AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

View Poll Results: Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 18 34.62%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 17 32.69%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 23.08%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 7.69%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.92%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-09-02, 12:39   Link #41
holybell84
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Singapore
can someone teach me hot to navigate 2 chan or something? I wanna see the posts/ screenies T-T
holybell84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 12:46   Link #42
Nightengale
~Night of Gales~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
You know, I find it incessantly strange that the not-that-bad-but-everyone-hates-them type of guy seems to only have his nicest points shown when they're pushed to a corner after we start disliking them. It ruins the gray character tension in my opinion. Still, it's nice to see Regius being shown to once be a good man (( apparently )) and coming to acceptance of Zest's coming, as opposed to his "SPAZ and HAET" which dominated his character portrayal.

And as expected, Zest didn't go there to chop his head off... at least not yet. His voice tone shows that he still considers him a friend... somewhat.
__________________
Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.

The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.
Nightengale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 12:58   Link #43
krisslanza
Sleep beneath the flowers
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lording above all of humanity >;3
Age: 25
CHOP HIS HEAD OFF ZEST! D<
I mean who likes Regius?
__________________
krisslanza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:08   Link #44
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Zest wants to know who was responsible for the death of his team years ago.

Regius has yet to give an answer

His knight code prevents him from taking action before that
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:09   Link #45
Nightengale
~Night of Gales~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
Zest wants to know who was responsible for the death of his team years ago.

Regius has yet to give an answer
I thought Zest asks if it's him, and not ask who?

And besides, from what Zest speaks of "where had our justice gone" talk, I think it implies that he already knows he's the one, but wants to hear it from his own mouth, since he's a friend.
__________________
Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.

The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.
Nightengale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:15   Link #46
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 30
Aren't people being a little too hard on the show and its flaws? I mean, just as you don't ask pears from an apple tree, a magical girl show with an action twist isn't expected to give you flawless plot execution and super-b developed characters. If you were expecting that, not only are you looking at the wrong show, but at the wrong genre. Sure, it would be nice if the plot had been masterfuly wooven, so that it would be even possible to give it an award for that, like Seirei no Moribito, Juuni Kokki or something of the sort. Sure, it would be great if it had super-b characters whose relationships and individuality showed real growth throughtout the series, like Simoun or Higurashi. What's more, it would be wonderful if they dedicated time to delve into the intrincancies of their world on how it has an influence on our characters, like in Aria on Mushishi.

But no, you are asking for something of the sort from a show whose closest relative are those of the sort of Naruto and Bleach, but with girls. Sure, it is several notches above those, having for the most part likeable characters so that you can (more or less) feel for them, having internal consistency and being realistic on its own terms, which is a great feat already for this kind of shows.

But there is a difference between that and asking a series qualities worth of a series of the year. Nanoha is a good show in its own right, considering the limitations of the genre and of the focus it had from the start. Don't ruin your own watching experience expecting something from it it was'nt even supposed to give from the start.

I'll agree with you though, that the show suffered from some deep direction problems throughtout the series, but most notable between the first and second half. If there is a flaw within the show that even I recognize, it is that they had no clear idea where the show was going from the start. It almost seems they only had a sketch of the plot and they just went improvising on the run.

Or in the words of my little brother: "Nanoha gives me the laughs every time someone uses some exaggerated technique or powerup, so for me Nanoha is like a magical girl action comedy."

Now then, on the topic of the chapter, it's nice to see a fight where there are more brains than pure "INYOURFACEIHAVEMOREPOWERTHANYOU". So yay for Teana and the league of "I-don't-like-DBZ-type-battles" Subaru's battle conclusion and its buildup was a tad too cheesy but we had already saw that coming from leagues before, so I'll have to give it it is consistent within its chessiness. On the downside the numbers are starting to fall like flies, but I guess it is to be expected with such a big villian cast combined with such a short runtime remaining. If there is ever a fourth season they will need to define better where are they going from the start or they will run in a deeper deadend than this time around.

Other than that, a decent episode, with the plus side of Teana's battle, Nanoha's exaggerated buildups and the laughter it comes with it, and some plot revelation at the end of the episode. (It seems that Regius liteneaunt is also part, albeit indirectly of Regius and Zest little circle of friends ).

Last edited by Proto; 2007-09-02 at 13:26.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:23   Link #47
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
I thought Zest asks if it's him, and not ask who?

And besides, from what Zest speaks of "where had our justice gone" talk, I think it implies that he already knows he's the one, but wants to hear it from his own mouth, since he's a friend.
that's just my phrasing of the words, but otherwise, yes, and yes
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:27   Link #48
Nightengale
~Night of Gales~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
Aren't people being a little too hard on the show and its flaws? I mean, just as you don't ask pears from an apple tree, a magical girl show with an action twist isn't expected to give you flawless plot execution and super-b developed characters.
Actually, good plot execution is a must for any self-respecting show. A lot of shows have a fairly simple plot, but the importance is execution.

