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View Poll Results: Nanoha StrikerS - Overall series rating
Perfect 10 47 16.04%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 51 17.41%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 57 19.45%
7 out of 10 : Good 62 21.16%
6 out of 10 : Average 44 15.02%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 8 2.73%
4 out of 10 : Poor 11 3.75%
3 out of 10 : Bad 3 1.02%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.34%
1 out of 10 : Painful 9 3.07%
Voters: 293. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-09-24, 10:52   Link #21
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
So you're telling me you'd take the ending where The Most Powerful Thing In Existence stands there and takes every single ultimate attack that is thrown at it (without even doing anything remotely interesting besides wiggling its tentacles), and then is finally thrown up into space to be Arc-en-ciel'ed into oblivion; over the ending where the antagonists fought back, and could have won if 1) they had more brains between their metallic skulls, and 2) they weren't up against anime conventions where the bad guys have to lose to the good guys?

Interesting.
You're refering to the last battle then, not the actual ending.

You see, StrikerS final battle is a hold-back session with Vivio, rather than an actual fight.

What you meant when you said the antagonists fought back and that they lose because of point 1 and 2, is the Numbers vs RF6. Now when compared to A's, that scene in A's would be the fight Nanoha and Fate had with Reinforce.

Now tell me which is better?
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Old 2007-09-24, 10:55   Link #22
Nemesis
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okay,maybe my judgement was clouded.A's is better in the sense the they didt hold back.

Just wish they took out Erio,Caro and lutecia.
But seriously it intrigues me how they are able to create good characters like Erio,Caro and Lutecia but not the same for vivio.
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Old 2007-09-24, 22:37   Link #23
krisslanza
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I think Vivio comes off as a bad character because people view her as a moe-blob and NxF fanservice, that and they find her way of acting annoying. But really I think it's appropriate given her age and the fact she really had no one who cared about her, her crying may have annoyed some people but I know it really hurt having to hear her screams in... I forget which episode.

And even though people point out a lack of knowledge of things they'd like to know, I almost like it in a way. I don't know, maybe because I read lots of fanfiction and I tend to like to see what they can conjure up. *Shrug*

But eh, I'm just a crazy college girl who has a very stubborn opinion and awkward logic as my friend's say...
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Old 2007-09-24, 23:13   Link #24
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
I think Vivio comes off as a bad character because people view her as a moe-blob and NxF fanservice, that and they find her way of acting annoying. But really I think it's appropriate given her age and the fact she really had no one who cared about her, her crying may have annoyed some people but I know it really hurt having to hear her screams in... I forget which episode.
You know, there is nothing wrong with her being such. There is nothing good as well.

And if Vivio had the same level of character and intelligence in the previous episodes like her last 2, where despite still being mama-mama, wasn't all that blobby and fluffy and was more 7-10 years old like than 4-5 years old, then it wouldn't be so bad. Since the key point was to introduce the element of Nanoha-mama and her drive of wanting to work hard for her sake, what's wrong with making it more emotionally connected with a better character?

If you ask my opinion, Vivio's element as a character should've been there to clearly emphasis that Nanoha is a flawed mother/parent figure, yet despite that, Vivio loves her , and Nanoha too on a very emotional basis. But that element was diluted for moe instead, and the more emotional ones got a one minute flashback during the battle along some other scenes as opposed to actually integrating them into the happy moe moments.

That's a flaw right there. Both with direction and character.
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Old 2007-09-25, 04:49   Link #25
Ultima_Rasengan05
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Despite StrikerS' story having a cluttered and messed up storyline, atleast we can note that Nana Mizuki and Yukari Tamura both did a good job on the opening and ending theme songs for this season. Most likely, StrikerS had the best songs out of the previous two seasons and the ending theme songs didn't have that "happy" feel to it, even though it is still called a "Shoujo" type of show.

Although it would have been an interesting turnabout for StrikerS to include death to one of its main characters, despite its "magical girl" theme, but remember, we did get death in the previous seasons (precia and Reinforce I) and we did get three people that died in this season (Zest, Regius, and Due...I think she's dead).

Even though Vivio was blamed for StrikerS' story to go bad, maybe they used that influence to show us that she could be the upcoming rising star that might take over the fourth season as the new main character and lead heroine. But its no excuse for not letting her get proper character development though. Vivio had potential, just like how Caro and Erio were supposed to get proper character development also. Not to mention Lutecia also.

