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View Poll Results: Lucky Star - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 41 36.28%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 47 41.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 11.50%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 7.96%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.88%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.88%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.88%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-09-12, 08:42   Link #81
kevin13
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post


Actually, if you ask me, Patty has been been appreciating anime since before going to Japan. Of course, Konata had a large influence in her otakuness, that I can tell. But I wouldn't think that Konata forced her into otakudom because of her wide acceptance of the otaku lifestyle. Well, that could be just a theory, of course, but her level of otakuness isn't something you can achieve in just a couple of months, right?
Wrong. dfjhd
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Old 2007-09-12, 09:10   Link #82
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Okay, that was a discussion-inducing response. But I'll leave it at that.
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Old 2007-09-12, 09:27   Link #83
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Sasu ga AVPlaya-san desu ne! ( Hopefully I'm not embarrassing myself in here. ) Thanks for giving us a little insight on that. Even after Ascaloth cleared that up, I still didn't get the meaning of the joke completely. And yes, I don't have a lot of experience with cup-ramen, since all of the ones I eat are the simple, Wal-mart-type ones. Pretty lame, but that's more of a "emergency" ration for me than a real meal. But I'm pretty amazed that Ramen is so complicated to make. But well, at least now I can make some sense out of that scene.
Oh god...you eat the Maruchan / American Nissin blocks of death? I would sooner burn one than eat one of those. Instant noodles is one thing that America does worse than South Asia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Well, if you ask me, I wouldn't consider Lucky*Star to ever have fillers. Fillers normally happen when the anime deviates away from its original storyline... but since L*S has little to no storyline at all, I don't think the term "filler" applies. Perhaps "original" anime stories or something of the sort?
It's either no filler or all filler. The thing is we have absolutely no idea what the author would come up with from one month to the next.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Actually, if you ask me, Patty has been been appreciating anime since before going to Japan. Of course, Konata had a large influence in her otakuness, that I can tell. But I wouldn't think that Konata forced her into otakudom because of her wide acceptance of the otaku lifestyle. Well, that could be just a theory, of course, but her level of otakuness isn't something you can achieve in just a couple of months, right?
So tell me...why else would an American come to Japan knowing how to speak Japanese, albeit with an accent?

I'm pretty sure Patty's been watching classic anime (Love Hina, Azumanga Daioh, Haruhi, etc.) dub-style with some subs until Konata taught her everything else. She's one of those non-Asian anime fans who know the basics of anime (sailor fuku, yuri, sushi, and ramen) but no better (not Shinto nor 2channel, etc.).
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Old 2007-09-12, 09:59   Link #84
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That's all very interesting. I've eaten the same cup noodles, but I've never messed it up before. We don't have that hot water dispenser, so we only heat water just when we're about to eat. Never had to worry about running out that way.
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Old 2007-09-12, 10:22   Link #85
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So tell me...why else would an American come to Japan knowing how to speak Japanese, albeit with an accent?

I'm pretty sure Patty's been watching classic anime (Love Hina, Azumanga Daioh, Haruhi, etc.) dub-style with some subs until Konata taught her everything else. She's one of those non-Asian anime fans who know the basics of anime (sailor fuku, yuri, sushi, and ramen) but no better (not Shinto nor 2channel, etc.).
Think of Patty as a moé version of Chipp from Guilty Gear and Sodom from Final Fight + Street Fighter Alpha.

They are americans who loves japan a bit too much.

Patty can be seen as a satire of japanophile foreigners.
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Old 2007-09-12, 10:27   Link #86
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Well, if you ask me, I wouldn't consider Lucky*Star to ever have fillers. Fillers normally happen when the anime deviates away from its original storyline... but since L*S has little to no storyline at all, I don't think the term "filler" applies. Perhaps "original" anime stories or something of the sort?
Yeah...that's much better term than fillers ughh...Naruto.

Maybe the Light Novel will be animated after this 2 final eps? Maybe...yet again XD
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Old 2007-09-12, 11:29   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Think of Patty as a moé version of Chipp from Guilty Gear and Sodom from Final Fight + Street Fighter Alpha.

They are americans who loves japan a bit too much.

Patty can be seen as a satire of japanophile foreigners.
Perhaps we ought to have Patty as ASuki's mascot for their daily "rush" in the Saimoe tournament now going on, to symbolize all them "wacky gaijin otas" who supposedly know "too much" about Japan's "culture".
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Old 2007-09-12, 11:40   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Think of Patty as a moé version of Chipp from Guilty Gear and Sodom from Final Fight + Street Fighter Alpha.

