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Old 2007-07-29, 14:53   Link #1
Zatoichi8820XX
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Romance in Maria-sama

You know, I don't feel the romance in Maria-sama at all. To me the show is a close bond with sisters (Except Sei). Like to me it doesn't pass for a Shojo-Ai Romance. Just a Shojo or Bishojo story.
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Old 2007-07-29, 16:09   Link #2
m000m000
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It's most certainly does not fit inside the scope of any sort of trope/genre-definition involving the word bishoujo :P.

Just like bishounen is usually coupled with flaming homogays effimate prettyboys, and not characters like Mr. Kurusaki Ichigo or Uzumaki Naruto, bishoujo likewise has nothing to do with shoujo, and is the usual crap you see in places like megami, eroge (anime adaptions), moe series of the season and other similar.
Literally "pretty girl", I guess you could outline it as everything that follows the "How do we make this character as hot, fappalicious and popular as possible" -as its main design formula in anime .

Shoujo refers specifically to a anime whose orgins are manga originally serialized in a shoujo antholgy magazine, like Margaret or Ribbon - magazines that are aimed at girls in their early teens, not horny 20-something anime-nerds .


While Marimite isn't based off a manga, the original root for the novels IIRC are as a short-story in Cobalt Magazine, which is a bi-monthly fiction publication aimed at girls.



But yeah, for all the lurdiculous amount of read-as-you-want subtext in the series, I don't really see any of the girls making that leap. Or rather, I can't really read any of the primary relationships in that manner that'd make it fit in the general context of things,
Also, part of the appeal in Marimite IMO is exactly that most of the girls are very close to each other, but that they don't neccesarely harbor any sort of romantic feelings. Can you find strong affection between the two characters? Most certainly. Kinship? Bonding? Yearning? Yes to all.

Love? Very much - But just not of the romantic variety.


Just a bunch of people with a deeper caring and sometimes far better understanding of each other than what would fit in your usual friendship. Doesn't neccesarely mean there is more to that than that, though.


Or, that is at least how I like to read things in the series. I'm sure some other nefarious fanboy will write a dissecting replay with an opposite viewpoint .



Anyway, there be much affection here between the girls, and with affection comes caring, with caring comes understanding, and with understanding comes (real) 'closeness'.
But also by being close to someone do you make yourself vulnerable to them.
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Old 2007-07-29, 17:22   Link #3
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sorry for the misuse of the terms..but yeah there is closeness. When i first saw the series I thought oh boy a girl on girl action until I sat down and saw rest of the series....Also It's Kurosaki Ichigo.
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Old 2007-07-29, 18:21   Link #4
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Sei's relationship with Shiori is unquestionably shoujo-ai, but it is true that many other relationships in the series are difficult to define. I think of the relationships in Marimite as being primarily based on admiration and affection, but I do think with many of the soeur relationships there is a slight, if not overt, romantic aspect. I think there's an element in Marimite of 'blossoming' sexuality, if you will, and while this isn't blatant in the slightest there is a certain underlying tension, particularly regarding Yumi's feelings towards Sachiko (blushing at the thought of her undressing, getting nervous about the prospect of wearing Sachiko's bra, etc). Yumi may not be clear on what she really feels for Sachiko, but I believe she is very much in love with her, even if it is essentially a chaste kind of romantic love. I also believe this feeling is reciprocated in much the same way by Sachiko. It's very subtle, and it's difficult to define just what many of the characters feel for each other. I think this is part of the beauty of the series; it explores love in many forms, and also the more complex and ambiguous aspects of love.
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Old 2007-07-30, 04:14   Link #5
disney72
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Originally Posted by Sarah89 View Post
Sei's relationship with Shiori is unquestionably shoujo-ai, but it is true that many other relationships in the series are difficult to define. I think of the relationships in Marimite as being primarily based on admiration and affection, but I do think with many of the soeur relationships there is a slight, if not overt, romantic aspect. I think there's an element in Marimite of 'blossoming' sexuality, if you will, and while this isn't blatant in the slightest there is a certain underlying tension, particularly regarding Yumi's feelings towards Sachiko (blushing at the thought of her undressing, getting nervous about the prospect of wearing Sachiko's bra, etc). Yumi may not be clear on what she really feels for Sachiko, but I believe she is very much in love with her, even if it is essentially a chaste kind of romantic love. I also believe this feeling is reciprocated in much the same way by Sachiko. It's very subtle, and it's difficult to define just what many of the characters feel for each other. I think this is part of the beauty of the series; it explores love in many forms, and also the more complex and ambiguous aspects of love.
sachiko feels uber jealous when somebody touches her seour, ex. sei.. and how she reacted when suguru said that she had most fun when shes with yumi, its kinda funny but a sweet way of showing that she likes her petite seour.
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Old 2007-07-30, 07:48   Link #6
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Yumi also shows "uber" defensiveness whenever Other people will get too close to her "onee-sama"

Also in the latest ova there's a lot of subtexts... obviously showing that the creators of the show is purposely driving the poor fans mad with the endless subtexts...