EDIT I will miss StrikerS and the feeling of anticipation that happens every week when the new episode was going to premiere...even though if the episode was full of meaningless talk or was action packed.
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Old 2007-09-25, 05:36   Link #26
Flar
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Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS

Third season of the famous show Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, StrikerS was faced with the challenge of meeting the expectations set by the excellent second season, A's. To accomplish this, the producers decided to be wildly original, break totally from the Mahou Shoujo genre, and make their heroines working adults in a world where magic power is normal and totally integrated in society.

Now, what did they make of it?

The good
The setting is very interesting. We knew Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and the old cast were powerful borderline genius mages, and were going to be recognized as the best in their field. The serie begins on that note, with Hayate basically creating a Special Ops / SWAT force, concentrating all her friends in her unit, as well as many elite mages and prospects with potential.

The new cast has a lot of potential, with abilities that differ from the usual superpowerful artillery shots. The manga hinted at situations where conventional powerhouses like Nanoha, Fate or Hayate would be helpless alone, and this was a great opportunity to shoe-in the new recruits in the team, make the fights more team-oriented and tactically sound while still delivering the epic feeling fights such as Reinforce versus Nanoha and Fate had.

The old cast, in turn, also has a lot of potential. Of course, we already knew them from the previous seasons, but ten years passed by, where they would have changed, evolved, learned to master their abilities, entered relationships and at least developped their own personality. The timeskip made them adults but they are still at an age where they should be in first year of university, so it's not like they should be more serious than any University student, less, considering their superstar status.

The bad
Essentially, all this potential is wasted:
The worldbuilding is inexistant. You would have thought that being in a new world, we would have had some moments devoted to make it feel alive, so that we could care if it was destroyed or something, but no, what we get is rooms where redundant characters drink tea, panning shots over the capital where whole districts are still in ruin from an incident years ago, and an overdose of uninhabitated training grounds. Not even scenes where we could glimpse random citizens going about their business, or interactions with city facilities like bars, train stations or newspaper organisations. It is sad that it is in the manga that we get most of it, including mention that Nanoha is famous enough to be interviewed by magazines and called a genius.

Bad guys are underwhelming for the most part of the season. A's set the bar somewhat high, having the antagonists crushing the heroes with style in the first episode, none of that here: what we get is non-threatening drones without personality backed by a barely articulate loli with an uncomprehensible and ultimately irrelevant and shallow motivation.

The story was a rehash of the two previous seasons, oddly mixed together, to form a dubious compound, where at first it seemed to focus on relics (read: jewel seed) incidents, a loli working to ressurect her mother and project F (The Fate cloning project, shocking) to veer radically during the second part toward a Belka device destroying the world, complete with team to protect it and a friend becoming the ultimate bad guy. If you compare Jail to Signum or Vivio to Hayate, though, the new guys don't hold a candle to the old guard, except in the maniacal laughter department, of course.

The ugly
The first thing to mention is character development. You can forgive a ghost world if the characters are vibrant enough to make you forget about it, but in StrikerS development is a lost art. The old cast feels like only their body grew while everything else stayed the same or became worse, like in Fate's case, where she now needs help to cope with psychological dilemnas, or with falling rubble. The new cast, for all the training they went through, showed little personality beside the traits established at the beginning. Once again, the manga is the place where they get the most development, and the anime focuses on showing them training, again and again, and AGAIN... There is really a limit at how many times you can watch a good guy crush a soulless drone. If you compare it to the previous seasons, Nanoha's training was done offscreen, and the anime only gave us the real fights. Hell, even the Volkenritters blasting through weak opponents was done in fast forward, in half an episode, and only to develop their dedication to Hayate.

The storytelling devices. How clumsy can you get? The old guard was powerful, very powerful, so something had to be done to let the newbies shine and develop, so we got AMF and limiters, to restrict what adults could do. This was already a poor choice, however, since it clashed with fanservice AND common sense, they had to resort to something more drastic: shafting, in other words, inconsistency to whole other level. The old guard becomes unavailable when stuff hits the fan, and seem to have developped a whole host of weakness they didn't have before. Hayate is like the poster girl for this category, she has multiple devices, is more powerful than Nanoha, and should be as scary as Reinforce 1, yet the only thing she does is freeze an airport, blast drones and look out of breath. Not like she could have nuked all the numbers, or the summons in one shot, right? right? Wrong! but the newbies needed some spotlight.

The pacing. Oh god the pacing. When by episode 10 nothing more significant than Nanoha blasting Tea out of the sky during practice had happened, you just knew there was a problem. Half the serie gone and it was really all training, irrelevant infodumping and drones slaughter, the plot didn't move an inch. Even the incident with Tea proved to be worthless in the end... Tea did the thing she was blasted for immediatly after she recovered, and Nanoha's injuries or the implication that going full power could be dangerous was never mentioned again.

