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Old 2007-09-15, 18:21   Link #9981
Saint X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Oh, okay. *whew* had me scared there for a moment, Saint.

That might work. Keroko was passed around between scientists and psyciatres a lot for about 2 and a half years after the disaster before doctor Hiragu took her under his wing, so she travelled a lot (she met Nanoha half a year later, 3 years after the disaster).
Though...

Spoiler for info:
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Old 2007-09-15, 19:07   Link #9982
FlameSparkZ
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Congrats Saint X, you just sent the thread to page 500
*celebrates*

Coming Next: Reaching the 10000th post
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Old 2007-09-15, 19:56   Link #9983
haiz123321
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
It's just an immune response, after all the h4xx both X and me have been throwing into the thread for laughs or for fanon have made not just Nighty and Aaron but a lot of people to be on guard. Its what keeps the thread balance so everyone can have a good game.

While it may appear overzealous at times, we mean well. Really.
how come i didn't notice everyone was on guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
An interesting piece there. More of Cero, I see. And, yes, Zerglings make good practice, it seems.

With more thanks to SparkZ, it is to you that I present the third of the drawn Letters- F!

Spoiler for Secret Agent Man...:


He isn't colored in, so to speak, due to his IS, Invisible Frame, which, as it suggests, allows him to conceal himself. Also, hence my unfunny spoiler title.

Once again, many thanks to you, SparkZ.
SEI CHANNNNNNN
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Old 2007-09-15, 20:24   Link #9984
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Ah, so that's how the multiple personallity thing works with Cero. Zerglings certainly are an excellent way of showing off skills.
Actually, in my original plan, I wanted to make him spill more Vulgarities and scream non-stop But because I was tired as hell, I just super speed through at the end

But the 'purple' Cero is the true reason why he's given the title "Destroyer of Courage" .

I'm not too sure if it's multi-personality. To me, it's basically the same Cero, just without any moral, social, personal restrains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
An interesting piece there. More of Cero, I see. And, yes, Zerglings make good practice, it seems.
In terms of action, and how each of them ticks, Cero is probably the most interesting; being one that uses a unique magic style



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
With more thanks to SparkZ, it is to you that I present the third of the drawn Letters- F!

Spoiler for Secret Agent Man...:


He isn't colored in, so to speak, due to his IS, Invisible Frame, which, as it suggests, allows him to conceal himself. Also, hence my unfunny spoiler title.

Once again, many thanks to you, SparkZ.
Is it wrong to be more attracted to Sein in the drawing

'F' reminds me of... I was about to say Ono Daisuke in his incarnation in Lucky Star but I changed my mind

... Looks like... Looks like...
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Old 2007-09-15, 20:54   Link #9985
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
Hmm?

I'm interested on which parts of my characterization and interpretation goes beyond lower-key. If you're talking about that Huge Final Boss thing I was talking about, mind you that it's not a proper finalization and it was never something human to begin with. I for one, like to think that as far as the human limits of Nanohaverse goes, I respect it to a degree.

Even my most h4xx of h4xx creations, the Saga der Saga Chronicles, tried to give a pseudo-Nanoha science explanation as to how "Programmed Beings" can exist from the Tome of Darkness. And other aspects of my characters... I don't see what goes beyond low-key.

In DestinyS, the only Lost Logias I intend to introduce is a terra-forming based weapon, and that Final Boss-related core thingy that isn't all that much greater than the Cradle which can already match the Dimensional Fleet toe-to-toe at full power.
Mostly just the DS style boss is what did it for me aside from that I don’t have much issue with anything else you’ve done, but that boss is well… a pretty big thing in and of itself and a fairly easy example. I’ve also just never been a fan of huge super weapons to begin with either as random good guy trump cards or seemingly unstoppable (expect for one weakness) foes. I can already tell stopping this thing is probably going to involve a likely contrived series of events and a hint of deux ex machina most likely since it’s WAY outside what any of the canon stuff could logically handle in a normal fashion.

The boss itself is also just SO Far beyond ANYTHING we’ve ever seen even insinuated, the cradle was pretty large, but it’s NOTHING compared to this. Being moon sized it’s probably millions (perhaps billions if it’s a big moon) of times the volume and mass with proportional increases in required structural strength and power generation.

There is nothing scientific about any of this, not even vaguely. I’d rather you just stick with “it’s magic” then butcher good science to try and make it sound reasonable; which none of it even vaguely is. For instance simply building something the size of the Death Star that could move at even a snails pace would take materials with MILLIONS of times the yield strength of high grade steel, it’s arguable if a material of such strength is even physically possible without some kind of totally unrealistic structural integrity field or mass lightening. If it is just that strong though nothing we’ve ever seen a Nanoha Verse mage or indeed most warships do could probably even dent a blast door, a few inches of the stuff would probably resist contact nuclear detonations, never mind the actual hull.

The power generation capabilities simply to move the thing would be approaching stellar level outputs. Channeled into any kind of reasonable shield nothing in the Nanoha verse ever seen could dent that. Further even if we assume a very low density of weapons emplacements given its surface area we’re still looking at MILLIONS of heavy weapons installations quite probably hundreds of them for every ship in the attack fleet. .

Further given its sheer mass even IF you somehow got dozens of Arc-en-Ciels through to the hull and even if that hull proved vulnerable to them you’d still accomplish almost nothing, the amount of mass they could blast off it would be inconsequential, we’re taking probably fractions of a percent, and unless its reactor is on the outside or something that’s not going to do JACK. The sheer scale of something “moon sized” often seems to escape sci-fi writers (as dose scale in general) never mind the capabilities inherent to something that size even vaguely competently designed.

The “Death Star Style” boss did and still dose strike me as totally hacked and wildly outside canon. The Cradle (the supposed ship of the King) was no where near that size for instance and as you said was hyped as a match for the fleet at full power (though that’s another point I don’t think the TSAB fleet is as big as some people do I’d bet on a few hundred ships at the most). I still think blowing up a planet is also probably outside what the Nanoha-verse is reasonably capable of even with Lost Logia.

