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Old 2007-11-11, 06:48   Link #21
dreamless
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lol only complete morons would build giant humanoid mecha for battle anyway

And why would any real world law of combat apply in a mecha anime, and in this case arguably a super robot anime?
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Old 2007-11-11, 07:47   Link #22
Demongod86
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I'm not talking real world. I'm talking in-universe here. In all other universes, melee action was viable due to the fact that the enemy MSes jammed homing weapons or couldn't be locked onto due to some particle or another.

In terms of Infinite Justice (and Gundam Epyon for that matter), those suits while they were melee-oriented, weren't these little glass gundams. If they got into close range on any target, it was pretty much over for them. Not to mention that Epyon more or less had armies of mobile dolls to provide ranged backup, and infinite justice has meteor, but I digress.

In terms of Gundam 00's universe, meleeing makes no sense. The gundams have stealth, comm jamming, and a whole bunch of other properties by virtue of their GG particles, whereas the OTHER MSes do NOT. This is why I'm not surprised to see Kyrios missile-spamming (when the hell did a gundam do that the last time?) or why Dynames is such ownage.

It seems Exia is simply the token red white and blue melee gundam, but given the circumstances, why do we need melee?
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Old 2007-11-11, 10:15   Link #23
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
In terms of Gundam 00's universe, meleeing makes no sense. The gundams have stealth, comm jamming, and a whole bunch of other properties by virtue of their GG particles, whereas the OTHER MSes do NOT. This is why I'm not surprised to see Kyrios missile-spamming (when the hell did a gundam do that the last time?) or why Dynames is such ownage.

It seems Exia is simply the token red white and blue melee gundam, but given the circumstances, why do we need melee?
Because 00, while a bit different, is still Gundam. No ace pilots fall to cumbersome beam cannons, let alone crappy missiles.

Missile spamming is common in Gundam. Duel and Buster could both do it (not even going to mention METEOR). Didn't do jack against anything more powerful than a GINN though.
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Old 2007-11-11, 11:17   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
I'm not talking real world. I'm talking in-universe here. In all other universes, melee action was viable due to the fact that the enemy MSes jammed homing weapons or couldn't be locked onto due to some particle or another.
Technically, it's GN particles that block radar, and since Exia would spew these particles, it wouldn't be able to see anything on radar either. Then again, restricting combat to visible range doesn't make melee combat viable to begin with, but that's a problem common to all Gundam shows.

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Though this is a flaw of most Mecha shows (aside from presenting mecha as actually workable war machines)- for some reason melee always is superior for taking down enemies (Minus grunts - those die to ranged fire just fine), for the sole reason of it looking more cool than firing from afar.
Strangely enough, the only Mecha franchise where I don't see much melee combat is Macross - for a show that was originally conceived as a parody of Mobile Suit Gundam, it can feel awfully authentic.
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Old 2007-11-11, 14:53   Link #25
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Originally Posted by dreamless View Post
lol only complete morons would build giant humanoid mecha for battle anyway

And why would any real world law of combat apply in a mecha anime, and in this case arguably a super robot anime?
Well first theyll start off with cyborgs, later cyborgs getting bigger and bigger.
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Old 2007-11-11, 17:22   Link #26
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It came down to 2 things: plot and mecha designers.

Plot: The token white and blue Gundam. Pretty much the most traditional thing in most of the Gundam series, it has been put into place since 1979. It's like, the thing that makes a Gundam anime, a Gundam anime.

Mecha designers: If you notice carefully, some of the mecha designers pretty much designed some giant robots (that are not Gundams) for SRW or something - something which mecha design can take a backsest in terms of logic. There are some mecha designers that pretty much kill logic, while some tries to give their mecha designs some sense (if I remembered correctly, melee are the last choice of fighting a battle in 08th MS Team (which we know) and probably Sentinel (because they have the advanced weaponry...although the FAZZes were took out due to the lack of them)).
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Old 2007-11-11, 19:08   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Is it me, or is the design of the Exia just a blatant attempt at preserving the "original" gundam design, when there is absolutely no reason to keep that design around, since the enemies' MSes DON'T have the radar-jamming capabilities that minovsky particles granted, or even the high-performance to really be able to force a melee showdown, as Virtue and Dynames demonstrate time after time?
Pretty much.


