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Old 2007-08-14, 06:59   Link #2281
holyman282
Snape: "I hate Potter!"
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
Right, well, if he wasn't such a jerk, then he would be a bit more considerate towards Misao, who he shared such a past with (as we find out later on), prepared knife or not.
I can't understand why you would call him a jerk just for that..... Just because they shared a past, she was trying to stab him.... Kazuma is not a jerk, he merely acts in the context he was given and considering his background, i think it's pretty justified. Even if that was the case, i still felt that what he did doesn't make him a jerk.

I also noticed you have a avatar of Lelouch from Code Geass, another perfect example of Kazuma like action, i can't understand why you would like him, but find Kazuma to be a jerk. At least be a bit more objective with your views. Seriously, Lelouch is alot worse then Kazuma in terms of your definition of being a "jerk", I would find it a bit hypocritical if you like Lelouch but hate Kazuma.

I for one like both of them.
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Old 2007-08-14, 07:05   Link #2282
ZippyDSM
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Kazuma is not a jerk,hes shrewed and a bit stern,I have more stern and aloof charatcers coming off as 120% jerks.
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Old 2007-08-14, 07:25   Link #2283
Susanou
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I wouldn't call Kazuma a jerk, just abit...stubborn
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Old 2007-08-14, 07:33   Link #2284
Anh_Minh
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He's a jerk, but not to Misao. It may have been awkward, maybe ill-advised, but he was trying to help her.
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Old 2007-08-14, 07:39   Link #2285
ZippyDSM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He's a jerk, but not to Misao. It may have been awkward, maybe ill-advised, but he was trying to help her.
The reason he is shrewed and stren is because of his past but it has helped him see that you can not coddle and protect others from the harshness of life thus why he dose not mince words often.
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Old 2007-08-14, 09:41   Link #2286
lightbringer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyman282 View Post
I can't understand why you would call him a jerk just for that..... Just because they shared a past, she was trying to stab him.... Kazuma is not a jerk, he merely acts in the context he was given and considering his background, i think it's pretty justified. Even if that was the case, i still felt that what he did doesn't make him a jerk.

I also noticed you have a avatar of Lelouch from Code Geass, another perfect example of Kazuma like action, i can't understand why you would like him, but find Kazuma to be a jerk. At least be a bit more objective with your views. Seriously, Lelouch is alot worse then Kazuma in terms of your definition of being a "jerk", I would find it a bit hypocritical if you like Lelouch but hate Kazuma.

I for one like both of them.
^_^;; Please leave Lelouch out of it, heh. My avatar has zero to do with anything (pun intended) and judging my statement based on that, and throwing subjectivity and hypocrisy in my face is an ad hominem attack. Don't do it. Now, there's also no need for me to reply as to whether Lelouch is better or worse, since what you perceived to be my definition here is mistaken... see below.

I'm not saying I don't like Kazuma, because I do, at least on some basic level - this show would fall apart without him. Most importantly, it's not due to Misao that I've labeled him a jerk - looking back, the context from a couple of pages back was "based on watching the rest of the show after the Misao arc". He treats people around him like shit (and other races, too... poor Tiana). He's unreasonably stubborn and stingy.
Spoiler for novels:
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Old 2007-08-14, 21:04   Link #2287
holyman282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
^_^;; Please leave Lelouch out of it, heh. My avatar has zero to do with anything (pun intended)
I don't see why I should leave Lelouch out of it. I'm merely providing external examples to your definition of being a jerk..... I just happen to see your avatar of Lelouch and found it ironic that you would see Lelouch as a hero, while Kazuma as a "jerk".. The fact is both of them have that quality in which you would judge as being a jerk.

Let's compare the two of them shall we?

Spoiler for comparison:


Quote:
subjectivity and hypocrisy in my face is an ad hominem attack.
I don't see how that's an ad hominem attack, as i've given justifiable evidence to support my claims and expanded upon it in this post. Also wouldn't you consider saying that what i said was an ad hominem attack, means that calling me that is a ad hominem attack too?

As for subjectivity, in this instance i am completely subjective, as i stated before that i like both of them. This means that I have no bias towards either Kazuma or Lelouch.

