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Old 2004-02-28, 14:28   Link #101
Elepsis
Lives under a bridge
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
...

Wow.

Okay, I'll keep my comments brief so I don't start flaming some of the people who (IMHO) quite deserve it.

The distro method is entirely up to the fansubber, and you have no right to complain about it. I sure as hell don't sub for you people or anyone else except myself -- While I do my best to make sure my group's releases are accessible because I like the shows I work on and want to give people the opportunity to watch them, in the long run I don't care about distro at all. I see no need to go out there and jump through hoops to make things easier for leechers. If I find it more convenient for myself to not use BT, I won't. And if you don't like it, you can go download another group's release instead of mine (hell, everything's being subbed by at least two groups these days).

What leechers need to realize is that distro isn't the goal of fansubbing; distro is but a sideffect of a fansubber who likes the show he works on _for him/herself_ wanting to share it with others. Be thankful that there is so much effort going into it as it is.
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Old 2004-02-28, 14:31   Link #102
vio5555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
It hosts most of the SomethingAwful channels, and that's the largest community on the Internet, period. I don't think 200 anime groups of 20 members each would hurt it that much more.
Alright the record needs to be set clear here on the sizes of the anime groups; according to you there are around 4000 people on all of the anime groups.

Although many people are doubled up in channels: here is the relative break down before mircx went under:
These are the stats for the Big 4, the largest four groups before the crash.
AonE = 3000 people
ANBU = 2500
AKeep = 2000
AKraze = 1600

And there were quite a few (5-10) groups with 1000 like AJ, and many, many more small groups with a couple hundred members.

I dont know where you're throwing around 200 anime groups of 20 people, but get the facts straight, we're talking about 10000+ people all told, and thats an underestimate because there are dozens of groups; 10000+ people might only include the people in the largest 10-20 groups, while the other dozens of small groups with hundreds of members will also follow the big groups to a network.

Last edited by vio5555; 2004-02-28 at 15:15.
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Old 2004-02-28, 19:01   Link #103
Kasshin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vio5555
Alright the record needs to be set clear here on the sizes of the anime groups; according to you there are around 4000 people on all of the anime groups.

Although many people are doubled up in channels: here is the relative break down before mircx went under:
These are the stats for the Big 4, the largest four groups before the crash.
AonE = 3000 people
ANBU = 2500
AKeep = 2000
AKraze = 1600

And there were quite a few (5-10) groups with 1000 like AJ, and many, many more small groups with a couple hundred members.

I dont know where you're throwing around 200 anime groups of 20 people, but get the facts straight, we're talking about 10000+ people all told, and thats an underestimate because there are dozens of groups; 10000+ people might only include the people in the largest 10-20 groups, while the other dozens of small groups with hundreds of members will also follow the big groups to a network.
But, a lot of the people in each of the "big chans" are the same people. An accurate way to find just how many users there are, would be to ask an IRCOP from Rizon, I guess. I've heard some of them talking about how their user peak has grown a lot since the anime chans moved over. Oh, and btw, Rizon's vhosts are sooo cool.


BT is a downloading protocol. IRC is more of a chatting protocol. In terms of downloading effectiveness, BT is better in some areas. But, you can not chat on BT. You can not really compare the two protocols, and say that one is "better" than the other, but you may compare certain aspects of them. Also, IRC is pretty much real time. So it is very, very fast. For BT, you kind of have to wait ~30 minutes before one of the sites that track new releases scans it. Groups release on IRC before/at the time they release the file on BT, and usually do some sort of announcement using /notice. So, even if you are a smart BT leecher and take advantage of animesuki's RSS feeds, or if you are one of the fans that constantly reload the main page... you would still be slower than IRC leechers.

The following is assuming the group has decent distro. I do not know of any groups that have extremely good BT distro but extremely bad IRC distro, so in general IRC IS faster than BT for most groups.

