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Old 2007-09-21, 06:00   Link #161
Naruto_spartan
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I don't really like the subbed version because it seams to belittle Naruto a bit. While in the subs, we can see that Naruto is more expresive about his emotions and that he is more admired for his abilities. The dubb also has some of these scenes but only in later episodes.
The thing about the sub version, is that it shows that you can get hurt, that your actions can result in injury and pain, while in the dubb, such things(blood and cuts) are replaced with bruises, which gives the impresion that the hero is indistructable. It's just an observation.
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Old 2007-09-21, 08:01   Link #162
Yazakura
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I honestly detest the dub all together. It made Naruto seem like a mere kids' show. If you ask me, airing it on TV to begin with was a crime in the anime business.
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Old 2007-09-21, 20:50   Link #163
Ryuujin
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Originally Posted by Yazakura View Post
It made Naruto seem like a mere kids' show.
Uh, that's what it is and always has been.

And the US dub has little editing, actually.

Go watch what 4Kids made of One Piece, and see what an actual bad dub is...
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Old 2007-09-22, 00:56   Link #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yazakura View Post
If you ask me, airing it on TV to begin with was a crime in the anime business.
Well, it was aired on TV in japan, became a huge success, so the only logical step thereafter is to release it internationally on TV in other countries. The problem with a lot of that is that, America and Canada in particular, people are extremely sensitive about what content is deemed appropriate, and they often fail to put the fan's opinions into the matter. In an English episode, a sake cup Jiraya was holding was inked over to look like a coffee mug. It sucks, but that's what you have to do to ensure that your show is released to a mainstream audience. I know you could always suggest putting it on a late night anime block, but Adult Swim in America shows their weekly ratings constantly, and anime is always dead last, unfortunately.

To sum it up, it's all about money. If something is a hit in Japan, they'll put it in America, but they'll make subtle changes, such as alcolohic and drug references, culture-specific jokes, and other content will be altered so that it becomes a hit over here. (Though 4Kids usually feels the need to utterly butcher whatever they touch.) The more people you get to see your show, the more money you can make off them with merchandising. The fan's won't like it, they may even completely hate it, but as long as gullible kids see the product, and the parents buy them all the crap that comes with, the fans don't matter.

Thank god for fansubbing and DVD's...
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Old 2007-09-23, 23:52   Link #165
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Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
Well, it was aired on TV in japan, became a huge success, so the only logical step thereafter is to release it internationally on TV in other countries. The problem with a lot of that is that, America and Canada in particular, people are extremely sensitive about what content is deemed appropriate, and they often fail to put the fan's opinions into the matter. In an English episode, a sake cup Jiraya was holding was inked over to look like a coffee mug. It sucks, but that's what you have to do to ensure that your show is released to a mainstream audience. I know you could always suggest putting it on a late night anime block, but Adult Swim in America shows their weekly ratings constantly, and anime is always dead last, unfortunately.
I agree that you have to take steps to ensure that your work can be released to a wider audience and, in certain situations, necessary steps can be made to make that work "appropriate" for certain audiences. However, I do think that putting Naruto in a late-night anime block, with less edited content, could have been more successful. Especially on Adult Swim, certain popular animes are generally ranked higher than many of their other shows (excluding Futurama and Family Guy, which always rank highest because they started as prime time shows, and continue to air first in the line-up). Cowboy Bebop and Trigun were two shows (Bebop is back, finally) that continually received high ratings in the late-night block for Adult Swim. Naruto has developed a similar following as these two shows, though it has been dumbed-down for a younger audience, something I consider a great disservice to both the show and the fans. At the very least, I think they owed it to the fans to try it in a late-night, anime-filled block first, and see what happened in the ratings. It can always rebound as a children's show later, but it could have been successful in it's original form, and now we'll never know.

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Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
To sum it up, it's all about money. If something is a hit in Japan, they'll put it in America, but they'll make subtle changes, such as alcolohic and drug references, culture-specific jokes, and other content will be altered so that it becomes a hit over here. (Though 4Kids usually feels the need to utterly butcher whatever they touch.) The more people you get to see your show, the more money you can make off them with merchandising. The fan's won't like it, they may even completely hate it, but as long as gullible kids see the product, and the parents buy them all the crap that comes with, the fans don't matter.

