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Old 2004-02-26, 01:01   Link #1
Gunjin
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Join Date: May 2003
BT vs. XDCC - Pros & Cons of IRC File Serving

Its nice that A-E has found their home but why make some titles irc only? irc is annoying and clunky to use I'd much rather leave a torrent open and seed for an evening than reinstall and log onto irc. your going to get a bunch of folks on there, many of whom have proably only used bittorent and not irc, asking stupid questions who will then never log onto the channel again after getting the shows.
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Old 2004-02-26, 03:33   Link #2
TaMz
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I don't like the IRC release thing either...
I just don't like XDCC... very unreliable...
if connection is lost, the file corrupts and I need to DL from start again...
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Old 2004-02-26, 07:20   Link #3
KoroshiyaX
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The IRC release is just promotional for our new network. You should remember that up until recently, all releases were done via fileservers and xdcc bots.

It is still the preferred method for those who can use IRC, since you get an instant send almost immediately, and completed at a fraction of the time it takes to complete a BT download.

And personally, I'd rather have a chat with fans, then have people downloading blindly and never speaking to, or knowing the people behind the works.

BT has made everyone into virtual couch potatoes

The releases will be put on BT tomorrow.

We should continue this in new thread, if you would like to discuss more about the IRC vs BT topic, I am sure a lot of people would join in. It would be interesting.

Let's keep this thread strictly for New Network announcements
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Old 2004-02-26, 09:32   Link #4
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroshiyaX
It is still the preferred method for those who can use IRC, since you get an instant send almost immediately, and completed at a fraction of the time it takes to complete a BT download.
Explain this unjustified assertion, please.

Gee, if I didn't know better, I might think you were an egosubber trying to get people to join your channel so you could epenis++.
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Old 2004-02-26, 13:52   Link #5
ChocoEd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroshiyaX
It is still the preferred method for those who can use IRC, since you get an instant send almost immediately, and completed at a fraction of the time it takes to complete a BT download.
You know, if you seeded your torrents with even a small fraction of the bandwidth that you use for XDCC bots, your torrents would run a lot faster.

The only reason your bots would be faster than your torrents is if you're uploading 100mbps through bots and 100kbps through your BT seeds (to pull numbers out of thin air).
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Old 2004-02-26, 15:08   Link #6
SirCanealot
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Yeah, BT makes distro a breeze. If between you you've got a 100k upload and are running Super Seed mode you've got a self seeded torrent in a few hours. It probebly isn't viable for most groups to run heavy ass XDCCs these days for anime (I actually see a few groups now that don't even have fast XDCCs for their LATEST releases... which is annoying).

I still stand by XDCC when it's actually avalible though, screw BT...

And most people don't give a crap about you or talking to you. When I join a chan to hog some sweet XDCC loving, I very rarely talk in the chan. Usely only if a subject comes up I'm knowledable about/happen to want to talk about. Even when we had around 150 people in our chan (before the crash, now we have a couple of dozen, hahaha) we actually only recently got about 5-6 people that actually talked in there.....
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Old 2004-02-26, 15:12   Link #7
Akagami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoEd
You know, if you seeded your torrents with even a small fraction of the bandwidth that you use for XDCC bots, your torrents would run a lot faster.

The only reason your bots would be faster than your torrents is if you're uploading 100mbps through bots and 100kbps through your BT seeds (to pull numbers out of thin air).
Hmm? Why is that it takes two for this to work. Also you forget that BT is a cumulative effect of the number and quality of leechers NOT just the Speed of the seed.
With many hacks and exploits starting to become available for BT ,and downloaders canceling the upload as soon as the download completes it won't be long before XDCC bots are back in "vogue". Go ahead A-E release how you want.
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Old 2004-02-26, 15:27   Link #8
SirCanealot
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Even if 1000000 people do close their windows right away, there still seem to be a lot of people who don't mind leaving their window open. Look at Naruto, always a LOT of seeds for about a week after...
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Old 2004-02-26, 15:38   Link #9
ChocoEd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akagami
Hmm? Why is that it takes two for this to work. Also you forget that BT is a cumulative effect of the number and quality of leechers NOT just the Speed of the seed.
With many hacks and exploits starting to become available for BT ,and downloaders canceling the upload as soon as the download completes it won't be long before XDCC bots are back in "vogue". Go ahead A-E release how you want.
You're missing my point. An XDCC transfer is exactly equivalent to a BT client that never uploads and always disconnects as soon as it's done. It's already the worst case you're imagining for BT above.

So if you have a certain amount of bandwidth to upload with, you're always better off using it for BT than for XDCC, since even in the case of 100% hacked leeching BT clients it's still just a tie with XDCC.

