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Old 2007-08-07, 17:49   Link #41
Vexx
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oo-de-loli ... murloc battlecries are about my favorite ... its so fun to watch players freak out when they're heard
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Old 2007-08-07, 20:02   Link #42
Westlo
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We will of course get a race of Friendly Murlocs who're trying to rebel against Azhara and have rep to grind with!
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Old 2007-08-08, 02:19   Link #43
xuxtoo
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WoW: Wrath of the Lich King Screenshots!

Spoiler for large images:

Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2007-08-08 at 05:08.
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Old 2007-08-08, 13:58   Link #44
YKE7
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Honestly, some of y'all need to stop whining about what Blizzard is doing with their own game. Its their game and their lore and they can do whatever they want with the storyline. And I personally think a world where the so-called all powerful beings were never touched and all you got to kill were minor bosses and minions would suck.(Everyone's probably going to hate me for this.)



More on topic with the expansion though. I'm personally most looking forward to DKs. So far they sound like they're going to be a lot of fun. That, and the new 1-58 content that blizzard said they were working on both have me really exited.
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Old 2007-08-08, 14:50   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKE7 View Post
Honestly, some of y'all need to stop whining about what Blizzard is doing with their own game. Its their game and their lore and they can do whatever they want with the storyline. And I personally think a world where the so-called all powerful beings were never touched and all you got to kill were minor bosses and minions would suck.(Everyone's probably going to hate me for this.)
So you will have no problem with they begin to... magically turning Trall, Jaina, etc evil? Sending the Titans as almighty bosses? etc?

Look, being the creators of said universe doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. this is basically common sense and coherence.
They have the right to do anything they wish, so why the fans cannot rant about this anyway? True it isn't their own universe, and they can't contribute, but i don't see why it is "whiney", while it is simply stating facts.

It is much like many adaptations and various animes : many utterly fails because lack of incoherence and the like, because things look like "cool". (who said Mai-Hime horrible end?)

As for the facts a world of "killing only grunts would suck", you didn't understand the problem. These characters can die, but under specific conditions. Much like Archimonde, which wisps are required (but it fails somehow, since the Nordrassil wasn't affected). Also, they can create use big bosses (Magtheridon, Teron Gorefiend, etc) as lore and challenge, without screwing the story of warcraft. They can even create bad ass boss (much like Nefarian, which was created only for Wow, but was a very good challenge at that period and excelelnt addition to Deathwing Lore)

They have the possibility, but it is hardly believable that such things can happen like this.

Quote:
More on topic with the expansion though. I'm personally most looking forward to DKs. So far they sound like they're going to be a lot of fun. That, and the new 1-58 content that blizzard said they were working on both have me really exited.
the way to evolve will just be less tedius. changing everything is nearly impossible, considering the amount of "race/class" only questions and the like.
They will probably tune some "exp gain" or difficulty of the mobs, much like what they did pre BC and during BC.
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Old 2007-08-09, 00:18   Link #46
YKE7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
So you will have no problem with they begin to... magically turning Trall, Jaina, etc evil? Sending the Titans as almighty bosses? etc?

Look, being the creators of said universe doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. this is basically common sense and coherence.
They have the right to do anything they wish, so why the fans cannot rant about this anyway? True it isn't their own universe, and they can't contribute, but i don't see why it is "whiney", while it is simply stating facts.

It is much like many adaptations and various animes : many utterly fails because lack of incoherence and the like, because things look like "cool". (who said Mai-Hime horrible end?)

As for the facts a world of "killing only grunts would suck", you didn't understand the problem. These characters can die, but under specific conditions. Much like Archimonde, which wisps are required (but it fails somehow, since the Nordrassil wasn't affected). Also, they can create use big bosses (Magtheridon, Teron Gorefiend, etc) as lore and challenge, without screwing the story of warcraft. They can even create bad ass boss (much like Nefarian, which was created only for Wow, but was a very good challenge at that period and excelelnt addition to Deathwing Lore)

They have the possibility, but it is hardly believable that such things can happen like this.



the way to evolve will just be less tedius. changing everything is nearly impossible, considering the amount of "race/class" only questions and the like.
They will probably tune some "exp gain" or difficulty of the mobs, much like what they did pre BC and during BC.
There I go again, dragging my self into another silly internet argument.

For the record, I'm really bad at debating and whatever the subject, I always make a fool out of my self.

