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Old 2007-07-31, 15:08   Link #41
SilentKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Even though I think that list is a joke you do realize that it is talking about right now as well as from a commercial point of view? What exactly have Rakim, KRS and Kane done lately? Kool G Rap is past his prime as he got outdone by Young Chris of all people on a track lately.

I also have no idea how you can put that monotone waste of beats Guru on your list and not have Andre 3000 and Scarface. Big Punisher and no Jay-Z? You do realize if he had lived he would've been just as commercial as Jay-Z and I'll still take Reasonable Doubt over Capital Punishment even though both were classics.. no song on RD was as bad as Punish Me...

Ras Kass has been an utter disappointment since his first album, isn't he signed (or trying to be) with G-Unit now? Tonedeff has been up and coming for what the last 6 years?
Rakim is supposed to have a new album coming out soon, or so I've heard. KRS put out some new stuff recently.
True, Rakim, KRS, and Kane haven't really done anything lately, but I'm not talking about lately. I'm talking about their influence on other artists and the respect they've garnered as a whole.

And as I said, the list I threw together isn't completely accurate.

Andre 3000 and Scarface, hate to say, I forgot about them.

Big Pun and no Jay-Z? Jay-Z copies so many lyrics it's not even funny anymore. Yea, he's got flow and all that shit, but copying lyrics from Biggie and all simply just killed it for me.
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Old 2007-07-31, 15:20   Link #42
SilentKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziv View Post
I found this post in another forum and it pretty much sums up my current opinion on rap.


I honestly haven't heard any rap that was of any lyrical depth at all. (and I spent three hours a day on a bus during high school with a driver who insisted on playing hip-hop and rap) I watched the intro to Samurai Champloo and honestly broke out laughing when I heard them use the words "dove" and "tear" together in a rap song.
Samurai Champloo had an awesome soundtrack.

50 Cent is retarded, him and his listeners are caught up in that hunk of mainstream mentality.

One suggestion to get you started off that I stumbled across rather recently would be Sol.iLLaquists of Sound.
http://www.myspace.com/solilla

Other than that, the better rap releases of 2007 Canibus' For Whom The Beat Tolls, Pharoahe Monch's Desire, and Talib Kweli's Eardrum are definitely worth checking out.
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Old 2007-07-31, 17:46   Link #43
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentKnight View Post
Big Pun and no Jay-Z? Jay-Z copies so many lyrics it's not even funny anymore. Yea, he's got flow and all that shit, but copying lyrics from Biggie and all simply just killed it for me.
The Jay-Z bites lyrics thing is so blown out of proportion and I think it's really dumb to knock on someone who has such a massive amount of songs. He's done... what over 500 songs? (probably another 100-200 when you add freestyles) Add all his "bitten" lines together and it would top out @ 2 songs maximum.

His longest "bite" was on his hit single "Give It To Me, I'm a Hustler" from the Dynasty album. He probably had 3-4 lines worth of Biggie on that track. Sounds bad right? Too bad C.Wallace is credited as a writer for that song on the album.

I don't see Nas and Tupac getting slammed for using the same concept as Organized Confusions (Monch and Po) Stray Bullet.

What's worse biting 2 famous lines from Slick Rick on the Blueprint album which Slick Rick is a guest on or using Slick Ricks style completely for a song like Nas did on Stillmatic's Destroy and Rebuild? (Which Cormega completely called him out on in the reply)
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Old 2007-07-31, 18:53   Link #44
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziv View Post
I found this post in another forum and it pretty much sums up my current opinion on rap.


I honestly haven't heard any rap that was of any lyrical depth at all. (and I spent three hours a day on a bus during high school with a driver who insisted on playing hip-hop and rap) I watched the intro to Samurai Champloo and honestly broke out laughing when I heard them use the words "dove" and "tear" together in a rap song.
If you heard someone say anime was all kids stuff and porn what would you think of that person?

Go Google the Ras Kass track "Nature of the Threat" since you seem to think hiphop = 50 cent
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Old 2007-07-31, 19:22   Link #45
SilentKnight
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
The Jay-Z bites lyrics thing is so blown out of proportion and I think it's really dumb to knock on someone who has such a massive amount of songs. He's done... what over 500 songs? (probably another 100-200 when you add freestyles) Add all his "bitten" lines together and it would top out @ 2 songs maximum.

His longest "bite" was on his hit single "Give It To Me, I'm a Hustler" from the Dynasty album. He probably had 3-4 lines worth of Biggie on that track. Sounds bad right? Too bad C.Wallace is credited as a writer for that song on the album.

I don't see Nas and Tupac getting slammed for using the same concept as Organized Confusions (Monch and Po) Stray Bullet.

