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Old 2007-01-12, 00:12   Link #81
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiramuro
1. Is Katejina a newtype? I am a bit on the fence on this one.
I don't think that Victory confirms it one way or the other. Aesthetically, I'd prefer it if she wasn't a newtype; however, as far as I can tell, it's not really all that important.

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Originally Posted by kiramuro
2. WTF is Tomino smoking when he created those motorad battleships? They are cool but completely useless. Did he have a fascination with motorcyles at the time?
I'm under the impression that he was trying to sabotage Victory. According to the rumors I've heard, he was given a directive to have battleships appear, but Tomino wanted to have that part of the story take place on Earth. It's suggested that the motorads were a compromise.

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Originally Posted by kiramuro
3. Is it me or did the ending to V has a sort of apocalyptic atmosphere to it i.e. like the End of Evangelion. I didn't feel this in any other gundam series I have watched so far. (0079, zeta, zz, 08th MS, CCA, 0080, F91, seed, seed destiny).
I feel exactly the same way. The only other shows to successfully show the desperation of the final battle are Seed and 08th MS Team, and neither of those do so to the degree that Victory manages to.

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Originally Posted by kiramuro
4. Uso fucking pwns! The stuff he does in V is made of legend. I have never seen any other Gundam characters pulling off the daredevil stunts that Uso did in Victory with the exception of Amuro crashing his plane in Zeta.
He's the main reason why Victory is the only Gundam show that has combat choreography I find interesting. Of course, Uso's tactics aren't exactly wise, but at least they look cool.

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Originally Posted by kiramuro
5. V2 gundam has to be the most formidable gundam in UC. Considering it's acceleration capability and nearly unlimited delta V due to it's non-newtonian propulsion system. There is a truth in war in that speed kills. Back in WWII Japanese Zeros got slaughtered by the post-1942 American warplanes such as the F4U-4 Corsair or the Grumman Hellcat mainly because of the massive speed/acceleration advantages in those planes. However I didn't really see Uso use the acceleration capability of V2 that much in the series. I wonder why?
Either the people who assigned V2 it's official specs were overly generous, or it's a case of the combat choreographers not realizing the effect of an overwhelming acceleration advantage. Both possibilities are about as equally likely, and they would be consistent with Sunrise's other mistakes of this nature. To my recollection, mobile suits have pretty much never used their speed advantages properly, and V2 was never shown to move that much faster than its contemporaries.

As an in-universe explanation, it can be explained as a case of Uso's inexperience (and youth) coming into play.

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Originally Posted by kiramuro
6. Why does Chronicle wear his mask? Is he allergic to something or is it purely cosmetic?
Allergies.

