perpetrators wanted her body discovered before the disaster. That simply could not have happened between the time Satoko fell and daybreak.
in many reports, in either animes or game TIPS, rika's death is ALWAYS followed by the disaster. never it has happened a day after, but during the very same night.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2007-08-04 at 14:21.
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Old 2007-08-04, 17:29   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
This was without a doubt the best episode in the second season so far, and one of the most thrilling ones I've seen altogether. I simply love watching more pieces of the puzzle fall into place, though some new questions are also raised.
Those knives the "hitmen" use to carry out the killings seem to be a terribly painful way to dispose of someone, what could the reason be for such a brutal murderweapon. I wonder, I wonder?


Kind of obscure, but I'd wager their style of murder was inspired by the Bertolucci movie The Conformist. (Or Il Conformista)

Check it out:
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GHMm2VzZ2OY
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Old 2007-08-04, 18:13   Link #88
Jimmy C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari
rika's death is ALWAYS followed by the disaster. never it has happened a day after, but during the very same night.
Since Rika died after 12AM, if the disaster happened within 20 hours, it would still be "the very same night" and there would be plenty of time for them to move in, kill everyone, cover their tracks, leave, let the SDF move in before Satoko regained conciousness.

Quote:
and since when the bodies wouldn't be allowed to be out?
Call it a hunch. We speculate that the people behind the disaster have some influence over the government, correct? One way to make sure no one finds out the truth behind the disaster would be to make sure that the bodies can never be autopsied.
Quote:
why would the SDF come with ambulances and trucks? in many instances, you see them wrapping the corpses and loading them in their trucks)
Ambulances are standard for any emergencies. It would look awfully suspicious to the SDF personnel (they aren't all involved in the coverup) if there were NO ambulances with them as they went into Hinamizawa. And just because the bodies are being loaded into trucks doesn't mean they'll be taken to some place where they'll be examined. Maybe they're being sent to the swamp for disposal.
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Old 2007-08-04, 18:39   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Since Rika died after 12AM, if the disaster happened within 20 hours, it would still be "the very same night" and there would be plenty of time for them to move in, kill everyone, cover their tracks, leave, let the SDF move in before Satoko regained conciousness.
That's not correct either, since people don't refer "something past AM" as "morning". saying the same night is pretty much explanatory, and thus, meaning : period of time, which begins after sunset (dusk) and finishes with sunrise (dawn) and not : period of time, before dawn and after dusk in the same day.
you are playing with words here.

and like i said, police would be lurking around.

no seriously, this doesn't make sense as Rika's body was investigated as well. (himatsubushi referrence). a difference of 20-24 hours is so stretch that it is simply impossible.

Quote:
Call it a hunch. We speculate that the people behind the disaster have some influence over the government, correct? One way to make sure no one finds out the truth behind the disaster would be to make sure that the bodies can never be autopsied.
they actually don't need to hide them, if the mean of killing is fitting the description. (as seen in this episode, they probably got gased, considering the various signs on the corpses)
furthmore, disposing the corpses is too reckless, and i would hardly believe Akasaka and Ooishi would forget this point in their investigation. not to mention Sawada.

Quote:
Ambulances are standard for any emergencies. It would look awfully suspicious to the SDF personnel (they aren't all involved in the coverup) if there were NO ambulances with them as they went into Hinamizawa. And just because the bodies are being loaded into trucks doesn't mean they'll be taken to some place where they'll be examined. Maybe they're being sent to the swamp for disposal.
That doesn't make sense since the complete list of deceased and missing persons is shown. SDF is most likely not responsible of autopsy either, so how they would report without confirmation of institute about status of each corpse?

Last edited by Klashikari; 2007-08-04 at 19:01.
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Old 2007-08-04, 19:38   Link #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exilon View Post
Wow.

That's the only word I have for this episode.

I was surprised. This was the first time I watched Higurashi late at night with all lights off. I can say it was creepy. Satoko's legs were thin as heck again! :3

Spoiler:
Spoiler for Are spoiler tags still necessary at this point?:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishikawa Minoru View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


I'm still thinking that by the time the final arc rolls around, Rika will have to smarten up her friends and get them to help her, and all of them, survive. She will not be able to do this on her own.
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Old 2007-08-04, 19:53   Link #91
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How come everyone who falls down in the river below the bridge survives?

Keiichi survived, and now Satoko?
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Old 2007-08-04, 19:56   Link #92
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If I remember correctly, the Hinamizawa residents were gassed using poisons that were identical to those that might appear in an actual gas leak. So autopsies don't matter. Also, when a mass of people die, you don't leave them around- you move them from the spot that they died in. I'd imagine that they'd be pilled up for a mass cremation or something like that.

A lot of people said that the guys in the grey used combat knives. Those looked like regular switch blades to me. I don't know what they used in Japan at that time, but normally combat knives are meant to kill a person quickly. The knives I saw looked like the kind that would make a person bleed to death, which could take anywhere between a few minutes to an hour. But there's no clear image of them, and a murder weapon is still a murder weapon.

