AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-08-12, 01:19   Link #1061
ipernorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
There was alot of problems with Vietnam. For starters, China and Russia were bankrolling the North Vietnamese with Money and weapons against the South Vietnamese. Also, the North Vietnamese were KNOWN for hiding weapons in villages and cities. Because the war was run by the politicians in Congress, the military wasn't allowed to fight the war to the best of it's potential. Eventually, America pulled out of Vietnam and abandoned it's South Vietnamese Allies because of the lack of support for the war, and South Vietnam fell. North Vietnam was the one invading South Vietnam. America sided with South Vietnam(but was hindered by the Politicians controlling every aspect of the war), while Russia and China sided with the invading North Vietnamese. Really simple concepts to understand.
LOL ok US are the knights of justice in the world, but now let's end this fairy tale and off-topic please!

Anyway today episode is entitles "Sortie in the System"... what the hell is this system? I don't think it's Sol System because it was freed already, so perhaps it's the system where Kodomos is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Can we please stay on topic people --- if you want to talk about things like that, then do it in pm.

Now for a question, will we see RAWR YUTI IN ACTION tomorrow?
Who knows... it would be time, don't you think? She received the order to attack Age two episodes ago, and in the last one she was still talking...
ipernorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 08:04   Link #1062
hipeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
After episode 18, it's clear that humans are the second biggest bastard in the universe, with the Goldies being the biggest one

I don't know if Holocaust survivors will want to kill children of Nazi's, but I do know the Silvers clearly won't do anything like that under similar situation. It's "meaningless" to them. And if the Holocaust survivors indeed want to kill children of Nazi's, then indeed from the POV of the whole universe, that makes the humans more bastards than the Silvers. And that's actually Rom Ro's point, humans acting on "emotions" doing senseless dangerous things makes them the bastards that need to be exterminated. From how well the Earth is preserved, we do know neither the Silvers nor the Bronze has done anything like incinerating half of the planet and destroying the whole eco-system even when they deemed it's necessary to exterminate humans and conquered Earth. They only do want they deem necessary, not trying to get senseless revenge, like they never bother to do anything to Titarus even when they showed open defiance, after the Nodoss and humans (the only ones they deem necessary to be destroyed) left. And from what happened so far, I don't think the Silvers would even bother to attack the humans if the Goldies didn't leave humans a Nodoss.

Yes acting on emotions and wanting to kill Nazi's children may make humans... "human", but that's what makes the humans big bastards in Heroic Age's universe, when none of the other races would do such a thing.
__________________
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
hipeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 08:53   Link #1063
ipernorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
I don't know if Holocaust survivors will want to kill children of Nazi's, but I do know the Silvers clearly won't do anything like that under similar situation. It's "meaningless" to them.
I don't remember that the humans attacked first... the Silvers came out of nowhere, along with their bug slaves, and killed billions of people on Earth.

Quote:
And that's actually Rom Ro's point, humans acting on "emotions" doing senseless dangerous things makes them the bastards that need to be exterminated.
Oh it's not like the Silvers are doing very logical things either... attacking the humans they only caused a wound in the universe, cutting it into two factions creating the conditions for an all-out conflict which could determine the destruction of the universe itself. If Age and Yuti will go in mental chaos then sayonara minna-san... very logical choice indeed!

Quote:
From how well the Earth is preserved, we do know neither the Silvers nor the Bronze has done anything like incinerating half of the planet and destroying the
whole eco-system even when they deemed it's necessary to exterminate humans and conquered Earth.
They only exterminated billions of people out of the blue...
You can't judge them as "not evil" only because the Earth is still there: even Taro, in a century or so, will still be there with all its eco-system... there will be bugs too, unlike the humans on Earth.

Quote:
They only do want they deem necessary, not trying to get senseless revenge, like they never bother to do anything to Titarus even when they showed open defiance, after the Nodoss and humans (the only ones they deem necessary to be destroyed) left. And from what happened so far, I don't think the Silvers would even bother to attack the humans if the Goldies didn't leave humans a Nodoss.
Don't twist the facts, please. Silvers didn't destroy Titarros (they initially planned that) because it was a terminal planet and so it was precious, not for comprension to that population.

