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Old 2007-09-02, 21:07   Link #41
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
The very idea of numerous gundams all having mass destructing weapons is unrealistic, fake and too "super robot-ish".

And gundams shouldn't fly unless it transfers into MA or wave fighter like Zeta.

I don't see why they don't make new series on realistic gundams anymore.

More of my rants...
No, they could fly if there was proper explanation. In UC the reason why some ms flied was because of minovsky drive. Was there explanation for other series?
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Old 2007-09-02, 21:32   Link #42
neutralizer
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Originally Posted by hyperlion View Post
No, they could fly if there was proper explanation. In UC the reason why some ms flied was because of minovsky drive. Was there explanation for other series?
Wait, why couldn't they fly? Thrusters on the back should be sufficient provide the propulsion for flight.

Unless you mean flight without the use of thrusters, but I don't really recall any Gundams doing that.
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Old 2007-09-02, 21:39   Link #43
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a hero is needed for the worshippers,

and of course teens like this sort of set-up.
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Old 2007-09-02, 21:41   Link #44
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Originally Posted by neutralizer View Post
Wait, why couldn't they fly? Thrusters on the back should be sufficient provide the propulsion for flight.

Unless you mean flight without the use of thrusters, but I don't really recall any Gundams doing that.
In Victory Gundam ms was able to stay in air because of minovksy drive and it used thruster to maneuver in mid air. I think that ms staying in mid air in the same spot just on thruster in not realistic at all. Another thing how Archangel and Minerva stay in mid air was a mystery to me.
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Old 2007-09-02, 21:44   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
The very idea of numerous gundams all having mass destructing weapons is unrealistic, fake and too "super robot-ish".

And gundams shouldn't fly unless they transform into MA (Psyco) or wave fighter like Zeta.

I don't see why they don't make new series on realistic gundams anymore.

More of my rants...
Because normal Gundams will not sell in model kits. That's BANDAI's rationale anyway. Like it or not, the direction of Gundam story depends on direction of model kit sales. If more people buy normal, realistic leaning Gundams model kits, BANDAI will sponsor a normal, realistic Gundam anime to promote the upcoming model kits.

Luckily though, manga and light novels seem to favour realistic UC Gundam so all is not lost.
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Old 2007-09-02, 22:12   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
The very idea of numerous gundams all having mass destructing weapons is unrealistic, fake and too "super robot-ish".
I'm not sure I get your drift; the only Gundams that truly have mass destruction weapons are Gundam X, Double X and, arguably, Turn A/Turn X. While Wing Zero, Zanneck, and a few others may have powerful guns, they're not in the same category at all.

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Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
And gundams shouldn't fly unless they transform into MA (Psyco) or wave fighter like Zeta.
What difference will that make? It's not as if Psyco or Zeta are aerodynamic in their alternate forms. Besides, it's quite possible to achieve flight through brute-force techniques - that's how rockets get into space.

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Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
I don't see why they don't make new series on realistic gundams anymore.
Only a couple of OVAs can be considered reasonably realistic in the first place.

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Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2 View Post
Luckily though, manga and light novels seem to favour realistic UC Gundam so all is not lost.
It's not as if UC Gundam is more realistic than any of the other Gundam universes. Ghost-powered forcefields and the like are possibly the most unrealistic parts of the franchise.
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Old 2007-09-02, 22:29   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
Why are the newer gundams series (G, W, Seed, and possibly OO) so "fake"? Of course gundams are not real, but i meant fake in the sense that one gundam takes down numerous enemies without a scratch?
I haven't watched G Gundam in a while, but I don't think that show had many, if any, battles that featured one Gundam taking down multiple enemies in one attack like what SEED featured.

And the shows in which they featured this were successful, so the producers probably thought it was one of the ways to make Gundam shows very successful in both ratings and in merchandising. Whether you agree with that or not is up to you, but that's probably why it's implemented in the more recent Gundam shows.