This is my view and it’s what I am and will stick too in my own writings. Lost Logia are dangerous indeed (MORE then enough to strictly controlled for sure) but mostly in a biohazard or rouge nuclear weapon rather then “planet/universe ending threat” kind of way. At least that’s my take on it planets and universes are fucking tough, and I don’t like throwing out stuff that can affect either on a large scale willy-nilly in an attempt to make the fight seem “important” particularly when canon shows little support for them.

All that said aside from this bit I haven’t seen anything really objectionable. I’d have to see the other two things used or at least their powers more detailed to make any sort of call on them, but I doubt they’re anymore “scientific”, more so since one is relying on the ever popular and totally vague, “Energy field.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X
For me... Canon is the baseline- and I tend to put it into extreme limits- at the very edge of its possibility- to the extreme.
You’re past that, way past IMO. In fact you came to that line and leapt over it naked, screaming, and on FIRE.

Quote:
Basically, my set is running a thin line between "planet wrecking sneeze/fingersnap", "that's too much" and "that's fine". And i integrate ideas from multiple universes, that's why some may be overpowered in the current universal set.
Some try most of it and the fact you even admit to having planet wrecking potential shows how wildly outside anything hinted at you are given that no mage has even approached nuclear level in canon never mind the stellar level outputs it would take to really damage a planet. I wonder if some of you people grasp just how much power taking out a planet entails.

Here’s a quick thing to help put it in perspective Anti-matter is powerful right? In fact according to current physics it’s the most powerful energy reaction possible since it converts matter to pure energy. (but it’s also often overrated as allot of that “energy” comes out as useless neutrinos, you know the slippery little bugger that can fly though a light year of lead without hitting anything… acutally scores of them are passing right through as you read this.) Anyway, the Death Star is a pretty famous planet killer and a good example since it doesn’t use any funky reactions; it just zaps a planet with a giant ray gun and destroys it.

The power required to blow up a planet death star style is so high that powering a single shot would required a ball of anti-matter/matter at the density of uranium, 500 kilometers wide! Even simply melting the upper crust would require more power then that contained in every nuclear bomb ever built. Either of these is Millions to Billions of times the most generous energy output level possibly attributable to a mage.

Even shit that’s consider like huge like Starlight breaker is barely above MOAB level, it’s not even near nuclear range. Anyone talking about taking out cities or planets has already left canon miles behind beat up, bloodily, and unconscious in a ditch at the side of the road.

Quote:
In my Ficverse, Canon characters are pitted against situations that some might call unfair and with enemies overpowered, and thus they must adapt to it- and in come OCs that are also adapt or are above the already modded canon characters to further develop/teach or fight them and so on- and the canon side wins.
Which to me shows you might just be incapable of coming with villains that seem dangerous but aren’t ludicrously overpowered and outside anything seen it canon, so to compensate you also wank the hell out of the good guys. MORE POWAH!!!! Dose not a good or interesting story make. It also makes it rather hard to expand on it when you’ve already dealt with a potential universe ending threat… I mean many of those can there fucking be!?

Quote:
Ever since i've watched Nanoha, i've redefined Magic as the realization and materialization of energy thru physical laws and quantum mechanics, that quickly defies any known phyiscal law.
AKA you’ve made up shit as an excuse to do whatever the hell you want and ignore canon power levels, limits, logic, and common sense. The fact you try to use Quantum mechanics as an excuse shows me you’re likely clueless as what that discipline acutally is. Quantum mechanics is the science of things at the most minute scales of the universe, and yes AT that most TINY of scales quantum mechanics can sometimes seem to defy classic physics, but that’s a key point at that tiny scale. (Quantum mechanics DOSE NOT SCALE) Once you enlarge the scale quantum mechanics becomes classic physics and all its annoying rules like conversation of energy and momentum, inefficiency, relativity, etc apply to you.

Classic physics is the laws and rules for the macro (above atomic) scale, quantum mechanics are the rules and laws at the micro (below atomic) scale. When the later becomes the former, or the former the later then one or the other becomes dominant, but neither is inherently “superior” as many ill informed people often assume. Quantum mechanics is a “newer science” yes but new science doesn’t obsolete older science like classical physics all it dose is explain phenomena the older science couldn’t in this case various aspects of the universe at the quantum scale that class physics has issues dealing with.

Quantum physics can’t be used to “defy” physical laws as the interactions of the various sub-atomic particles and forces at the quantum scale are ultimately what underlies and causes those laws to begin with! The rampant abuse of quantum mechanics by lazy writers without a clue what it really is pisses me off to no end.

IMPORTANT POST SCRIPT:

I don't want you to leave the thread of anything and you can go crazy like this if you want, but I also won't tolerate any attempt to say that this stuff is support by canon and not totally your own creation. That's my main point it's your universe do what you want, but don't pretend you're adhering even vaguely to canon or that this is logical extrapolation. Ultimately this to me is an intellectual dispute you seem to feel canon somewhat supports your interpretation, I don't and I'll say so. That's important this isn't even really about the merits of the story or characters (though the monstrous power level dose turn me off in that regard) it's mostly about whether any of this can be consider to be within the realm of possible canon I don't think it is, and I like to stick close to canon in terms of tech and overall power level hence my disagreement.

On that note it is also perhaps something of a debate about the direction writers and the fanon should be taking the universe post StrikerS if we go down you’re road I fear we could end up like DBZ some some new random power up every other week and tossing out energy blasts that can destroy entire planets in the crossfire. That is NOT the sort of Nanoha Fanon I want to see nor do I think it’s what the creators ever intended.

That said pulling out the "Stop disagreeing and criticizing my ideas or I’ll leave!!!" card is pretty weak.