IRC:
1) You see the channel topic change or you see one of the announcements (/notice)
2) You lookup the bots and see where to download, OR you type the trigger for pack lists everyone else around you are typing (monkey see, monkey do).
3) You start downloading the file.
On my connection, (~150 kb/s download) I have the file ~15 minutes after it is released. Faster for most people.

BT:
1) ~30 minutes after the group releases on BT, animesuki puts it on the site.
2) You click the torrent file.
3) You start downloading (and uploading) the file.
On my connection, if I use the dialup settings, I should get around ~100 kb/s download on average. I have the file ~1 hour after it is released. Slower if I don't cap my upload (as it slows down download).

So um, in terms of speed, IRC is definitely faster. I have no idea where that letter thing ashibaka was doing earlier on came from... as IRC is definitely a lot faster than BT. :shrug:
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Old 2004-02-28, 20:52   Link #104
vio5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasshin
But, a lot of the people in each of the "big chans" are the same people. An accurate way to find just how many users there are, would be to ask an IRCOP from Rizon, I guess. I've heard some of them talking about how their user peak has grown a lot since the anime chans moved over. Oh, and btw, Rizon's vhosts are sooo cool.


BT is a downloading protocol. IRC is more of a chatting protocol. In terms of downloading effectiveness, BT is better in some areas. But, you can not chat on BT. You can not really compare the two protocols, and say that one is "better" than the other, but you may compare certain aspects of them. Also, IRC is pretty much real time. So it is very, very fast. For BT, you kind of have to wait ~30 minutes before one of the sites that track new releases scans it. Groups release on IRC before/at the time they release the file on BT, and usually do some sort of announcement using /notice. So, even if you are a smart BT leecher and take advantage of animesuki's RSS feeds, or if you are one of the fans that constantly reload the main page... you would still be slower than IRC leechers.

The following is assuming the group has decent distro. I do not know of any groups that have extremely good BT distro but extremely bad IRC distro, so in general IRC IS faster than BT for most groups.

IRC:
1) You see the channel topic change or you see one of the announcements (/notice)
2) You lookup the bots and see where to download, OR you type the trigger for pack lists everyone else around you are typing (monkey see, monkey do).
3) You start downloading the file.
On my connection, (~150 kb/s download) I have the file ~15 minutes after it is released. Faster for most people.

BT:
1) ~30 minutes after the group releases on BT, animesuki puts it on the site.
2) You click the torrent file.
3) You start downloading (and uploading) the file.
On my connection, if I use the dialup settings, I should get around ~100 kb/s download on average. I have the file ~1 hour after it is released. Slower if I don't cap my upload (as it slows down download).

So um, in terms of speed, IRC is definitely faster. I have no idea where that letter thing ashibaka was doing earlier on came from... as IRC is definitely a lot faster than BT. :shrug:
As of now, there are a bit over 10k more people on rizon.net than there were before the mircx ddos attacks, the number of people on rizon went from roughly 19k before to 29k now. As of now most of the channels are at 80% full strength, so I guess you could say that there will probably between 12k and 14k people on irc in the anime groups on rizon, and that excludes a few groups which moved to different networks.
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Old 2004-02-28, 21:44   Link #105
CompShrink
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Well, this is only my personal experience, but BT is often as fast or faster than xdcc. I can often get an ep in 5-35 min on BT, when getting a popular show, or 10-30 min on IRC. The time it takes on BT varies more, but the max fast speed is usually more.

IRC isn't that complicated, but many people aren't used to command line interfaces, and so it seems wierd and less comfortable to them than BT. Whatever people want to do. I think being released on both is the best, just leave the options open.
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Old 2004-02-29, 18:27   Link #106
darkintragedy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Those who use bittorrent behind a router or university line, are the ones who usually complain about 'slow speeds'. I've experienced both, and I can say that both are equally as fast for me. However, I do prefer xdcc more, because I like to chat with fellow fans while downloading. That's the only reaosn I use xdcc.
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Old 2004-03-02, 01:24   Link #107
wraith985
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I think it's extremely ironic that people who complain about IRC being slow stupid and inefficient treat it like the second coming of whatever deity you want to put here as soon as the BT tracker for their anime of choice goes down.