They are americans who loves japan a bit too much.

Patty can be seen as a satire of japanophile foreigners.
Don't you mean "Katana". A football costumed Samurai wannabe from America who wants to become......oh god how did they even put it in the mangled translation. The whole character idea was strange. I liked how he misprounces Kamikaze in his ending though, but I could never be sure if it was an on purpose mispronounciation or Capcom just messed things up.

I get the feeling I've seen a Patty type character in another anime before.

Also I think we also have to be fair as well as how Japanese anime has portrayed American Culture and Mannerisms in the the past as well though. It's a two way relationship. I can't get over how in so many animes I've seen, American characters are portrayed as buff, loud, materialistic, rude and culturally insensitive types.
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Old 2007-09-12, 11:52   Link #89
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Sarah Adiemus from Sukuran? and the blond girl from Ai Aoiyori something...forgot the title that stayed to much inJapan she almost forgot to speak in english.
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Old 2007-09-12, 13:12   Link #90
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Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
Sarah Adiemus from Sukuran? and the blond girl from Ai Aoiyori something...forgot the title that stayed to much inJapan she almost forgot to speak in english.
Well, Anna Coppola from Ichimashi doesn't even speak English at all, despite being Born in England. She's not an otaku, but gaijin who knows more about Japan than your average Japanese is not unusual anymore. They're on TV everyday. There are a lot of kids like Anna Tsuchiya who looked very gaijin but can't speak English to save their live. I think what makes Patty unusual is that ordinary Japanese still have problem adjusting to the gaijin ota. Most Japanese would stereotype the shiroi gaijin as being "cooler" than the Japanese, so seeing the otaku-gaijin is an unholy mixing of two opposite stereotypes that just doesn't compute. I think the respect the outsiders paid to the otaku culture has a lot of do with the rise of the otaku status in the recent years. Soon maybe things will turn around for the Japanese otaku, that the intimate knowledge of moe-types and the ability to perform ota-gei would be considered gakkoi. And everyone of us gaiin-tachi reading this forum rignt now is contributing to it.

So in my mind, Go Patty!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Power J View Post
That's all very interesting. I've eaten the same cup noodles, but I've never messed it up before. We don't have that hot water dispenser, so we only heat water just when we're about to eat. Never had to worry about running out that way.
Well, almost every single Japanese family will need two item to call a house a home: a rice cooker and a hot water dispenser. Actually that's true for almost all East Asian families. You need a rice cooker to eat, and you need the water bottle for tea and instant noodles. That's the first thing you buy when you move to a new place - I've helped my shares of newbies and FOBs to get started with life in the US, and the first things they all want to get are these two items (if they didn't bring their own already!) Since everyone has one, getting fooled by the water-level meter is a regular event in most families. Unless we want to do the full ramen deal where we cook the noodle in a pot with veggies and other goodies, we'd have to fight with the water bottle every time. In my household, we eat instant noodles as nightly snacks (I think my wife is addicted), so we understand this drama very well.


Remember kids, when you want a rice cooker or hot water dispenser/bottle, always get Zojirushi. Tiger and other brands maybe cheaper or claim to have more features, but no brand beat the Zojirushi in term of quality.

Last edited by AVPlaya; 2007-09-12 at 13:26.
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Old 2007-09-12, 13:30   Link #91
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wait a minute...

So Sodom/Katana from Final Fight/ SF Alpha Series(that was beaten the hell out of Guy) can be compared to her attitude in a sense... XD

Either way she's one with the OUTLAWS!!! New team outlaw Konata, Patty and Hiyorin.
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Old 2007-09-12, 13:32   Link #92
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...Patty can be seen as a satire of japanophile foreigners.
But it's a very loving satire. Impossible to take offense. Patty is somewhat excessive, but quite sweet and quite capable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVPlaya
I knew Gotoh-sama can do a cold-blooded killer... Her yankee-ness just feels so... real...
I'm so glad that she got her wish to play a tougher character, more like her real self. And that "yankee-ness" may be come by honestly. After Anime Expo, she spent at least a couple of weeks in the US. And before she became a seiyuu, she was in college studying to become an English translator. I think she loves America and sees herself riding her motorcycle from biker bar to biker bar across the Southwest.
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Old 2007-09-12, 13:40   Link #93
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I'm so glad that she got her wish to play a tougher character, more like her real self. And that "yankee-ness" may be come by honestly. After Anime Expo, she spent at least a couple of weeks in the US. And before she became a seiyuu, she was in college studying to become an English translator. I think she loves America and sees herself riding her motorcycle from biker bar to biker bar across the Southwest.
But she seemed so bubbly (and kinda fake) in Suzumiya Haruhi no Gekisou; an act for the otageishi perhaps?

