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Old 2007-10-27, 18:37   Link #381
Shiroth
Beautiful fighter.
 
 
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Episode four: last six or so minutes (that includes the minute after the ED) is some nice heavy drama. A very nice episode over all --- better with subs though.

Speaking of the new ED, it's Shaft-tastic.
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Old 2007-10-27, 18:55   Link #382
totalnet
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Spoiler for ep4:

Last edited by totalnet; 2007-10-27 at 23:10.
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Old 2007-10-27, 22:46   Link #383
serenade_beta
マジ天使
 
 
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Spoiler for ep4:
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Old 2007-10-27, 22:56   Link #384
ayu5860
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I have see something about it.
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Old 2007-10-27, 23:33   Link #385
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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Spoiler for ep4:
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Old 2007-10-28, 02:35   Link #386
deffusse
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ep04 was absolutely amazing.... my private score 9/10 I can't wait till subbed version will be released
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Old 2007-10-28, 04:55   Link #387
Timeless Enigma
Tsushima Masaki
 
 
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I started watching this show yesterday at the insistence of one of my friends. I like the art style and the colours, very distinct.

What I don't like is the general Renji/Chihiro storyline, I'm simply not interested in that plot. Not sure what it is, I suppose I'm supposed to sympathize with a girl who's coping admirably with pure anterograde amnesia and a single eye but... I just don't. I don't think I really care about Renji either. In any case I'm more interested in Hiro and Miyako's side of the story. Kei kind of reminds me of my sister in sense that she's younger and thinks she's Hiro's caretaker or something... But I suppose her worrying is legitimate.

Not sure if I'll keep going with this one, that other plotline may grow on me but currently the only reason I would continue would be for Hiro's side.
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Old 2007-10-28, 10:11   Link #388
Keruri
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I think I'm the only one who enjoys the Renji/Chihiro more than the Hiro/Miyako/Kei. I'm extremely biased, though, being an avid Renji fangirl.

Spoiler for Episode 4:
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Old 2007-10-28, 10:21   Link #389
Klashikari
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After watching this episode, the syndrome will probably never cease.
While i'm often surprised how the visual quality is, the animation is bluntly horrible.
The mouth animations are often choppy or even messed up. Much like last episode, episode 4 has even more lipsync issues. (and again, many moments the transitions look more like slideshow, while the characters walk like dolls)

The camera used a bit less awkward far plan, and they finally give a proper focus on Chihiro during her outburst. That said, the sight and emphasis are TOO stiff, and it still hurt visual part of the series, as it is a very important factor of the drama and interactions, which still fails to deliver the complete mood.

That said, i'm certainly not convinced by Chihiro's Seiyuu, who hardly match the look and visual struggle of her character (it is certainly not as bad as Kei's seiyuu in the end of episode 3 though). She was fairly dull and even expressionless, which is something surprising considering how it was very nice in episode 3 ("joke" scene)

This episode was "good", though Renji/Chihiro part is certainly not as moving as Hiro/Miyako/Kei, as the triangle has much more chemistry and dynamic, while Renji and Chihiro are rather bland despite the depth and potential of their relationship and so forth.

Gotta wait for the subs, but i vastly prefered episode 3, though episode 4 still has much better score than 1 and 2.
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Old 2007-10-28, 12:04   Link #390
deffusse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keruri View Post
I think I'm the only one who enjoys the Renji/Chihiro more than the Hiro/Miyako/Kei. I'm extremely biased, though, being an avid Renji fangirl.
don't worry I'm the same way as you. For me basicly the main plot is Renji/Chihiro relationship, "the other ones" that's only a amazing bonus.... Also love the ED, and the OP too.
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Old 2007-10-28, 12:27   Link #391
Seishi
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Personally I think Renji is very 2-D character so far, and not really someone I can bring myself to like now. Chihiro not so much, as tragic characters almost always get a place with me.

The other story seems to have a lot more depth so far; especially now after Miyamiya's actions at the end of episode 3. Hopefully ep 4 brings us more of that story.. >_<
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Old 2007-10-28, 13:54   Link #392
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
After watching this episode, the syndrome will probably never cease.
While i'm often surprised how the visual quality is, the animation is bluntly horrible.
The mouth animations are often choppy or even messed up. Much like last episode, episode 4 has even more lipsync issues. (and again, many moments the transitions look more like slideshow, while the characters walk like dolls)

The camera used a bit less awkward far plan, and they finally give a proper focus on Chihiro during her outburst. That said, the sight and emphasis are TOO stiff, and it still hurt visual part of the series, as it is a very important factor of the drama and interactions, which still fails to deliver the complete mood.

