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Old 2007-09-07, 01:58   Link #81
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiled one View Post
Yes, without a doubt and unintentionly, Clare murdered Jean...She was aware of the act iself but not in control of it. So yes, a murderer like Priscilla....And let us not forget that her lifestyle is very hardened. Clare was also the reason for Teresa death and she knows it.
I wouldn't call that murder for two reasons:
a) Jean was already mortally wounded, she had I don't know, couple hours left or less. You can't kill a dead man
b) Clare warned her that if she comes any closer she will cut her in half.
That's the same situation when someone is setting mine field, tells someone not to go there and he goes there anyway. Would you call him murderer?

In Priscilla's case it was premeditated murder and a low one too. She faked that she wanted to be killed, she was a cowardly, envious and conniving/scheming/tricky, definitely not stupid young woman (not child). The motive for killing Teresa was that she was more powerful than her, jealousy and pride, these were her sins. But then after a while her memories receded and she bacame a child again and now she acts all innocent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
I love Teresa's extra scene, I just dont believe it was as good as the other two.
Also, you may be painfully aware that she wasn't invincible, but alot of her other fans sure dont seem to realize that.
Show me one person on this forum that isn't aware of Teresa's death. Oh, right, there aren't any, what's the conclusion ? Everone knows that she isn't/wasn't invincible, all we're saing is that she was the strongest claymore of all time.


I think that when Priscilla unblocks her memories, she will become even more ruthless than Isley and Riful ever were (look at her behaviour just after killing Teresa). That would be interesting. Personally I'm not interested in a monster which doesn't even realise what he's doing, that's why Riful is the most interesting Awakened Being in my eyes. At the moment most of the people wouldn't like Priscilla to be the main boss, but if she "awakened", that would be different matter, I hope Raki goes his own way and it will trigger sth unwanted :] .
The organization won't be main adversary, IMO - the world with them around is scary and dangerous, but the world without them would be even worse and claymores are aware of that. Otherwise rebellion would had happend a long time ago.
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Old 2007-09-07, 04:21   Link #82
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Was a good extra scene, a little more insight into why she is like she is is good thing.

Was it just me or does her body or her arms atleast, from the way she attacked Isley, seem to be of similar construction to Rifle, ribbons and all that. Could make fighting her, and killing her a little difficult if it extends to the core parts of her body. Was also interesting the comment from Rigardo that her body seems to be just a shield for an immense amount of power, and when she is wounded it comes rushing out, I may have misinterpreted that part though. As it could be just a reference to Prisc reacting subconsciously when damaged and her powers are unleashed.
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Old 2007-09-07, 08:29   Link #83
Fenrir_valindri
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I wouldn't call that murder for two reasons:
a) Jean was already mortally wounded, she had I don't know, couple hours left or less. You can't kill a dead man
b) Clare warned her that if she comes any closer she will cut her in half.
That's the same situation when someone is setting mine field, tells someone not to go there and he goes there anyway. Would you call him murderer?

In Priscilla's case it was premeditated murder and a low one too. She faked that she wanted to be killed, she was a cowardly, envious and conniving/scheming/tricky, definitely not stupid young woman (not child). The motive for killing Teresa was that she was more powerful than her, jealousy and pride, these were her sins. But then after a while her memories receded and she bacame a child again and now she acts all innocent.
First of all, how do you know Priscilla planned it? She could have just lost control in the last minute, like Clare did with her Awakened limbs, and her Yoma half could have taken over and killed Teresa. How do we know if Priscilla the Claymore intended to kill Teresa in that moment? Especially when she was begging for death.

The truth is we cant know, and you are making an assumption.


Quote:
Show me one person on this forum that isn't aware of Teresa's death. Oh, right, there aren't any, what's the conclusion ? Everone knows that she isn't/wasn't invincible, all we're saing is that she was the strongest claymore of all time.
Everyone was aware of Teresa's death (obviously) but as you stated, everyone thinks she was, and always will be, the strongest. I take Teresa's word on Priscilla's potential, that it was scary, and it was the potential of a monster.
Your statement that she was the strongest Claymore of all time is proof enough that people would consider her undefeatable in straight up combat.