The fanservice. This one is really the worst offense. I have nothing against fanservice in general, but in StrikerS case, it destroyed the show. Most will mention Vivio at this point, but I think she really is the tip of the iceberg. Thing is, the animators tried to please everyone but without commiting themselves, so what we got was a lot of inconsistent hints, going in all directions, and animation time devoted to useless devices. Case in point, Nanoha and Fate's relationship... if you want them to be together, do it, don't give us these halfassed hints, and move on from that, the show shouldn't be about how you can imply something without actually confirming it.
In the same order of idea, if you cannot cope with a huge cast, forget about adding the moe loli or the boy. If you cannot develop it, don't give a unison with Hayate's own device to everyone but her. Noone needs to see Chrono sitting somewhere looking bored drinking tea. Noone needs transformation sequences taking half an episode and so disconnected from the story that they would fit more easily in a fighting game. Make some damn choices, stick to them, streamline your story and get going, godammit.

Conclusion
Some good ideas, a lot of potential, but a rehashed story with a very weak execution.

My rating: POOR (4/10)
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Old 2007-09-25, 07:41   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Flar
No one needs transformation sequences taking half an episode
The full transformation sequences took up less than a third of an episode in ep5. And they only used it again one other time in ep11. Yes, that second time was a waste, but it was still far better than, say, Sailor Moon, where you got the transformation sequence for 5 girls (or more) every single episode!
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Old 2007-09-25, 07:56   Link #28
Nightengale
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The full transformation sequences took up less than a third of an episode in ep5. And they only used it again one other time in ep11. Yes, that second time was a waste, but it was still far better than, say, Sailor Moon, where you got the transformation sequence for 5 girls (or more) every single episode!
To be fair, Sailor Moon had the time-privilege to do that, since the anime is mostly Filler Moon to begin with. With tighter direction and pacing closer to the actual manga, 50 to 70 episodes would be more than enough to cover the entire Sailor Moon saga, not 200. It's only 18 volumes worth of story, including some of those irrelevant side-stories.

StrikerS, doesn't have that kind of leisure though.
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Old 2007-09-25, 09:20   Link #29
Flar
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
The full transformation sequences took up less than a third of an episode in ep5. And they only used it again one other time in ep11. Yes, that second time was a waste, but it was still far better than, say, Sailor Moon, where you got the transformation sequence for 5 girls (or more) every single episode!
If you take all the time devoted to transformation throughout the serie, I think it amounts to half an episode at least, but I have a tendency to exagerate to get my point across, the exact time wasted isn't very important.

My point is that we actually don't need transformation scenes, since the anime isn't a magical girl anime anymore, except in title, but if we absolutely must have them, we don't need them to be so long or ending on an eyecatch that makes me wish a villiain would attack at that moment. Instant switch from normal to barrier jacket is so much more efficient.

This is very tied to the fanservice criticism, the producers should learn to let go of redundant devices, once they decided StrikerS would be 26 episodes of SWAT with magical rods, they should have seen that long involved individual transformations didn't fit in anymore, except to please some fans. They are as bad as Vivio, in a way.

Not to mention, if you transform some of the heroes, transform them all. It really adds to the show's inconsistency to have some people change with a flash or offscreen when others have minutes of panty shots.

Of course I have to admit that what I think was the best transformation of the season was Hayate changing in her barrier jacket in episode 1. It was simple, fast, dynamic and did give a feeling of underlying power. Longer transformations felt just like ridiculous and out of place fanservice, that an onsen/Earth episode would have taken care of while actually developping the characters.
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Old 2007-09-25, 14:57   Link #30
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I think StrikerS will end up being one of those series you remember fondly, because while the bad parts were kinda clunky and boring, it still delivered some really awesome moments. I also liked the tactical aspects of Strikers, as Flar mentioned, as it takes a whole army of scrub mages to hold off the enemy long enough for Nanoha to get all the glory and chat it up with the enemy.