I can totally see her do an Easy Rider thing across the West... oh that would be so hot...
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Old 2007-09-12, 14:32   Link #94
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
But it's a very loving satire. Impossible to take offense. Patty is somewhat excessive, but quite sweet and quite capable.
Agreed, compared to many satirical comedic renditions of "americans", Patty comes off much more realistically. Earnest if a little clueless about the real position of anime's location in japanese culture.

I'll second AVPlaya's recommendation on Zojirushi for modern gear ... though I'm still a fan of the basic non-computerized one-switch (uses a pressure sensor) rice cooker. We've had ours for about 29 years (it was a marriage present from wife's grandfather).
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Old 2007-09-12, 14:36   Link #95
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Quote:
Well, Anna Coppola from Ichimashi doesn't even speak English at all, despite being Born in England. She's not an otaku, but gaijin who knows more about Japan than your average Japanese is not unusual anymore. They're on TV everyday. There are a lot of kids like Anna Tsuchiya who looked very gaijin but can't speak English to save their live. I think what makes Patty unusual is that ordinary Japanese still have problem adjusting to the gaijin ota. Most Japanese would stereotype the shiroi gaijin as being "cooler" than the Japanese, so seeing the otaku-gaijin is an unholy mixing of two opposite stereotypes that just doesn't compute. I think the respect the outsiders paid to the otaku culture has a lot of do with the rise of the otaku status in the recent years. Soon maybe things will turn around for the Japanese otaku, that the intimate knowledge of moe-types and the ability to perform ota-gei would be considered gakkoi. And everyone of us gaiin-tachi reading this forum rignt now is contributing to it.

So in my mind, Go Patty!
Funny you brought this up, because I was planning on asking it at the Japanese Culture topic in the Off-Topic section. I understand that, for the sake of the story, Kona and Patty became friends, or at least partners, quite quickly, even if Patty is a gaijin-otaku. But, in general, how are foreign otaku seen inside the amazing Japanese otaku circle? Obviously, I'd say that we are, at the very least, seen as posers and dishonorable bastards who can't appreciate the true meaning of Anime. ( Obviously, a rough and overly general statement by my part. I'm pretty sure that your average Japanese won't be bothered that much by foreigners and their anime addiction. )

But what do you mean by "cooler"? That just because we're not japanese we're allowed to express outselves in an otaku way more openly than the japanese do? In my opinion, that would be a huge misconception... I mean, Anime is mainstream in Japan. Not only anime, but light novels and manga... You can find them everywhere, including ads, and they take many, many forms and shapes and speak to a very diverse audience. From small children to the older folks, the part of the Japanese culture that hovers around anime has something for them all. Which is not the case in most places here in the west. What does your average high-schooler think when you mention anime? Pokemon, DBZ and, with a bit of luck, Yu-Gi-Oh. Because of that, there's a very high degree of stereotypical response to the ones of us that "go public".

Of course, you could probably say that we're more aware of diversity and that our responses aren't histerical... but I'd say we win in the amount of negative responses we receive for being how we are.

One of the things that Patty's presence in Lucky*Star makes me grateful to the authors is that it probably gives the idea that we're all brothers in otakudom, Japanese and foreigners alike.

Edit: I feel a bit inexperienced whenever I'm around Vexx, AVPlaya and some of the other grown-ups around. Kind of makes me wanna erase my comments and see what they say first every time
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Old 2007-09-12, 15:18   Link #96
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Funny you brought this up, because I was planning on asking it at the Japanese Culture topic in the Off-Topic section. I understand that, for the sake of the story, Kona and Patty became friends, or at least partners, quite quickly, even if Patty is a gaijin-otaku. But, in general, how are foreign otaku seen inside the amazing Japanese otaku circle? Obviously, I'd say that we are, at the very least, seen as posers and dishonorable bastards who can't appreciate the true meaning of Anime. ( Obviously, a rough and overly general statement by my part. I'm pretty sure that your average Japanese won't be bothered that much by foreigners and their anime addiction. )
Hmm, I'm sure actual J-otas like Kj1980-dono can answer better, but from what I read in 2ch and other blogs, there seemed to be two distinct reactions: One is that of amazement, that an outcast subculture can be so widely accepted in the Western world they believe to be to have racist or outdated notions about Japanese or Asian cultures (yes, even they know Hollywood movies are racist). They understand that a few gaijin in Japan can enjoy the real Japan, but masses of gaijin boys and girls obsessing the same 2-D entertainment they need to hide from the Japanese public? Some of them are fascinated and felt proud of that fact. Deep inside otakus always loved their culture, but the gaijin-otas gave them validations that their obession isn't abnormal; it's actually something they could be proud of.