Last edited by Tk3997; 2007-09-15 at 21:21.
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Old 2007-09-15, 21:15   Link #9986
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Mostly just the DS style boss is what did it for me aside from that I don’t have much issue with anything else you’ve done, but that boss is well… a pretty big thing in and of itself and a fairly easy example. I’ve also just never been a fan of huge super weapons to begin with either as random good guy trump cards or seemingly unstoppable (expect for one weakness) foes. I can already tell stopping this thing is probably going to involve a likely contrived series of events and a hint of deux ex machina most likely since it’s WAY outside what any of the canon stuff could logically handle in a normal fashion.

The boss itself is also just SO Far beyond ANYTHING we’ve ever seen even insinuated, the cradle was pretty large, but it’s NOTHING compared to this. Being moon sized it’s probably millions (perhaps billions if it’s a big moon) of times the volume and mass with proportional increases in required structural strength and power generation.

There is nothing scientific about any of this, not even vaguely. I’d rather you just stick with “it’s magic” then butcher good science to try and make it sound reasonable; which none of it even vaguely is. For instance simply building something the size of the Death Star that could move at even a snails pace would take materials with MILLIONS of times the yield strength of high grade steel, it’s arguable if a material of such strength is even physically possible without some kind of totally unrealistic structural integrity field or mass lightening. If it is just that strong though nothing we’ve ever seen a Nanoha Verse mage or indeed most warships do could probably even dent a blast door, a few inches of the stuff would probably resist contact nuclear detonations, never mind the actual hull.

The power generation capabilities simply to move the thing would be approaching stellar level outputs. Channeled into any kind of reasonable shield nothing in the Nanoha verse ever seen could dent that. Further even if we assume a very low density of weapons emplacements given its surface area we’re still looking at MILLIONS of heavy weapons installations quite probably hundreds of them for every ship in the attack fleet. .

Further given its sheer mass even IF you somehow got dozens of Arc-en-Ciels through to the hull and even if that hull proved vulnerable to them you’d still accomplish almost nothing, the amount of mass they could blast off it would be inconsequential, we’re taking probably fractions of a percent, and unless its reactor is on the outside or something that’s not going to do JACK. The sheer scale of something “moon sized” often seems to escape sci-fi writers (as dose scale in general) never mind the capabilities inherent to something that size even vaguely competently designed.

The “Death Star Style” boss did and still dose strike me as totally hacked and wildly outside canon. The Cradle (the supposed ship of the King) was no where near that size for instance and as you said was hyped as a match for the fleet at full power (though that’s another point I don’t think the TSAB fleet is as big as some people do I’d bet on a few hundred ships at the most). I still think blowing up a planet is also probably outside what the Nanoha-verse is reasonably capable of even with Lost Logia.

This is my view and it’s what I am and will stick too in my own writings. Lost Logia are dangerous indeed (MORE then enough to strictly controlled for sure) but mostly in a biohazard or rouge nuclear weapon rather then “planet/universe ending threat” kind of way. At least that’s my take on it planets and universes are fucking tough, and I don’t like throwing out stuff that can affect either on a large scale willy-nilly in an attempt to make the fight seem “important” particularly when canon shows little support for them.

All that said aside from this bit I haven’t seen anything really objectionable. I’d have to see the other two things used or at least their powers more detailed to make any sort of call on them, but I doubt they’re anymore “scientific”, more so since one is relying on the ever popular and totally vague, “Energy field.”


You’re past that, way past IMO. In fact you came to that line and leapt over it naked, screaming, and on FIRE.

Some try most of it and the fact you even admit to having planet wrecking potential shows how wildly outside anything hinted at you are given that no mage has even approached nuclear level in canon never mind the stellar level outputs it would take to really damage a planet. I wonder if some of you people grasp just how much power taking out a planet entails.

Here’s a quick thing to help put it in perspective Anti-matter is powerful right? In fact according to current physics it’s the most powerful energy reaction possible since it converts matter to pure energy. (but it’s also often overrated as allot of that “energy” comes out as useless neutrinos, you know the slippery little bugger that can fly though a light year of lead without hitting anything… acutally scores of them are passing right through as you read this.) Anyway, the Death Star is a pretty famous planet killer and a good example since it doesn’t use any funky reactions; it just zaps a planet with a giant ray gun and destroys it.

The power required to blow up a planet death star style is so high that powering a single shot would required a ball of anti-matter/matter at the density of uranium, 500 kilometers wide! Even simply melting the upper crust would require more power then that contained in every nuclear bomb ever built. Either of these is Millions to Billions of times the most generous energy output level possibly attributable to a mage.

Even shit that’s consider like huge like Starlight breaker is barely above MOAB level, it’s not even near nuclear range. Anyone talking about taking out cities or planets has already left canon miles behind beat up, bloodily, and unconscious in a ditch at the side of the road.

Which to me shows you might just be incapable of coming with villains that seem dangerous but aren’t ludicrously overpowered and outside anything seen it canon, so to compensate you also wank the hell out of the good guys. MORE POWAH!!!! Dose not a good or interesting story make. It also makes it rather hard to expand on it when you’ve already dealt with a potential universe ending threat… I mean many of those can there fucking be!?

AKA you’ve made up shit as an excuse to do whatever the hell you want and ignore canon power levels, limits, logic, and common sense. The fact you try to use Quantum mechanics as an excuse shows me you’re likely clueless as what that discipline acutally is. Quantum mechanics is the science of things at the most minute scales of the universe, and yes AT that most TINY of scales quantum mechanics can sometimes seem to defy classic physics, but that’s a key point at that tiny scale. (Quantum mechanics DOSE NOT SCALE) Once you enlarge the scale quantum mechanics becomes classic physics and all its annoying rules like conversation of energy and momentum, inefficiency, relativity, etc apply to you.