Hopefully the last episode in the latest ova would show some nice developments...
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Old 2007-07-30, 09:02   Link #7
mdauben
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Sei's relationship with Shiori is unquestionably shoujo-ai, but it is true that many other relationships in the series are difficult to define.
All these anime terms are kind of slippery and often ill-defined, but I think of all the sœur relationships as shoujo-ai. I don't think anyone can deny that Yumi loves Sachiko, and Sachiko loves Yumi. Same with all the other sœurs. I would even say that there are romantic overtones to many their relationships, but just no overt sexual aspects to any of them.

On the other hand, I would actually define the Sei/Shiori relationship as yuri, as there was a definite physical attraction between the two of them, even if it was never "consumated". Likewise the feelings between Sei and Shizuka struck me as yuri, although that was never more than a "might have been" relationship.

Quote:
I think there's an element in Marimite of 'blossoming' sexuality, if you will, and while this isn't blatant in the slightest there is a certain underlying tension, particularly regarding Yumi's feelings towards Sachiko
I think this is something that the original writers of the stories deliberatly left vague, so that the reader/viewer could see what they wanted in each relationship. The yuri fans could see a potential for an eventual physical relationship, based on these little hints, while people not interested in that could still see the relationship as purely spiritual ones.
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Old 2007-07-30, 23:50   Link #8
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umm I'm assuming everyones seen up to the end of Haru at least. also VERY mild spoiler for Vol 2 of the manga scatlation version (to the point where i don't think you can even call it a spoiler but just to be safe ). but first, a question...


This seems like the most likely thread to ask this question in (if it's already been answered in another one i apologize, i looked, really i did!). the major hang up i've had with the show has been the the cousin thing. now from what i can get Yoshino and Rei are first cousins as are Sachiko and Suguru. is Japan different from the US because i thought you couldn't legally marry your first cousin??? isn't that over the line into incestville? (if I'm wrong i apologize to anyone who did marry their cousin) it's this reason that i don't see Yoshino and Rei as lovers in anyway. i think they're closer then soeurs because they're already family but i don't see anything sexual about them. now Sachiko and Yumi are a different case. we see multiple times from yumi's perspective how just being in physical contact (holding hands, Sachiko wiping her cheek, etc..) with Sachiko causes her heart to race. this may be a spoiler if you haven't seen the scanlated mangas but Yumi even asks herself if all soeurs are like they are, if the grande soeurs make the petite soeurs hearts race. personally i feel Yumi and Sachiko don't just love each other, they're in love with each other, but the question then remains whether or not by the end of the series if they figure this out and act on it (which I'm hoping they do ) or if they assume all soeurs feel this way and deny themselves the chance. really, with MAYBE the exception of Rei and Yoshino who like a said are already family to each other, Sachiko and Yumi seem to be alot more dependent on each other then any of the other soeurs. it'll be interesting to see just how the dynamics change when Yumi takes a petite soeur of her own, whether the author will have Yumi as close to and dependent on the younger girl as she is with Sachiko. to me this will make or break the Yumi/Sachiko romance. if Yumi is as drawn to her petite soeur as she is Sachiko then it can be argued that the whole series is just on sisterly love, if however, her relationship with her younger soeur mirrors more the relationships between Eriko and Rei or Youko and Sachiko then there'll definitely be a strong argument towards them having more then sisterly love there. already if you've seen up to the end of Haru you can see that Sachiko needs Yumi more then Youko. now it'll just be a wait to see of Yumi need Sachiko more then she needs her petite soeur.
wow that was a much longer rant then i planed on. >_<;;;;;

~Bug
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Old 2007-07-31, 03:55   Link #9
m000m000
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Originally Posted by WolfNightwind View Post
This seems like the most likely thread to ask this question in (if it's already been answered in another one i apologize, i looked, really i did!). the major hang up i've had with the show has been the the cousin thing. now from what i can get Yoshino and Rei are first cousins as are Sachiko and Suguru. is Japan different from the US because i thought you couldn't legally marry your first cousin???
I'm pretty sure that the cousin marriage ban only applies to a number of states and not the entire country.
Anyway, marriage between cousins is perfectly legal in a large part of world, and while I can't be assed to check, that most likely inlcudes Japan too .
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Old 2007-07-31, 08:36   Link #10
revive4563
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Originally Posted by Zatoichi8820XX View Post
You know, I don't feel the romance in Maria-sama at all. To me the show is a close bond with sisters (Except Sei). Like to me it doesn't pass for a Shojo-Ai Romance. Just a Shojo or Bishojo story.