Quote:
I think that when Priscilla unblocks her memories, she will become even more ruthless than Isley and Riful ever were (look at her behaviour just after killing Teresa). That would be interesting. Personally I'm not interested in a monster which doesn't even realise what he's doing, that's why Riful is the most interesting Awakened Being in my eyes. At the moment most of the people wouldn't like Priscilla to be the main boss, but if she "awakened", that would be different matter, I hope Raki goes his own way and it will trigger sth unwanted :] .
When she first awakened she seemed like she was in some sort of drugged state, we cant really know even know if she was mocking Irene when tossing her arm back, or actually just returning "her things" to her. With her mental state, it is quite possible.

YOU may not be interested in Priscilla because of the way she is, and prefer she becomes the sterotypical Big Bad End Boss, but I personally think that is boring.

Riful is great, because she is Riful, I do not want Priscilla to turn into Riful just because it would make her a better end boss.

I have said it before but i'll state it again, how do we know Priscilla is the end boss?

Quote:
The organization won't be main adversary, IMO - the world with them around is scary and dangerous, but the world without them would be even worse and claymores are aware of that. Otherwise rebellion would had happend a long time ago.
Is it really? Were normal Yoma worse then AB? Did the populace have to drain their funds just to higher a hunter to kill a single Yoma? Did entire villages get whiped off the map by a single monster?
I would not be so quick to say the Claymore's would rebel, they are brought into the Organization at a young age, and judging by some of their attitudes, the Organization has a reasonably good indoctrination program.
The reason these people do not rebel is because they know that not everyone shares their rebellious thoughts.

and in the case of many of them, they WANT to keep killing Yoma, even if the Organization is the cause of bigger problems.
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Old 2007-09-07, 09:00   Link #84
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One thing is for sure - this story is one of the (if not THE) most beautiful work the mangaka has created for this series. The large/full page images of Rigald, Isley, and Priscilla are amazing. Priscilla's awakened form must be a b#$%^ to draw! Those wings and her face/head are so detailed... in the words of Rigald: superb!

And I personally think this is the best of the extra scenes to date. It reveals Isley's motivation for amassing the awakened beings, a subplot that has driven the main storyline since Riful's introduction - and whose fallout completely reorganized the balance of power in the Claymore world.

Great stuff.
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Old 2007-09-07, 09:54   Link #85
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To quote an idea from Soul Calibur II, Priscilla is Clare's 'Destined Battle'. They are on a crash course with each other and the only one that can get in the way of that is Raki. They are gonna have it out, one way or the other. Priscilla will be dealt with eventually but I highly doubt if anyone would say that Priscilla is the most pressing matter at hand right now in the grand scheme of things, especially with Raki keeping her content right now.
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Old 2007-09-07, 10:08   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
To quote an idea from Soul Calibur II, Priscilla is Clare's 'Destined Battle'. They are on a crash course with each other and the only one that can get in the way of that is Raki. They are gonna have it out, one way or the other. Priscilla will be dealt with eventually but I highly doubt if anyone would say that Priscilla is the most pressing matter at hand right now in the grand scheme of things, especially with Raki keeping her content right now.

And the winner takes it all!! The loser has to fall!! "Sings"

Easley will go far in his singiging career.
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Old 2007-09-07, 13:13   Link #87
Gooral
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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
First of all, how do you know Priscilla planned it? She could have just lost control in the last minute, like Clare did with her Awakened limbs, and her Yoma half could have taken over and killed Teresa. How do we know if Priscilla the Claymore intended to kill Teresa in that moment? Especially when she was begging for death.

The truth is we cant know, and you are making an assumption.
Excuse me, did we read the same manga ? Check out volume 5 page 37. Her only desire the moment she was beaten by Teresa was revenge and killing Teresa, that was her only objective, she was greatly piqued proffesional killer. All the time she was saying she would kill her, and suddenly assassin wants redemption, yeah right. Teresa's mistake was that she dealt with Pricilla like she did with Rosemary, underestimated her and believed her. See pages 52 and 53 and think again if I'm assuming things.

Priscilla: I will kill you ! I will never forgive you ! I will kill you ! ....
My papa was so kind to me, give me back my papa ! [tries to kill Teresa again with sudden attack]
<few minutes later she forgets that she wanted to kill her, lol>
Priscilla: Please, kill me while I still have a shred of humanity
[notice the strange change in font, that's not random, it obviously states she wasn't sincere and shows Teresa's naiveness and stupidity at that moment]


Quote:
Everyone was aware of Teresa's death (obviously) but as you stated, everyone thinks she was, and always will be, the strongest. I take Teresa's word on Priscilla's potential, that it was scary, and it was the potential of a monster.
Your statement that she was the strongest Claymore of all time is proof enough that people would consider her undefeatable in straight up combat.
The strongest doesn't mean invincible, decide then what you want to say.