Classic physics is the laws and rules for the macro (above atomic) scale, quantum mechanics are the rules and laws at the micro (below atomic) scale. When the later becomes the former, or the former the later then one or the other becomes dominant, but neither is inherently “superior” as many ill informed people often assume. Quantum mechanics is a “newer science” yes but new science doesn’t obsolete older science like classical physics all it dose is explain phenomena the older science couldn’t in this case various aspects of the universe at the quantum scale that class physics has issues dealing with.

Quantum physics can’t be used to “defy” physical laws as the interactions of the various sub-atomic particles and forces at the quantum scale are ultimately what underlies and causes those laws to begin with! The rampant abuse of quantum mechanics by lazy writers without a clue what it really is pisses me off to no end.

IMPORTANT POST SCRIPT:

I don't want you to leave the thread of anything and you can go crazy like this if you want, but I also won't tolerate any attempt to say that this stuff is support by canon and not totally your own creation. That's my main point it's your universe do what you want, but don't pretend you're adhering even vaguely to canon or that this is logical extrapolation. Ultimately this to me is an intellectual dispute you feel canon somewhat supports your interpretation, I don't and I'll say so. That's important this isn't even really about the merits of the story or characters (though the monstrous power level dose turn me off in that regard) it's mostly about whether any of this can be consider to be within the realm of possible canon I don't think it is, and I like to stick close to canon in terms of tech and overall power level.

That said pulling out the "Stop disagreeing and criticizing my ideas or I’ll leave!!!" card is pretty weak.
Very good points. I'll keep that in mind. Twas an enlightening post. And much thanks to the efforts in it as well.

Well, my biggest fear was really the point of which my characters might've been over-the-top, because if it went to that, then I really have no excuse. But if it's just that, then I could easily bend a lot of things. I could just turn this final boss thing into a Legend of Galactic Heroes fleet battle as well for all I care.

As for the energy field thing, well... yeah, I wouldn't call it scientific. Hell, I pretty much included a Mandrake plant + spiritual descent inside the story for god's sake. It's all purely for the sake of storytelling, but in comparison, it's not really h4xx either since it's just the ever-so-vague energy field nonsense similar to the whole Tome of Darkness darkness thing, only larger a little.

I've always been more of a fantasy writer than sci-fi. I don't really look into the 'whole pseudo-science' thing with that much detail. It really helps.
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Old 2007-09-15, 21:41   Link #9987
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@ TK

I told you i give up on the arguments... you win... YOU WIN!!! YOU WIN!!!

no more from me from this point on.

Yes, i'm always tagged as not original...

i'm always tagged as not keeping in canon...

*sulks*

*thinks*


MOVING FORWARD!!!


where was i?
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Old 2007-09-15, 21:47   Link #9988
Nightengale
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HOLY SHITE GL25 IS EPIC. KING KING KING KING.

Spoiler for GL 25:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
On that note it is also perhaps something of a debate about the direction writers and the fanon should be taking the universe post StrikerS if we go down you’re road I fear we could end up like DBZ some some new random power up every other week and tossing out energy blasts that can destroy entire planets in the crossfire. That is NOT the sort of Nanoha Fanon I want to see nor do I think it’s what the creators ever intended.

That said pulling out the "Stop disagreeing and criticizing my ideas or I’ll leave!!!" card is pretty weak.
DBZ? I know some of us had been quite overbearing (( FlameSparkZ's demi-beings, Kha's versatility + harem power, Homunculus + Powerful Arsenal, etc )), but I don't think any of us ever crossed or intend to cross that line.

Speaking of which, I would like your opinion. If you were to create a huge, powerful, believable anti-fleet weapons system within Nanohaverse limits, how would you go about it? At this point, I'm thinking something akin to the Star Forge-ish parallel with its own fleets (( Star Wars )) but I would like your input, since regardless of which, size + power is what I intend to go for with for the final part of DestinyS.

If moon is too much, then fine. I'm not all that inflexible. What would you think would be appropriate then?

Edit : A picture is worth a thousand words.

Oh, @Tk, if you're wondering, this is Star Forge that I semi-intend to parallel. Of course, minus all that Star Wars negative-infinite-force thing, and replaced with simply magic.
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The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.

Last edited by Nightengale; 2007-09-15 at 22:02.
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:03   Link #9989
Saint X
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MOVING FORWARD!!!

To add fuel to the Keroko harem fire...

I introduce to you...

Spoiler for Project Olympus: Hermes: concept pic:


*runs*

@Night



All hail!!!
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:05   Link #9990
Erio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Ahahaha Sorry about that. I'll be editing the picture soon (Reinforce didn't work out the way I wanted). I'm tempted to leave her hair as it is, though. I don't know, something just 'clicked'.

Maybe there could be some sort of relationship (or growing one) between Tesla and your Fayt-ish character?
Dont worry. It was just an idea I had anyway.

She was not going to be part of the TSAB, though, but part of another organization similar to it. The TSAB only has influence over a very small part of the universe, so it shouldnt be surprising if at another point of the universe there exists another similar organization... I wanted to explore such idea.

Quote:
It's being worked on, but patching up scans is hard work, especially when your free time is not that much.
Oh it is? Please letme know when it is done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryAeon View Post
Oh I'm curious, I just went through Erio's OCs fanfic styled bios. Question, you took some of the names from the game Odin Sphere?

Edit: Ok Oswald definitely seems to be modeled after Oswald from Odin Sphere. ^^' Off topic: I love that game, now if only the frame rate for the graphics doesn't slow down in certain fights. ~_~
lol Yup. My Gwendolyn is quite different, though.

And yeah, I love that game too. The slowdown in some boss battles is quite helpful, I must say. However, I do think its sometimes annoying as well.

And thanks for reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Spoiler for Length:
And Tk strikes again.

About the DBZ part, Nighty, he means that every other week we will introduce an enemy more powerful than the last one, which will result in our characters being boosted up as well every time, rinse and repeat, increasing in power until everyone becomes planet killers.