Quote:
Yes acting on emotions and wanting to kill Nazi's children may make humans... "human", but that's what makes the humans big bastards in Heroic Age's universe, when none of the other races would do such a thing.
The other races have already done the very same thing in fact...
ipernorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 09:28   Link #1064
hipeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
Don't twist the facts, please. Silvers didn't destroy Titarros (they initially planned that) because it was a terminal planet and so it was precious, not for comprension to that population.
You are the one who's twisting the fact here, Silvers send the Bronze to attack just because humans and Nodoss are there, and it's clearly stated that they didn't care about "terminal planets", they just don't bother to do some meaningless thing. It doesn't have anything to do with comprension or whatever, it's just that they don't do things they deem unnecessary.

Quote:
Oh it's not like the Silvers are doing very logical things either... attacking the humans they only caused a wound in the universe, cutting it into two factions creating the conditions for an all-out conflict which could determine the destruction of the universe itself. If Age and Yuti will go in mental chaos then sayonara minna-san... very logical choice indeed!
well, obviously they over-estimated Yuti's power, but following the in-anime logic, they are obviously doing the logical thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
I don't remember that the humans attacked first... the Silvers came out of nowhere, along with their bug slaves, and killed billions of people on Earth.
But it's already clearly stated that they don't have those emotions for revenge and can't even understand human's actions against Earth and Tauron without Promei, as long as we follow what the anime shows, we can be sure they won't even feel the emotion to do revenge under similar situations.

Quote:
They only exterminated billions of people out of the blue...
You can't judge them as "not evil" only because the Earth is still there: even Taro, in a century or so, will still be there with all its eco-system... there will be bugs too, unlike the humans on Earth.
They exterminated the humans as they judged humans as a great danger to the universe from their logical reasoning. It's clearly stated during the opening of ep18, that the Silvers are known to be generally benevolent, bringing prosperity to the universe, by no other than Deionarra herself. The only exception is the human race. Without Age and Deionarra, the humans are clearly going to incinerate the entire Tauron, again following the in-anime logic, it surely looks the Silvers are much nicer to the universe than the humans.

Quote:
The other races have already done the very same thing in fact...
well, what other races have done the same thing? It's quite clearly stated by Promei that humans and the Goldies are the only two races like that.
__________________
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
hipeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 09:32   Link #1065
ipernorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
hipeach I don't care why the Silvers tried the genocide on humans: the crime still remains no matter the reasons. I don't understand why you put the Silvers on a superior level only because they used they so-called logic, while humans are following their istincts and feelings. They're on the same level.
ipernorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 09:43   Link #1066
hipeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
hipeach I don't care why the Silvers tried the genocide on humans: the crime still remains no matter the reasons. I don't understand why you put the Silvers on a superior level only because they used they so-called logic, while humans are following their istincts and feelings. They're on the same level.
Well, it's a "crime" only in terms of humans perception and human emotions. But then even for humans, we also rate logic and rational thinking higher than instincts and feelings, that's why Deionarra and Age stopping the slaughter of non-combatant Bronze on Tauron is portrayed as superior than those who want revenge. Like I said, I'm discussing Heroic Age from an in-anime perspective, sure in real life if my parents are tortured and murdered by someone, I may want to exact revenge on the murderer's children myself, however we are talking about an anime, and it is indeed a "fairy-tale" universe with Deionarra and Age and stuff
__________________
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
hipeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 09:52   Link #1067
grey_moon
Yummy, sweet and unyuu!!!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
hipeach I don't care why the Silvers tried the genocide on humans: the crime still remains no matter the reasons. I don't understand why you put the Silvers on a superior level only because they used they so-called logic, while humans are following their istincts and feelings. They're on the same level.
One of the main problems with your arguments is that they are one sided and are biased towards the humans.

So far what we have been told is that the Silvers have helped a lot of other races and it hasn't been made clear why the Silvers hate the Irons. Also its not really made clear who attacked first... All it takes is one trigger happy scout and you have an interstellar crisis. Not that I am saying I think that happened.

Now the main issues we have is that Irons don't understand the Silvers, they know hardly anything about them. Add this with the fact that the Silvers seemingly give up their emotions. That combined is a recipe for disaster. As a race humans are notorious for their lack of understanding of others even within their own race, now consider dealing with a race which lack what the Irons would consider natural reactions. Ofc this argument could be used the other way, as the Silvers could also have issues dealing with the emotional humans, but how does that explain how the Silvers apparently get on with the other races?