That said, i'm certainly not convinced by Chihiro's Seiyuu, who hardly match the look and visual struggle of her character (it is certainly not as bad as Kei's seiyuu in the end of episode 3 though). She was fairly dull and even expressionless, which is something surprising considering how it was very nice in episode 3 ("joke" scene)

This episode was "good", though Renji/Chihiro part is certainly not as moving as Hiro/Miyako/Kei, as the triangle has much more chemistry and dynamic, while Renji and Chihiro are rather bland despite the depth and potential of their relationship and so forth....
Isn't it wonderful when we can disagree completely? I just did a brief check, and the mouth movements look at least as good to me as in most shows. I was going to say that recording is done after animation, so any off-sync would be more likely due to the seiyuus, who are more experienced with games than anime, but in fact I don't see a problem. How about Miyako's "hai..ahh" at about 18:00, for example?

I don't see Renji and Chihiro as bland at all. There is a lot of feeling there on both sides and an amazing situation and interesting reactions on hers. I find her seiyuu, Yanase Natsumi, highly convincing, even with her drippy, stylized voice. In fact, Hiro/Miyako/Kei are only just now catching up, for me.

"...finally give a proper focus on Chihiro during her outburst..." sounds like excessively specific expectations of how a scene should be set up. The purpose of the whole thing is to tell a story and communicate characters and emotions. They should use whatever means work, and the means they are using work for me, if not for everyone. Why are "slideshow"-like transitions or long shots a sin? Spending more money is not a good thing in itself. Not every show has to use animation as detailed as Clannad or as active as Tokikake. I know what you mean when you say some movements are stiff, but that's part of the style, and it works well for me.

Sometimes you can intensify a mood by playing against it: I think the somewhat detached style of Chihiro's seiyuu both creates a special vulnerable character and intensifies the emotion by contrast.

In any case, we simply have differing perceptions. For me, the visual patterns and rhythms of this show really help the story and the emotions. Especially in ep4, everything works. I think this may be the best show so far from Shinbou and his group. For me, it "delivers the complete mood." But the style is far from normal or hackneyed, and that helps elevate the mood into something unique.

This season, Blue Drop is my favorite show, but ef is next.
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Old 2007-10-28, 14:43   Link #393
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Isn't it wonderful when we can disagree completely? I just did a brief check, and the mouth movements look at least as good to me as in most shows. I was going to say that recording is done after animation, so any off-sync would be more likely due to the seiyuus, who are more experienced with games than anime, but in fact I don't see a problem. How about Miyako's "hai..ahh" at about 18:00, for example?
The simple start with Renji around 3:38 isn't exactly fluid to me already (the part of Yakusoku was choppy a lot). Chihiro quickly has the same issue, as the mouth "movement" is not smooth, though at 3:58, it is normal.

As for the lipsynch, it is rather that the movements are too short or too long considering for the words spoken. I'm not really sure if it is seiyuu's fault here but well.
Quote:
I don't see Renji and Chihiro as bland at all. There is a lot of feeling there on both sides and an amazing situation and interesting reactions on hers. I find her seiyuu, Yanase Natsumi, highly convincing, even with her drippy, stylized voice. In fact, Hiro/Miyako/Kei are only just now catching up, for me.
Well, my problem with Renji and Chihiro is the lack of dynamism and real chemistry. Basically, I don't actually feel these interactions are two sided until now. That's of course a matter of taste, but to me, Renji isn't really on par with Chihiro, thus making the interactions quite awkward and not exactly great. Hiro was also a bit too passive, but in this episode and episode 3, he was at least reacting appropriately etc.

I probably have a thing against Renji's character, aside of the present and the hug, renji was really passive and very very uninteresting in my eyes.

as for Chihiro's seiyuu, many instances don't really match the visual (for instance, 19:00, chihiro should yell, which isn't the case etc). Rather a personal observation, anyway.
Quote:
"...finally give a proper focus on Chihiro during her outburst..." sounds like excessively specific expectations of how a scene should be set up. The purpose of the whole thing is to tell a story and communicate characters and emotions. They should use whatever means work, and the means they are using work for me, if not for everyone. Why are "slideshow"-like transitions or long shots a sin? Spending more money is not a good thing in itself. Not every show has to use animation as detailed as Clannad or as active as Tokikake. I know what you mean when you say some movements are stiff, but that's part of the style, and it works well for me.
A sin? not that much, But i dislike when key moments are completely messed up because the director chooses to use a horrible plan when emotions are the most important part of the scene. In chihiro outburst, they actually zoom on her face and we can actually see how she was struggling, which wasn't very well done in previous episodes. For instance, the far camera angle in episode 3 when they were in the beach, walking was very annoying. It is just a demonstration of the scenery, but nothing about the characters nor their feelings. That scene was almost like listening to a DramaCD since the visual was almost useless in term of showing the characters emotions and interaction.