BTW, Tk, I wonder how you view my characters. Are they over the top h4xx or whatever?
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:14   Link #9991
Liingo
Love Hina?
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AImost Pure View Post
I know, I know, my absence of updates for the story has had everyone on pins and needles. I'm sorry but for some reason I hit a rough spot on certain character ideas and I'm not quite sure I still got them how I want them, but here's another piece of Minea's diaries!

Spoiler for Minea's Diaries:
They don't sound like a group of people I would want to mess with, that's for sure. Nice description on each of their suits and what their roles are.

So Alexandria and Constance have becomes friends.... I'm bracing myself for angst then...

Great job
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
An interesting piece there. More of Cero, I see. And, yes, Zerglings make good practice, it seems.

With more thanks to SparkZ, it is to you that I present the third of the drawn Letters- F!

Spoiler for Secret Agent Man...:


He isn't colored in, so to speak, due to his IS, Invisible Frame, which, as it suggests, allows him to conceal himself. Also, hence my unfunny spoiler title.

Once again, many thanks to you, SparkZ.
I find my attention drawn more to Sein than to F...
Great work as always Flame

@ TK

Hail to the new head moderator!!! (Sorry Aaron)
It seems from what you're written, my characters are for the moment safe. *phew*
*hands over cookies*
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:15   Link #9992
LoweGear
Device Meister
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YUUKI NO SUZUME!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
"...Let the bodies hit the floor. (Part III) "

Summary: Continuing from the previous one several days ago... A brief look into one of the three Destroyers' combat style. As usual, more... Fitting background music to entertain the viewers, gruesome alien deaths, and finally more average-level English use to project those images for you.

Here is the dark prince himself and his solo performance !!


Background information first


Spoiler for Neo-Valmar Style:



Song title:

"Forgotten"


P.S - I changed the name of the spell slightly...

Spoiler for "Somebody called for an Exterminator?":


P.S - It's 2:30 am here, so I sort of went super fast near the end
Now you really showed off Cero's skills now... and damn, even with just spikes and hammers he kicks Zerg ass with lots of style! And the Ultralisk battle was one of the better Destroyer battles yet

Though I'll be nitpicky at the fact that the Ultralisk (that wouldn't be a Tarrasque would it?) "called" for reinforcements when the Zerg are a top to bottom hive mind

Minor nit in an awesome piece though

Quote:
Originally Posted by AImost Pure View Post
I know, I know, my absence of updates for the story has had everyone on pins and needles. I'm sorry but for some reason I hit a rough spot on certain character ideas and I'm not quite sure I still got them how I want them, but here's another piece of Minea's diaries!

Spoiler for Minea's Diaries:
Nice intro on the the Alexandria 5 (), sounds like a most dangerous bunch indeed. I like the imagery for Siege the best though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
With more thanks to SparkZ, it is to you that I present the third of the drawn Letters- F!

Spoiler for Secret Agent Man...:


He isn't colored in, so to speak, due to his IS, Invisible Frame, which, as it suggests, allows him to conceal himself. Also, hence my unfunny spoiler title.

Once again, many thanks to you, SparkZ.
James Bond F + Sei = NAISU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
- YES!!!

Nekki Basra, Sol Badguy, H***** and Rocker Atrhas in a EPIC guitar battle!

*Dies from sheer WTF Awesomeness*
*Dies along*

Lowe's Ghost: All we need to see now is a true Lyrical Magic battle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
This is my view and it’s what I am and will stick too in my own writings. Lost Logia are dangerous indeed (MORE then enough to strictly controlled for sure) but mostly in a biohazard or rouge nuclear weapon rather then “planet/universe ending threat” kind of way. At least that’s my take on it planets and universes are fucking tough, and I don’t like throwing out stuff that can affect either on a large scale willy-nilly in an attempt to make the fight seem “important” particularly when canon shows little support for them.
I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of points in your post, save for this one though. Since in Season 1, Lindy and Chrono have pointed out that entire worlds have been devastated due to the power of Lost Logia, and that the power of Lost Logia like the Jewel Seeds are capable of dislocating space-time and dimensions. So we do have some canon precedent for at least the planet and dimension devastating powers of Lost Logia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
HOLY SHITE GL25 IS EPIC. KING KING KING KING.

Spoiler for GL 25:


*moment of silence in honor of Kittan*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erio View Post
BTW, Tk, I wonder how you view my characters. Are they over the top h4xx or whatever?
I think its time our characters got the Tk filtering treatment. I'm wondering how my OC's fare in the power level/H4XX scale
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:19   Link #9993
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

DBZ? I know some of us had been quite overbearing (( FlameSparkZ's demi-beings, Kha's versatility + harem power, Homunculus + Powerful Arsenal, etc )), but I don't think any of us ever crossed or intend to cross that line.
Not yet, but things can spiral out of control fast if you don't set some fairly firm limits.

Quote:
Speaking of which, I would like your opinion. If you were to create a huge, powerful, believable anti-fleet weapons system within Nanohaverse limits, how would you go about it? At this point, I'm thinking something akin to the Star Forge-ish parallel with its own fleets (( Star Wars )) but I would like your input, since regardless of which, size + power is what I intend to go for with for the final part of DestinyS.

If moon is too much, then fine. I'm not all that inflexible. What would you think would be appropriate then?

Edit : A picture is worth a thousand words.

Oh, @Tk, if you're wondering, this is Star Forge that I semi-intend to parallel. Of course, minus all that Star Wars negative-infinite-force thing, and replaced with simply magic.
I'm aware of what it was I am a Star Wars freak after all.

Though this is acutally a hard question since we know so little about Nanoha space combat…

For instance we have little idea about any of the follow so far as I know.
Prolusion:
The acceleration abilities of starships are largely unknown they can maintain and break orbits at will obviously, but that merely shows they have engines roughly equal to a decent torch drive (so probably at least 4 or 5 Gs of sustained long term thrust it’s probably more but how MUCH more?) Tying into this artificial gravity is in and probably inertial dampening, but to what degree can it counter forces on the ship can it stop any force, some of them, only a few G acceleration etc.