Cheezy: If you don't fall in an incorrect manner into deep water, you won't be mortally wounded even if it's from 3 stories up. Of course, your physical condition also matters. And then by sheer luck, Satoko managed to wind up on some rocks. I'd be most worried about her freezy to death at night after getting her clothes wet.
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Old 2007-08-04, 20:35   Link #93
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
This is mainly the problem that Level E pointed out.
Spoiler for rika's mindset issue for Minagoroshi, because of Yakusamashi. no spoiler event:
Spoiler for rika's mindset issue for Minagoroshi, because of Yakusamashi. no spoiler event:


Leason of this chapter : you can't do everything alone.
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Higurashi: Its a bit like watching a trainwreck, except you keep getting to see different trains wrecking with roughly the same passengers, into a variety of different objects. Also, the trains are driven by monkeys. On LSD.
click to play

Last edited by kagato3; 2007-08-04 at 20:52.
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Old 2007-08-04, 20:39   Link #94
Matrim
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First, let's start with the already cliched statement that I thought the episode was great. The nurse was creepy, Ooishi's outburst when he grabbed Satoko freaked me quite a lot, something that surprised me since you know, on paper there have been some scarier scenes in Higurashi which have not affected me much.

As already discussed, I was mostly baffled by the pile of bodies in the school.

I wonder why the bad guys with the hats/unknown perpetrators in other acts always kill Rika in the same place. If they are going to gas the village anyway, what does it matter where the body is found? Or maybe someone else gases the village after the body is found and by killing her there they fullfil the condition that leads to the extermination?
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Old 2007-08-04, 21:42   Link #95
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I think we're not looking enough at the issue of why people would want to gas or otherwise destroy a small village, anyway. That's not standard mercenary work, and somebody here is looking at the big picture, not focusing on individuals so much as we are (excepting Rika).

Spoiler:
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Old 2007-08-04, 22:28   Link #96
kj1980
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Well, I'd guess I'll lead the theory into the right direction, within the confines of what is given up to this episode:



What are the MIGs doing when they are killing Rika at the shrine?
Refer to the story of Watanagashi. Remember? The story about "wata" being a homonym for "intestines" and you have your clue right there.


Why carry out Rika's murder at the shrine and not somewhere else?
What's the shrine's name?


What is the purpose of the mass death?
Refer to the idea that Rika is the supposed reincarnation of the Oyashiro-sama. What was the theoretical outcome if the villagers found out about Rika's death? What arcs proved that theory to be false? Connect the dots and one can deduce the culprit's intent....


Is the Great Hinamizawa Disaster for real?
Let's see
  • So called "curse" where one person always dies and one person always disappears
  • The weird broken down plant from Nekogoroshi-hen
  • Tomitake's mysterious death
  • Takano's body being burnt to point of needing to rely on dental records
  • Dr. Irie's suicide
  • Rika being murdered by some well-trained men
  • 2,000 people of Hinamizawa killed by natural gas
  • The scientific futility of covering up ground zero with cement
  • Taking over 20+ years for the restricition of travel to Hinamizawa to be lifted


What's the deal with the missing 20 people including Rena?
Some people are sharper at detecting things than others. You've all seen Rena's amazing detective skills and reading people's behaviors, right?


Who is behind the MIGs?
Hmm let's see...night vision goggles in the early 1980s, combat knives, silencers, military coordination skills and training. Definitely not your normal run-of-the-mill yakuzas.

Last edited by kj1980; 2007-08-04 at 22:52.
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Old 2007-08-04, 22:50   Link #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980 View Post
What's the deal with the missing 20 people including Rena?
Some people are sharper at detecting things than others. You've all seen Rena's amazing detective skills and reading people's behaviors, right?
Sadly, we never got to see much of that outside of Watanagashi-hen, did we? Or did I miss some points of that in the other arcs?
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Old 2007-08-04, 23:00   Link #98
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryptik View Post
Sadly, we never got to see much of that outside of Watanagashi-hen, did we? Or did I miss some points of that in the other arcs?
Onikakushi-hen
Easily saw through Kei's lie being with Oishi (lesson learned: never lie to Rena)

Watanagashi-hen/Meakashi-hen
Figuring out Rika and Satoko's disappearance from their residence to the Sonozaki residence

Tatarigoroshi-hen
Caught on what Satoko had to endure from Teppei (I don't think this was animated, but it was in the manga)

Tsumihoroboshi-hen
Sharpness of Rena of not liking Rina in the first place and figuring out the scam against her father.
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Old 2007-08-05, 01:01   Link #99
Davidj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aortic View Post
This episode makes me want to catalogue every single instance those anonymous conspirators have appeared and analyze the significance.

Here's a rough start, let me know if you can think of any I'm missing..

Himatsubushi
The thugs who've kidnapped the minister's grandson seem to be the earliest (chronologically) incarnation of them.

-Presuming they're not taking their orders directly from the Hinamizawa Families, what motives do the "Disaster" culprits have in keeping the Dam from being constructed?
-Does this imply an allegiance between them and the resistance? What further could this entail?
All you have to do is ask yourself, "What would the consequences have been of the dam finishing construction?" Well, the inhabitants of Hinamazawa would have scattered all over Japan.
Spoiler for Not really a revelation at this point:


Still there are two revelations in this episode:

Revelation 1: We now know how many plumbers there are. There are 19.

Revelation 2: Far more importantly, we now know why Rika says "nipa".

Makes me wish this wasn't the first Rika/Hanyuu afterword I got to hear in a language other than Finnish.
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Old 2007-08-05, 01:36   Link #100
Davidj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
One thing I'd like to know is, was Satoko unconcious for a whole 24 hours? Otherwise, the following sequence of events has to occur in less than 6 hours.

Spoiler for events:


I can't see the first happening before morning, so the second can't happen before it does. 3 to 6 could happen in that timeframe, but police would never know there was a murder because nobody would be able to report it before the Disaster.
There's no way the cops were called in to investigate. If that had happened they would have still been investigating when everyone died. Something about disemboweled little girls just stirs people up. Therefore the sequence of events is

Spoiler for events:
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