As for the stiff animation, that's not actually what i can call as style. While camera angle might be part of it, the animation is hardly on par with it. That's why i'm wondering why so much budget is spent insanely on the scenery (which don't suffer animation issues at all) while... the characters themselves ARE getting non fluid movements. It is disrupting the flow, as the body language is as important as with the expressions of the characters.
Quote:
Sometimes you can intensify a mood by playing against it: I think the somewhat detached style of Chihiro's seiyuu both creates a special vulnerable character and intensifies the emotion by contrast.
That is correct in theory and practice. But as far as i saw in ef, to me, it is not working with how they portrayed chihiro. Maybe it is rather the animators fault, but conflicting elements between the visual and the voice are rarely working but heh...
Quote:
In any case, we simply have differing perceptions. For me, the visual patterns and rhythms of this show really help the story and the emotions. Especially in ep4, everything works. I think this may be the best show so far from Shinbou and his group. For me, it "delivers the complete mood." But the style is far from normal or hackneyed, and that helps elevate the mood into something unique.
While i won't debate about the unique aspect of this show, I'm rather bothered how actually the visual patterns aren't smooth and well blended of this type of genre. In that regard, many unecessary "original" attempts could have an equal or much better impact with a normal approach.

This is a simple matter of taste, but aside of the art shift, it is rathe the execution which is really an issue in my books.
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Old 2007-10-28, 17:19   Link #394
guuchan
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I guess I don't need to promote for the ED this time.

Notice that the lyrics is also written by Kei's seiyuu. Even before finding that out, I already thought the lyrics described Kei really well, but knowing it totally brings a whole new meaning to it.

As for the episode itself, I will hold the discussion till subs come out.
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Old 2007-10-28, 22:14   Link #395
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The simple start with Renji around 3:38 isn't exactly fluid to me already (the part of Yakusoku was choppy a lot). Chihiro quickly has the same issue, as the mouth "movement" is not smooth, though at 3:58, it is normal... [lots of interesting stuff]... While i won't debate about the unique aspect of this show, I'm rather bothered how actually the visual patterns aren't smooth and well blended of this type of genre. In that regard, many unnecessary "original" attempts could have an equal or much better impact with a normal approach.

This is a simple matter of taste, but aside of the art shift, it is rather the execution which is really an issue in my books.
Thanks for this excellent reply. I do think it's a matter of taste. I like the "original attempts." For me, they work. I see why you call some things stiff or not smooth, but that is part of the style, for me. I agree completely that the voices have to carry things sometimes, when the shots are distant, or even sometimes whitespace. But this works for me. The voices knit things together in an interesting way.

And having looked at the times you mention, I still disagree about lip movements. In fact, I think the voices and lip movements are particularly well done, surprisingly. I even see the different vowels. Once again, I think it's a matter of style.

And the frames where Chihiro's image was shouting and her voice wasn't also work for me. It was a similar scene in the preview that made me think the seiyuus' lack of experience in anime (as opposed to games) would hurt the show. Now that I'm seeing the real thing, I don't think it does. The sound director is Tsuruoka Yota, one of the top guys around, who did Lain, Macross7, RahXephon, Azumanga Daioh, Rozen Maiden, SHnY, Lucky Star, etc., etc. I suspect he and the director would be the ones who decided how the seiyuu would do the line.

In any case, thanks so much for the conversation. I've learned a lot. I'll keep looking for the things you point out.
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Old 2007-10-29, 06:52   Link #396
masama
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Spoiler for ep4:
dont get me wrong I like this show.
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Old 2007-10-29, 14:44   Link #397
kininku buster
I wanna be Itou Makoto
 
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This show is really awesome and I've been impressed with the abstract scenes that they've put in the show. My personal favorite storyline so far is the Renji/Chihiro plot. They can honestly do a whole series just focusing on that particular story alone. I wonder how Renji is goin' to help her though.
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Old 2007-10-29, 21:04   Link #398
FlareKnight
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Spoiler for Ep4:

Well I guess with a series this focused on art it will be a major point of the discussion. I'm just focusing in on the story as it develops.
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Old 2007-10-29, 23:19   Link #399
komichi
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God, I hate watching this series because it always make me think KyoAni, but overall I really am enjoying this anime, many things are exciting and beautiful. Inspired me enough to play the game.
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Old 2007-10-29, 23:46   Link #400
holyman282
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Why does it make you think kyoani?

As for this show I'm getting a bit tired of all those camera shots, it's really put me off and thrown off the momentum of the actual story. I know alot of you enjoy it but to me, after watching 3 ep i've decided to wait until it's completely subbed to watch the whole thing as I may enjoy Shaft's artistic way of doing things if I watch it as a whole.
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