Thank god for fansubbing and DVD's...
Agreed. If not for fansubbing and DVD's, I probably wouldn't watch half of the shows I do. This is something that can be remedied with the whole-sale embrace of the fansubbing culture, as well as human nature in general. It seems like fansubbing is some sort of taboo for a lot of people, especially those people who have younger children. People don't seem to want to believe that other cultures might be different from their own --find certain taboos okay-- so they shelter themselves and their families from them. Hell, my 14 year old cousin loves Naruto, and my aunt yelled at me (ironically and hypocritically, with some vulgar language of her own) for showing him some fansubbed episodes, because they contained vulgar language and references to alcohol (granted, she apologized later, but how long can you really protect your kids from that stuff, if you can at all?!). Concurrently, if people would stop worrying so much about minor things like drug/alcohol references, swear words, partial nudity, et. al, and start focusing on the more important things like murder, grand theft, sabotage, et. al, we'd probably all be better off.

I'd go into the whole merchandising thing, but I've ranted long enough for one post, and I don't think my personal beliefs on how terrible consumer culture is, is something people really want to hear about.
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Old 2007-09-24, 00:21   Link #166
Yazakura
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Originally Posted by Ryuujin View Post
Uh, that's what it is and always has been.
Not really. Toonami just did a lot of edits, and there is more stuff that wouldn't be considered kid friendly on the Japanese version than in the edited (crappier) dub version. That's what makes it seem like a mere kid's show. On the original, it's a no brainer that there was a lot more gore, cussing and everything but to make a quick buck it was morphed into a kid's show. Here is a site where you can find side by side comparisons of both versions, and they have up to episode twenty for you to compare it to.

http://www.narutoplace.com/naruto-ce...ors-and-edits/
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Old 2007-09-24, 00:42   Link #167
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Originally Posted by Yazakura View Post
Not really. Toonami just did a lot of edits, and there is more stuff that wouldn't be considered kid friendly on the Japanese version than in the edited (crappier) dub version. That's what makes it seem like a mere kid's show. On the original, it's a no brainer that there was a lot more gore, cussing and everything but to make a quick buck it was morphed into a kid's show. Here is a site where you can find side by side comparisons of both versions, and they have up to episode twenty for you to compare it to.

http://www.narutoplace.com/naruto-ce...ors-and-edits/
iirc, that place also thinks changes made to the Japanese DVDs were the dub's doing (and that site stopped updating 80+ episodes ago, anyway). The dub's not even edited much, and most of those are superficial things. Also, there are uncut DVDs anyway...

Also, like I said, it's a damn kid's show in Japan as well. The target audience is the same, only what's allowed on TV differs.
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Old 2007-09-24, 02:14   Link #168
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I think it would be heaps better if naruto didnt say BELIEVE IT its so annoying
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Old 2007-09-24, 03:01   Link #169
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Originally Posted by Yuuhi jonene View Post
I think it would be heaps better if naruto didnt say BELIEVE IT its so annoying
I think that phrase was to fill in for the Japanese Naruto's "dattebayo". I haven't been keeping up with the english episodes too much, but I think they're starting to phase that out.

On a different note, it's never really made any sense to me as to why the cartoons and TV shows needed to be edited at all. I'm willing to bet money that there's not one kid out there who sees Jiraya drinking out of a sake cup and decides to become an alcoholic. Asuma smoking a cigarette isn't the Naruto version of Joe Camel. I just wish these uppity overprotective parents and other concerned morons would give children more credit, and realize that content like that won't lead kids to bad habits, and watching a show with blood in it won't make them serial killers. Then again, I guess it's the same with all forms of media. Heavy metal, violent video games, smoking in children's movies, I suppose anime is just another cog in the censorship machine.

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Last edited by Dan the Man; 2007-09-24 at 03:12.
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Old 2007-09-24, 04:28   Link #170
Yuuhi jonene
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naruto says believe it so much i hate it hes like im a retart believe it it sucks
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Old 2007-09-24, 14:14   Link #171
Ryuujin
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Originally Posted by Yuuhi jonene View Post
I think it would be heaps better if naruto didnt say BELIEVE IT its so annoying
I don't think he's said that for dozens of episodes now...
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Old 2007-09-24, 15:24   Link #172
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Originally Posted by Newtyped View Post
I hate english naruto, english one piece, and JAPANESE RK (kenshin sound gay in japanese ><)
so i agree, just remember sometimtes the japanese anime sounds worse ^^;;
Omg! he so was! The kaoru voice was so annoying & kenshin's accent was just so... dumb?

I cant stand naruto dubs. It's not just the voices, cause some are ok, but its the BELIEVE IT! part (I think it's even worse in the older naruto video games which were dubbed) and the constant SAAUCEGAY!!