If you want to use BT, use BT. If you want to use IRC, use IRC. It's your place to decidee which method of distribution you wish to use. It is NOT your place to tell fansub groups how they should distribute the files they work so hard on. If they want to release all of their files IRC-only, you'd better learn those IRC skills quick.

I'm refraining from flaming, as Elepsis did, but please note that some of you absolutely deserve it, with the attitudes you guys are copping. Spoiled anime fans, indeed; crying about a release not being put out on their download method of choice. Next thing you know, we'll have Kazaa leechers complaining that we don't put files there.
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Old 2004-03-02, 01:33   Link #108
Kasshin
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I think the chat thing about IRC is usually what turns people off, though. They hear "Chat" and they think "a/s/l chatrooms". No, it's not like that at all. Keep an open mind, and actually try it out. It is interesting talking with fellow anime fans, and it's not geeky at all! Okay, maybe it is, but it doesn't have to FEEL geeky. But, if you're a forum user, I don't see why you won't like IRC. It's like the forums, except in real time. You get to know people a lot better, with lines and lines of chat, compared to a couple posts on forums. I can't force you to do anything, but I seriously recommend that you check IRC out, no matter what. If you get bashed or insulted for being a n00b, you can always join another chan, and it'd be like starting all over. Try checking out an IRC n00bie guide or two first before talking, and I'm sure people won't treat you as badly as they would to people who are completely clueless.
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Old 2004-03-02, 01:48   Link #109
vio5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasshin
I think the chat thing about IRC is usually what turns people off, though. They hear "Chat" and they think "a/s/l chatrooms". No, it's not like that at all. Keep an open mind, and actually try it out. It is interesting talking with fellow anime fans, and it's not geeky at all! Okay, maybe it is, but it doesn't have to FEEL geeky. But, if you're a forum user, I don't see why you won't like IRC. It's like the forums, except in real time. You get to know people a lot better, with lines and lines of chat, compared to a couple posts on forums. I can't force you to do anything, but I seriously recommend that you check IRC out, no matter what. If you get bashed or insulted for being a n00b, you can always join another chan, and it'd be like starting all over. Try checking out an IRC n00bie guide or two first before talking, and I'm sure people won't treat you as badly as they would to people who are completely clueless.
Yeah, its not this community of techno-geeks making 1337 slurs at newbies; most of the people in the channels who actually chat are probably going to help you figure out how to use all the commands and do whatever you want to do on irc. I guess I would hope that you all try it, especially now, when connections have gotten so much better, queues have virtually dissolved on the large groups' bots (smaller groups are working to that goal), and you get to talk in real time which is awesome and definitely worth trying out, you could even use the animesuki channel your first time to get a feel for it.
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Old 2004-03-02, 01:56   Link #110
NoSanninWa
Weapon of Mass Discussion
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasshin
But, if you're a forum user, I don't see why you won't like IRC. It's like the forums, except in real time. You get to know people a lot better, with lines and lines of chat, compared to a couple posts on forums.
Some people prefer IRC while others prefer Forums. I really like Forums better. Often IRC is disjointed and confusing with different conversation trying to happen at once and there is never any time to really think about what you're writing. Not to mention that it is irritating to wait for someone to respond.

I definitely prefer forums.

On the other hand, some times IRC is the best way to contact someone. Certain types of conversation happen better in that medium also. It is also the best way to get releases from certain groups.

