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Old 2007-08-11, 12:15   Link #1061
RoryTate
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You're right, xVxObliVioNxVx, that fourth one is very important. Strange that the "evil" side should take on such significance, but Claymore has spent a fair bit of time to establish Riful and Dauph, while Easley and (current) Priscilla look to get similar treatment next episode. I'm certainly looking forward to a "clash of the titans" as those two forces meet, and I do believe a Riful x Easley battle will occur at some point.

However, I have to ask...how long will this AO war last? As Riful stated, AOs do not naturally fight each other, so I think that any shift in the balance of power will change the nature of this war significantly. As such, I don't see it lasting the entire series. AOs so far seem focused on simply survival and territory, without any loftier goals. However, once Easley's true motivations become clear, this will be easier to judge.

I might term this "The Politics of Power" to give it a broader and more lasting name...for example:

- a strong Claymore organization force appears, and the AOs have to join forces in fighting their more natural enemies
- the rogue/sacrificial Claymores struggle just to survive amidst the chaos of a strong org Claymores vs Easley vs Riful "battle royale"
- a new, strong humanity/rogue Claymore alliance rises, causing the org Claymores and AOs to temporarily join forces, to maintain the "status quo" they are familiar with (this could be a rather interesting turn of events, and really clarify just how "evil" the organization actually is)

There are lots of directions this could take, wherein the AO war is only a precursor to the true struggle for power.

That reminds me...one thing I enjoy is that power in the Claymore world is not necessarily brute strength, or amount of youki. Power is based equally around knowledge (learning the history of male AOs, new understandings of awakening and youki control, etc) and cooperation/teamwork between people/groups.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that Claymore is very intelligent and deep storytelling.
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Old 2007-08-12, 10:11   Link #1062
xVxObliVioNxVx
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Very good point. "The War of the Politics" is a far more fitting for the 4th conflict since, like you said, it gives it a more broader and lasting appeal. And lets not forget the 3rd Dweller of the Deep that lies in the West in which she could further enrich this conflict and push it in many different directions.

And to add to your comment on the Power of Claymores. The thing that interest me so much is the huge variety of skill sets and strengths that makes each Claymore unique in their own rights. For example:

- Priscilla's power lies within her huge amount of Youki power
- Teresa's and Clare's power lies in Youka reading capablities.
- Irene's and Ophelia's power lies in sword techniques.
- Flora's power lies in speed (more so then in sword techniques)
- Undine power lies in brute strength.
- And the list goes on and on.....

And what's more interesting is how these individual skill sets improve as a character gains greater knwoledge and understanding of Yoma powers. Like how Clare was able to improve her flash sword by having a greater understanding of how Yoma flows come out of her body and how she can use those flows to direct a path for her flash swords (I believe that's how she makes it work). Furthermore, the individual skill sets are used quite inteligently in the aspect of teamwork, such as Jeane's, Galatea's, and Clare's teamwork in using their own individual skills as a colleborative effort in defeating Dafu in episode 17.

These individual skill sets and how they are used and developed through out the storyline makes the battles far more sophisticated, instead of being completely mindless.
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Old 2007-08-12, 10:29   Link #1063
Fenrir_valindri
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Quote:
lets not forget the 3rd Dweller of the Deep that lies in the West in which she could further enrich this conflict and push it in many different directions.
The third one is in the south, Riful is the western Abyssal One, hence "Wicked Witch of the West."

Quote:
And to add to your comment on the Power of Claymores. The thing that interest me so much is the huge variety of skill sets and strengths that makes each Claymore unique in their own rights. For example:

- Priscilla's power lies within her huge amount of Youki power
- Teresa's and Clare's power lies in Youka reading capablities.
- Irene's and Ophelia's power lies in sword techniques.
- Flora's power lies in speed (more so then in sword techniques)
- Undine power lies in brute strength.
- And the list goes on and on.....
I would put Miria under speed, and Flora in the same department as Irene and Ophelia, Flora's technique is more based of technique then even Clare's Quick-sword.