So instead, I'll just say sorry for calling y'all whiny and also that you're free to complain about anything you like.
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Old 2007-08-09, 00:23   Link #47
Demongod86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKE7 View Post
Honestly, some of y'all need to stop whining about what Blizzard is doing with their own game. Its their game and their lore and they can do whatever they want with the storyline. And I personally think a world where the so-called all powerful beings were never touched and all you got to kill were minor bosses and minions would suck.(Everyone's probably going to hate me for this.)



More on topic with the expansion though. I'm personally most looking forward to DKs. So far they sound like they're going to be a lot of fun. That, and the new 1-58 content that blizzard said they were working on both have me really exited.
It is, and it isn't. When you're making something for yourself, who's anyone else to tell you what to do and what not to? However, when you're trying to please an audience, it's as much the audience's world as it is your own. Yes, when you try to please fans too much, you may end up alienating a good bit of them Fukuda style in GSD (though I still loved it due to Lacus fanboyism). However, even more dastardly is to simply blow off the fans.

Also, I WOULD be fine with killing simple "grunts" or "nameless bosses" in WoW. It's a moot point for me personally since I don't pay $15 per month, but from a storyline perspective, a hero isn't so heroic anymore when you can throw enough grunts at the problem and it'll go away. (At the very least, there'll be fewer grunts).

Remember, these are heroes that we PERSONALLY PLAYED THROUGH THEIR RISE TO THEIR CURRENT STATUS, so it should only be fair that we play AS A RIVAL HERO TO SEE THROUGH THEIR ULTIMATE VICTORY, OR ULTIMATE DEMISE.

These were heroes that started from practically nothing, and became champions that slew multiple such rival heroes on their way to where they are now. Arthas killed Mal'Ganis, several paladins (including Uther...how ironic), Sylvanas, and Antonidas (among other "grunt" archmages). Illidan right out of the gate took down Magtheridon, vanquished multiple dreadlords in saving Tyrande, and cut a swathe to his position in the black temple. Even Sylvanas Windrunner recruited a dreadlord, killed two others, and slaughtered Garithos.

We PLAYED these heroes in their rise to power. Why should we now be CAST OUT of our favorite characters and destroy them with some stupid outside weakling force?

In fact, we weren't just PLAYING as Arthas, Thrall, and Illidan...

We WERE Arthas, Thrall, and Illidan. There was no nameless magistrate, cerebrate, or executor that we were playing as in warcraft 3. Our control of the units and hero was simply a concept we had to suspend our disbelief for in order to actually play through the storyline, rather than watch it.

So as a fan, I feel like I've been kicked out of a sort of "home" of mine when the very characters I WAS through the storyline are killed by some stupid nameless adventurer. Instead of BEING Sylvanas and killing Arthas with my own arrow, I am now some silly adventurer WATCHING her do it.

And for some reason, despite being faced down by multiple heroes and an army, the enemy character is just there all alone, despite that Illidan could have gathered all of the bosses out of the Coilfang Reservoir and the Crimson Sigil all around him and then it would have been absolutely GG to everybody that ever tried to kill him.

Frankly, I can't bear the fact that the characters I WAS--the very characters I WAS, not just played as but LIVED THROUGH THE STORY AS, are now killed by stupid random adventurers.

WoW=blizzard SELLING OUT.

I am still praying for a complete retcon of this travesty.
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Old 2007-08-09, 17:16   Link #48
Jazzrat
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After dropping Tidewalker in SSC, i m having daily nightmares of murloc eating my face. Not looking forward to a murloc dungeon!

First of all, you already killed Ragnaros, Neltharion, Onyxia... dragons and old god..... it's no big deal moving onto people like Illidan n Arthas.

Second of all, it's a game, not a novel, not a bible. IP license belongs to Blizzard so they can change whatever they want without almighty George Lucas bearing down their ass like what happen with SWG. You can cry your river of tears but until you or someone bought off the IP, that's all you can do.

And most of all, those 25 people who have beaten Illidan arent exactly the regular joe you saw in Orgrimmar or Ironforge. If anything they are like elite units in WC3 and it still took 25 of em beating on Illidan's ass for a good 15 mins+ with the help of Akama and Maiev before old sore loser finally dies. Illidan n Arthas was a lot easier to kill in WC3.
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Old 2007-08-10, 16:14   Link #49
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Actually, any "hero" like you said is almost unable to solo a dumb instance elite of his own level. it looks quite... weird that the heroes aren't "elite" per se. (no i don't ask players being able to smoke elite instance, but that mention means they are far from being "hero" as powerhouse. Characters in WOW are sure "heroic" in their mission etc, but they don't earn the "legendary power" of heroes per se.