I think this is the matter of an aesthetics. it might be very easy to write some kiss scenes.
but do you think is it romantic story that merely replaced boy with girl to fill entire scenes with the girls for otaku guys like Strawberry Panic?

Marimite gives a picture of more advanced love.

Last edited by revive4563; 2007-07-31 at 10:15.
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Old 2007-07-31, 10:42   Link #11
mdauben
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the major hang up i've had with the show has been the the cousin thing.
That is actually a pretty common sitation in anime, you see romantic relations between first cousins all the time. The thing is, in most places (including Japan) that's not seen as a problem, either legally or morally. Even in the US I think some states allow it. Just ignore the cousin thing if it bothers you, it does not really mean anything within the context of the story. You could just as well say that Rei and Yoshino are just next door neighboors since childhood, or that Sachiko and Suguru's families are just buisness partners.

Quote:
Sachiko and Yumi seem to be alot more dependent on each other then any of the other soeurs.
I think that the two of them do share and exceptionally storng souer bond, and are something like "soul mates". They both do "need" each other.

Quote:
to me this will make or break the Yumi/Sachiko romance. if Yumi is as drawn to her petite soeur as she is Sachiko then it can be argued that the whole series is just on sisterly love, if however, her relationship with her younger soeur mirrors more the relationships between Eriko and Rei or Youko and Sachiko then there'll definitely be a strong argument towards them having more then sisterly love there.
My guess is that this will never be openly resovled in the series. This leaved it open to interperetation of viewers on both sides of the fence.
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Old 2007-07-31, 12:32   Link #12
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Thanks everyone for clearing up the cousin thing! the show makes more sense now!
~Bug
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Old 2007-07-31, 13:55   Link #13
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I find the recent development regarding Sachiko's potential marriage to Suguru rather interesting in terms of what it could potentially lead to.

Spoiler for sachiko's engagement:
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Old 2007-07-31, 14:54   Link #14
mdauben
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I find the recent development regarding Sachiko's potential marriage to Suguru rather interesting in terms of what it could potentially lead to.
Interesting, I could see benefits to the story, no matter which way things went.
Spoiler for Sachiko and Marriage:
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Old 2007-07-31, 15:35   Link #15
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Originally Posted by WolfNightwind View Post
Sachiko and Yumi are a different case. we see multiple times from yumi's perspective how just being in physical contact (holding hands, Sachiko wiping her cheek, etc..) with Sachiko causes her heart to race. this may be a spoiler if you haven't seen the scanlated mangas but Yumi even asks herself if all soeurs are like they are, if the grande soeurs make the petite soeurs hearts race. personally i feel Yumi and Sachiko don't just love each other, they're in love with each other
I always thought Sachiko's terse responses to Sei's flirtation with Yumi were fairly good evidence that she wanted Yumi to be 'hers' and no one else's- especially when she wiped away Sei's kiss. That kind of jealousy definitely indicates attraction IMO.
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Old 2007-07-31, 20:40   Link #16
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I think this is something that the original writers of the stories deliberatly left vague, so that the reader/viewer could see what they wanted in each relationship. The yuri fans could see a potential for an eventual physical relationship, based on these little hints, while people not interested in that could still see the relationship as purely spiritual ones.
Game, set and match, I mean, I totally agree.

Quote:
Sachiko and Yumi seem to be alot more dependent on each other then any of the other soeurs.
I think this impression comes mainly from the fact that these two get a lot more screen time than the others - judging from the episodes which concentrated on them I'd say that Yoshino and Rei for instance are no less dependent on each other than Sachiko and Yumi.
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Old 2007-07-31, 22:49   Link #17
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I'd say that Yoshino and Rei for instance are no less dependent on each other than Sachiko and Yumi.
I would have to agree with you that Rei is very dependent on Yoshino. The events of the "yellow rose rebellion" show that pretty clearly. I'm not so sure that Yoshino is dependent on Rei, though. She certainly loves Rei, and gets rather jealous of the other girls that are attracted to her, but she seems much a stronger person than Rei (or Yumi or Sachiko, for that matter) and I can imagine her standing on her own two feet better than any of the others.
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Old 2007-08-07, 11:45   Link #18
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^ THAT'S why i like those two. Rei & Yoshino
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Old 2007-08-07, 17:10   Link #19
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I feel that if Suguru had to pick a girl, he would choose Yumi. Either that or he's trying to get closer to Yuuki. And if Yumi had to pick a guy, she would pair up with Suguru because he kind of fits the description of the perfect man she was telling Yuuki in OVA2.

It would be funny if Yuuki goes after Touko because shes almost the opposite of what Yuuki wants from a girl.
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Old 2007-08-08, 16:47   Link #20
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Well I was hoping Yuuki whould go for Yoshino or Shimako
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