You also forgot Yoki supression, Like what Priscilla, and Rafaela have.

Quote:
And what's more interesting is how these individual skill sets improve as a character gains greater knwoledge and understanding of Yoma powers. Like how Clare was able to improve her flash sword by having a greater understanding of how Yoma flows come out of her body and how she can use those flows to direct a path for her flash swords (I believe that's how she makes it work). Furthermore, the individual skill sets are used quite inteligently in the aspect of teamwork, such as Jeane's, Galatea's, and Clare's teamwork in using their own individual skills as a colleborative effort in defeating Dafu in episode 17.
These individual skill sets and how they are used and developed through out the storyline makes the battles far more sophisticated, instead of being completely mindless.[/QUOTE]

I always admired that about Claymore, unlike most shonen, it shows teamwork is important and the characters dont need sudden-powerups as much as they need more training.
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Old 2007-08-12, 19:26   Link #1064
xVxObliVioNxVx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
I would put Miria under speed, and Flora in the same department as Irene and Ophelia, Flora's technique is more based of technique then even Clare's Quick-sword.
Hmmm. I think you are right about Flora. Even though her technique is mainly about speed, it is nevertheless a method that she performs. And I would argue that Miria would fall under the same category. She does not neccessarly specilize in speed. Instead she specilizes in the technique of being able to move quickly for a split second and leave an illusionary after image of herself to confuse her enemy. Like Flora's technique, it is mainly about speed, but nevertheless a method that she performs, although for a 'limited' amount of time.
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Old 2007-08-12, 21:47   Link #1065
Yorae_paladin1
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Originally Posted by RoryTate View Post
You're right, xVxObliVioNxVx, that fourth one is very important. Strange that the "evil" side should take on such significance, but Claymore has spent a fair bit of time to establish Riful and Dauph, while Easley and (current) Priscilla look to get similar treatment next episode. I'm certainly looking forward to a "clash of the titans" as those two forces meet, and I do believe a Riful x Easley battle will occur at some point.

However, I have to ask...how long will this AO war last? As Riful stated, AOs do not naturally fight each other, so I think that any shift in the balance of power will change the nature of this war significantly. As such, I don't see it lasting the entire series. AOs so far seem focused on simply survival and territory, without any loftier goals. However, once Easley's true motivations become clear, this will be easier to judge.

I might term this "The Politics of Power" to give it a broader and more lasting name...for example:

- a strong Claymore organization force appears, and the AOs have to join forces in fighting their more natural enemies
- the rogue/sacrificial Claymores struggle just to survive amidst the chaos of a strong org Claymores vs Easley vs Riful "battle royale"
- a new, strong humanity/rogue Claymore alliance rises, causing the org Claymores and AOs to temporarily join forces, to maintain the "status quo" they are familiar with (this could be a rather interesting turn of events, and really clarify just how "evil" the organization actually is)

There are lots of directions this could take, wherein the AO war is only a precursor to the true struggle for power.

That reminds me...one thing I enjoy is that power in the Claymore world is not necessarily brute strength, or amount of youki. Power is based equally around knowledge (learning the history of male AOs, new understandings of awakening and youki control, etc) and cooperation/teamwork between people/groups.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that Claymore is very intelligent and deep storytelling.
A stronger humanity is something I would like to see. But I imagine humanity won't be very merciful with yomas or anything relatd to them for that matter its gonna get real ugly as in salem witch hunt/spanish inquisition ugly.
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Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising
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Old 2007-08-13, 23:22   Link #1066
RoryTate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xVxObliVioNxVx View Post
And to add to your comment on the Power of Claymores. The thing that interest me so much is the huge variety of skill sets and strengths that makes each Claymore unique in their own rights. For example:

- Priscilla's power lies within her huge amount of Youki power
- Teresa's and Clare's power lies in Youka reading capablities.
- Irene's and Ophelia's power lies in sword techniques.
- Flora's power lies in speed (more so then in sword techniques)
- Undine power lies in brute strength.
- And the list goes on and on.....