And if you ask me to give Nanoha my highest standards for character development (( as in Saiunkoku/LoGH/etc )) I wouldn't even watch Nanoha to begin with. There is however, a set-in standard when compared with other characters and previous seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
If you were expecting that, not only are you looking at the wrong show, but at the wrong genre.
We did not expect that, but we at least want what is presented to us to be presented well.

As in a good balance of plot, character development, build-up, drama, tension and all that...

As it stands, StrikerS is lacking in most departments, EVEN when compared to A's. No, I'm not pulling out names like Toward the Terra where the build-up is 3000 times better than anything StrikerS ever did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
Sure, it would be nice if the plot had been masterfuly wooven, so that it would be even possible to give it an award for that, like Seirei no Moribito, Juuni Kokki or something of the sort.
You know... we're already being VERY lenient on the plot especially when it's paper thin on a prophecy pun intended... Not once had anyone compare StrikerS's plot to masterpieces. However, can we say that it's not executed well, in respects to pacing, exposition and stuff?

YES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
Sure, it would be great if it had super-b characters whose relationships and individuality showed real growth throughtout the series, like Simoun or Higurashi.
Subaru is well developed. Teana is. Nanoha is too. Fate too in a manner. ( In the SS )

Erio? Caro? VILLAINS? Honestly, a lot feels flat as well. It's like character development was misdivided between important cast members. And by extension, a degree of the drama is lost, since with less character development, character dynamic and interaction loses a lot of umph as well.

Like Lightning/Lutecia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
What's more, it would be wonderful if they dedicated time to delve into the intrincancies of their world on how it has an influence on our characters, like in Aria on Mushishi.
Have we EVER complained on its worldly settings? In fact, most people didn't enjoy the history lessons, since rather than being shown, they're being told. Bad directing there.
__________________
Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.

The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.
Nightengale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:35   Link #49
panzerfan
Name means little...
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: A town that has been showered by snow...
Age: 29
We as viewers should wait for the entire story to unfold before acting as critics. Let the original vision of Masaki Suzuki be told before trying to view the situation from another angle I suppose might make for a more sound analysis and assessment.
__________________

It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality.
It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori


panzerfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:37   Link #50
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
After watching this much I have a theory about Quattro

she's not just a mere number, but also, a project F product and backup of Scaglietti

in other words, I think she is a copy of Scaglietti's memories and personality in another body
Key Board is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:42   Link #51
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 30
Quote:
Actually, good plot execution is a must for any self-respecting show. A lot of shows have a fairly simple plot, but the importance is execution.
I'll have to give you that for Striker's second half, where it seemd to lose any sense of direction. Prior to that the show was going strong, at least in my book. Then again, it is greatly a matter of taste (except when its so badly done everyone can agree on that) so this point is arguable at best.

Quote:
Subaru is well developed. Teana is. Nanoha is too. Fate too in a manner.

Erio? Caro? VILLAINS? Honestly, a lot feels flat as well. It's like character development was misdivided between important cast members.
It can be argued that Nanoha is more than just the anime, but a project enveloping the manga and the sound stages. If you consider Nanoha as that, then you can count in many of the characters who were shafted in the series as having their share of development. You can just think of it as a new paradigm where the objective is to have more material for the show to be more developed/so that the otakus have more to buy= more revenue.

Quote:
As in a good balance of plot, character development, build-up, drama, tension and all that...
It's not like every show has to balance all those factors, it all depends on what the series, producers directors and the people behind it want to do with it. Is Aria a bad show because it has close to nil plot, and the character development and growth is subtle at best? No, because Aria doesn't even care about those (at least for the former) It is a show about the world it takes place in, and about the interaction of the characters with such world.)

Likewise, Nanoha's plot has always been more or less an excuse for the character to have something to use magic on. Nanoha's plot has always been weak from the start, and the setting was never the focus to begind with, since Nanoha was more about the characters, their relationship with the magic they stumbled upon, with the hurdles they came against with and the confrontation between ideals. For me, Nanoha is a show about the characters and about their conflicts. Sure, it is by no means a masterpiece at that, since it has many flaws (including a big one called Vivio) but for the most part it is quite a decent project (in the anime/ss/manga sense) when seen from this POV

on another matter, maybe we should ask the mods for a thread about our opinion's on Nahoha's overall direction and related topics, since this is quite a recurrent topic in almost all the threads in this sub-forum.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 13:42   Link #52
Mirificus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
Aren't people being a little too hard on the show and its flaws? I mean, just as you don't ask pears from an apple tree, a magical girl show with an action twist isn't expected to give you flawless plot execution and super-b developed characters. If you were expecting that, not only are you looking at the wrong show, but at the wrong genre.
I would say that lazy and predictable writing are problems regardless of the genre or media. The way they telescoped what would happen at least half a dozen episodes in advance was hardly subtle.