Considering Illidan background, especially the skull of guldan, and Arthas' & Ner'zhul's background, it is really dubious to accept this. Especially Arthas, since Ner'zhul was litteraly able to enslave living beings and the like.

For the sake of gameplay, they cannot be invinsible, but as for the lore, they are way under what they are supposed to be (especially Illidan, who doesn't look being able to maintain his Demonic Form, etc)
Arthas and Illidan both had to rise in power, am I right? What's to say the players of the game can't do the same? They aren't on the same scale, but by obtaining the proper gear and being skilled at the game I truly believe Blizzard wants players to be 'heroes.' With this in mind, a large group of heroes should be able to trump Illidan (albeit with GREAT difficulty, the fight is freakin hard). A 25 man capable of killing Illidan has no trouble with trash mobs, as you implied, yeah they can't solo it, but that shouldn't matter, since there are 25 of them.
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Old 2007-08-11, 00:05   Link #50
Demongod86
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Anyone that subscribes to the belief

"It's their work, they can do what they want"

Just remind me never to watch a show if you produce one, or play a game if you create one.

I don't care if there a million of you and only one Illidan.

Storywise, Illidan and Arthas sacrificed far more than any party member did. They were characters forged in fire, to put it from David Sirlin. What did these adventurers do?

Bashed silly mobs for no reason.

Put it this way: why do you think in just about all anime that named characters only get taken down by other named characters, not some random JoeBob grunts?

Because the viewers would feel cheated.
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Old 2007-08-11, 00:35   Link #51
hooliganj
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It's done for dramatic tension and cinematic effect - plus the authors have the benefit of foresight, and can play up a character who might not otherwise get a name, only they get more attention because eventually they'll take down one of the big guys.

Hollywood tends to write screenplays based purely around what (they think) the viewers want, and most people agree that the result is the worst sort of trash to grace the screen. Movies and shows that people remember tend to be the ones where the author sticks to their personal beliefs and ideas, and manage to surprise or challenge the audience. The best art changes those that view it - to reverse that stance results in the worst consumerism.
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Old 2007-08-11, 08:23   Link #52
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Anyone that subscribes to the belief

"It's their work, they can do what they want"

Just remind me never to watch a show if you produce one, or play a game if you create one.

I don't care if there a million of you and only one Illidan.

Storywise, Illidan and Arthas sacrificed far more than any party member did. They were characters forged in fire, to put it from David Sirlin. What did these adventurers do?

Bashed silly mobs for no reason.

Put it this way: why do you think in just about all anime that named characters only get taken down by other named characters, not some random JoeBob grunts?

Because the viewers would feel cheated.
You are a very stubborn guy, at least on this subject, lol. The characters aren't supposed to be nameless guys, they are supposed to be heroes, as myself and others have said before. How you 'feel' about them dying is also completely irrelevant. I don't have the viewpoint of 'it's their game, they can do what they want,' since I'm a long-time WC fan, but I also think you put the heroes on a pedestal and simply overlook the fact that Blizzard intended, in WoW to allow characters to rise in power much like the heroes of WC3 did. For some people, yes, it's all about the loot, but I'd say most people who know about WC lore and play WoW view it in the same regard as myself.

By the way - even in Warcraft three, one million units would have torn Illidan apart.
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Old 2007-08-11, 08:55   Link #53
parrywrinkle
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If they really wanted to keep lore alive, they should give you a chance to join the other side. Like in the movies when the main character gets to the last boss, the last boss would usually tempt him with an offer (join the Dark Side Luke!). Maybe they could work out some reward system if you could join Arthas. That would be more fun than just killing him.
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Old 2007-08-11, 18:07   Link #54
Ending
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Thus far the story has looked coherent enough for me. Except for one, big mistake: making Illidan the "big" end-boss of the Burning Crusade. From what I can remember from Warcraft 3, he was just a wrongly punished fellow that gained access to power through hard work, so having to kill him for the best loot just reeks wrong to me.