Quote:
YOU may not be interested in Priscilla because of the way she is, and prefer she becomes the sterotypical Big Bad End Boss, but I personally think that is boring.
Riful is great, because she is Riful, I do not want Priscilla to turn into Riful just because it would make her a better end boss.
You think that's boring, but now you're excited and flustered after small demonstration and few pictures of Priscilla fighting. You're denying yourself.
All depends on how it's served. For me stupid would be redemption and forgiveness to Priscilla.
Destroying the organization would be a pointless thing to do. Anyone who would want that, should be prepared to spill claymore's blood, if that was made by AB I would understand, but by other claymores (i.e fab 7) it just doesn't seem right. Exposing to the people their real faces is another thing, but that wouldn't be too flashy.
I didn't mean to change her to Riful but the way she was just after awakening, that doesn't seem like Riful to me.



Quote:
Is it really? Were normal Yoma worse then AB? Did the populace have to drain their funds just to higher a hunter to kill a single Yoma? Did entire villages get whiped off the map by a single monster?
I would not be so quick to say the Claymore's would rebel, they are brought into the Organization at a young age, and judging by some of their attitudes, the Organization has a reasonably good indoctrination program.
The reason these people do not rebel is because they know that not everyone shares their rebellious thoughts.

and in the case of many of them, they WANT to keep killing Yoma, even if the Organization is the cause of bigger problems.
The organization had to do sth to prevent Yoma from rampaging, after they appeared Yoma had to conceal themselves and couldn't prey on humans openly anymore, hunting became harder to them. They didn't know side effects of their doings before they appeared, immediately they came up with countermeasures.
We are like organization, we make our lives easier, but pollute air and destroy nature, does it mean that all should live like Amish ?
The payment for what claymores are doing is adequate, only once we saw that they overdid when Teresa demanded double payment. I don't think anyone would prefer not paying and be eaten by yoma.
Also you're writing sth about good indoctrination program. Fab 7 and all that were in Pieta are proof of that . Alicia, Beth and Priscilla followed them only because they couldn't think by themselves (read: they were too stupid), but others are just soldiers not puppets. Even such devoted warrior as Audrey revealed confidential information to Miria.
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Old 2007-09-07, 14:02   Link #88
Fenrir_valindri
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Excuse me, did we read the same manga ? Check out volume 5 page 37. Her only desire the moment she was beaten by Teresa was revenge and killing Teresa, that was her only objective, she was greatly piqued proffesional killer. All the time she was saying she would kill her, and suddenly assassin wants redemption, yeah right. Teresa's mistake was that she dealt with Pricilla like she did with Rosemary, underestimated her and believed her. See pages 52 and 53 and think again if I'm assuming things.
So the bolded text cant just be Priscilla's warping voice? She was losing control of her own body, I would think it would be a bit hard to control how you talk during that time, let alone think clearly.

So yes, you are assuming things, and Teresa never underestimated Rosemary, she toyed with Rosemary, she knew victory was assured, and flaunted it.

Quote:
Priscilla: I will kill you ! I will never forgive you ! I will kill you ! ....
My papa was so kind to me, give me back my papa ! [tries to kill Teresa again with sudden attack]
<few minutes later she forgets that she wanted to kill her, lol>
Priscilla: Please, kill me while I still have a shred of humanity
[notice the strange change in font, that's not random, it obviously states she wasn't sincere and shows Teresa's naiveness and stupidity at that moment]
I imagine your priorities would switch pretty quickly when your own body started rebelling against you, and you started to turn into one of the things you hate the most. Above all else, Priscilla hated Yoma, and for her to be turning into one would have been her worst nightmare.



Quote:
The strongest doesn't mean invincible, decide then what you want to say.
But some people certainly seem to think it equates to that.
Thankfully you dont seem to think so, but many others do not see it that way, I think your having a hard time understanding my point here.


Quote:
You think that's boring, but now you're excited and flustered after small demonstration and few pictures of Priscilla fighting. You're denying yourself.
All depends on how it's served. For me stupid would be redemption and forgiveness to Priscilla.
You assume alot, saying that I am excited and lustered after a demonstration of Priscilla's power, glad you can read my mind and all, or think I can display my emotions that well over a bunch of text.

