AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Claymore

Notices

View Poll Results: Claymore - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 74 30.96%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 51 21.34%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 46 19.25%
7 out of 10 : Good 27 11.30%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 2.51%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 12 5.02%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 1.67%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.42%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.42%
1 out of 10 : Painful 17 7.11%
Voters: 239. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-09-10, 13:40   Link #481
Gooral
Firefly/Serenity fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 28
Another person who writes with sense. I also read what You wrote in Extra Chapter 3 discussion (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=137), I totally agree.
Gooral is offline  
Old 2007-09-10, 14:39   Link #482
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Reality View Post
Humans aren't shown to suffer for the Organization's actions -- the social maladjustment and harsh treatment of Claymores take first priority. Nor are we really shown just how humans make a living when Claymores aren't around. In fact, it seems their only purpose is to idle in town squares and then gape at the freak show that wanders into town. Don't these people have day jobs? Shouldn't we see more bustle and less talk? You know, laborers and merchants and people in a hurry? Remember the two kids that stood around the statues of Theresa and Clare? I mean really, is a harsh medieval society really supposed to have a concept of "childhood"? Or shouldn't these kids at least be working around heavy machinery, coal mines, tending the fields/orchard/shop, be in school, working at an apprenticeship or *something*?
I think they're training to be those guys who say "the Fire Cavern is to the East!" repeatedly to every traveler.
Anh_Minh is offline  
Old 2007-09-10, 21:17   Link #483
Twisted Reality
Is Neither Goth Nor Emo
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
It's not that strange that bandits knew immediately that youma were exterminated. They could have there their man, not necessarily as a villager but as a wanderer staying in the inn just like Claymores. Or seeing returning Teresa was enough for them. They had they camp not far away from their target after all.
Also don't measure bandits in human measurement, rational thinking isn't blackguard's strong point. They wanted to rape, burn and kill, it provided them adrenaline, also they didn't kill woman, only villagers. Burning can be explained logically too, they wanted villagers to be occupied in extinguishing fire not fighting them. Last but not least killing everyone who would want revenge is a smart thing to do.
"That looks a lot more convincing than the Refugees behaving against all logic and knowing things they shouldn't." - Riful
Riful, as always You write only smart things, very often things that others missed. If anyone on this forum talks with sense it's You for sure.
As I said above:
The how isn't really so important as the why. We can rationalize all these little gaping discontinuities or handwave them somehow. But the general point is that it still undermines believability in the reality presented on-screen. In this case, the human world suffers at the expense of the Claymore's microcosm.

And frankly, having flat bandits are simply boring. You can say they *aren't* human, but where's the fun in that? Claymore is a story about humanity and how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

For example, we can write an interesting story for the bandit leader. Where did he get that falcon sword? Why did he become a bandit? How does he rationalize what he does? What are his goals? Why *doesn't* he want to become a lord and live off the fat of the land? He sure bullies the others into something resembling a warlord. Indeed, his story would also bring out a little bit of the detail involving the generic mountain village -- which makes it a distinct location instead of generic quaint town #450.

And this could make him sympathizable, despicable or both. In any case, it would get a stronger reaction from the audience. And that's *good.* The author doesn't do this though. And despite what you may say, it still hurts the believability of the world. The sense of "completeness" of the world. And even if we don't have the time to go into a long flashback sequence, you can still make his behavior consistent with that backstory. (It's a common story after all: a hungry peasant turns to the predatory life of a bandit to make ends meet. He's insecure enough that he has to rule by strength -- just a way to cover up his own mortal vulnerabilities and doubts.)

And yes, the inside-man idea occured to me. But why haven't the peasants noticed an outsider hanging around? It's a village where everybody knows everybody. Even traders are so uncommon that there are probably the same "regular customers." Well maybe they're very subtle bandits, you know, except they murder, rape and pillage.

We can provide endless ideas and rationalizations, arguments and counter-arguments. It still doesn't change the fact that the author didn't bother fleshing these details out. That creates a jarring hole in the story that tests our suspension of disbelief and makes the world seem flatter.

Or to put it simply: The bandits are a plot device.
__________________
There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

Big List of Anime Tropes
Flame Warriors Roster

Last edited by Twisted Reality; 2007-09-10 at 21:59.
Twisted Reality is offline  
Old 2007-09-10, 22:31   Link #484
PonSquared
A Very Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sullivan County, NY
Age: 39
I finally watched it.

My fiancee (who is Japanese) liked it but kept shouting out "Raki iranaiii yooo..." It was so funny. God I love her. Haha.