Killing Arthas is okay, though. Malfurion would be a nice target too, since he was a mean git in W3. Could you imprison your brother to a underground prison for 10,000 years?
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Old 2007-08-11, 18:14   Link #55
Klashikari
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Yes indeed, Illidan is really a tragic hero. I was kinda wondering why Malfurion was so angry when Illidan was about to rend Northrend (well Icecrown Crown to be exact) with the skull of gul'dan.

that said, it isn't sure if he wasn't punished for "no good "reason.
basically, to have a digest summary :
-before the war of the ancients, when the kaldorei were evolving, Illidan was already a very knowledge thirsty mage.
-once Azshara begun to go crazy, when she got tainted by the arcane powers and Sargeras offers, Illidan was torn between his love, his brother and his magic thirst.
-Ultimately, Illidan swears allegance to Azshara, and even got a pact with Sargeras. This is the reason why Illidan doesn't have any eye: Sargeras burnt them, and grant him a new vision.
-Illidan finally help his brother, etc.
-At the end of the war of ancients, Illidan made the biggest mistake ever: he kept many vials from the Well of eternity, and created a new one with some vials.
This was the major sin he ever did, and Alextrasza and Nozdormu had to protect it with Nordrassil

it is very digest and not too detailed, but Illidan was really the enemy of world before the events of W3
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Old 2007-08-11, 20:12   Link #56
Demongod86
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The fact is that Illidan, in his belief that magic, when used correctly, could work wonders, WAS CORRECT.

Case in point that the Kal'Dorei or Sin'Dorei or whatever you want to call them (aka the elves of quelthalas) survived for so long and it wasn't until all of Lordaeron was decimated were they finally ground down by attrition. Illidan would simply have created another sunwell, and that sunwell has never ever proven to be malicious.

But frankly, it WOULD be interesting to slaughter Furion, simply for the reason that BECAUSE of Furion's unforgiving nature, hundreds if not THOUSANDS of Night Elves died because he imprisoned the Night Elves' greatest hope and then banished him before the most decisive battle, which he nearly died in as well!

Seriously...what I could have done with a 1500 HP 150 damage spewing Illidan in the last mission of TFT...

Oh, and, Illidan could have saved the world from Arthas had Furion not stupidly decided to interfere.

Illidan was always the one with the vision and the foresight. Furion was a tree-hugging conservative.

It would be fitting for the blood elves to somehow revive Illidan as well =/...he would have looked pretty cool with white skin.
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Old 2007-08-11, 20:35   Link #57
Klashikari
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humm, you aren't too far from the truth indeed.

however, with "IF", you can imagine anything, that's the problem ^^"

Azshara was really a honorable and beautiful ruler among the Kaldorei. unfortunately, she begun to go mad and highly on herself and her highborne cast...
Then, it leads her to her tragedy : her allegiance with Sargeras, the black titan.

Considering how Illidan was going gung ho because of his magic thirst, things might go out of proportions.
But it is very true that Furion lacked of patience and open minded aspect, since arcane wasn't that impure to begin with, though extremely volatile and potent.

Granted, even Furion was easely defiled by the "dragon soul", when he was fleeing with Brox

no one except Chris Metzen can determine really what would happen during this war if Furion trusted Illidan better and the Arcane potency, which could be really a help, but could also be the downfall, if they begin to be addicted, then seducted by sargeras :/

as for the Sunwell... err, it isn't malicious at all, indeed. even the blue flight was trying to protect it. however, the sole presence of it was a bringer of war (who said that drakthan (sp?) bastard? ~~)

too much random factors i guess, mu...
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Old 2007-08-11, 21:37   Link #58
Demongod86
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What's interesting though, is that the missions that the player controls Illidan, those are the ones with the largest fights, and Illidan is usually at the forefront. The entire RoC night elf campaign, other than Illidan's mission, was either buying time or sneaking around for allies.

It really seems that the night elves for some reason ALWAYS get off easy. They never had the entire scourge army bear down upon them, and even against the burning legion they had plenty of help whether indirectly or directly.

It would honestly make my day if Arthas just tore through Ashenvale and made Furion regret ever mistreating his little brother.
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Old 2007-08-11, 23:17   Link #60
Demongod86
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"Well, Arthas is no chump, so you won't be able to defeat him at level 70..."

So Illidan WAS a chump.

F U, blizz. F U.
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