In another hands, there are right-wing leaning "purists" who doesn't believe gaijins will ever GET their anime culture and they fear that outside demand will corrupt the status quo. I think even many anime creators fear the same; that anime will be made to cater to the "Western clientèle" and forsake the J-otas. As you know, the value systems in the West sometimes conflict with the very Japanese otaku culture in term of sex and violence. With works like Afro Samurai I think they have reason to fear. They don't want the "prudish and violent" gaijins to "Hollywood-ize" anime and change its Japanese core. They also believe the ousiders will ever get the real otaku spirit. You can see a lot of this type of reaction in this year's Saimoe tournament.

I think overall, from almost a 3rd party perspective, that the gaijin anime fans has shown a great deal of respect toward Japanese and otaku culture. I don't think any true anime fan who wanted to change the original culture, but rather I see a lot more trying to understand and even participate in it. I believe a lot of the Japanese otakus saw these efforts and appreciate them, so you'll have English-speaking otas like kj1980-dono here in anisuki trying to help folks out. The aformentioned "fear" is a natural extention of the more Hikkomori-like otakus distrust of outside world. Some of these guys can't even talk to people in their own household, what do you think their opinion of gajins half a world away would be? If you read 2ch enough you'll know that the otakus have far more worse things to say about other Asians than the gaijin-otas who tried to support their art-form. I think overall impression is that, gaijin-otas are cool as long as they don't start demanding change or be act in a rude manner (gaijin stereotype here).



Quote:
But what do you mean by "cooler"? That just because we're not japanese we're allowed to express outselves in an otaku way more openly than the japanese do? In my opinion, that would be a huge misconception... I mean, Anime is mainstream in Japan. Not only anime, but light novels and manga..

2 things here... 1. Anime is NOT mainstream in Japan. Some anime are accepted in the mainstream, like Miyazaki films and some TV anime like Sazae-san or Chibi Maruko-chan, but if you say you're an adult who watched anime late at night, people will laugh at you. For most poeople, anime is children's entertainment. Manga, on the other-hand, is mainstream. Everyone reads manga, and that's not a taboo. Strange to you, but perfectly reasonable to the Japanese. Light Novels are okay for young people to read, but again, if you're an adult you should be reading "The White Tower" and not "Shakugan no Shana".

2. What I meant by "cool" is a general stereotype from the average Japanese about a random Westerner. Japanese in general have a fairly good opinion of white folks visiting their country (other skin colors are another story). Some people, especially young girls, think most if not all white people have "better" tastes in term of music, art, etc due to the very limited view of Western culture they get in Japan. Of course this is all a huge stereotype and most people who actually knew gaijins knows that's just not true. But for a country girl from Takeshima, it's close enough. Same goes with foreign countries in general, especially European countries. Most Japanese girls think Paris is this magical land of love; in so much that some who actually visited Paris needed hospitalization or mental counseling because the real Paris is so far below their expectations (true story). So this "gaijin coolness" is nothing but a positive stereotype of the masses of Japanese who has never seen or knew a real gaijin, but as Japan becomes more open, that too will change.


Quote:
One of the things that Patty's presence in Lucky*Star makes me grateful to the authors is that it probably gives the idea that we're all brothers in otakudom, Japanese and foreigners alike.
Another thing about Patty which most of you probably missed is this deep desire to see gaijin (especially gaijin girls) appreciate real Japanese culture. Underground or not, otaku culture is genuinely Japanese. Often thought of being discriminated against in the world, the Japanese love to see outsiders really enjoying their culture instead of critiquing it or trying to change it. The number one favorite thing for a non-otaku gaijin expat to do in Japan is to bitch about Japan. Frankly I see WAY less ignorant or even racist bitching from the gaijin otas in Japan. I think the otakus sees that too, and Patty is their mental ideal of the "perfect gaijin-sama"; meaning, the gaijin-otas are much less ignorant and racist than the non-ota gaijins whose knowledge about Japan came from the Western mass-media. Thus they are welcomed more in Japan. I'm sure every single otaku in Japan would love to see more Patties visiting Japan. Yeah the big boobies helped too. ^^;