If you are offended by what i said, then i apologise, but you have to understand i said it in a completely subjective context.

Quote:
He treats people around him like shit (and other races, too... poor Tiana). He's unreasonably stubborn and stingy.
You say that, but i haven't seen alot of people around him (that is not his enemy) that he can treat like shit to. Also considering his treatment of Misao is accounted for, we can rule that out.

As for Tiana, well that's justified too. She just came up to him and assumed that just because he is a wind contractor that he would do whatever he's told to do by the fairies. I would get angry at that too.

As for the rest like Ren (Kazuma really cares for Ren, you can see it in many of his actions) or Ayano ( need i say more, he hides behind the facade of doing it for money, but everyone can see that he helps her whenever he can)

Quote:
Spoiler for novels:
I usually would look at the novel and anime separately, but even if you want to compare the novel Kazuma's attitude, that's fine too.

you said that:

Spoiler for novels:


Now let's compare that to Lelouch, who you obviously admire.

Spoiler for comparison:
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Old 2007-08-14, 21:17   Link #2288
Shirozakii
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THAT"S SO SHANA> OMFG. I hate her uniform, wat happed to the traditional lolicon uniforms all japanese school girls wear. HUH? HUH! DAMIT>
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Old 2007-08-14, 21:31   Link #2289
DragoonKain3
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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@holyman
Hehehe, why am I not surprised you like Lulu and Kazuma? Must be the Snape avie, lol.

As for Kazuma being a jerk, well, he's really selfish. Every ounce of his being and every action he does, it only profits himself, be it through him directly or those he likes. I personally admire those kind of characters in the media (Lulu is one of them), since there's not enough of them. I do still consider Lulu to be the 'jerkier' of the two however, since he clearly does not care about how many casualties he causes if the mountain incident is of any indication. He only started to care when one of his friend's parent was one of them; which I do find ironic since in the end he still used that same friend as a bargaining chip lol.

BUT they still don't hold a candle to the Grand Daddy of them all, Ikari Gendo of NGE. Now there was a jerk, and I love his character all the more for it.



But now on topic, I just caught up with the series. And man, am I glad they gave Ayano a change of wardrobe for the fancy dinner and onsen episodes. Boy do they look good on her; she should wear more wear than that stupid uniform, which admittedly I find REALLY ugly.
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Old 2007-08-14, 21:52   Link #2290
Guppy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
Right, well, if he wasn't such a jerk, then he would be a bit more considerate towards Misao, who he shared such a past with (as we find out later on), prepared knife or not.
I don't think it can be said of Kazuma that he had no consideration for Misao, looking at how much he let her get away with afterwards. And what would be the point of going through the motions of being polite, considering what he knew she'd come to do? Sure, Kazuma could have tried to act nicer, but I don't see that it would have made a difference to the outcome.

As for the rest of it... it's quite clear that Kazuma is not really a heroic character - he's a ruthless pragmatist. He and the people he cares about are first in his thoughts, and everyone else barely rates a mention. It's reasonably logical that he'd have adopted such an approach, though, considering his past - it doesn't make him the most likeable of protagonists, but that's what makes Ayano essential to the story.
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Old 2007-08-14, 22:26   Link #2291
lightbringer
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holyman282, you're putting words in my mouth based on nothing more than a profile picture. I don't "obviously" admire Lelouch, and I didn't provide the clear definition of "jerk" that you state I did.

About the ad hominem, I feel that that is indeed what you're doing - look at it like this: you're saying "well, your profile pic is Lelouch, and your title is "Zero Fanboy", so you obviously admire Lelouch, therefore... etc" however whether I like Leouch or not is my personal preference which is completely unrelated to whether Kazuma is a jerk or not. In the same vein, I can say that Lelouch is a calculating bastard (and that would be unrelated to whether I like him or not, too). And thinking that stating that you're committing a personal attack is itself a personal attack is a bit silly in my opinion - I'm attacking your statement, not your person or your preferences, or at least that's what I think I am doing.

On one last note, don't get confused: I like both Kazuma and Lelouch, like I have stated. But neither of those feelings is related to what I was saying. And I feel that both characters, while like Guppy says are not heroic, are in my opinion quite different.