The only thing I am excited over is the fact that she isn't faking her madness, she really is innocent, at least as innocent as a human eating natural disaster can be.

and who the hell said anything about redemption and forgiveness?


Quote:
Destroying the organization would be a pointless thing to do. Anyone who would want that, should be prepared to spill claymore's blood, if that was made by AB I would understand, but by other claymores (i.e fab 7) it just doesn't seem right. Exposing to the people their real faces is another thing, but that wouldn't be too flashy.
Destroying the Organization and leaving a power gap would be pointless, but replacing the organization isn't. The fab 7 seem pretty determined to take their revenge on the Organization. If Miria just wanted to expose them, she could have done so long ago.


Quote:
I didn't mean to change her to Riful but the way she was just after awakening, that doesn't seem like Riful to me.
You stated you wanted Priscilla to be more vicious then Isley and Riful, I simply wanted to get the point across that it would be more boring that way. Priscilla was only ruthless when she was attacked, you notice she only defender herself, and eliminated those she consider a threat to herself.

What I has been implied is this; Priscilla is like a monstrous child, her words could very well have a double meaning, it is possible she honestly meant that Irene shouldn't leave something as important as her arm lying around.

She also did not want Irene and the others to kill her, so she defender herself instead.


Quote:
The organization had to do sth to prevent Yoma from rampaging, after they appeared Yoma had to conceal themselves and couldn't prey on humans openly anymore, hunting became harder to them. They didn't know side effects of their doings before they appeared, immediately they came up with countermeasures.
We are like organization, we make our lives easier, but pollute air and destroy nature, does it mean that all should live like Amish ?
You assume alot, why would Yoma not have hid themselves before? Humans are still capable of killing them if they just hunt in the open, thats why they can shape-shift, to conceal themselves.

and they still do prey on humans openly.

The organization's interest definitely does not coincide with making our lives easier.

Quote:
The payment for what claymores are doing is adequate, only once we saw that they overdid when Teresa demanded double payment. I don't think anyone would prefer not paying and be eaten by yoma.
Double pay is because of two Yoma, implying that each Yoma costs a large sum of money, as in the Organization is raping the poor villagers of their hard earned money, that they need to live their lives.

Of course no one would not pay, everyone wants to live, but that does not change the fact they are being robbed in broad daylight.

Quote:
Also you're writing sth about good indoctrination program. Fab 7 and all that were in Pieta are proof of that . Alicia, Beth and Priscilla followed them only because they couldn't think by themselves (read: they were too stupid), but others are just soldiers not puppets. Even such devoted warrior as Audrey revealed confidential information to Miria.
You notice how a majority of the warriors that were sent to Pieta died right?
Seems like the Organization did damn well in stomping out that potential problem, and with the profit of slowing down an AB force.

Also the 3 devout followers you mentioned were powerhouses you know. They alone would be more then enough to discourage a vast majority of people from rebelling, especially openly.

Audrey also owed the 7 Ghosts her life, and she still denied them alot of the important information they wanted, Miria only got information out of Audrey because she read her like a book. Audrey only gave information to Clare, and stated that she would be their enemies the next time they met.

Sounds like pretty decent indoctrination to me.

P.S. I love debates like this
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Old 2007-09-07, 14:05   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
First of all, how do you know Priscilla planned it? She could have just lost control in the last minute, like Clare did with her Awakened limbs, and her Yoma half could have taken over and killed Teresa. How do we know if Priscilla the Claymore intended to kill Teresa in that moment? Especially when she was begging for death.

The truth is we cant know, and you are making an assumption.