What's worse biting 2 famous lines from Slick Rick on the Blueprint album which Slick Rick is a guest on or using Slick Ricks style completely for a song like Nas did on Stillmatic's Destroy and Rebuild? (Which Cormega completely called him out on in the reply)
The way I see it, same concept and style isn't as bad as same lyrics word for word. I mean concept and style still has your own spin to it, but taking lyrics word for word is like "Oh hey, this isn't mine but let's just use it to kill some track time cause I'm too lazy to create and string together a few more syllables and words and put a little more effort into the song."
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Old 2007-07-31, 19:43   Link #46
Westlo
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I've never seen people give props to a lyric Jay-Z has bit, he bites famous sayings more than tight lines. I've seen countless people give props to Nas I Give You Power, even lots of people saying Tupac bit the concept on Me & My Girlfriend.

How is reusing a very popular snoop chorus (OBVIOUS) worst than reusing a new concept from an underground group? (NOT OBVIOUS) How many people knew that Jay-Z's Jigga My Nigga reused Snoops Chorus from What's My Name? (Everyone who listened to Doggystyle) How many people knew Organized Konfusion did Stray Bullet? (not many) No one goes "ah man jays gave us some tight lyrics in jigga my nigga", everyone praises I Gave You Power as not only one of the best songs off It Was Written but as one of the best concept songs in hiphop.

Cormega gave Nas the "Life's a Bitch, but God-forbid the bitch divorce me" line on Affirmative Action, is Nas wack now?

Also back to Jay-Z biting, this is not biting.

Do me a favor dude, get 2 ice cubes I pass them
Take that ice up, for the nicest MC
And please yo, tell BIG, he's unbelievable
Friend or foe BIOTCH!

Now I believe the Jay Z is a biter mp3 quoted the first 2 lines I've got here and than the biggie song, whats the biggie song called? Oh it's unbelievable.. so right after he says the "bitten" lines he says big and the song name...

I'm sorry that's not biting, a lot of that jayz is a biter mp3 had similar situations, where whoever made it didn't know or care about things like the above.

edit smh @ gza

"on the track like jessie owens"- jay (big L, jay-z freestyle 95)

"run on the track like jessie ownes"- gza (Jumpoff from The W)

Last edited by Westlo; 2007-07-31 at 20:29.
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Old 2007-07-31, 22:16   Link #47
SilentKnight
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Actually, I should revise that list of mine.

somewhere along the line I decided to randomly pick out notable artists and toss them in random spots and decide "Meh, it looks close enough."

top 10
Rakim
KRS-One
Nas
Big Daddy Kane
Kool G Rap
Keith Murray
Pharoahe Monch
Metal Face Doom
Del Tha Funkee Homosapien
Andre 3000

everything beyond that is rather arbitrary.
And I should note right now that I should have said it earlier, kill me for this if you want, Jay-Z's stuff is not my cup of tea. I've forced myself to sit there and listen and hope that it would grow on me, no dice.
I blew the biting thing out of proportion. It's more of an annoyance to me than something for me to make a big deal over. Overall, Jay-Z just didn't place in my book because his style doesn't suit me.
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Last edited by SilentKnight; 2007-07-31 at 22:28.
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Old 2007-08-03, 19:06   Link #48
-Mad Skillz-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Go Google the Ras Kass track "Nature of the Threat" since you seem to think hiphop = 50 cent
Flippin' ridiculous track.

After that check out Poet Laureate II (and Poet Laureate Infinity) by Canibus.
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Old 2007-08-16, 12:20   Link #49
FoxHound9
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I'm really into underground hiphop and I'm going to the sickest hiphop tour of the year; Rock the Bells! A bunch of really dope artists are going to be there when I see the tour in San Francisco. Some of my favorite artists these days are:
Murs
Immortal Technique
Atmosphere
Aesop Rock
FELT
The Roots
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Old 2007-08-16, 12:35   Link #50
Urotsukidoji
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Most rap that I seem to come across is supremely annoying. What I am disturbed about is that these artists can rap constantly about their "niggas" and "bitches" and people actually buy their records. It sickens me!

The only good rap IMO is Rage Against The Machine, and even then they have more of a heavy metal/rapcore style than true "niggas and bitches" rap. They're definitely better than trash like 50 Cent (he got shot nine times, but if you ask me he should be shot a tenth time... in the face), Kanye West (Mr. durrrrrrrr, da prez h8s blak ppl ololololol!!!11!1111!!!!1SHIFT!!), and the Ying Yang Twins (it's not even that, the concept is actually spelled yin-yang. Shows you just how smart these morons are).
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Old 2007-08-17, 12:09   Link #51
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Old 2007-08-17, 13:55   Link #52
Urotsukidoji
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Originally Posted by mrvetle View Post
I don't listen to rap because i simply hate the style: Rytmic talking with one simple beat that goes on through the whole song. Most rap seems to be this way, though some songs are diffrent. But it's still the rytmic talking, they don't sing. I'm more into metal.... listened to metal since i was 7, where i got into music.
Aye, this is precisely the reason why I do not like most rap. Unlike most commercialized American rap, heavy metal has a dynamic rhythm and is much more exciting. Ever listen to DragonForce's Through the Fire and Flames? Trying to play the solo will make you want to commit suicide, and playing the main melody will completely cut off the blood supply to your fingers and make your entire hand fall off.