On the FTL side how long dose it take them to transit into dimensional space, can this be blocked, dose it work in gravity wells or other odd astronomical situations. Can it be used tactically? IE a shot hop to get behind the enemy or jump away from a bad situation, or is it to slow/limited by charge time for that to work, hell is it even possible to charge the drives with tactical systems active. Is combat in dimensional space itself possible, if so how easy is it to track enemy ships inside, etc etc.

Weapons systems:
We only ever see a ship fire one weapon main gun style weapon so far as I know. So we don’t even know if they have back up weapons let alone what type and this is a huge issue. If they have little or no point defense for instance a saturation strike of long range missiles could be devastating. It seems crazy they wouldn’t have smaller secondary batteries but I’ve seen dumber designs in anime… Even assuming they have them what yields, fire rates, ranges, etc.
Defensive Systems:
How strong are their shields? Do they have an exploitable weakness such frequency, specific forms of radiation, ineffectiveness against matter, etc etc? How do the shields work do they deflect, absorb, or redirect incoming damage? Do they have a threshold below which they don’t drain, dose any impact drain them, can they be reinforced to different areas of the ship as needed ? Armor, are the ships even armored? If so what kind and how thick? What about damage control?
Power Systems:
How is power generated? Perhaps some form of magical reactor, or maybe some sort of “tap” into dimensional space, could be good old fashion fusion for all we know. Tying into this how stable is it? Meta-stable (requires active measures to keep under control) or inherently stable. Will it fail safe or fail deadly if damaged? For instance in reality if you damage a fusion reactor… it will 99.9% just stop working fusion is incredibly hard to maintain and any disruption is going to stop the reaction not massively intensify it. Anti-Matter on the other hand wants to explode at all times and much be kept from doing so, if you lost containment on it… BOOM. What some sort of energy tap or magical reactor might do is hard to say.
Electronic systems:
We have little clue what they’re sensors can really do against enemy ships in combat conditions or what sort of ECM and ECCM they might employ. How far can they see enemy ships? Are the sensors FTL, STL, a mix of both? Can they be jammed? How easily etc. What about beaming bombs and stuff is that possible? Dose jamming prevent it and if so in what radius or is it so huge it doesn’t matter. Hell can teleporters be stopped? Or could you potentially beam boarders onto enemy ships? (I doubt this, but I suppose it might not be impossible.)
Other:
Fighters? Do they have fighters, would fighters be effective? If they don’t have them but they might be would they have any kind of defense against them?

Nanoha Space Combat is nearly virgin ground it seems as we see so little of it even purposing tactics for it is difficult, never mind counter measures against it. That said I find the idea of a Star Forge Style mondo automated shipyard somewhat appealing. Something that they HAVE to take out before it ramps out or they’ll be buried under a tidal wave of enemy ships and that forces them into a giant fleet battle over and around it has potential, you might also be able to get the ground pounders involved in boarding the thing to try and disable key systems and disrupt it’s defenses while the fleet keeps the defenders occupied.

A large fleet on fleet battle is better IMO then a fleet vs. super weapon of doom battle all around as it allows for more actual tactics aside from one side just taking horrible body blows while a small group of heroes races in to try and stop the super weapon. It could help make the "extras" feel more important like they're role is really vital for the mission to work and not like they're just meat shields to distract the enemy and get blown up to fuel the heroes Righteous Angry™ while they do everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear
I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of points in your post, save for this one though. Since in Season 1, Lindy and Chrono have pointed out that entire worlds have been devastated due to the power of Lost Logia, and that the power of Lost Logia like the Jewel Seeds are capable of dislocating space-time and dimensions. So we do have some canon precedent for at least the planet and dimension devastating powers of Lost Logia.
"Devastated" is subjective though, a nuclear war or an asteroid strike would be “Devastating.” But it wouldn’t destroy the planet by any stretch. My stance on any talk of “devastating”,” ruining”, or “destroying” planets etc is go the conservative road and assume “planetary scale mayhem.” Not “planet explodes death start style.” Unless either shown or explicitly stated.

As I said though I tend toward a conservative low end estimate of everything rather then the most extreme high powered interpretation possible (and the low end is often much closer to the truth). The fact that all the Lost Logia we acutally see also all seem to fall WAY short of that kind of damage only reinforces that stance for me. (Jail was apparently cramming Jewel Seeds into Drones for instance and I didn't seem them nuking cites anything... Were they more powerful then average for this? Oh hell yes, world ending? Err... not exactly.) Nor dose messing with space and time instantly imply any kind of "Unlimited POWAH!!!" unless further quantified.

Last edited by Tk3997; 2007-09-15 at 22:35.
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:20   Link #9994
haiz123321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
HOLY SHITE GL25 IS EPIC. KING KING KING KING.

Spoiler for GL 25:


ORE WA DARE DA OMOTTE YARU or something like that
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:24   Link #9995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post

Now you really showed off Cero's skills now... and damn, even with just spikes and hammers he kicks Zerg ass with lots of style! And the Ultralisk battle was one of the better Destroyer battles yet
That's only because it could soak up alot of damage

Looking back now, I realized that I left out alot of details because I was rushing to sleep, like in the last scene with the Zerglings underground. Those that were impaled above Cero had their blood rain down on him...

... Stuff like that

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Though I'll be nitpicky at the fact that the Ultralisk (that wouldn't be a Tarrasque would it?) "called" for reinforcements when the Zerg are a top to bottom hive mind

Minor nit in an awesome piece though
Hmm, you're right... I guess I was too smashed But then again, 'Ultralisk can't burrow'

And funny you should mentioned the 'Tarrasque' No, this is a 'normal' Ultralisk, but the last one behind him isn't

P.S - In case you were wondering but didn't think it was necessary to ask - I've decided to name the loli catgirls in his meido harem after colours


P.P.S - I wonder how Y** would think now
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:31   Link #9996
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@ TK

Simple: we can adopt common space combat ideas and such...