Last edited by AVPlaya; 2007-09-12 at 15:32.
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Old 2007-09-12, 15:52   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
One of the things that Patty's presence in Lucky*Star makes me grateful to the authors is that it probably gives the idea that we're all brothers in otakudom, Japanese and foreigners alike.
I really hope this dream can become true one day ^^


I understand the fear of Japanese otakus (Holliwoodized anime would suck so bad), but I think no gaijin otaku likes that idea, so it shouldn't be a real problem to begin with.


My really humble opinion is that otaku culture should be like a bridge connecting worlds.... it should be seen not as a fear, but as a chance.

From a gaijin point of view, first you like manga or anime, then you are fascinated by them, and you want to learn more about the culture that lies behind.... learning other people's culture, traditions, common life-style etc leads to mutual understanding and respect (usually).

From a japanese otaku point of view, well I can only speculate, but I imagine that being in contact with western fellow otakus could be a chance to start forgetting old sterotypes and misunderstandings...
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Old 2007-09-12, 16:07   Link #98
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Hm nothing much about this episode that attracts me unlike episode 22 >> 7/10

Less Tsukasa scenes in this episode...and additional Minami scenes as a replacement for it...not like i'm unhappy for it,but maybe becoz i'm too used to Tsukasa's appearance as the main character from episode 1 until 22,in this episode was more like she became a side character,while those other side characters (those from year 1 class) replace her position as the main characters for this episode.

Other than that,everything seems ok for me..Minami was given the most priority for this episode,followed by Misao,Ayano,Patricia and Tamura.

After hiding it for about 9 episodes,finally Minami's big secret was revealed in front of the other girls..it was funny though to see her reaction at the moment Konata pointed her secret out to the others.

As for the Lucky Channel,i'd say the worst of all...well i didn't really expect anything much from it since episode 21...just that i wonder who gonna fill in the "guest star" position for the final episode of Lucky Channel..Ono Daisuke had made his appearance as a guest star for 3 episodes i think,while Yuko Goto made it for this episode.I think,probably the last one would be..someone from Haruhi too i guess,considering the fact that both Ono Daisuke and Yuko Goto are the seiyuu for both Koizumi and Asahina...and also Shiraishi himself as Taniguchi.Probably Minori Chihara? XP
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Old 2007-09-12, 16:08   Link #99
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Originally Posted by Claymore_Obsessed View Post
I really hope this dream can become true one day ^^


I understand the fear of Japanese otakus (Holliwoodized anime would suck so bad), but I think no gaijin otaku likes that idea, so it shouldn't be a real problem to begin with.
Just because gaijin otakus loath the idea of Hollywood anime doesn't mean some decider somewhere won't go "hey, there's a market in the West! Westerners like Hollywood movies, so let's change our anime to fit those tastes! It can't go wrong!".
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Old 2007-09-12, 16:17   Link #100
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The fact that manga is so widespread in Japan compared to most anime being limited to ota's is intriguing. It's the complete opposite of how it is in the States, where anime is a lot more widespread in fandom than manga from my experience at least. Now I don't have any empirical evidence to back that up, just from the friends I have that watch anime and what I've picked up on from the net. I'm sure it has to do a lot with the way comic books are significantly more stigmatized in the States compared to animation. "Nerds" read comic books, but everyone watched Disney when they were growing up. And especially now, where companies like Pixar have pushed a form of animation to a more adult level (see Shrek), I can see American culture being more accepting of anime over manga.

As to the split amongs Japanese otas as to whether to shun or accept gaijin-otas, it's pretty typical in a group of that size. You are going to have your extremist types on both sides if you get a sample size large enough. The fact that they are somewhat shunned by the mainstream culture and would theoretically sympathize with an even slimmer minority of gaijin-otas doesn't seem to have a huge impact on the population. However, I hope anime/manga like Lucky Star and characters such as Patty can convey a more positive image of gaijin-otas to the Japanese otas.

All in all this kind sociological/political analysis is the reason I chose my college majors, and it's quite interesting. Add that to the fact that the Japanese PM resigned yesterday and I have plenty of interesting research to come~
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