Quote:
Sure, it is several notches above those, having for the most part likeable characters so that you can (more or less) feel for them, having internal consistency and being realistic on its own terms, which is a great feat already for this kind of shows.
I don't think we've been watching the same show. You could see very clearly how the plot was dictating how characters would act rather then what their actions being a natural result of what they were experiencing.

Quote:
But there is a difference between that and asking a series qualities worth of a series of the year. Nanoha is a good show in its own right, considering the limitations of the genre and of the focus it had from the start.
I don't think anyone was looking for series of the year. What they did expect though was for the quality to be a reasonable match for the first two seasons.

Quote:
I'll agree with you though, that the show suffered from some deep direction problems throughtout the series, but most notable between the first and second half. If there is a flaw within the show that even I recognize, it is that they had no clear idea where the show was going from the start. It almost seems they only had a sketch of the plot and they just went improvising on the run.
That has been a huge problem and a lot of the problems the show has been having are probably symptoms of it.
__________________
Mirificus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 14:05   Link #53
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
I'll have to give you that for Striker's second half, where it seemd to lose any sense of direction. Prior to that the show was going strong, at least in my book. Then again, it is greatly a matter of taste (except when its so badly done everyone can agree on that) so this point is arguable at best.
When it comes to the point where you have more people giving reasonable statements as to why the show isn't performing, as to the number of people defending it...

... You know something's wrong.

And this is not random people who had just pop in to bitch and whine, you're talking about people who watched the show from the very beginning. Hell, we've defended the show from the beginning.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
It can be argued that Nanoha is more than just the anime, but a project enveloping the manga and the sound stages. If you consider Nanoha as that, then you can count in many of the characters who were shafted in the series as having their share of development. You can just think of it as a new paradigm where the objective is to have more material for the show to be more developed/so that the otakus have more to buy= more revenue.
But yet, in those stories (Manga and sound stage), we still did not get the development that makes the story reasonable.

The simplest of example is the Caro/Erio/Lutecia interaction Nightengale mentioned. I've demand it for the longest time, yet it's no where to be found. Nobody can Seriously believe that Caro would feel that way to a complete strange, let alone Lutecia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
It's not like every show has to balance all those factors, it all depends on what the series, producers directors and the people behind it want to do with it. Is Aria a bad show because it has close to nil plot, and the character development and growth is subtle at best? No, because Aria doesn't even care about those (at least for the former) It is a show about the world it takes place in, and about the interaction of the characters with such world.)
Unfortunately, Nanoha is different in the sense the it DOES require a good plot, and character growth and development is everything to it.

You can't just survive on interaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
Likewise, Nanoha's plot has always been more or less an excuse for the character to have something to use magic on. Nanoha's plot has always been weak from the start, and the setting was never the focus to begind with, since Nanoha was more about the characters, their relationship with the magic they stumbled upon, with the hurdles they came against with and the confrontation between ideals. For me, Nanoha is a show about the characters and about their conflicts. Sure, it is by no means a masterpiece at that, since it has many flaws (including a big one called Vivio) but for the most part it is quite a decent project (in the anime/ss/manga sense) when seen from this POV
I don't truely believe that. From season 1 and season 2, the story plot has been very good, at least to me. I do agree that they have strong focus on the characters, but this time they have overspent time on some, and Neglecting the rest.

The entire Stars team has more development than anyone else in on the series, you can argue that it's because they're the main characters, but so are Lightning and Hayate... And Villains deserves developments as well.
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 14:23   Link #54
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 30
Quote:
I would say that lazy and predictable writing are problems regardless of the genre or media. The way they telescoped what would happen at least half a dozen episodes in advance was hardly subtle.
Again, Nanoha has never been a show where the plot was subtle or anything. Sure, it came a surprise the twists we saw during the first season, specially with Fate introduction. But after that it required little imagination to see where everything was going, at least the bigger strokes. StrikerS did nothing but continue that tradition. Is it something bad? Sure, since it just goes to show poor scripwritting and a lazy plot. Is it something tremendously detrimental? Not for me at least, since I never watched Nanoha for its plot since it started.