I gave it a 7/10. While it wasent as good as the manga it was, in and of itself, a good episode of anime.
PonSquared is offline  
Old 2007-09-10, 23:10   Link #485
redmeat
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
There's no point in applying rationality to Claymore. It's just a fantasy manga. Yagi, in making the storyline, probably just randomly slapped a bunch of characters together, stringed them with related events, and dipped them in a sauce of humanity, and voila, an interesting story! He had main themes in mind but probably could care less about the details or rationality.
redmeat is offline  
Old 2007-09-11, 00:32   Link #486
Twisted Reality
Is Neither Goth Nor Emo
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by redmeat View Post
There's no point in applying rationality to Claymore. It's just a fantasy manga. Yagi, in making the storyline, probably just randomly slapped a bunch of characters together, stringed them with related events, and dipped them in a sauce of humanity, and voila, an interesting story! He had main themes in mind but probably could care less about the details or rationality.
Yes, shame on me for expecting Yagi to not skimp on the humanity sauce. Why criticize? It's just stupid humanity sauce.
__________________
There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

Big List of Anime Tropes
Flame Warriors Roster
Twisted Reality is offline  
Old 2007-09-11, 03:24   Link #487
MooMooFarm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Thanks to the decision Claymore made in turning the faithful series into less then stellar, I've actually started reading manga for other animes I was interested. It paid off with Eyeshield 21, as the anime so far ( up to episode 4 ) is fugly compared to the manga, and the voice actors aren't really living up to the standards. Claymore is miles ahead in this category though like most animes, so I'll still watch and it's somewhat interesting to see what ending they will come up with.
MooMooFarm is offline  
Old 2007-09-11, 06:24   Link #488
Kazidoom
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Reality View Post
Yes, shame on me for expecting Yagi to not skimp on the humanity sauce. Why criticize? It's just stupid humanity sauce.
I think you're expecting a little too much from a shonen.
Kazidoom is offline  
Old 2007-09-11, 14:39   Link #489
Claymore_Obsessed
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by redmeat View Post
There's no point in applying rationality to Claymore. It's just a fantasy manga. Yagi, in making the storyline, probably just randomly slapped a bunch of characters together, stringed them with related events, and dipped them in a sauce of humanity, and voila, an interesting story! He had main themes in mind but probably could care less about the details or rationality.
we could apply the same to every writer including Shakespeare, just change "fantasy manga" to "fantasy novel"
__________________
Claymore_Obsessed is offline  
Old 2007-09-11, 15:43   Link #490
Ejinathan
pro lumberjack
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Age: 28
Why do i get the feeling Clare will become a horse or an unicorn ... She will prolly not be able to to return human if we listen to the claymore theory. They could as good made her supersaiyen and let her launch a huge kameha wave! Anyway its still beautifull put up the episode. They are good at winter effect and snow itself.
Ejinathan is offline  
Old 2007-09-11, 16:31   Link #491
Seska
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejinathan View Post
Why do i get the feeling Clare will become a horse or an unicorn ... She will prolly not be able to to return human if we listen to the claymore theory. They could as good made her supersaiyen and let her launch a huge kameha wave! Anyway its still beautifull put up the episode. They are good at winter effect and snow itself.
Warning, this is only my own Speculation about Clare...

[speculate ON]
Spoiler for To make it clearly, thats only my Speculation....:

[Speculate OFF]

Bingo!!!...

With this now knowing, it can be very interesting in the end...
Seska is offline  
Old 2007-09-11, 22:04   Link #492
Bikerider
Senior Rider of Bikes
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
That's the reason the Organisation frets about Clare's "intangibles"
Bikerider is offline  
Old 2007-09-11, 22:14   Link #493
Twisted Reality
Is Neither Goth Nor Emo
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seska View Post
Warning, this is only my own Speculation about Clare...

[speculate ON]
Spoiler for To make it clearly, thats only my Speculation....:

[Speculate OFF]

Bingo!!!...

With this now knowing, it can be very interesting in the end...
Uhh. . .Clare is a seed for Theresa to be reborn? And as it turns out, the real bad guy is actually Theresa? And the Organization was really just a very convoluted scheme to get Clare willingly implanted with Theresa's flesh? And uhh. . .the Abyssals are somehow connected?
__________________
There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

Big List of Anime Tropes
Flame Warriors Roster
Twisted Reality is offline  
Old 2007-09-12, 16:55   Link #494
Godly_senselessness
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Heh heh,i cant wait to see Easley acknowledging Rigardo's defeat considering that he thought there was no way Rigardo could lose.He should be feeling more than a little bit uneasy now.



On a seperate note........I for one have never disliked Raki.I have always thought that Raki's actions were quintessentially similar to what a human's would be in line of the events that took place.His whining and crying are all normal,he's a kid remember.The cave scene is also understandable because of this.Plus there was not any focus on him for a long time,there was a considerable period of time when Clare was searching for him that they never showed him onscreen.The overwhelming amount of hate towards Raki is pretty unsubstantiated.I do agree however that placing him in between the Rigardo fight scenes is a mistake but that is not his fault .All in all i love the anime and i am following up with the manga to the exact point where the anime ends each week.I do see a considerable variation from the manga at points but man i am just happy to have come aross such a great series.It's been some time after all the filler crap thats been spewing out from all my other favourite shows.
Godly_senselessness is offline  
Old 2007-09-12, 17:13   Link #495
Elandyll
Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: AZ - USA
Age: 42
More speculations on Clare

Spoiler:

My 2cps
Elandyll is offline  
Old 2007-09-13, 10:58   Link #496
Seska
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elandyll View Post
More speculations on Clare

Spoiler:

My 2cps
Clare has a special bonus...
Spoiler for Only Speculations inside...:
Seska is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.