.
The way it plays out makes me think it's intentional, not instinctive. Priss didn't just lash out, she stealthily (at least that's how it looks in the manga, I don't know how it played out in the anime.) reaches forward and grabs the hilt of her sword. If she had used her claws, or been holding onto her sword to begin with, I may be tempted to belive that it was instinctually acting to preserve herself. I belive that when Priscilla told Teresa to kill her she ment it. But she then changed her mind, or rather her mind changed.
Also I belive the immediatly awakened Priss has to have a compleatly different personality from the current Priss. One does not go from "I'll slowly eat them alive." to "Why is everyone acting so scared? I'm just eating what I like." One is compleatly aware of the fact that what she's doing will kill people, and revels in it, and the other has no grasp of the deaths that will resualt, and thus cannot comprehend everyones terror.
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Old 2007-09-07, 14:05   Link #90
Gooral
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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
P.S. I love debates like this
Me too, I will try to think of sth tomorrow
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Old 2007-09-07, 15:23   Link #91
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And what's wrong with forgiving Priscilla??? Forgiveness for her is the only redemption she has left. Forgiving her doesn't excuse her from her crimes, but it does release her from the shame and guilt of those crimes. If I'm reading anime Priscilla correctly, if and when she remembers who she is and what she's done - Raki's and subsequetly Clare's forgiveness could mean a peaceful quiet passing for her or a violent, bloody death along with the deaths of those falling to kill her.

...wait a minute ...most people here want a 'violent, bloody death' for what she did to their Teresa... :sigh:

And before anyone starts on how she deserves the worst death possible, think about how much work that would take for one (ie. look what Clare's had to go through), and two, just what sort of person would that make you if you keep on insisting on exacting 'eye for an eye' on Priscilla after all these years? These questions are what I believe Clare will have to face in the future because of this.

I'm not saying she deserves to be spared from death, but she doesn't deserve all the hate from killing Teresa because that's exactly what Clare's hunting her for. Clare is not a saint for trying to kill Priscilla. She didn't start out fighting for the people in all those towns that Priscilla killed and ruined - that was just extra baggage/justification to her. All the justification she needed was that Priscilla killed Teresa - end of story. Even though she's taken on Ilene's and Ophelia's vengance and added them to her own, it still doesn't make the quest a good one. Revenge is always petty - no matter how good the reasons because you'll always end up doing to other people exactly what's been done to you and you'll end up just like the people you try and get revenge on. Who really wins in that case? If one fights for more than just revenge, then I can understand and get behind that. If you've read the manga past the Invasion of Pieta, you'll understand Miria's reasoning for fighting Clare again.

Well, that's what I think of it but I'll wait until Priscilla 'remembers' everything again, then pass 'final judgement' on her on that note.
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Old 2007-09-07, 15:49   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
And what's wrong with forgiving Priscilla??? Forgiveness for her is the only redemption she has left. Forgiving her doesn't excuse her from her crimes, but it does release her from the shame and guilt of those crimes. If I'm reading anime Priscilla correctly, if and when she remembers who she is and what she's done - Raki's and subsequetly Clare's forgiveness could mean a peaceful quiet passing for her or a violent, bloody death along with the deaths of those falling to kill her.

...wait a minute ...most people here want a 'violent, bloody death' for what she did to their Teresa... :sigh:

And before anyone starts on how she deserves the worst death possible, think about how much work that would take for one (ie. look what Clare's had to go through), and two, just what sort of person would that make you if you keep on insisting on exacting 'eye for an eye' on Priscilla after all these years? These questions are what I believe Clare will have to face in the future because of this.

I'm not saying she deserves to be spared from death, but she doesn't deserve all the hate from killing Teresa because that's exactly what Clare's hunting her for. Clare is not a saint for trying to kill Priscilla. She didn't start out fighting for the people in all those towns that Priscilla killed and ruined - that was just extra baggage/justification to her. All the justification she needed was that Priscilla killed Teresa - end of story. Even though she's taken on Ilene's and Ophelia's vengance and added them to her own, it still doesn't make the quest a good one. Revenge is always petty - no matter how good the reasons because you'll always end up doing to other people exactly what's been done to you and you'll end up just like the people you try and get revenge on. Who really wins in that case? If one fights for more than just revenge, then I can understand and get behind that. If you've read the manga past the Invasion of Pieta, you'll understand Miria's reasoning for fighting Clare again.

Well, that's what I think of it but I'll wait until Priscilla 'remembers' everything again, then pass 'final judgement' on her on that note.
Sorry, I WONT follow Claymore IF I knew Clare was going to forgive her @ the end of the series. This isn't Spiderman 3. Claymore is a tragedy, not a romantic play and forgiveness isn't one of it's strong points. Claymore is about the road to vengeance, camaraderie and suffering.

