2007-09-28, 18:58 | Link #261 |
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Hi all,
This is the third manga/anime that I've ever read/watched, along with Berserk and Ippo. For the record, I believe that this anime is very much like Berserk. Anyways, I'm glad to have found a place to discuss this anime with people. I just finished reading the majority of this thread, and it is very obvious to me that some posters seem to be on a mission to discredit the theory that Raki may be a strong warrior in the future at all costs, lol. While I am not the biggest fan of Raki as well, I wonder some posters are unwillingly to even consider the fact that Raki may be strong? An arguement that I see many posters write about around here is that Raki is only human, and that even if he becomes the strongest human in the world, he would be lucky to hold his own 1v1 vs a normal Yoma while being complete fodder to AO. In short, the strongest human would probably not be able to hold a candle to the weakest Claymore. As a poster pointed out before ( I don't remember who ), even though the fastest human may be able to run a 4 second mile, the weakest Claymore could probably do that in 30 seconds. However, aren't we using a bit too much logic here? We have to remember that we are discussing the anime genre here, in which all boundaries of logic are defied ( think Guts in Berserk ) Guts was just a very strong human being, who somehow pushed himself beyond human limits in order to be strong enough to fight the demons and monsters of the Berserk world. Granted, Guts received some help in form of the Berserker armor, but there is no reason to think that Raki could not receive some similar form of help. To be honest, I would not be surprised to see something like this happen. After all, from what we have seen so far, Claymore is just as illogical and farfetched of a manga as Berserk. Furthermore, the simple fact is that in a well written script, nothing happens without a reason or purpose. We saw in the manga that Raki was taken under the instruction of that one male AO whose name I have forgotten, lol. I believe that if the author really intended for Raki to be completely worthless in combat, then there would be no point in showing that Raki was taking lessons from this man. Why would the author have Raki train 7 years under one of most powerful beings in this world, only to end up being complete crap? It makes no sense at all; the author would just be wasting his time drawing the parts of the manga that showed Raki learning from the guy then. To add to all of this, I would consider Raki the second most important character to this series. Why develop this character so much if he is only going to end up being crap? It just does not make any sense to me for the author to spend so much time developing the character Raki, only to have him be completely worthless. In this anime, the most important thing is combat/figthing power. Why would the second leading character not have any? I do believe big things are in store for Raki, and that while he may not turn out to be as strong as the #1 Claymore, he certainly wouldn't be useless either. My guess is that he'll end up being strong enough to be able to support Clare and the rest of the resistance legitimate combat support. Sorry this post was so long lol. I would love to hear responses and comments. Last edited by bluelight41; 2007-09-28 at 21:57. |
2007-09-28, 23:21 | Link #262 |
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Perhaps big things Raki in manga development is not his fighting ability but his compassion, empathy, moral and humanity strength. He might not able to kill, but perhaps he can be the bridge between life forms to unite against the more sinister enemy, the Organization. Instead of being a warrior, he will be something else, like Gandhi or some inspirational figure to turn the Awakened Ones and Claymore operators to destroy the root of their problem.
That's who I see the progression of his character will go in the manga. But hey, just my personal opinion.
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Last edited by stormy001_M1A2; 2007-09-28 at 23:39. |
2007-09-29, 01:24 | Link #263 | ||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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So far, Raki had screen time, and some importance as a plot device - he's useful as a motivation for Clare to do her rebellious act, and for the exposition. Quote:
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2007-09-29, 02:08 | Link #264 |
Meh...
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If the writers in the anime really did try to make him into a moral compass, Gandhi, or whatever, how can one think that a creature who lives by eating your friends and families guts can fall into the category of compassion?
You know, empathy is great, when it actually falls on something that deserves it, not when it's misplace time and again by the same person who doesn't know any better, or for that fact, anyone who he's trying to give it to, considering he truly doesn't know anything about them or is just blind to the truth. |
2007-09-29, 02:32 | Link #265 | |
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2007-09-29, 02:54 | Link #266 | ||
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Raki has his importance, he's the one who first prevented Clare going awakening, and he has played some important role in the following chapters. I don't blame him for being emo at first, since he just lost all his family and his dearest brother turns out a demon. But he's development has potential.
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Besides Claymore has its habit of breaking previous settings when introducing some new concepts, and now this "fight with zero demon power release" looks to be a new concept that can break a lot of established settings in the manga series. |
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2007-09-29, 03:06 | Link #267 | ||
I disagree with you all.
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Human intelligence comes into play to realize that sad truth, and finding how to really help, instead of just being a sword slinging hindrance. (As opposed to a whining, unarmed hindrance.) Quote:
And fighting without release is an old concept. Theresa did it, Raphaela did it, and now they're doing it. |
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2007-09-29, 04:08 | Link #268 | |||
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The fundamental difference here is that, for the past it's fighting without actively releasing more demon power, but now it's fighting with utilizing completely nil demon power at all. Quote:
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2007-09-29, 04:57 | Link #269 | |||||
I disagree with you all.