That's why I use IRC despite not liking it in general.
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Old 2004-03-02, 20:53   Link #111
Shii
Afflicted by the vanities
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fish-shape Paumanok
Age: 27
I would like to know if anyone has actually ever gained insight or entertainment from IRC. There was a big thread about this on SomethingAwful and most people admitted they never did.
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Old 2004-03-02, 21:09   Link #112
Forse
r00t for life
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
I would like to know if anyone has actually ever gained insight or entertainment from IRC. There was a big thread about this on SomethingAwful and most people admitted they never did.
I think that would need a new thread (even I find it 100% pointless), since it's not about XDCC vs BT and yes I remember having a lot of fun and actually laughing out loud.
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Old 2004-03-02, 21:13   Link #113
vio5555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
I would like to know if anyone has actually ever gained insight or entertainment from IRC. There was a big thread about this on SomethingAwful and most people admitted they never did.
There must be a reason why 12k people idle in anime channels and many of these people are on even when they aren't dling stuff on irc; the original point of irc was for chatting, so if people didn't enjoy the chat they would leave. You can definitey have some amazing and entertaining arguments on irc, I discussed gay marriage with this guy for 2.5 hours. You realize it would take weeks to have a 2.5 hour discussion in forums. You could just as easily apply your analogy for vhs trading to chatting in forums.
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Old 2004-03-02, 23:11   Link #114
Spyre
"Soon"
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
I would like to know if anyone has actually ever gained insight or entertainment from IRC. There was a big thread about this on SomethingAwful and most people admitted they never did.
Just because you hate IRC and everything about it doesn't mean everyone else does. I enjoy talking to people who are friendly and entertaining. Watching you troll this thread though makes me realize that if people forced everyone into IRC channels then someone, somewhere, would have to put up with you and your incessant bitching. So maybe having both BT and IRC releases is for the best, isnt it?
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Old 2004-03-03, 00:56   Link #115
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyre
Just because you hate IRC and everything about it doesn't mean everyone else does. I enjoy talking to people who are friendly and entertaining. Watching you troll this thread though makes me realize that if people forced everyone into IRC channels then someone, somewhere, would have to put up with you and your incessant bitching. So maybe having both BT and IRC releases is for the best, isnt it?
Very well said.
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Old 2004-03-03, 01:13   Link #116
Umbrae
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoroshiyaX
It is still the preferred method for those who can use IRC, since you get an instant send almost immediately, and completed at a fraction of the time it takes to complete a BT download.
I know and do use IRC for various reasons, but I prefer a BT download for new anime.

no queues, you are not limited by the upload speed of the one IRC bot running, you do not have to wait for some one dialup to finnish before you can start.

Downloads do not take longer on BT, that is higly subjective. for example, I often get better download times off torrent for a new release than I do off IRC. before taking queue times into account.

IRC is still king for a file a few days after it has been released. one week out, you will still have a few seeders and leechers in BT. after a month, unless it is note worthy, GL finding a seeder. in IRC, you can download a 2 year old file just as easly as the newest release of XXX series. . . actualy hope XXX was not released today, less you will be in queue lines again
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Old 2004-03-03, 01:20   Link #117
AOforever1
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Thumbs up

Well, in a general stand-point of view, this all comes down to what suits your needs.

XDCC Example:
I met this college student on IRC that couldn't download through BT because of application restrictions! (happens a lot .... damn colleges)

Bittorrent Example:
For some people IRC is too much of a hassle to learn and use or some people don't have the nerve to wait in line for their download.

Summary:
The more I think about this, BT and XDCC sorta cancels out xD
This is simply a INTERPRETATION! I'm not rooting for either software
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Old 2012-08-02, 05:37   Link #118
raikou
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Quote:
modem
Quote:
50kb/s
Quote:
naruto
This thread makes me want to cry. ;_;
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Old 2012-08-02, 09:07   Link #119
sylviana
Aikawa Kizuna is PRETTY !
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neo-Venezia
Is it okay to bump an 8 years thread?

I found that BT and XDCC have their own goodness. I'm a faithful Rizon resident. I'm idling there almost 24/7

But most of the time, I use BT because I can stop it anytime and anywhere too with bittorent remote! It can also continue my unfinished XDCC file.

But if I can't wait till there's enough seeder, I just go to #news and @find [crc number]. I can get high speed at fresh release anime
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Old 2013-04-11, 07:37   Link #120
~ VEGETA ~
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can you suggest a good and cheap server to buy for a new group?

one that I can use xdcc and seeding torrent with cuz some of them can't.
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