And what's more interesting is how these individual skill sets improve as a character gains greater knwoledge and understanding of Yoma powers. Like how Clare was able to improve her flash sword by having a greater understanding of how Yoma flows come out of her body and how she can use those flows to direct a path for her flash swords (I believe that's how she makes it work). Furthermore, the individual skill sets are used quite inteligently in the aspect of teamwork, such as Jeane's, Galatea's, and Clare's teamwork in using their own individual skills as a colleborative effort in defeating Dafu in episode 17.

These individual skill sets and how they are used and developed through out the storyline makes the battles far more sophisticated, instead of being completely mindless.
Indeed, the complex strategies and levels of tactical planning in battle situations is very impressive, and is a result of the variety of strengths (and weaknesses) of each Claymore. Miria often appears to be the focus of this kind of intelligent writing, and I was surprised to see just how much this is so after enjoying an older episode again recently. When her character was first introduced, the most important aspect of her power -- next to her Phantom skill -- was the tagline that her "power approached that of the number one in group battle situations". Wow...

The discussion so far has categorized the range of skills pretty well, but one thing not mentioned yet is the "offensive/defensive" distinction first introduced by Ophelia. For a while I wondered if that was only Ophelia's opinion, but last episode Veronica had the line "For defensive types like us...", so it must be meaningful to the organization (and series) as a whole. I do wonder how big a role this will play in the strategies though, as all of the single digit Claymores appear to have powers that would land them in the "offensive" category. However, there may be more to "defensive" than just regeneration, although that's the only way it's been "fleshed out" (my apologies for the admittedly bad pun) so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1
A stronger humanity is something I would like to see. But I imagine humanity won't be very merciful with yomas or anything relatd to them for that matter its gonna get real ugly as in salem witch hunt/spanish inquisition ugly.
That is certainly true. Yet...hasn't Raki learned to accept and interact with Claymores as very close friends? As such, he holds a special position that could be used as an example to help humanity to overcome their fear and distrust, and form the understanding that Claymores are "half-human" as well.

However, I don't foresee humans suddenly being able to match Claymores/yoma/AOs in total strength. Rather, it could be similar to Clare's powers (she just happens to be 3/4 human...is that coincidence I wonder?). Remember how Clare lost to Miria so badly when Miria didn't use any youki to fight? Yet, soon after that, against an AO with huge amounts of youki, her ability drastically leveled the playing field. I imagine a human with a similar (although slightly varied) youki-affecting ability. Alone, that human would be a sitting duck to the brute strength of any Claymore/yoma/AO, but when paired with a Claymore, they could become a very effective fighting force.

This kind of device would force both groups to have to move past their prejudices and historical distrust, and really set up some interesting story lines as the two came together.
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Old 2007-08-13, 23:56   Link #1067
Yorae_paladin1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoryTate View Post
Indeed, the complex strategies and levels of tactical planning in battle situations is very impressive, and is a result of the variety of strengths (and weaknesses) of each Claymore. Miria often appears to be the focus of this kind of intelligent writing, and I was surprised to see just how much this is so after enjoying an older episode again recently. When her character was first introduced, the most important aspect of her power -- next to her Phantom skill -- was the tagline that her "power approached that of the number one in group battle situations". Wow...

The discussion so far has categorized the range of skills pretty well, but one thing not mentioned yet is the "offensive/defensive" distinction first introduced by Ophelia. For a while I wondered if that was only Ophelia's opinion, but last episode Veronica had the line "For defensive types like us...", so it must be meaningful to the organization (and series) as a whole. I do wonder how big a role this will play in the strategies though, as all of the single digit Claymores appear to have powers that would land them in the "offensive" category. However, there may be more to "defensive" than just regeneration, although that's the only way it's been "fleshed out" (my apologies for the admittedly bad pun) so far.



That is certainly true. Yet...hasn't Raki learned to accept and interact with Claymores as very close friends? As such, he holds a special position that could be used as an example to help humanity to overcome their fear and distrust, and form the understanding that Claymores are "half-human" as well.