I think we've digressed sufficiently far afield, though. The next episode is almost upon us . So let's drop the topic. At least, I don't feel that there's a need for anything more to be said.
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Old 2007-08-14, 23:31   Link #2292
holyman282
Snape: "I hate Potter!"
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
holyman282, you're putting words in my mouth based on nothing more than a profile picture. I don't "obviously" admire Lelouch, and I didn't provide the clear definition of "jerk" that you state I did.

About the ad hominem, I feel that that is indeed what you're doing - look at it like this: you're saying "well, your profile pic is Lelouch, and your title is "Zero Fanboy", so you obviously admire Lelouch, therefore... etc" however whether I like Leouch or not is my personal preference which is completely unrelated to whether Kazuma is a jerk or not. In the same vein, I can say that Lelouch is a calculating bastard (and that would be unrelated to whether I like him or not, too). And thinking that stating that you're committing a personal attack is itself a personal attack is a bit silly in my opinion - I'm attacking your statement, not your person or your preferences, or at least that's what I think I am doing.

On one last note, don't get confused: I like both Kazuma and Lelouch, like I have stated. But neither of those feelings is related to what I was saying. And I feel that both characters, while like Guppy says are not heroic, are in my opinion quite different.

I think we've digressed sufficiently far afield, though. The next episode is almost upon us . So let's drop the topic. At least, I don't feel that there's a need for anything more to be said.

Agreed, I always get like that when it comes to arguments and get so worked up, let's just say that our disagreement is based off a matter of opinion. Like i said before, i hope i haven't offended you, cause I am merely arguing against your opinion and not you as an individual.

So lets just concentrate on the next ep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
But now on topic, I just caught up with the series. And man, am I glad they gave Ayano a change of wardrobe for the fancy dinner and onsen episodes. Boy do they look good on her; she should wear more wear than that stupid uniform, which admittedly I find REALLY ugly.
I agree, Ayano finally changing her clothing was good. The original reason she probably doesn't change her clothes, might be budget constraints, but later they made it into a running gag. I still remember that one ep
Spoiler for One of the subbed ep, but just in case:
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Old 2007-08-15, 10:27   Link #2293
Honey_and_Cleaver
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I like Kazuma simply because hes a rare type of a badass and a realistic kind of character. Hes strong,independent, sharp and straight in the face kind of guy. He doesnt appear like your typicall central heroic character or a normal pethatic kind of guy, thats why its unusuall, thats why i like him a lot. His past is very reasonable and hes a character where you want to look foward to,like how he approach his girlfriend death. He looks like a bad buy but hes just a guy who just by himself.

I also like his voice, where he isnt the boyish or manly, just in between. Im already fed up of Tomokazu Sugita and Katsuyuki Konishi playing every main seinen characters.
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Old 2007-08-15, 14:16   Link #2294
PaPe
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Ep 19 2chan Link

Reminders:
  • Please don't quote the link
  • Please don't hotlink the images 'cause they'll turn into pr0n
  • I'll delete the link tomorrow

Last edited by PaPe; 2007-08-16 at 14:21. Reason: Deleted the Link
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Old 2007-08-15, 15:29   Link #2295
LKK
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Spoiler for ep 19 screencaps:

Thank you for the screencaps, PaPe.
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Old 2007-08-15, 21:15   Link #2296
FlareKnight
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Spoiler for Ep 19:
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Old 2007-08-15, 22:44   Link #2297
lightbringer
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Spoiler for various:
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Old 2007-08-16, 04:32   Link #2298
Deathkillz
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ep 19 ~
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-08-16, 05:07   Link #2299
Susanou
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Everytime I think this show has the potential for a good episode once it always manages to ruin my hopes in some way

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Old 2007-08-16, 06:38   Link #2300
lightbringer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanou View Post
One thing I'm happy about is that this show has had no recap eps so far, though they may schedule one sooner or later to fill up the episode slot
I know there's been many recaps recently, but the general trend in anime is not to use them ^_^;;; There shouldn't be a need to fill up a time slot though, as we still have one and a half main volumes and several side story volumes to cover.
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