Pris DESERVES the same painful fate that led to Clare's volunteering to be a yoma in the first place, It's NOT only about what she did to Teresa. It;s the effect of Priscilla's EXISTENCE that is the heart of the series. Utter destruction of Priscilla will NOt bring back Teresa but where's the sense of justice in that if she didn't meet her demise in the end?
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Old 2007-09-07, 16:15   Link #93
Defiled one
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Originally Posted by hollywoodlou View Post
Sorry, I WONT follow Claymore IF I knew Clare was going to forgive her @ the end of the series. This isn't Spiderman 3. Claymore is a tragedy, not a romantic play and forgiveness isn't one of it's strong points. Claymore is about the road to vengeance, camaraderie and suffering.

Pris DESERVES the same painful fate that led to Clare's volunteering to be a yoma in the first place, It's NOT only about what she did to Teresa. It;s the effect of Priscilla's EXISTENCE that is the heart of the series. Utter destruction of Priscilla will NOt bring back Teresa but where's the sense of justice in that if she didn't meet her demise in the end?
Justice...Some people think death can end it all but. You kill Priscilla and then what? Who will take her place? Clare...and she wonīt be a nice person either. Donīt pretend, you know sheīs a horrible petty monster.
Justice serves to correct, not to punish. Let nature run freely, revenge wonīt bring Clare more strenght either. If sheīs lucky she might kill her, or she might kill Clare. Didnīt you people say this is a tragedy? THEN LET US SEE THAT TRAGEDY!

You want revenge for Teresa, thatīs selfish considering how much people died in more horrible ways because of Prscilla rampage but do you care? Do you even think that Priscilla must be stopped because of that? NO...You want Priscilla dead because she killed Teresa..the rest can go to hell.

You people wouldnīt nice Judges though. You have feelings while I, lost them a long time.
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Old 2007-09-07, 16:21   Link #94
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
And what's wrong with forgiving Priscilla??? Forgiveness for her is the only redemption she has left. Forgiving her doesn't excuse her from her crimes, but it does release her from the shame and guilt of those crimes. If I'm reading anime Priscilla correctly, if and when she remembers who she is and what she's done - Raki's and subsequetly Clare's forgiveness could mean a peaceful quiet passing for her or a violent, bloody death along with the deaths of those falling to kill her.

...wait a minute ...most people here want a 'violent, bloody death' for what she did to their Teresa... :sigh:

And before anyone starts on how she deserves the worst death possible, think about how much work that would take for one (ie. look what Clare's had to go through), and two, just what sort of person would that make you if you keep on insisting on exacting 'eye for an eye' on Priscilla after all these years? These questions are what I believe Clare will have to face in the future because of this.

I'm not saying she deserves to be spared from death, but she doesn't deserve all the hate from killing Teresa because that's exactly what Clare's hunting her for. Clare is not a saint for trying to kill Priscilla. She didn't start out fighting for the people in all those towns that Priscilla killed and ruined - that was just extra baggage/justification to her. All the justification she needed was that Priscilla killed Teresa - end of story. Even though she's taken on Ilene's and Ophelia's vengance and added them to her own, it still doesn't make the quest a good one. Revenge is always petty - no matter how good the reasons because you'll always end up doing to other people exactly what's been done to you and you'll end up just like the people you try and get revenge on. Who really wins in that case? If one fights for more than just revenge, then I can understand and get behind that. If you've read the manga past the Invasion of Pieta, you'll understand Miria's reasoning for fighting Clare again.

Well, that's what I think of it but I'll wait until Priscilla 'remembers' everything again, then pass 'final judgement' on her on that note.
Are Clare's motivations that important to determining if her quest is a good one? Does the lack of purity in her motives make Priscilla's continued existence any less of a blight?

Clare's shown herself consistently willing to go out of her way to save people, so I don't buy the claims that her quest for vengeance dehumanized her. And no, I don't attribute to Raki the credit for her compassionate nature. The only thing he did was recognize it, but it was there before he came around, and after he left.

So what if Clare's moved by vengeance? Priscilla deserves to die, and Clare isn't turning into the monster she's fighting (though there have been a few close calls). That's what matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiled one View Post
Justice...Some people think death can end it all but. You kill Priscilla and then what? Who will take her place? Clare...and she wonīt be a nice person either. Donīt pretend, you know sheīs a horrible petty monster.
That's daft. Why would anyone take Priscilla's place? There isn't a fixed number of Awakened Ones, you know...

Quote:
Justice serves to correct, not to punish.
Justice has many purposes. And what alternative do you propose?