The reason torrents can be slower than XDCC is because you're comparing apples (the speed of a self-sustaining torrent) with oranges (the speed of a "seeded" XDCC transfer). If you seed your torrents the same way you "seed" your XDCC bots, BT will fly. Or equivalently, if you run your XDCC bots at the same speed as your BT seeds, XDCC will definitely suck.
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Old 2004-02-26, 16:27   Link #10
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Explain this unjustified assertion, please.

Gee, if I didn't know better, I might think you were an egosubber trying to get people to join your channel so you could epenis++.

Why do you care if they make it irc only. It is their work. You don't like it don't download it. You making statements like the above just makes you look like an elitist.
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Old 2004-02-26, 16:30   Link #11
DekaMaster
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It still amazes me how many people think they are owed BT. It's as if they some how have the idea that fansub groups owe them anything. All you people that think this way,there was no bt until just recently and for years people have been doing irc to get files and what not through XDCC,TDCC and DCC. I see people all the time say "it's to hard to use irc" if you can't even figure out an fserv you shouldn't be using a pc.
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Old 2004-02-26, 16:34   Link #12
lavalyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingRanger
It still amazes me how many people think they are owed BT. It's as if they some how have the idea that fansub groups owe them anything. All you people that think this way,there was no bt until just recently and for years people have been doing irc to get files and what not through XDCC,TDCC and DCC. I see people all the time say "it's to hard to use irc" if you can't even figure out an fserv you shouldn't be using a pc.
It's not a matter of being owed anything.

It's a simple matter to show that, apples to apples (xdcc bots versus xdcc bots running BT seeds) BT wins in reaching mass distribution faster, hands down. So the request, then, is to get the bots running BT supplementary to xdcc, so that the BT leechers can take advantage of xdcc speed.
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Old 2004-02-26, 16:42   Link #13
Somedude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroshiyaX
And personally, I'd rather have a chat with fans, then have people downloading blindly and never speaking to, or knowing the people behind the works.
The fans will make it to your channel anyways. Leachers don't generally chat. I'd much prefer that only the people that WANT to talk or ask questions show up in a channel because it's generally more fruitful.
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Old 2004-02-26, 16:49   Link #14
Somedude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingRanger
It still amazes me how many people think they are owed BT. It's as if they some how have the idea that fansub groups owe them anything. All you people that think this way,there was no bt until just recently and for years people have been doing irc to get files and what not through XDCC,TDCC and DCC. I see people all the time say "it's to hard to use irc" if you can't even figure out an fserv you shouldn't be using a pc.
For some circular logic for you to run with for a bit... Why not release in BT?

In fact, why not release in mpg or rm? It's not like we need this avi stuff.

The only justification I can see is that they are either luddites or the are trying to bolster the number of people in their channel under false pretenses.
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Old 2004-02-26, 16:56   Link #15
DrWho2002
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Location: Canada, eh?
I don't really care how it's released, because I can use them all, IRC, BT, or Usenet. I already grabbed it off usenet yesterday because it showed up there. People should become more computer literate anyways, the internet is full of dumbass leechers who whine far too much, and no group "owes" anybody anything.
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Old 2004-02-26, 16:57   Link #16
NoSanninWa
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Hey if they want to release on IRC for a day before they make a BT release, then who cares? If you can't figure out how to use mIRC then, just wait one bloody day! If it is so important that they can't wait a day, then they will figure out how to use an XDCC bot. Personally it doesn't bother me at all, because...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroshiyaX
It is still the preferred method for those who can use IRC, since you get an instant send almost immediately, and completed at a fraction of the time it takes to complete a BT download.
Explain this unjustified assertion, please.

Gee, if I didn't know better, I might think you were an egosubber trying to get people to join your channel so you could epenis++.
I usually go onto IRC to get the latest releases of the big groups with fast XDCC bots. It usually takes me about a half-hour or so to download it, then I run BT and become a seed because the torrent still only has the seeds that it started with. Personally, I find it a real kick to become a seed when everyone else is still stuck at only 35% and slowly crawling towards completion. That does support his assertion to your satisfaction?

Actually I have to confess that it wasn't this easy to download on IRC before the advent of BitTorrent. The queues used to be horrendous, but with BitTorrent taking the brunt of a release, downloading has become easy and often queueless.
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Old 2004-02-26, 17:18   Link #17
Griffith
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I can download from an XDCC bot at 400k+ The fastest I've ever downloaded off BT was just barely 200K, and that was with 1000+ seeds. It's not rocket science to figure out which one I prefer. Bit Torrent is also a system/RAM hog, which makes it unpleasant to do other things while downloading.
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Old 2004-02-26, 17:31   Link #18
KoroshiyaX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Explain this unjustified assertion, please.