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Originally Posted by kiramuro
Finally is it me or did Fukuda just mixed all 4 UC series in a blender and then pour the mixture into two cups named Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny?
Not really. The setting and first part of Seed are definitely based on Mobile Suit Gundam, but most of the other similarities are just cosmetic. Destiny, in particular, isn't really similar to any other Gundam show. The only element of note that it takes from other shows is the Four-Stellar progression.
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Old 2007-01-12, 00:27   Link #82
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And the beam shields, lol.
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Old 2007-01-12, 01:20   Link #83
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To my mind, beam shields, like most technologies, are excellent examples of purely cosmetic similarities; hence they're of little consequence.
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Old 2007-01-25, 23:26   Link #84
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Not really. The setting and first part of Seed are definitely based on Mobile Suit Gundam, but most of the other similarities are just cosmetic. Destiny, in particular, isn't really similar to any other Gundam show. The only element of note that it takes from other shows is the Four-Stellar progression.
I do agree that a lot of it is purely cosmetic or even meant as a homage to UC. However I also think that the plot structures of CE seem to be at least partially based the UC series with Fukuda modifying most of the specifics. By plot structures I don't mean the coming of age for a teenage pilot or the fighting between factions in space plots. Those form the backbone of nearly all gundam series. As you've already mentioned the similarity between MSG and Seed is uncanny. It's very hard to deny that Fukuda based Seed on MSG but now I will also say that the ending in GSD is based on the ending in Victory. Why? Well the similarity in this case is the main method of the antagonist. In MSG/Zeta/ZZ/Seed the bad guys were pretty much traditional fascists. They practiced the usual good stuff: hey lets gas a few million people to death, hey how about we vaporize a few cities along with all of its civilians populations, etc. However in GSD and Victory the dictators are in fact even more sinister in the sense they both want to create "peace" by enslaving an entire population through mind control i.e. reducing human's instinct to struggle. In Victory it's done directly through a psycommu machine and in GSD it's done indirectly by giving everyone a deterministic future.
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Old 2007-01-26, 02:01   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiramuro
As you've already mentioned the similarity between MSG and Seed is uncanny. It's very hard to deny that Fukuda based Seed on MSG but now I will also say that the ending in GSD is based on the ending in Victory.
In the case of Seed, there's no need to deny anything: Sunrise stated from the very beginning that it was supposed to be an updated Mobile Suit Gundam for a new generation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiramuro
Why? Well the similarity in this case is the main method of the antagonist. In MSG/Zeta/ZZ/Seed the bad guys were pretty much traditional fascists. They practiced the usual good stuff: hey lets gas a few million people to death, hey how about we vaporize a few cities along with all of its civilians populations, etc. However in GSD and Victory the dictators are in fact even more sinister in the sense they both want to create "peace" by enslaving an entire population through mind control i.e. reducing human's instinct to struggle. In Victory it's done directly through a psycommu machine and in GSD it's done indirectly by giving everyone a deterministic future.
Aside from the "evil mastermind hatches a dastardly plan to conquer the world" bit, the endings of Victory and Destiny are fundamentally different. In main, the feeling engendered by the respective final episodes are different and are trying to accomplish very different things. Even the part that you speak of, the villain's final goals, aren't really similar to one another. In Victory, the Zanscare leaders are trying to do the exact same thing that UC Gundam villains try to do: to conquer the world. From the beginning, we see them trying to intimidate the people of Earth using the guillotine, etc, and later on, they deploy the motorad battleship squadron to do pretty much the same thing. The Angel Halo is but their final attempt to achieve their original goal. By the end, their position had deteriorated enough that they couldn't hope to defeat their enemies using more conventional means, and so they settled on using a very unconventional one. The Zanscare intentions are ultimately selfish ones.

Durandal's motives were quite different; he was interested in conquering/dominating the world only as a means to his ultimate end: to enact the Destiny Plan. His overall objective wasn't evil at all; in fact, it could be argued that his intentions were well-meaning. Of course, it neither justifies his actions nor does it make him any less of a villain, but Durandal lacks the selfishness inherent in that of the UC villains.
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Old 2007-01-31, 19:33   Link #86
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I

In Victory, the Zanscare leaders are trying to do the exact same thing that UC Gundam villains try to do: to conquer the world. From the beginning, we see them trying to intimidate the people of Earth using the guillotine, etc, and later on, they deploy the motorad battleship squadron to do pretty much the same thing. The Angel Halo is but their final attempt to achieve their original goal. By the end, their position had deteriorated enough that they couldn't hope to defeat their enemies using more conventional means, and so they settled on using a very unconventional one. The Zanscare intentions are ultimately selfish ones.

Durandal's motives were quite different; he was interested in conquering/dominating the world only as a means to his ultimate end: to enact the Destiny Plan. His overall objective wasn't evil at all; in fact, it could be argued that his intentions were well-meaning. Of course, it neither justifies his actions nor does it make him any less of a villain, but Durandal lacks the selfishness inherent in that of the UC villains.
The Destiny plan is the most egregious example of a government trying to squash individual liberty that I have ever seen/heard in popular culture. It's perhaps even worse than 1984. In principle I found such concept to be the utterly digusting even more so than the act of committing genocide. For that reason my impression of Durandal after the revelation of his destiny plan is that he might be the most evil villian in gundam ever (Yes I am a libertarian). There wasn't even a hint of thought in my mind that Chairman Gil might be well intentioned.

Anyways I started this discourse only to see if could figure out the element in the ending of Victory that surprisingly reminded me of GSD's ending. It's clear that the common link is the idea of exterting complete control over individual lives that the villians in the two series tried to accomplish (I thought Zanscare would've went ahead with the Angel Halo no matter what the result of their conventional war was). Other UC villians might've tried conquer the world but their methods would resulted in a lesser form of control.