Though we so far can only see, capital ship types with one main gun with no provisions for any armor against any other threats.

As for shielding if i remember Nanoha, the Asura/Athra was hit by a powerful magic bolt from Preica that weakened the shield, and they did have some form of damage control

no space or interdimensional battles yet- so simply no ship to ship combat. no fighters, mages are not fighting against any other airborne mage- that last line was strange because we've seen a lot of air to air battles, but nothing between ship to ship so far that matches Star Wars style space combat- no mages dodging others in a hailstorm of fire- perhaps that ban on conventionals has weakened combat styles.

Power systems: some sort of bioreactor or cold fusion device?

Electronics: magical variants of RADAR might do... or something in that spectrum
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:32   Link #9997
Satty
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Well, we're getting to the 10k post...[Mr. Burns]excellent...[/Mr. Burns]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ View Post
Well, it's done

Spoiler for Hayate & Yui:

Unfortunately, Yui ended up a bit short

Well, here height would be somewhere between Teana's and Erio's

Too bad they haven't announced the height (three sizes too ) of the characters in StrikerS, it'd be easier to define a height of my OC characters
NAISU!!!!
Never mind the size, it looks great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
"...Let the bodies hit the floor. (Part III) "

Summary: Continuing from the previous one several days ago... A brief look into one of the three Destroyers' combat style. As usual, more... Fitting background music to entertain the viewers, gruesome alien deaths, and finally more average-level English use to project those images for you.

Here is the dark prince himself and his solo performance !!


Background information first


Spoiler for Neo-Valmar Style:



Song title:

"Forgotten"


P.S - I changed the name of the spell slightly...

Spoiler for "Somebody called for an Exterminator?":


P.S - It's 2:30 am here, so I sort of went super fast near the end
Interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AImost Pure View Post
I know, I know, my absence of updates for the story has had everyone on pins and needles. I'm sorry but for some reason I hit a rough spot on certain character ideas and I'm not quite sure I still got them how I want them, but here's another piece of Minea's diaries!

Spoiler for Minea's Diaries:
Whoa, those five are starting to creep me out...nice chapter, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
With more thanks to SparkZ, it is to you that I present the third of the drawn Letters- F!

Spoiler for Secret Agent Man...:


He isn't colored in, so to speak, due to his IS, Invisible Frame, which, as it suggests, allows him to conceal himself. Also, hence my unfunny spoiler title.

Once again, many thanks to you, SparkZ.
Another nice picture by the one and only FlameSparkZ, James F, huh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
Spoiler for Project Olympus: Hermes: concept pic:


*runs*

@Night



All hail!!!
Krad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Mostly just the DS style boss is what did it for me aside from that I don’t have much issue with anything else you’ve done, but that boss is well… a pretty big thing in and of itself and a fairly easy example. I’ve also just never been a fan of huge super weapons to begin with either as random good guy trump cards or seemingly unstoppable (expect for one weakness) foes. I can already tell stopping this thing is probably going to involve a likely contrived series of events and a hint of deux ex machina most likely since it’s WAY outside what any of the canon stuff could logically handle in a normal fashion.

The boss itself is also just SO Far beyond ANYTHING we’ve ever seen even insinuated, the cradle was pretty large, but it’s NOTHING compared to this. Being moon sized it’s probably millions (perhaps billions if it’s a big moon) of times the volume and mass with proportional increases in required structural strength and power generation.

There is nothing scientific about any of this, not even vaguely. I’d rather you just stick with “it’s magic” then butcher good science to try and make it sound reasonable; which none of it even vaguely is. For instance simply building something the size of the Death Star that could move at even a snails pace would take materials with MILLIONS of times the yield strength of high grade steel, it’s arguable if a material of such strength is even physically possible without some kind of totally unrealistic structural integrity field or mass lightening. If it is just that strong though nothing we’ve ever seen a Nanoha Verse mage or indeed most warships do could probably even dent a blast door, a few inches of the stuff would probably resist contact nuclear detonations, never mind the actual hull.

The power generation capabilities simply to move the thing would be approaching stellar level outputs. Channeled into any kind of reasonable shield nothing in the Nanoha verse ever seen could dent that. Further even if we assume a very low density of weapons emplacements given its surface area we’re still looking at MILLIONS of heavy weapons installations quite probably hundreds of them for every ship in the attack fleet. .

Further given its sheer mass even IF you somehow got dozens of Arc-en-Ciels through to the hull and even if that hull proved vulnerable to them you’d still accomplish almost nothing, the amount of mass they could blast off it would be inconsequential, we’re taking probably fractions of a percent, and unless its reactor is on the outside or something that’s not going to do JACK. The sheer scale of something “moon sized” often seems to escape sci-fi writers (as dose scale in general) never mind the capabilities inherent to something that size even vaguely competently designed.

The “Death Star Style” boss did and still dose strike me as totally hacked and wildly outside canon. The Cradle (the supposed ship of the King) was no where near that size for instance and as you said was hyped as a match for the fleet at full power (though that’s another point I don’t think the TSAB fleet is as big as some people do I’d bet on a few hundred ships at the most). I still think blowing up a planet is also probably outside what the Nanoha-verse is reasonably capable of even with Lost Logia.

This is my view and it’s what I am and will stick too in my own writings. Lost Logia are dangerous indeed (MORE then enough to strictly controlled for sure) but mostly in a biohazard or rouge nuclear weapon rather then “planet/universe ending threat” kind of way. At least that’s my take on it planets and universes are fucking tough, and I don’t like throwing out stuff that can affect either on a large scale willy-nilly in an attempt to make the fight seem “important” particularly when canon shows little support for them.

All that said aside from this bit I haven’t seen anything really objectionable. I’d have to see the other two things used or at least their powers more detailed to make any sort of call on them, but I doubt they’re anymore “scientific”, more so since one is relying on the ever popular and totally vague, “Energy field.”