What I just can't understand is why the Nanoha franchise cannot secure a decent animation team. Can you imagine how much better all these series would look if they had a better budget/team? Why no funding? It's not like Nanoha is an unknown quantity at this point.
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Old 2007-09-25, 20:20   Link #31
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What I just can't understand is why the Nanoha franchise cannot secure a decent animation team. Can you imagine how much better all these series would look if they had a better budget/team? Why no funding? It's not like Nanoha is an unknown quantity at this point.
If you want an opinion, I think Seven Arcs is a perfectly fine animation production team. They (and StarChild/King Records) just happen to not care all that much about the TV broadcast. I wouldn't exactly say it's only a ploy to get people to buy the DVDs, but it's obvious that's where they make their money. I assume it's a trend you'll continue to see more of in this market.
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Old 2007-09-25, 21:16   Link #32
krisslanza
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Well the thing with transformation scenes is they ARE instant. As shown in MSLN and A's a few times, they really switch to the barrier jacket in a split second. We just get it shown in slow-mo for fanservice... And StrikerS is still magical girl, even if it's really more of 'magical woman' since Caro is the only lead girl (aside from Vivio, but her's is when she matures anyway).
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Old 2007-09-26, 06:30   Link #33
Julius Firefocht
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Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS.

So much mixed feelings for this show. On one hand, it has some really awesome fight sequences, and Fate in sonic form. On the other hand, the enemies were too lackluster and failed to put up an epic struggle against the RF6.

I will be honest, I was hoping for mass bloodshed. The potential for deaths and massive killings was present with such a large group of enemies. It would be nice if the Old Guard finally cut loose and went all out while the newbies gawked in awe and admiration while trying to catch up, but it never happened.

Vivio being taken away gave me hope that Nanoha's killer and maternal instincts would awaken, but that never really happened either. Blasting Quattro with 5 Divine Busters was cool, but Nanoha could have done so much more with her sheer power. The same applied to Fate and Hayate, especially Hayate.

With hindsight, the entire Season 3 seems to be a prequel to a main story, a grander story where everyone would kick ass like back in A's. The signs are all there, with new abilities (Sonic Form and Blaster Mode) and gadgets (Subaru's dual knuckles) being unveiled at such a late stage of the whole series. Jail could still easily break out of jail (bad pun intended) with the help of some powerful secret organization using whole armies of cloned cyborgs this time round. The possibilities are present.

Of course, one could blame it on poor pacing, but that remains to be seen. However, I must say that if one looks at the series from the perspective of a story that spans 52 episodes, then suddenly the pacing for StrikerS might start to make some sense.

If StrikerS is to the 4th Season what Nanoha was to A's, then perhaps, just perhaps, we can retain that little bit of hope. After all, I personally consider StrikerS better than the first season, and I did enjoy the show despite its shortcomings.
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Old 2007-09-26, 09:54   Link #34
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From even before it started I already had the feeling this one would be bad, yet this show still managed to be even worse than I feared it would be.
The military setting which came with very obedient trainees and a retarded power limiter for the 'old hags' Nanoha&co, the lack of plot for more than half of the series, the huge amount of new characters I never cared about .. there were just too many aspects of this show I disliked.

With a lot less characters and more budget, the story might have filled 13 eps, but I'm not even sure of that. Execution was just bad, and that won't change in the DVD version, no matter how much more pretty they make a few frames.

The only positive part I remember: in ep25, Nanoha remembered that she once was a fighter who could do a bit more than just shoot down all gadgets within range and actually performed something a bit more sophisticated.

My rating: Poor (4/10) <- and that's still a fanboy rating
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Old 2007-09-26, 10:58   Link #35
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The only positive part I remember: in ep25, Nanoha remembered that she once was a fighter who could do a bit more than just shoot down all gadgets within range and actually performed something a bit more sophisticated.
Actually, the WAS activated on Ep24, so that makes it the first of Nanoha's stratagems that took 2 episodes to come to an end! Makes one wonder why she didn't start her reconaissance when she entered...

Back to commenting about the show, there isn't much left to mention, but I feel betrayed.

The strategic goal for the show is laudable enough. The tactics used in each episode were hit or miss, and I've commented on most of the episodes since Ep17 here. But the worst is the operational art and the art of Operational Troop Control.

Mistake #1: The composition of Maneuver Elements (characters) for both Blue and Red Forces were done poorly. High Capability Combat Maneuver Elements (Aces and Knights) were forced to work with Low Capability Combat Maneuver Elements (Forwards). This is in despite of an Strategic Directive that mandates that all Combat Maneuver Elements be employed. This constraint combined with poor selection led to crappy and implausible tactics (limiters) to ensure the Strategic Directive is minimally met.