However you are right that it's implausible to compare any thing in Victory to GSD. I seriously doubt that Fukuda ever sat down and watched Victory since so few gundam fans do.
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Old 2007-04-19, 22:08   Link #87
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Few questions.

Where can I get V Gundam torrent wise. No one seems to have it anymore.

Also whats a legit place to order V Gundam boxset on DVD, I dont want bootleg DVDR copies they sell on Ebay
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Old 2007-04-21, 06:43   Link #88
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Originally Posted by Zohar View Post
Few questions.

Where can I get V Gundam torrent wise. No one seems to have it anymore.
Boxtorrents probably has one, try them.

Quote:
Also whats a legit place to order V Gundam boxset on DVD, I dont want bootleg DVDR copies they sell on Ebay
As far as I know the only legit release of V Gundam is the R2 boxset, which won't have subtitles or a dub.
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Old 2007-09-24, 11:51   Link #89
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Question V Gundam fansub?

A couple of months or so ago, I caught the first ep of Victory Gundam here on a-suki, and for a 90's anime, it was pretty damned good. Exceptional, even - in fact, I found it compared favorably to the CE stuff (OK, since I've only seen the one ep, I can't say for sure, since there hasn't exactly been any opportunity for canned footage yet...)

And then I waited, and waited, and waited, and, you know what - there's still only that one episode available subbed. Which is really sad. I'd love to see what happens next, and MAHQ imagery promises that the mobile suits will look spectacular...

What happened? V Gundam is the last full length UC show, and the last (aired)Gundam show of any length unavailable to the western public (i.e. us drooling fans). In fact, it's one of a bare handfull of animated Gundam productions not listed on the license page... GIVE! :-)

At any rate, here's to hoping I manage to spark some discussion and interest in the show so the subbers pick it back up again - it would give us something *else* to watch in between 00 eps - or a fallback incase 00 flops completely.
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Old 2007-09-24, 12:33   Link #90
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go to crunchyroll.com and sign up, they have them subbed there, and they're streams too which are better
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Old 2007-09-26, 13:36   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winchester
A couple of months or so ago, I caught the first ep of Victory Gundam here on a-suki, and for a 90's anime, it was pretty damned good. Exceptional, even - in fact, I found it compared favorably to the CE stuff (OK, since I've only seen the one ep, I can't say for sure, since there hasn't exactly been any opportunity for canned footage yet...)
Victory Gundam is my favorite Gundam TV show, but there's an awful lot of people out there that don't care for it. While it's considered to be the darkest Gundam show, it also has some of the goofiest elements in the franchise as well (the motorad fleet and the BBBBs come immediately to mind). Your mileage will certainly vary.

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And then I waited, and waited, and waited, and, you know what - there's still only that one episode available subbed. Which is really sad. I'd love to see what happens next, and MAHQ imagery promises that the mobile suits will look spectacular...
Sadly, Victory Gundam has some of the poorest visuals of any shows in the franchise since Mobile Suit Gundam. However, it does have some of the best choreography (a lot of it is of the goofy variety).
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Old 2007-09-26, 19:46   Link #92
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I personally didn't find the Motorrad Fleet to be that goofy. Why waste missiles and beam energy to blow up buildings when those beams and missiles can be fired at enemy mechs while the ships just crush everything under-tire? It worked great for that first city they hit after they landed on earth, then they just blow up whatever is off their course with missiles like they did with that church.
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Old 2007-09-26, 20:10   Link #93
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Sadly, Victory Gundam has some of the poorest visuals of any shows in the franchise since Mobile Suit Gundam. However, it does have some of the best choreography (a lot of it is of the goofy variety).
What's wrong with Victory's visuals?
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Old 2007-09-26, 20:31   Link #94
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What's wrong with Victory's visuals?
To my eye, the animation was at least somewhat under-par for its time with the exectpion of some episodes like the final episode. As a friend of mine said, "G.I.Joe has better animation." And he meant the older G.I.Joe.
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Old 2007-09-26, 20:39   Link #95
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What's wrong with Victory's visuals?
It's only the worse visual production of any Gundam series (I just mean it's general animation, not that the production failed as in GSD's case)...Don't get me wrong it doesn't really hamper my enjoyment because I love old school looking, grimey, gritty, imperfect renderings that give certain series that "homely" feel, but I can understand why one would criticize V-Gundam's visuals...Nevertheless there are some higher produced scenes thru-out the series that are of a better marginal quality...