You’re past that, way past IMO. In fact you came to that line and leapt over it naked, screaming, and on FIRE.

Some try most of it and the fact you even admit to having planet wrecking potential shows how wildly outside anything hinted at you are given that no mage has even approached nuclear level in canon never mind the stellar level outputs it would take to really damage a planet. I wonder if some of you people grasp just how much power taking out a planet entails.

Here’s a quick thing to help put it in perspective Anti-matter is powerful right? In fact according to current physics it’s the most powerful energy reaction possible since it converts matter to pure energy. (but it’s also often overrated as allot of that “energy” comes out as useless neutrinos, you know the slippery little bugger that can fly though a light year of lead without hitting anything… acutally scores of them are passing right through as you read this.) Anyway, the Death Star is a pretty famous planet killer and a good example since it doesn’t use any funky reactions; it just zaps a planet with a giant ray gun and destroys it.

The power required to blow up a planet death star style is so high that powering a single shot would required a ball of anti-matter/matter at the density of uranium, 500 kilometers wide! Even simply melting the upper crust would require more power then that contained in every nuclear bomb ever built. Either of these is Millions to Billions of times the most generous energy output level possibly attributable to a mage.

Even shit that’s consider like huge like Starlight breaker is barely above MOAB level, it’s not even near nuclear range. Anyone talking about taking out cities or planets has already left canon miles behind beat up, bloodily, and unconscious in a ditch at the side of the road.

Which to me shows you might just be incapable of coming with villains that seem dangerous but aren’t ludicrously overpowered and outside anything seen it canon, so to compensate you also wank the hell out of the good guys. MORE POWAH!!!! Dose not a good or interesting story make. It also makes it rather hard to expand on it when you’ve already dealt with a potential universe ending threat… I mean many of those can there fucking be!?

AKA you’ve made up shit as an excuse to do whatever the hell you want and ignore canon power levels, limits, logic, and common sense. The fact you try to use Quantum mechanics as an excuse shows me you’re likely clueless as what that discipline acutally is. Quantum mechanics is the science of things at the most minute scales of the universe, and yes AT that most TINY of scales quantum mechanics can sometimes seem to defy classic physics, but that’s a key point at that tiny scale. (Quantum mechanics DOSE NOT SCALE) Once you enlarge the scale quantum mechanics becomes classic physics and all its annoying rules like conversation of energy and momentum, inefficiency, relativity, etc apply to you.

Classic physics is the laws and rules for the macro (above atomic) scale, quantum mechanics are the rules and laws at the micro (below atomic) scale. When the later becomes the former, or the former the later then one or the other becomes dominant, but neither is inherently “superior” as many ill informed people often assume. Quantum mechanics is a “newer science” yes but new science doesn’t obsolete older science like classical physics all it dose is explain phenomena the older science couldn’t in this case various aspects of the universe at the quantum scale that class physics has issues dealing with.

Quantum physics can’t be used to “defy” physical laws as the interactions of the various sub-atomic particles and forces at the quantum scale are ultimately what underlies and causes those laws to begin with! The rampant abuse of quantum mechanics by lazy writers without a clue what it really is pisses me off to no end.

IMPORTANT POST SCRIPT:

I don't want you to leave the thread of anything and you can go crazy like this if you want, but I also won't tolerate any attempt to say that this stuff is support by canon and not totally your own creation. That's my main point it's your universe do what you want, but don't pretend you're adhering even vaguely to canon or that this is logical extrapolation. Ultimately this to me is an intellectual dispute you seem to feel canon somewhat supports your interpretation, I don't and I'll say so. That's important this isn't even really about the merits of the story or characters (though the monstrous power level dose turn me off in that regard) it's mostly about whether any of this can be consider to be within the realm of possible canon I don't think it is, and I like to stick close to canon in terms of tech and overall power level hence my disagreement.

On that note it is also perhaps something of a debate about the direction writers and the fanon should be taking the universe post StrikerS if we go down you’re road I fear we could end up like DBZ some some new random power up every other week and tossing out energy blasts that can destroy entire planets in the crossfire. That is NOT the sort of Nanoha Fanon I want to see nor do I think it’s what the creators ever intended.

That said pulling out the "Stop disagreeing and criticizing my ideas or I’ll leave!!!" card is pretty weak.
That's a lot....as for my characters, I think I'm safe....
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:46   Link #9998
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
Electronics: magical variants of RADAR might do... or something in that spectrum
Magic sensors in space are probably a waste of time as even normal modern sensors can have some truly ludicrous ranges with nothing but vacumm between them and the target… I mean ranges like “See enemy starships exhaust plume near Pluto’s from Earth orbit" kind of range.

To gain a scientific base for discussion of sensors in space combat I suggest reading this.
Atomic Rockets: Sensors
If anything I’d be trying to use magic to hide myself not try and find the other guy.
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Old 2007-09-15, 22:58   Link #9999
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@ TK

read about that... well it is true... even xrays from light years away are easily detected...

but instead of using it actively, why not use passively to detect- magical battles are so 'noisy' that they light up any passive sensor screen...

- well there are passive radars now...

well, that's just my idea...

@ satty

Just the concept image...
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Old 2007-09-15, 23:02   Link #10000
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
@ TK

read about that... well it is true... even xrays from light years away are easily detected...

but instead of using it actively, why not use passively to detect- magical battles are so 'noisy' that they light up any passive sensor screen...

- well there are passive radars now...

well, that's just my idea...
Most space sensors ARE passive already they detect the heat and radiation from enemy ships, they don’t emit anything themselves as it's not needed. Using magic to detect magic would be redundant in any case though if you can see the ships, see the light show, and see all the radiation being thrown off by the magical fighting you'd already know where everyone is with just normal sensors. Magic just isn’t needed as far as sensors go in space combat.

Oh also 10k post apparently, sweet.
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