Mistake #2: The Troop Control for the Maneuver Elements was done poorly. Given the limited time available, precise scheduling and troop control is required to ensure all of the excessive number of elements have the space and time to correctly deploy (Character Development), and to ensure they pass through required Phase Lines in good order and on time. In the end, too much time was consumed in passing through certain Maneuver Units (Vivio being the showcase) and having the various elements pass through various phase lines. Due to this failure of Troop Control, most characters are inadequately deployed, and one Major Combat Maneuver Unit was permanently damaged.

Mistake #3: The final choice of Decisive Sector was poor, choosing the boggiest, sector, to be spearheaded by the weakest Maneuver Element.

Mistake #3a: Nevertheless, had a slightly different attack sector been chosen (such as making Vivio a little bigger so she can have a real personality), followed by extensive, time-consuming reinforcement of the Maneuver Element and extensive engineer preparation (episodes of Vivio character development), it could have been made a usable attack route. Instead, too much time was wasted either on indecisiveness or a deliberate deception effort that took up too much of the precious Time resource.

Mistake #4: The allocation of limited supplies was done poorly. This leads to an unstable supply situation as the Elements try to advance (i.e. the varying animation quality). Nothing is more demoralizing than varying rations.

So, with all these failures, and all the tactical goofs, it is either 1 or 2 out of 10. This is despite the fact that most episodes will have gotten over 5 from me. Operational Art decides wars and anime.
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Old 2007-09-26, 17:42   Link #36
serenade_beta
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Ah, It's over. The show is over. *stretch*

If I ignore my grudge against the good guys (that really came out of nowhere, I think), this wasn't that bad of a show.

Of course, the training episodes and set-up episodes and talking episodes were too large in amount.

The climax was pretty bad (the creators should take hints from Code Geass)

And I never liked the ending theme (both of them) (Too much Nanoha )

But the action episodes (the few this show has) were exciting and fun to watch.

Now putting in my grudge in, I hanged on to this show for just one real reason:

Jail Scaglietti. The moment he appeared in episode 5 or something, I was like "Hooray!" or something of that sort. He's great, placing in my "best male main characters list" and made the show soooooo much better. Ahh~~ Too bad he wasn't really developed. We got "crazy, uses people like tools, makes the weirdest faces, sparks ten-page discussions, and someone from that place (Al Hazard?). So what is that...

2 smaller reasons are:

1. Numbers

2. I don't like quitting halfway (or even quarter-way)

Ah, but then... Episode 26... Boy that episode was devastating. I felt pretty bad after that episode. All respect (and the little bit love) I had was shattered into many tiny pieces. EVERYTHING went wrong (to me), and well, it wasn't pretty. Plus, the idiocy of taking out Cinque for (how many?) episodes and bringing her back all of a sudden made zero sense

I congratulate this show on achieving several things:

I won't see the word "number" the same ever again, nor the Roman numerals
I learned several car names
I realized just how much one episode can affect my thoughts on a whole series
My respect for the series dropped severely, while my respect for the season dropped to negative numbers.

I give you a 1, StrikerS.

Sayonara, Zetsubou Sensei Nanoha StrikerS.
Don't come back
I won't miss you
Maybe I'll miss Jail
And maybe Quattro
And maybe Otto
Though she defected
And I lost quite a bit of interest in her
And Cinque
Though the writers hate her
Though she defected

*throws salt at StrikerS*

Purge!
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Old 2007-09-26, 19:36   Link #37
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Well, the beginning was pretty slow with all that training and gadget fighting. But it started getting better with all the cyborgs and everything especially ep 17. And the rest were really good to.
Do I want a 4th season- I guess it wouldn't hurt
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Old 2007-09-27, 03:22   Link #38
Ultima_Rasengan05
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Man, reading all these reviews and alot of people really hated StrikerS...if theres this much hate for a season of a series that was great in the past for its amazing uniqueness in its genre (mahou shoujo genre), then would it be wise to do a remake or a redo for StrikerS?
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Old 2007-09-27, 03:23   Link #39
BBM
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No, it would be old news.
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Old 2007-09-27, 03:39   Link #40
Ultima_Rasengan05
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well, I guess I should have given the series a much lower score, since I find myself agreeing to these reviews about StrikerS. Being a new fan of Nanoha this year just made me give StrikerS a high score because it was Nanoha.

If I had to rank the seasons from best to worst, it would be:
1. A's
2. First season
3. StrikerS

I don't know though, StrikerS and the first season are almost in a tie in my book, both had their slow parts and such, but StrikerS was no exception with having almost half the season full of fillers.
I guess theres a pattern...if you want instant action from start to finish, go watch A's.
Want all talking and somewhat amazing battles, go watch StrikerS.
If you want a mix of both, go watch the first season.
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