Gee, if I didn't know better, I might think you were an egosubber trying to get people to join your channel so you could epenis++.
I think it is very much justified if you actually took your time to come to the channel.

There are about a dozen bots ranging from 10mbit to 100mbit with half of their slots available, with most of them able to max out your broadband download bandwidth easily.

NoSanninWa has it right, if you download from XDCC on a chan which has several Fast bots available, you will definitely get the file within 30 minutes. Rather than waiting hours on BT.

And nowadays there are those on BT who use those clients which has 0KB/sec upload capability, or just use the ISDN mode. its becoming a trend nowadays.

We're putting the files on BT today, so you can stop your complaints :P which imo, are coming from a spoiled impatient anime fan.

We do not use our fast bots on BT because when we do, the bandwidth is almost uncontrolled and erratic. Sometimes it is split between hundreds of people, and only doing 1-5K/sec per user. Even when there are only 10 users, it still isn't able to max out.

On XDCC, one of our bots for example, AE|Herikawa, could do 10-15 300KB/sec sends at the same time. On others such as AE|Azbot, it could output 5-6MB/sec easily over XDCC with just 20-25 users.

I'd like to hear other people's opinions, and experience on both BT and XDCC, actually, I should say BT Vs Fast XDCC, it would be a more accurate comparison

BT also uses quite of bit of CPU and RAM when doing a lot of transfer, iroffer(XDCC server) on the other hand uses very little ;-)

Last edited by KoroshiyaX; 2004-02-26 at 17:41.
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Old 2004-02-26, 17:49   Link #19
festosis
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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I've tried to use Irc and failed I get most of my stuff through BT I am always prepared to wait as long as it takes for the fansub groups to release their shows. I am satisfied with being able to watch these shows period, people cry to much. Also though when I did try to use irc nobody on there was willing to help like I was suposed to be born with the ability to use Irc so I uninstalled the program If I could use it I would be happy to get on your channel and chat n stuff, but I guess since bt is around it made it easier to give up trying. Also I was worried about the automatic download thing. Since my friend makes me paranoid by his constant metioninig of viruses and trojans and all that plus the fact that my firewall was making it even harder to use it . Release your episodes any way you want I don't mind waiting and keep up the great work. PLANETES is one of my favorite series of all time and you guys are doing a great job with it.
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Old 2004-02-26, 17:57   Link #20
Gunjin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroshiyaX
I think it is very much justified if you actually took your time to come to the channel.

There are about a dozen bots ranging from 10mbit to 100mbit with half of their slots available, with most of them able to max out your broadband download bandwidth easily.

NoSanninWa has it right, if you download from XDCC on a chan which has several Fast bots available, you will definitely get the file within 30 minutes. Rather than waiting hours on BT.

And nowadays there are those on BT who use those clients which has 0KB/sec upload capability, or just use the ISDN mode. its becoming a trend nowadays.

We're putting the files on BT today, so you can stop your complaints :P which imo, are coming from a spoiled impatient anime fan.

We do not use our fast bots on BT because when we do, the bandwidth is almost uncontrolled and erratic. Sometimes it is split between hundreds of people, and only doing 1-5K/sec per user. Even when there are only 10 users, it still isn't able to max out.

On XDCC, one of our bots for example, AE|Herikawa, could do 10-15 300KB/sec sends at the same time. On others such as AE|Azbot, it could output 5-6MB/sec easily over XDCC with just 20-25 users.

I'd like to hear other people's opinions, and experience on both BT and XDCC, actually, I should say BT Vs Fast XDCC, it would be a more accurate comparison

BT also uses quite of bit of CPU and RAM when doing a lot of transfer, iroffer(XDCC server) on the other hand uses very little ;-)
Hmm I guess I started this (someone turned my reply into a new topic while I was at work) so I guess im the spoiled impatient fan. When the original a-e post went up it was phrased as if it was only going to be on irc and not released on torrent at all. Now personally I don't like irc fservs and xdcc give me a headache, 95% of the time i went in a channel its full of rude people who didn't want to help or chat. I'm a patient man I started getting fansubs back in the days where you'd trade tapes through the mail so waiting is of no concern with me, if they want to release it on irc first i don't care, i jsut perfer to use torrent so i'll wait I only get concerned when it dosent come to bittorent at all. As for the waiting hours for a file on bittorent i average 45~55 minutes on a file with bittorrent only slightly slower than a fast bot but the times i've used irc i spent 2x as long as that in a que waiting for the fast bot and with bittorrent I get to help distro the file where as in irc id just get and go. Now I will say i've never been in a-e's channel maybe they run it better it's just not worth the extra headache to use irc for me (i'd have to reinstall it as it is i never put it back on after my last format)
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