Quote:
Let nature run freely,
Not when it's killing us, let's not. Is that your favorite course of action? It's nature at work, let's let Priscilla eat our guts!?


Quote:
revenge wonīt bring Clare more strenght either. If sheīs lucky she might kill her, or she might kill Clare. Didnīt you people say this is a tragedy? THEN LET US SEE THAT TRAGEDY!

You want revenge for Teresa, thatīs selfish considering how much people died in more horrible ways because of Prscilla rampage but do you care?
I do. Do you?

Quote:
Do you even think that Priscilla must be stopped because of that?
I do. By the way, where did Hollywoodlou say otherwise? Are you having fun fighting a straw man?

Quote:
NO...You want Priscilla dead because she killed Teresa..the rest can go to hell.

You people wouldnīt nice Judges though. You have feelings while I, lost them a long time.
What do you mean?
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Old 2007-09-07, 16:26   Link #95
Fenrir_valindri
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Join Date: Apr 2007
I never really agreed with Priscilla being forgiven by the end of the series, although Priscilla herself may desire it near the end.

I personally think she is just incapable of being killed now. It might be possible that Clare finds that, no matter what she does, Priscilla is just beyond her ability to kill.

Claymore is a shounen above all else, and that means themes such as forgivness are not impossible, and themes of tragedy do not automatically make forgiveness impossible, but by the end of the series, I think either Priscilla will be dead, or Clare will be.

Now that would be a tragic ending.

Edit: I find myself agreeing, somewhat, with Defiled one.
Clare's quest, like it or not, is one of simple petty revenge, Priscilla is indeed a monster, and it sure would be nice if she did not stay around to kill people, but then again it would be real nice if natural disasters stopped killing people too. (yeah yeah I am sure you guys will pick that apart.)


To Negativedark: That is kind of what I ment about instinctual, I was refering to her Yoma half, but I suppose I was not to clear on that >.< thanks for helping me clear that up.
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Old 2007-09-07, 16:26   Link #96
Hamstadini
Raki/Claire fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern California
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywoodlou View Post
Sorry, I WONT follow Claymore IF I knew Clare was going to forgive her @ the end of the series. This isn't Spiderman 3. Claymore is a tragedy, not a romantic play and forgiveness isn't one of it's strong points. Claymore is about the road to vengeance, camaraderie and suffering.

Pris DESERVES the same painful fate that led to Clare's volunteering to be a yoma in the first place, It's NOT only about what she did to Teresa. It;s the effect of Priscilla's EXISTENCE that is the heart of the series. Utter destruction of Priscilla will NOt bring back Teresa but where's the sense of justice in that if she didn't meet her demise in the end?
Translation: WE WANTS BLOOD! *Grabs nearest virgin sacrifice and rips out a big chunk of her jugular vein with his teeth*
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Old 2007-09-07, 16:32   Link #97
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamstadini View Post
Translation: WE WANTS BLOOD! *Grabs nearest virgin sacrifice and rips out a big chunk of her jugular vein with his teeth*
Translation: we want loli! *Grabs the nearest hundreds of random people to feed the loli*

Are you sure you want to make it a fight of caricatures?
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Old 2007-09-07, 16:34   Link #98
Fenrir_valindri
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Still not seeing Priscilla as a Loli, Riful/Miata are the only Loli's I really acknowledge in Claymore

Edit:
To respond to hollywoodlou;

Priscilla is actually living quite the painful life right now, she is suffering in the fact she is mentally a child searching for a family she will never find, and now she is being used as a tool by one of the most powerful creatures around, despite the fact she herself is much stronger.

Priscilla is now basically a child that has no sense of direction, no sense of purpose other then to find her lost family.

Her living is actually much more painful then anything Clare could probably do to her.
and I am not too sure if Teresa would approve of Clare's quest now either.
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Old 2007-09-07, 16:39   Link #99
Hamstadini
Raki/Claire fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern California
@ Anh Minh: I'm not a loli lover. I'd rather have legal, thanks... and you have done nothing to disprove my point that people who want Priscilla dead are violent bloodthirsty berserkers.

@ Fenir: You're forgetting Loli!Claire, everyone's favorite Teresa partner. :eyeroll:
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Old 2007-09-07, 16:40   Link #100
Fenrir_valindri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamstadini View Post
@ Fenir: You're forgetting Loli!Claire, everyone's favorite Teresa partner. :eyeroll:
Crap, your right, but she grew up
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