Quote:
I don't think we've been watching the same show. You could see very clearly how the plot was dictating how characters would act rather then what their actions being a natural result of what they were experiencing.
I was saying when comparing it to its cousins, those of the shounen and, to a leaser extent, the seinen genre. Out of all the anime genres, those have the most predictable plots in the anime world. Nanoha is higher than the rest of its family, but still she suffers from the family syntoms. I never denied that.

Quote:
When it comes to the point where you have more people giving reasonable statements as to why the show isn't performing, as to the number of people defending it...

... You know something's wrong.
Well sheer numbers don't demonstrate anything by themselves. It could just be that the series is misunderstood

Quote:
The simplest of example is the Caro/Erio/Lutecia interaction Nightengale mentioned. I've demand it for the longest time, yet it's no where to be found. Nobody can Seriously believe that Caro would feel that way to a complete strange, let alone Lutecia.
And I agree with you. As I said, I never denied that Nanoha has faults, I just said they are being blown out of proportion when considering the scope of the series. And within the scope of the series what you mentioned IS a big fault, since we are talking some illogical character relationship in here. (unless its just a parody about the fan's so called Nanoha school of befriending. Maybe the show is just poking fun at itself?)

Quote:
The entire Stars team has more development than anyone else in on the series, you can argue that it's because they're the main characters, but so are Lightning and Hayate... And Villains deserves developments as well.
And again, I'll agree that that is another fault the show has. Sure, this cumulative set of faults will make that the show will never be within anyone's Top 10, but still we are putting aside many of the pluses the show has presented. Right, I agree that one of the points I liked the show for was that it accomplished the unusual feat of making the villians human, making them have motives, feelings and the such. We had suffered from a serious lackluster from that in the third season, but in exchange we have received some nice development of certain characters that is parallel to what we saw in the first seasons. (and since I like characters like Teana, her having more attention than others wasn't exactly a flaw in my book). Again, the idea was not bad, but it could have used better directing.

Again, maybe I have not stated my point clearly. My point has been that:

- We are marking flaws the series have, but that are not the focus of the series, and this, while bad, they are not extremely detrimental
- Inside the scope of the series, the third season still has faults, but at least on my opinion the overall balance is positive.
- My opinion, as everyone else's is not absolute, it's just a recollection of my own impressions and what I like. I'm just voicing out my thoughts since, as Chaos2Frozen said, we are underrepresented
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 14:25   Link #55
FlareKnight
User of the "Fast Draw"
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to FlareKnight Send a message via MSN to FlareKnight
Yeah when it comes down to it development got thrown to certain people (Stars squad) and others got left on the floor. Agree that the Lutecia and Erio/Caro interactions now doesn't make a whole lot of sense since they haven't done much with them to make Caro and Erio try so hard to turn her. It's not like the first few seasons where Nanoha fought Fate numerous times or going up against the knights a few times. All we had was one fight and having Lutecia nearby when Erio got smacked out of the sky.

Anyways onto the episode at hand
Spoiler:
__________________
FlareKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 14:50   Link #56
azuma-blade
The Dominant
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Raven's Ark
Age: 28
Send a message via Yahoo to azuma-blade
Quote:
Originally Posted by aers View Post
sue me

Spoiler for 23:
VIVIO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Cmon wake up to your senses

"slaps vivio to her senses"
__________________
azuma-blade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 14:55   Link #57
Fabien
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Europe
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
Aren't people being a little too hard on the show and its flaws? I mean, just as you don't ask pears from an apple tree, a magical girl show with an action twist isn't expected to give you [...]
I think most of us expected StrikerS to be as good as the first two seasons. Which doesn't strike me as irrational.
Fabien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 14:59   Link #58
Fabien
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Europe
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
You can just think of it as a new paradigm where the objective is to have more material for the show to be more developed/so that the otakus have more to buy= more revenue.
It's pretty dangerous. If the TV series itself is uninteresting, nobody will bother with other materials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
on another matter, maybe we should ask the mods for a thread about our opinion's on Nahoha's overall direction and related topics, since this is quite a recurrent topic in almost all the threads in this sub-forum.
If such a thread is created, will there be enough material left for episode-specific threads to be worth creating? ~_~
Fabien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 15:04   Link #59
Fabien
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Europe
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by azuma-blade View Post
"slaps vivio to her senses"
Don't. At least, right now, she's not crying, which is a nice change.
Fabien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-09-02, 15:05   Link #60
xizro345
King's Justice
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
I think most of us expected StrikerS to be as good as the first two seasons. Which doesn't strike me as irrational.
Yet people overlooked the most embarassing plot hole of the first half of the series (the emo-Tea arc)? Seems odd to me.
I've got nothing to complain against Strikers save that episode, I'm not really disappointed so far overall.
xizro345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.