And yeah GI Joe was better in some instances...If you look at Zeta from 1985, V's not even in the same Colony Zip code when it comes to the depth of animation...I still really enjoyed it though...
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Old 2007-09-26, 21:38   Link #96
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And yeah GI Joe was better in some instances...If you look at Zeta from 1985, V's not even in the same Colony Zip code when it comes to the depth of animation...I still really enjoyed it though...
Just want to confirm something first though... Did you guys watch the horrible subs/hk dvdrips released a few years back and nothing else of the show? I just don't see how anyone could prefer animation like Zeta's (especially its second half) to Victory's.

Of course, if you're talking about art direction or character/mecha designs, I can certainly understand how they can turn people off. Personally, I liked its dreary, dark and desolate settings. It fit the mood of the series quite well, and matched well with the equally dreary and melancholic orchestral music.

And of course, there's the excellent battle choreography, as mentioned earlier.
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Old 2007-09-26, 21:57   Link #97
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I'm talking strictly the depth of the animation and the detail...In lots of instances there is none...From afar sometimes the Gundam or MS would look like crude renderings...Now I did see some DVD eps of V but mostly the fansubbed eps and while you see better smoothness depending on what version you watch you still get a sense of what's real good renderings and what's half-a$$ or marginal...Another key as Shinji noted is the timeframe inwhich V is produced making the animation more criticized...

Now for Zeta, again I've seen both fansubbed and DVD...The DVD kills Victory in the crispness and attention to detail...But even while watching the fansubs I could clearly see an animation effort that was beyond it's time...Victory doesn't have that in the same abundance...As for atmosphere, music, and everything else you mentioned I totally agree...That's why the minor//major flaws in general animation don't really affect my enjoyment of V...Additionally there's some real good production in the end where it counts...
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Old 2007-09-26, 22:10   Link #98
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Another key as Shinji noted is the timeframe inwhich V is produced making the animation more criticized...
I see what you mean, and I somewhat agree. Mid-80's Gundam tend to devote more attention to details. Animation tends to be less choppy than Victory too.

However, from what I've seen of that era (1990-1993) I have to say I can hardly remember any TV anime that was actually animated well (maybe someone can enlighten me though). The 80's were a bit of a renaissance for anime in general, and IMO many of the shows actually had better animation than those of the early 90's.

Tekkaman Blade comes to mind for how crude and low budget shows from that age can be...
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Old 2007-09-26, 22:28   Link #99
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^I mean even Gundam X suffered slightly from this aswell (Although I'd say to a lesser degree than V)...I think Tomino (even in Turn A) seems to have a much more theatrical approach to the G-series, making attention to mecha detail standout, so it was kind of odd to me that Victory is his least detailed-oriented G-series...
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Old 2007-09-26, 23:40   Link #100
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I personally didn't find the Motorrad Fleet to be that goofy. Why waste missiles and beam energy to blow up buildings when those beams and missiles can be fired at enemy mechs while the ships just crush everything under-tire? It worked great for that first city they hit after they landed on earth, then they just blow up whatever is off their course with missiles like they did with that church.
To be honest, it's the kind of plan that I'd expect Marvin the Martian to come up with . If we looked at it from a practicality point of view, the Motorrad Fleet fails in all sorts of ways.

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What's wrong with Victory's visuals?
wingdarkness already covered most of my points, but I think that there's also a certain lack of polish to Victory that isn't really present in most of the other Gundam shows. It's as if they were being too unsubtle about hiding a budgetary/production shortfall. This is a likely explanation since this came at a time when Sunrise was in poor financial shape, which lead to Bandai buying them up. I generally don't care that much about the visual quality of a show, so while it's a little unusual for me to notice it in Victory, it doesn't really bother me either.

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However, from what I've seen of that era (1990-1993) I have to say I can hardly remember any TV anime that was actually animated well (maybe someone can enlighten me though). The 80's were a bit of a renaissance for anime in general, and IMO many of the shows actually had better animation than those of the early 90's.
That's right around when the Japanese bubble burst, so it shouldn't be much of a surprise that a lack of funds in the general economy was reflected by a lack of budget for anime as well.
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