Right now personally I think there is not enough hard facts to judge who is right or wrong, and as I said earlier to me the bad guys do look like the Golds for leaving the universe in such a state.
__________________
grey_moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 10:03   Link #1068
hipeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Right now personally I think there is not enough hard facts to judge who is right or wrong, and as I said earlier to me the bad guys do look like the Golds for leaving the universe in such a state.
And the Goldies apparently intentionally planned all this, which is what both Deinarra and Promei are concluding at. Really, currently it seems the Goldies are the most twisted bastards in Heroic Age's universe
__________________
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
hipeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 10:15   Link #1069
Tiamat's Disciple
Disciple of the Flames
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
sheesh whats going on in this thread. Politics has no place in anim (outside of its context). Comparing anime politics to RL politics is just plain stoopid.

That said, my grand father IS a survivor of the holocaust, and a survivor of a nazi camp, he lost 4 fingers and a foot during his time there. He hates nazis, but he dosent hate their children. You can not blame a child for something he wasnt even born to see.

As for all the other wars going on, what the hell do you expect us to do? If we were to interven in every war going on accross the world we'd be wiped out. I dispise war, ive seen what it can do close up as a volunteer in a few war torn places. However i also understand that reality is never what we want.

Anyways, back onto the show. I gave this u after the 5th episode, i got bored of watching age beating the smeg out of everything easily. I picked it up again recently and was glad to see that he does start to have a hard time of it after a while.

Oh, and does anyone mind if i kidnap Tayle and Mayle, i want to take a shower with them aswell

I'd take Hime aswell, but wiuth such impure thoughts id not get near here ROFLMAO
__________________
Tiamat's Disciple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 11:40   Link #1070
ipernorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Why the other races get on well with the Silver Tribe? Well it's quite simple: if they don't do that they're wiped out, Titarros is a good example of that. They dared to disobey the Silver Tribe and they sent lots of bugs battleships to wipe out the planet.
The Silvers want to destroy the humans because they are the only Tribe who can put up a fight against them (well... let's say so, even if humans ships got owned evrey time...), not to mention that they have a Nodoss.

Anyway regarding the genocide thing: I think it must be avoided at all costs if possible, but if Deianeira has to choose between her Tribe and Silver Tribe then the Silvers can go to hell.
ipernorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 15:39   Link #1071
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
look at all the topic drift



anyway, episode 19 finally explains, why the Silvers want to wipe out the Iron tribe

Spoiler:
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 15:50   Link #1072
ipernorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
look at all the topic drift



anyway, episode 19 finally explains, why the Silvers want to wipe out the Iron tribe

Spoiler:
This has made my day LOL... take this guys who are in mad love with the Silvers!
They're superior, the Iron Tribe are dangerous and other crap like that... the Silvers
Spoiler for episode 19:
ipernorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 18:30   Link #1073
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Spoiler:
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 19:26   Link #1074
hipeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
Why the other races get on well with the Silver Tribe? Well it's quite simple: if they don't do that they're wiped out, Titarros is a good example of that. They dared to disobey the Silver Tribe and they sent lots of bugs battleships to wipe out the planet.
Again you are twisting the facts. The Silvers doesn't care whether the Titarus people disobey them or not, they sent in Bronze for the humans and Nodoss, and once they left, they couldn't care less whether the Titarus people are disobeying them or claim independence or whatever.

Quote:
Anyway regarding the genocide thing: I think it must be avoided at all costs if possible, but if Deianeira has to choose between her Tribe and Silver Tribe then the Silvers can go to hell.
Again you have to keep in mind that this is anime and it's hard to define "genocide crime" in Heroic Age. They are complete aliens to each other. Humans killing hordes of locusts to protect their crops is never considered a genocide crime. And I think it's briefly mentioned that humans, during expansion into the universe, have destroyed many planets native life. So you can say humans have commited many genocide crimes already, albeit for the humans, those indigenous life may be just some bugs to be wiped out. Of course as far as we know, in the anime, the King of genocide crimes is the Hero Tribe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
This has made my day LOL... take this guys who are in mad love with the Silvers!
They're superior, the Iron Tribe are dangerous and other crap like that... the Silvers
Spoiler for episode 19:
LOL you should take those craps yourself Maybe you should re-watch the anime from episode 2 again and actually look at the facts The human nodoss have contracts like beating the crap out of the Bronze and Silver homeworlds, and taking the Goldies power for themselves to rule the whole universe. And as the anime has already stated many times, for any race, seeking prosperity is the most logical thing to do, who don't want the fucking power? so actually taking Goldies power and rule the universe are the logical contracts, but humans have obviously wasted two other contracts with the meaningless "taking the Bronze and Silver homeworlds" because of emotions. Imagine when they arrive at Silver homeworld and find not a single Silver warship, and after landing only found Promei sitting there, saying "Hi, welcome, and bye-bye" and jump right away, now that'd be hilarious