Personally, I don't think having "overpowered" or "Godly" Gundams is really that bad, as long as it's done correctly. I think Gundam SEED did this very well. In SEED, the Freedom Gundam certainly had a ridiculous number of weapons equipped to it. But when it went into battle with the enemy Gundams in the second half of the series, it didn't take them out in a flash; as a matter of fact, it had a pretty hard time taking them on. And even though the grunt suits couldn't really do much when the Freedom Gundam came in, they were somewhat tough opponents in the first half of the show. It was only when SEED Destiny came in that I thought this wasn't done well at all. In Destiny, we saw both ZAFT and Terminal/Orb taking down hordes of mobile suits in an instant on a constant basis. It's okay if it's done once or a few times (and the fact that there is something out there that can rival the protagonists in power), but once it goes overboard, it gets really boring. And as for Wing... I haven't watched that series, so no comment from me on that show.

So yeah, I think that as long as it's correctly done, it should be okay. Although, of course, there'll be some who will disagree with me on this.
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Old 2007-09-03, 14:57   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Destinyblade View Post
I haven't watched G Gundam in a while, but I don't think that show had many, if any, battles that featured one Gundam taking down multiple enemies in one attack like what SEED featured.

And the shows in which they featured this were successful, so the producers probably thought it was one of the ways to make Gundam shows very successful in both ratings and in merchandising. Whether you agree with that or not is up to you, but that's probably why it's implemented in the more recent Gundam shows.

Personally, I don't think having "overpowered" or "Godly" Gundams is really that bad, as long as it's done correctly. I think Gundam SEED did this very well. In SEED, the Freedom Gundam certainly had a ridiculous number of weapons equipped to it. But when it went into battle with the enemy Gundams in the second half of the series, it didn't take them out in a flash; as a matter of fact, it had a pretty hard time taking them on. And even though the grunt suits couldn't really do much when the Freedom Gundam came in, they were somewhat tough opponents in the first half of the show. It was only when SEED Destiny came in that I thought this wasn't done well at all. In Destiny, we saw both ZAFT and Terminal/Orb taking down hordes of mobile suits in an instant on a constant basis. It's okay if it's done once or a few times (and the fact that there is something out there that can rival the protagonists in power), but once it goes overboard, it gets really boring. And as for Wing... I haven't watched that series, so no comment from me on that show.

So yeah, I think that as long as it's correctly done, it should be okay. Although, of course, there'll be some who will disagree with me on this.
Definitely agreed. Destiny was ridiculous with the godly gundams. I mean, it's hard to believe that Shinn could go into SEED mode and destroy so many ships when he's just standing still on the ships and there are so many mobile suits out. In SEED, however, Kira in the Strike actually a hard time with the grunts.
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Old 2007-09-03, 16:00   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
The very idea of numerous gundams all having mass destructing weapons is unrealistic, fake and too "super robot-ish".

And gundams shouldn't fly unless they transform into MA (Psyco) or wave fighter like Zeta.

I don't see why they don't make new series on realistic gundams anymore.

More of my rants...
They way I see it is if you take all those elements you may get a more "realistic" series but very, very, very, boring one. I like seeing Gundams that can fly and having the occasional "Wing Zero" Gundam every now and then. Don't get me wrong though, a series like MS 08th team would be closely related towards a more "realsitic" series. While that series was great in my opinion I don't see the newer series that bad either even though they have made the Gundams move faster, fly farther, and destroy more.

Yes I admit it may seem very off to see huge mechas flying and destroying everything in one single pull of a trigger but this is Gundam . . .. . it is what it is. I personally don't care so much for the technicalities and failures of the past series as much as the story being portayed well and getting to see awesome Gundam designs. If you start to see all the faliurres in the Gundams then it makes it no fun and not worth watching . . . . .

Another thing to keep in mind is things change, this world we live in gets faster and more hungry to see new stuff. I think if they kept the Gundams at a realistic level too long it would get boring too soon. People like to see new stuff and not the same old moves again and again. It goes for anything really, whether we want it to or not stuff will change for better or worse.
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Old 2007-09-03, 17:50   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Gundam Zero Force View Post
Another thing to keep in mind is things change, this world we live in gets faster and more hungry to see new stuff. I think if they kept the Gundams at a realistic level too long it would get boring too soon. People like to see new stuff and not the same old moves again and again. It goes for anything really, whether we want it to or not stuff will change for better or worse.
Yes you are right, changes can be exciting but I think gundam hasn't change from the "heroic-godly" type for so long.