However, I don't foresee humans suddenly being able to match Claymores/yoma/AOs in total strength. Rather, it could be similar to Clare's powers (she just happens to be 3/4 human...is that coincidence I wonder?). Remember how Clare lost to Miria so badly when Miria didn't use any youki to fight? Yet, soon after that, against an AO with huge amounts of youki, her ability drastically leveled the playing field. I imagine a human with a similar (although slightly varied) youki-affecting ability. Alone, that human would be a sitting duck to the brute strength of any Claymore/yoma/AO, but when paired with a Claymore, they could become a very effective fighting force.

This kind of device would force both groups to have to move past their prejudices and historical distrust, and really set up some interesting story lines as the two came together.
Spoiler:
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Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising
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Old 2007-08-16, 20:54   Link #1068
Bikerider
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Interesting... Seems a long haired Deneve was one of the attackers of Teresa in Ep 6. Check out when she drops her claymore at 19:50 of the ep. Poor Deneve. She sure gets hacked up a lot. Even when it's not her.
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Old 2007-08-16, 22:30   Link #1069
Aurica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xVxObliVioNxVx View Post
Very good point. "The War of the Politics" is a far more fitting for the 4th conflict since, like you said, it gives it a more broader and lasting appeal. And lets not forget the 3rd Dweller of the Deep that lies in the West in which she could further enrich this conflict and push it in many different directions.

And to add to your comment on the Power of Claymores. The thing that interest me so much is the huge variety of skill sets and strengths that makes each Claymore unique in their own rights. For example:

- Priscilla's power lies within her huge amount of Youki power
- Teresa's and Clare's power lies in Youka reading capablities.
- Irene's and Ophelia's power lies in sword techniques.
- Flora's power lies in speed (more so then in sword techniques)
- Undine power lies in brute strength.
- And the list goes on and on.....

And what's more interesting is how these individual skill sets improve as a character gains greater knwoledge and understanding of Yoma powers. Like how Clare was able to improve her flash sword by having a greater understanding of how Yoma flows come out of her body and how she can use those flows to direct a path for her flash swords (I believe that's how she makes it work). Furthermore, the individual skill sets are used quite inteligently in the aspect of teamwork, such as Jeane's, Galatea's, and Clare's teamwork in using their own individual skills as a colleborative effort in defeating Dafu in episode 17.

These individual skill sets and how they are used and developed through out the storyline makes the battles far more sophisticated, instead of being completely mindless.
Spoiler for All:

Last edited by Aurica; 2007-08-16 at 22:53.
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Old 2007-08-16, 22:40   Link #1070
Zeluch
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Spoiler for Quote:


I didn't know a couple of those characters that you mentioned died. Are you sure it's ok to post that kind of spoiler in the TV Series thread when it hasn't even happened yet? You could have at least wrapped it in a spoiler tag.
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Old 2007-08-16, 22:54   Link #1071
Aurica
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Ahhh... so sorrie.. I fixed it but its too late for you..
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Old 2007-08-16, 23:15   Link #1072
Yorae_paladin1
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Originally Posted by Aurica View Post
Spoiler for All:
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-08-16, 23:43   Link #1073
Aurica
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Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
Spoiler:
I mentioned similarities to a certain degree. I was not aware that it needed to be right or wrong.
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Old 2007-08-17, 17:38   Link #1074
Yorae_paladin1
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Originally Posted by Aurica View Post
I mentioned similarities to a certain degree. I was not aware that it needed to be right or wrong.
Heh sorry just making a point. I wonder is it the claymores fate to one day awaken if she does not die in battle if that is the case talk about a bad deal.
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Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising
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Old 2007-08-19, 08:30   Link #1075
zhoutai753
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Originally Posted by Varis View Post
a live action claymore has to be with CGI, no way around it really, not only because of all the monsters but because of how claymores change their own bodies.

Jeane will be hard to do.