I watched naruto on Fox Kids, not Cartoon network... But what amases me the most is the censoring!!! I mean they cut of totally normal moments!! Like sometimes during a fight, it's not like they show insides or brains or anything, but still the screen just goes blank & they dont show lots of cool moments!!! At first i thought i just imagined it, but after Fox Kids has been repeating the same 20 Naruto episodes for the past year or two... well you get the picture...
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Old 2007-09-24, 16:55   Link #173
Yazakura
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Originally Posted by Ryuujin View Post
iirc, that place also thinks changes made to the Japanese DVDs were the dub's doing (and that site stopped updating 80+ episodes ago, anyway). The dub's not even edited much, and most of those are superficial things. Also, there are uncut DVDs anyway...

Also, like I said, it's a damn kid's show in Japan as well. The target audience is the same, only what's allowed on TV differs.
Yeah, and since what's allowed on TV differs from country to country, is why the dubs were very much edited. They'll have to edit out any cussing, a reasonable amount of blood and certain quirks that the show has. They'll have a hell of a tough time editing Tayuya who cusses like a sailor. You call heavy cussing, Konohamaru pretending that Sai and Sasuke did the yaoi in the manga meant for a kids' audience? How is Cartoon network possibly going to rape that, huh?
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Old 2007-09-24, 18:21   Link #174
Ryuujin
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Originally Posted by Yazakura View Post
They'll have a hell of a tough time editing Tayuya who cusses like a sailor
iirc, that's mostly a translation thing...

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Konohamaru pretending that Sai and Sasuke did the yaoi in the manga meant for a kids' audience? How is Cartoon network possibly going to rape that, huh?
That hasn't even been animated yet, wait to see what the anime does with it first. It's not like they don't edit the manga when they animate it...
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Old 2007-09-25, 20:40   Link #175
Yazakura
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Originally Posted by Ryuujin View Post
iirc, that's mostly a translation thing...


That hasn't even been animated yet, wait to see what the anime does with it first. It's not like they don't edit the manga when they animate it...
Why edit the manga? It usually has a higher rating than the anime itself was intended to be. I have a theory that it was aimed at teens in Japan, but just got a bigger audience. They're going to edit more of it, I wonder what they'll do with Lee and Sake. XD

Or for that matter, Akamaru's Dynamiku Marukingu attack.
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Old 2007-09-25, 22:37   Link #176
Quzor
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Originally Posted by Yazakura View Post
Why edit the manga? It usually has a higher rating than the anime itself was intended to be. I have a theory that it was aimed at teens in Japan, but just got a bigger audience. They're going to edit more of it, I wonder what they'll do with Lee and Sake. XD

Or for that matter, Akamaru's Dynamiku Marukingu attack.
Well, I think Akamaru's Dynamic Marking technique would probably be okay, as most people are alright with dogs and urination; especially in combination, since dogs seem to do a lot of that (note: I love my dogs, but they do pee A LOT!). The Lee and Sake thing though, that'll be interesting, seeing as how they've already edited Jiraiya's drinking. I doubt people would believe coffee/water/*insert non-alcoholic beverage* would make Lee so loopy or lucid...but maybe that's just me.
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Old 2007-09-25, 22:46   Link #177
Justice Knight
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dubbed naruto is the worse,take a look at ep82 dub[kakashi vs itachi]

Spoiler:


they are sick
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Old 2007-09-26, 00:00   Link #178
Ryuujin
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Originally Posted by Yazakura View Post
Why edit the manga? It usually has a higher rating than the anime itself was intended to be. I have a theory that it was aimed at teens in Japan, but just got a bigger audience. They're going to edit more of it, I wonder what they'll do with Lee and Sake. XD
Just to clarify, I was talking about the Japanese editing stuff from the manga when making the anime:
http://www.leafninja.com/anime-cuts.php
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Old 2007-09-26, 01:13   Link #179
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dubbed naruto is the worse,take a look at ep82 dub[kakashi vs itachi]

Spoiler:


they are sick
so true, instead of maito gai(i think it was pronounce might to guy a) they named him might guy, dude, WTF!! and also, last name before first name is awesome! lightning blade! it's lightning edge! AKA raikiri!
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Old 2007-09-26, 01:48   Link #180
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One more reason to hate subs is the way they butcher the Japanese culture. I just don't get the same level of respect some characters get when they are introduced, referred to, or addressed. It is true when you go to a High context culture in Japan and trying to convert it to a low context culture that we have in the United States and most English speaking countries. A lot of things just don't translate well like Sama, and stuff.
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