And let's lay off the technological stuff from now. Another thing (rant) i have found about gundam is the pilots' age. Kira was 16 in GS and 18 in GSD, all 5 of the W pilots were 15/16. Garrod is 15 (?) Usso was literally a kid... Judau was 14! Domon, suprisingly, in one of the wackiest series was 20. The main char. in 00 is 16 i believe.

My point is, most of them aren't even old enough to legally drive a car can pilot gundams, and destroy a bunch of adults in their prime. I know some of them have super human abilities (NT, Coordinator) and their MS may be better at some point, but come on... Couldn't they just raise their age by 3-5 years at least?

I not saying I hate gundam, and that i want to pick out every failure possible. Look at it as a suggestion.
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Old 2007-09-03, 18:51   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
Yes you are right, changes can be exciting but I think gundam hasn't change from the "heroic-godly" type for so long.

And let's lay off the technological stuff from now. Another thing (rant) i have found about gundam is the pilots' age. Kira was 16 in GS and 18 in GSD, all 5 of the W pilots were 15/16. Garrod is 15 (?) Usso was literally a kid... Judau was 14! Domon, suprisingly, in one of the wackiest series was 20. The main char. in 00 is 16 i believe.

My point is, most of them aren't even old enough to legally drive a car can pilot gundams, and destroy a bunch of adults in their prime. I know some of them have super human abilities (NT, Coordinator) and their MS may be better at some point, but come on... Couldn't they just raise their age by 3-5 years at least?

I not saying I hate gundam, and that i want to pick out every failure possible. Look at it as a suggestion.
lol, yeah I get what you mean about the age deal. While in most of the series they never make a big deal out of I can't beleive half the time they are that age I mean really, the first time I saw Gundam Wing I never would have thought they were that young (until they said so). The Gundam pilos looked a lot older than 16 and very smart as well. The same goes for Seed. I don't understand why they must make them be THAT young. If they said Kira was 23 or something instead of 16 I would find that more realistic to belive by way he acted, fought, and dealt with relationships.

If you think about it, Flay most likely was the most realistic character for her age, young, naive, and scared like most 16 yr olds are when it comes to a war situation. . . . . I'm not saying people who are oung are always immature or naive but considering th circumstancs in Seed it was quite different to see all of Kira's firends (including himself) so brave and almost acting smarter or older than some of the flight crew onboard the Archangel . . . . . it is just a thought but I understand your ranting about the pilot's age . . .. it is wierd. I mean when I was 16 I was pretty stupid and ignorant, even though I am now only a few years older now I have become a lot more wise since them . . .

Ok I have to be honest here, even though I know Kira and Athrun and the Gundam Wing pilots are supposed to be 16 or whatever I think I ignore that fact and make them older than they are . . .. honestly I feel all of them should be at least 21 or older by the way they act and stuff . . .
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Old 2007-09-03, 19:43   Link #52
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Originally Posted by Gundam Zero Force View Post
Another thing to keep in mind is things change, this world we live in gets faster and more hungry to see new stuff. I think if they kept the Gundams at a realistic level too long it would get boring too soon. People like to see new stuff and not the same old moves again and again. It goes for anything really, whether we want it to or not stuff will change for better or worse.
That isn't necessarily true; at least not for educated viewers. Realistic combat can be quite entertaining, but the problem is that they are perceived as harder to write and to choreograph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamachi View Post
My point is, most of them aren't even old enough to legally drive a car can pilot gundams, and destroy a bunch of adults in their prime. I know some of them have super human abilities (NT, Coordinator) and their MS may be better at some point, but come on... Couldn't they just raise their age by 3-5 years at least?
The problem is that twofold: 1) the target audience are children; 2) it's traditional for mecha pilots to be teenagers since their shows are often coming-of-age stories.

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Ok I have to be honest here, even though I know Kira and Athrun and the Gundam Wing pilots are supposed to be 16 or whatever I think I ignore that fact and make them older than they are . . .. honestly I feel all of them should be at least 21 or older by the way they act and stuff . . .
It's quite possible (if not particularly likely) for young people to deal with highly demanding or stressful situations well. Combat is especially suited to forcing its participants to mature.
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Old 2007-09-06, 00:16   Link #53
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The only reason why gundams have to be godly because the current directors lack the ability or knowledge to make combat realistic, it is certainly easier to have a single gundam destroying dozens of grunts in one shot, than having them dodge and use cover, and taking them down one by one with tactics and strategies.