I'm also for Milla Jovovich as Claire. Would be perfect.
wow you serious live drama with CGI claymore drama that would turn out like advent children can't wait.
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Old 2007-08-21, 21:31   Link #1076
niwre-san
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hahaha got bored and decided to make a claymore message board. I dont know if its a good idea. What do you guys think?(Still a wrok in progress and its my first time)

http://claymoreanime.proboards51.com/index.cgi
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Old 2007-08-22, 15:42   Link #1077
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I found this Claymore MAD on Youtube and I have no idea wtf it's about but it had me lmao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owdhJJC8v0A
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Old 2007-08-28, 10:24   Link #1078
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Originally Posted by xVxObliVioNxVx View Post
4. The War of the Awakened Ones
One of the things that's bothered me about this stretch of Claymore episodes is that we have so little information about motivation. Why is there a war among the Abyssals? Riful suggested that, in general, the three of them kept to their own territories and didn't clash. So why has Easley suddenly chosen to go to war?

An even more difficult question is why is the Organization attempting to intervene in the war at all? Wouldn't the Claymores, and even more so the humans, be better off if the Abyssals fight among themselves and kill off a bunch of AOs in the process?

For most of the first half of the series, it seems that the official premise for the Organization, that it creates Claymores to fight youma for profit, is just a front for some deeper, and more sinister, motive. Lately this thread has receded to the background as we concentrate on the Abyssals. I'm hoping we'll see some integration of these two plot threads in the weeks ahead, but I'm a bit worried about whether all this can be resolved in just a few more episodes.

What made Claymore worth watching for me is that it appeared to have a deeper story line than just watching beautiful women fight enormous monsters, as appealing as that may be to some shounen fans. If we don't get a better explanation for why the events we're witnessing are taking place, it's going to lose that allure for me.
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Old 2007-08-28, 15:27   Link #1079
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I'll take a shot at this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
One of the things that's bothered me about this stretch of Claymore episodes is that we have so little information about motivation. Why is there a war among the Abyssals? Riful suggested that, in general, the three of them kept to their own territories and didn't clash. So why has Easley suddenly chosen to go to war?
Why did Alexander head east?
It seems to me that Easley just wants to take over the world, and the organization and the other Abyssals naturally have a problem with this, as it infringes on the organization's ability to make money (Awakened Beings take more manpower and are high-risk jobs, meaning higher prices that most villages might not be able to pay) and the other Abyssals don't need 30 other Awakened Beings horning in on their hunting grounds.

Quote:
An even more difficult question is why is the Organization attempting to intervene in the war at all? Wouldn't the Claymores, and even more so the humans, be better off if the Abyssals fight among themselves and kill off a bunch of AOs in the process?
Preemptive strike, for the reasons stated above. They may have gotten a call from Pieta, or they may be trying to stop the Awakened Beings before their existence (and origins) become common knowledge.
Or, maybe the organization doesn't like the idea of the majority of their clientèle getting eaten.
And the Abyssals are not currently fighting against one another. Riful flew off to who-knows-where, and the other one (forgot her name) hasn't been heard from at all. It appears that they're turning tail for the moment, but that could change.
Quote:
For most of the first half of the series, it seems that the official premise for the Organization, that it creates Claymores to fight youma for profit, is just a front for some deeper, and more sinister, motive. Lately this thread has receded to the background as we concentrate on the Abyssals. I'm hoping we'll see some integration of these two plot threads in the weeks ahead, but I'm a bit worried about whether all this can be resolved in just a few more episodes.
If it's tied in during this last plot arc, it's gonna hit like a freaking truck - which would be awesome.
Quote:
What made Claymore worth watching for me is that it appeared to have a deeper story line than just watching beautiful women fight enormous monsters, as appealing as that may be to some shounen fans. If we don't get a better explanation for why the events we're witnessing are taking place, it's going to lose that allure for me.
Same here. I'm really not that interested in the battles (though some were pretty cool) or who is stronger than whom, but the unique politics of all this is what has me fascinated. And we need more stuff like the cave scene. Moral dilemmas are fun.
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Old 2007-08-29, 08:44   Link #1080
Mirthless
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Whoever said that the organization wanted to stop the war? All those Claymores were sent... to die. We don't know what the organization is up to.
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