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If he wants to be useful, he'll have to find some other way. |
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2007-09-29, 07:08 | Link #270 | |
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2007-09-29, 09:05 | Link #271 | ||
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Raphaela can conceal her demon power presence very well, but when she fights, her demon power can still be felt. There IS a BIG difference between concealing your demon power presence when you are not fighting, and no demon power at all when you are pulling off high-speed sword. No active release doesn't mean no demon power, it's just that their demon power are at a low daily level, not actively increased to a high combat level. But for the protagonists now, even a powerful AO cannot detect ANY demon power when they attack her! It means they are not using any demon power at all. Even with pills, they only completely conceal their demon power when they are not fighting. When they try to perform those super human feats, their demon power are still felt, means they still reach some low demon power level. The no demon power at all stuff is a completely new concept, and that's what the manga has confirmed. Quote:
Like I said, as far as I can see, the possibility of a human mastering swordsmanship or martial arts in Claymore well enough to beat demons is still open, and that won't even break any consistency in Claymore universe (at least no more than past events that have occurred already). |
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2007-09-29, 09:05 | Link #272 | |||||||
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You state that in Claymore full humans are sheep for the slaughter. I've never watched Onepice, but how is this any different from the "Berkserkverse?" The only human in that I can think of in Berserk that wouldn't get slaughtered by the Berserk monsters is Guts. Everyone else has pretty much no chance. Remember in the earlier/middle parts of the manga when the eclipse occured? The band of the hawk, the most powerful army of the time, could do nothing except get slaughtered by the demons. Even Guts, the best human warrior at the time, was helpless to do anything about it and had to be rescued. In that part of Berserk, was it not painfully obvious that humans had no chance against the demons? Nevertheless, Guts exceeded what we would call "human limits" later on, and was able to fight toe to toe with some of the stronger demons of that anime. Quote:
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Last edited by bluelight41; 2007-09-29 at 09:24. |
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2007-09-29, 13:05 | Link #274 | ||||||||||||
I disagree with you all.
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The Church warriors are professional soldiers of a rich organisation. While it is possible that some other army, somewhere, is superior to them thanks to better doctrines and/or equipment, an individual swordsman is never going to be much better than the church's swordsmen. He may become a bit better, but not enough to matter. For example, take professional athletes. People able to run 100m in less than, say, 11 seconds. If you train, maybe you'll be able to run faster than them. Maybe you'll be able to beat the world record. But at best, you'll only shave off a few hundredth of seconds. You will not run 100 in less than 2 seconds. Because humans can't do that. Quote:
My point was, in Claymore, full humans don't possess Claymore-level physical abilities. (Or Claymores wouldn't exist in the first place.) Quote:
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The poor guy's got damsel in distress written all over him. Just as it's some people's lot in life to walk around saying "There are many guards in the castle", it's his to be rescued from youmas. At best, he'll learn to stay out from underfoot, and be Clare's emotional support and/or boytoy. Or maybe he'll help them by being bait, or being the one to talk to the humans. But slaughtering ABs? Not going to happen. (Unless he's claymorized or something, I suppose. But then, there's his awakening to deal with...) Quote:
Anyway, no it's not. Or Riful would be a lot more important than all the Fab Four put together. Quote:
And whatever he wants to do is his problem, but the story hasn't been about "Raki the youma slayer", and it doesn't look like it's ever going to be. Them's the breaks. Quote:
Also... Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, and he plans to recruit people, but somehow, I doubt it. Fighting youmas isn't a one-man job. I don't think he realizes that. Quote:
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2007-09-29, 13:48 | Link #275 | ||||||
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If combat power/abilities was not important, I don't think we would not see so much of this series devoted to the advancement of character combat powers. Why bother to have all these special moves...windcutter, Yoma sensing, quick blade, etc and the mechanics of these moves explained so well if it wasn't a central issue to this series? So much of this series is devoted to the "leveling up" of key characters in order for them to be able to fight against stronger foes that keep appearing. Besides, what would be more important than combat power in the Claymore world? Diplomacy? Intelligence? None of that stuff really means anything without combat power to back it up. For example, we know that Mirai is a very intelligent leader, capable of making detailed war strategies. However, even the most intricate plan means absolutely nothing if her and her allies are unable to execute the plan. Quote:
Also, I wasn't intending to argue with you about his weapon of choice. I don't care what he uses, as long as it is effective. I was just saying that I don't believe that there is anything he can contribute other than learning to fight. Quote:
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Also, while it is true that he has no Yoma power to work with, the author could easily come up with some sort of plot device that makes him combat ability explode. I know you didn't read Berserk, but in Berserk, the author gave the main character a form of armor that pretty much multiplied his abilities and gave him a way to fight on an equal level with the monsters in that series. While I know that this series is not Berserk, I just wanted to show an example of how a plot device could easily be come up with to explain Raki becoming strong, if he does someday. |
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2007-09-29, 14:02 | Link #276 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
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Well, actually, there are a few plot point tied into the fighting techniques, but it doesn't mean that every important character has to be a fighter. Quote:
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2007-09-29, 15:45 | Link #277 | |||
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
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And would you stop with the Berserk references? I have only watched the first several episodes of it and it didn't have much battle realism from the start, I suppose Guts becomes much, much stronger later on but he was slicing people in half from very early on. One was left with the feeling that this guy can do virtually anything, if he tries hard enough, does that remind you of Raki in any way? Yes, Raki can be given a magic artifact or humans might suddenly become able to match some weak Youma or even AB but this would be one very illogical, inconsistent and forced twist. The only form of magic/supernatural we have seen in Claymore are the Youma and the Claymores, so logically Raki should either become a Claymore or remain a weakling. Quote:
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2007-09-29, 15:50 | Link #278 | |
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2007-09-29, 19:58 | Link #279 | |||
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Last edited by hipeach; 2007-09-29 at 23:29. |
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2007-09-29, 22:44 | Link #280 | |
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And remember, this is anime we're talking about here. There are myriad different ways that "power-levels" can be reset or changed, sometimes to the point where "suspension of disbelief" becomes an insult to the intelligence of the readers/viewers. |
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