I started listening to metal when I was eight, and even then I had to hide the Pantera records from my mother. :P

I probably should stop talking about this topic, as it is about hip-hop/rap, not metal...
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Old 2007-08-17, 14:47   Link #53
2H-Dragon
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Chris Rock about Rap Music <---what he said K?

Seriously who cares if they rap about bitches and ho's. Rockstars sing about women leaving them /cry or should I say /scream o_O. If you listen to any genré it's same shit different day tbh. The only proper music genre is classical, istrumental and trance/techno, etc, because no1 cares about the lyrics anymore because we already heard em all. Though I do love rock and rap, because the voice is an instrument. Lyrics ain't important for me though. Hence I can also appreciate non-english( and non-dutch)vocals. Go read a book if you want some deep shiz.
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Old 2007-08-17, 15:19   Link #54
Taraqs
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There is a diffrence between Rap and Hip hop. Rap=MainStream BootyShaking Cars Money Money BootyShaking BootyShaking Hoe's Cars Money BootyShaking BootyShaking Hoes and more BootyShaking. I also forgot Money.

Hip hop= Everything from the 90s and below. I can find two lyrics one from Biggie and one from Tupac. Then one from 50cent and one from Jayz. I will post them here and I want you to tell me which one is real rap.
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Old 2007-08-17, 15:39   Link #55
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...........

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Old 2007-08-17, 17:25   Link #56
ssfsx17
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I listen to DJ Krush, Five Deez, Fat Jon, 3582 and J. Rawls. Most of that was simply following Fat Jon's trail on iTunes, although I got DJ Krush from an iTunes reccomendation.
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Old 2007-08-17, 17:42   Link #57
Leedizzle
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I really don't think mainstream rap music is hated by that many people really.

At least from what I have experienced in my High School and currently my College is that most people enjoy mainstream rap.

Yes, I believe the image some rappers portray in their videos about women, money, and drugs isn't the life lesson you want to show your kids, but the appeal is the allure of this sort of lifestyle where there are constant parties, drugs, and beautiful women or men in some cases for females. The question is who really wouldn't want a lifestyle that is bathed in luxury?

I'm a rather large fan of mainstream rap from Lil Jon to 50 Cent to Paul Wall. They have all released songs that I can enjoy. Perhaps it is because I don't look to deep into the lyrics or try to absorb meaning from these songs.

For intelligent Hip Hop/Rap, who's the judge? I mean does this some specific criteria before a piece of music becomes intelligent? Is it the message it portrays? Is it the flow? The lyrics? I mean does it have to portray a positive message?

Can it not just appeal to a wide, diverse group of people? Shouldn't music just bring people to listen to it and enjoy it?
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Old 2007-08-17, 17:50   Link #58
Urotsukidoji
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Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon View Post
Seriously who cares if they rap about bitches and ho's. Rockstars sing about women leaving them /cry or should I say /scream o_O. If you listen to any genré it's same shit different day tbh.
Not all rappers rap about "niggas and bitches" (to them, "bitches" and "hos" are technically the same thing) just like not all rock stars sing about women leaving them. Tony Kakko of Sonata Arctica and James Hetfield of Metallica both include extensive literary references in their vocals (Sonata Arctica's Wolf and Raven is a completely obvious homage to Shakespeare's Macbeth). The extreme power metal band DragonForce tends to sing more about driving a Dire Sword of Frost straight through an orc's head rather than about love. The death metal band Cannibal Corpse sings exclusively about gore rather than love (song titles like "Blunt Force Castration," "Drowning in Viscera," "Hammer Smashed Face," "Dormant Bodies Bursting," and "Hatchet to the Head" are a testament to this). NWOBHM band Iron Maiden prefer epic vocals and high-flying dual guitar wankery, and incorporate poetic and literary references into their songs (check out "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner," which retells the poem of the same name).
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Old 2007-08-17, 22:07   Link #59
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...........

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Old 2007-08-18, 06:48   Link #60
Mueti
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In my opinion there are very very few songs with really good lyrics, conentwise that is (and no, I wouldn't count any of those you named, Urotsukidoji). But most of the time I really don't care, since, as 2H-Dragon put it: "Go read a book if you want some deep shiz." There are exceptions, of course.

And Leedizzle is right as well. There's nothing that makes universally appealing music inter-subjectively stupid. From a purely subjective point of view I would call lots of it stupid though, but meh.


And to the two metalheads here: Metal is not better than rap. It's funny that you mentioned Sonata Arctica because I would say they're inferior to pretty much every rap-artist I listen to. Don't get me wrong, I like metal as well and the genre has produced some great music and what I said before certainly applies the other way around as well: rap is not better than metal. But I just don't like it when people dismiss a whole genre without ever giving it a serious try, or worse, exclusively listen to only one genre. Not that I would force anyone either.
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