ONLY wanting power does indeed shows that the Silvers are all LOGIC, instead of humans full of emotions for meaningless revenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
Here lots of people sounds like Cagalli from Gundam Seed...
Now you mentioned that, I guess humans lead by Cagalli and Lacus after GSD will quite possibly end up like the Silvers (and I hate them in GSD )
__________________
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"

Last edited by hipeach; 2007-08-12 at 21:08.
hipeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 20:10   Link #1075
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
actually they DO show one kind of emotion: fear and unease

the Iron tribe, and by extension Gold tribe offends them philosophically

the reason why you know who went berserk in this episode is because he is sick of the emotions he is feeling
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 20:40   Link #1076
hipeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
well, Paeto's emotions are forced into him by Deionarra, and like Promei said, maybe it's not possible to truly get rid of all emotions, but the Silvers did try and become as much logic and rational thinking as possible. And so far it seems humans is the only tribe that's being driven by emotions to this extent, the other races do have emotions, but apparently they don't fanatically dwell upon their homeworlds or dish out violence out of emotions as much.

As for the Silvers emotions, they actually do show many emotions as shown by Promei and Yuti, just that those others who supposedly passed their own emotions to Promei show little emotions and seem to be all silent logic. But then they are all just shining white figures with no faces
__________________
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
hipeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 20:48   Link #1077
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Nodos contractors are forced to carry full emotions, actually. They mentioned this is an earlier episode. So Yuti is fully functional, but just really prideful

In this episode Romuro showed something equivalent to bitter confusion. Enough that Promei felt it.
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 21:02   Link #1078
hipeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
well, they are forced to carry emotions, but that doesn't mean they are forced to carry emotions not of themselves. It seems if those Silvers did not pass their emotions to Promei, they'd be as emotional as Yuti and Promei, but still not to the extent as the humans.

I'm sure they are bothered that the humans are like the Goldies. But then the Goldies are the biggest bastard here anyway
__________________
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
hipeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 21:34   Link #1079
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I don't see how they are the biggest bastards

If anything they taught some of their knowledge to at least 4 tribes and saved the galaxy from being destroyed by the Hero race.

And even if a Nodes is used for destruction, it is still the contracted tribe's will that determines how a Nodos should be used

the Golds never said something along the lines of "use these Nodos to wipe each other out and become the sole ruler of cosmos"
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-08-12, 22:30   Link #1080
hipeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
well, it seems that both Promei and Deionarra are coming to the conclusion that the whole galactic war is planned by the Goldies right from the start. Which is quite understandable since they can forsee the future. the Goldies never openly tell the other races to use the nodoss for destruction, but they did know for sure that they'll be used for destruction once given to the other races. they even know beforehand Jupiter's destruction and Deionarra's rise to power. So they fully know the consequences of giving the nodoss to the other races, and they personally raised Age to give him to the humans, knowing the galactic war that follows. From the Silvers meeting before the Jupiter war, it's apparent that without the Goldies meddlings, the Silvers won't find much reason to attack humans from the first place.

Currently the Goldies are definitely protrayed as the biggest bastard who play around with the other races while leaving the universe in a mess. Well, maybe they'll pull a Paul/Leto II Atreides aka. Dune style (who started a jihad killing billions, and then enslaved the whole human race for thousands years, all for the sake of humanity's survival), revealing later that the Goldies manipulated the galactic war for the sake of the races survival and prosperity, but they are definitely the hands behind the whole mess.
__________________
"i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"
hipeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, science fiction

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.