Gone were the days where they were classic fights between Amuro in RX-78-2 against Char in the Red Zaku, where Char was able to give Amuro a difficult time despite the great difference in mobile suit specs.

Yes, I said it, it all comes down to horrible directors.
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Old 2007-09-06, 04:52   Link #54
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The only reason why gundams have to be godly because the current directors lack the ability or knowledge to make combat realistic, it is certainly easier to have a single gundam destroying dozens of grunts in one shot, than having them dodge and use cover, and taking them down one by one with tactics and strategies.

Gone were the days where they were classic fights between Amuro in RX-78-2 against Char in the Red Zaku, where Char was able to give Amuro a difficult time despite the great difference in mobile suit specs.

Yes, I said it, it all comes down to horrible directors.
That's just being bias. Every series has great fights that show two suits being evenly match. Just because those fights are between two suits of almost equal specs, and not between an outmatched suit and an god suit, doesn't mean the directors sucked and can't choreograph, because they obviously can.

Besides, the only reason why Char was able to give Amuro a hard time was because his Zaku moved unnaturally fast. The fights themselves were poorly animated and were nowhere near as well-choreographed as some of the fights we have seen in the last few Gundams.
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Old 2007-09-06, 07:48   Link #55
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Besides, the only reason why Char was able to give Amuro a hard time was because his Zaku moved unnaturally fast. The fights themselves were poorly animated and were nowhere near as well-choreographed as some of the fights we have seen in the last few Gundams.
Technology does have in impact in animations these days but even tho i did find the pilots/grunts in UC more skillfull when it came to a relatively same level balance field of Hardware.

But I found the fight in Gundam seed Destiny episode 34 with kira and Shinn absolutely awesome. Fully actioned packed, full of intense strikes, blows and aggressive/defensive movements with full of suspence. I Just didnt know who was going to win, both pilots were showing great skills. To me at that time i was praising Fakuda for once, that we finally got to see a fight were Kira in Destiny was shown not to pwn an opponant in less than 2 seconds...

But it is disapointing for the rest of serie that we didnt really see a fight and choreography of this quality produced again It just returned back to single handed Godly smack downs..

But this is just my opinion and no flames intended.

Last edited by winter45; 2007-09-06 at 07:55. Reason: wrong episode information
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Old 2007-09-06, 08:00   Link #56
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I thought Strike vs. the BuCUEs was some decent combat too.

Heck, most of SEEDs best fights were with Kira in the Strike, though Freedom vs. Impulse was fun. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate it "Fairly Awesome.\0";
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Old 2007-09-06, 08:13   Link #57
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God Gundam is the only Gundam I've seen surviving alot of attacks and direct hits not having any dent on earth and space. Maybe it's been bias because of the name GOD and when in Hyper Mode it's TRULY Godly.
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Old 2007-09-06, 09:01   Link #58
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More likely because G Gundam was a "Super Robot" Gundam series.
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Old 2007-09-06, 10:14   Link #59
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Well, I never had any problem with "poor animation". I mostly stuck to watching them because of the stories. Does that make me evil?
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Old 2007-09-06, 11:32   Link #60
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I'll add on, gundams have to be godly in the later series as they have to appeal towards the younger generation. The current plots seem to require more "ownage" action and less thinking, and weapon-packed heavily armored gundams deliver the effect well.

And to those who think that animation quality is what determines the quality of the show, that is just being immature. All I can see in the CE series are just fan-service and more fan-service, nothing appealing in terms of story or character.

Zeon's technology was supposed to heavily disadvantaged against the Federation's secret weapons at the start and this was explicitly stated in the anime, yet the Zakus were still a threat and the only weaponry advantage the RX-78-2 had was the beam rifle which was severely limited in ammo. Now look at GSD Akatsuki and its grunts, the immense difference in technology is so obvious, so much that it is ridiculous.
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