However, I don't think Exia, or atleast its pilot, fight in the intended way. Setsuna was paired up with Lockon for a reason. My guess is that Exia was designed to support Dynames at close range, for whenever any enemies slipped on through while Dynames was sniping, so that the Dynames can keep on sniping uninterupted(kinda hard to dodge and shoot miles away at the same time, y'know) and not get totally destroyed in the process. Simply put, I'd imagine Exia as Dynames close range protection unit.

The only reason it's not doing that(storywise, not direction wise, because we all know that direction wise it's to sell model kits) is probably because Setsuna doesn't like to do things the effective way.
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Old 2007-11-12, 00:16   Link #28
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Exia is melee coz swords are a pride of japan and japan doesnt believe in god, so hero musnt believe in one too, all japan main characteristics. I cant argue even if i wanted to.
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Old 2007-11-12, 01:00   Link #29
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Exia in all the combat situation should have used its gun more often in battle, rather than charging the enemy and following up with secondary slice or stab. In the battle situation, Setsuna would have dispose enemys far quicker by shooting, sure he can go back to finish them. Exia could support the other units, but it is pointless with Kyrios flying and bombing all the ground opponents with burst attacks. Exia is that important to Dynames evasive strategy, Haro pilots the main controls so Lockon can be trigger happy against the enemies.

If they are the pride of Japan, sure maybe as a belief, but when you consider warefare. It looks like a butter knife against buster rifles, particle cannons, gatling guns, and other weapons adopted through each series.
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Old 2007-11-12, 01:05   Link #30
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Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver View Post
Exia is melee coz swords are a pride of japan and japan doesnt believe in god, so hero musnt believe in one too, all japan main characteristics. I cant argue even if i wanted to.
You should stop watching Gundam 00, it's eating your sanity.
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Old 2007-11-12, 01:11   Link #31
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Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver View Post
Exia is melee coz swords are a pride of japan and japan doesnt believe in god, so hero musnt believe in one too, all japan main characteristics. I cant argue even if i wanted to.
You shouldn't click on the button "Post Quick Reply" or "Submit Reply", because it'll make you looks smarter.
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Old 2007-11-12, 08:47   Link #32
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Well first theyll start off with cyborgs, later cyborgs getting bigger and bigger.
well they'll grow wings and tentacles first. It's okay to be big, but big humanoid? a big octopus wielding eight light sabers will crush a big human anytime

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However, I don't think Exia, or atleast its pilot, fight in the intended way. Setsuna was paired up with Lockon for a reason. My guess is that Exia was designed to support Dynames at close range, for whenever any enemies slipped on through while Dynames was sniping, so that the Dynames can keep on sniping uninterupted(kinda hard to dodge and shoot miles away at the same time, y'know) and not get totally destroyed in the process. Simply put, I'd imagine Exia as Dynames close range protection unit.

The only reason it's not doing that(storywise, not direction wise, because we all know that direction wise it's to sell model kits) is probably because Setsuna doesn't like to do things the effective way.
I think the reason is that Haro can do a better job to protect Lockon than Setsuna... or so far no weapon can effectively damage the Gundam anyway...
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Old 2007-11-12, 09:14   Link #33
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I think the reason is that Haro can do a better job to protect Lockon than Setsuna... or so far no weapon can effectively damage the Gundam anyway...
No weapon as of yet at least!
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Old 2007-11-14, 05:55   Link #34
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Is it me or is the entire design of the Exia rather stupid, given the functions of the GG particles? If those things jam communications and wipe out radar signals, then why the hell would you want to charge into visual range like a complete moron? If you have full stealth capabilities, why the hell do you have a bright red white and blue gundam charging into visual range rather than abusing the living crap out of its stealth capabilities and obliterating enemies ala Dynames or Virtue? The other MSes don't have GG particles, so they're easily detectable on radar, so why the hell would you need to melee enemy MSes rather than blast them BVR style as Dynames or Kyrios do or wipe everything out before people know what hit them Virtue style?

Is it me, or is the design of the Exia just a blatant attempt at preserving the "original" gundam design, when there is absolutely no reason to keep that design around, since the enemies' MSes DON'T have the radar-jamming capabilities that minovsky particles granted, or even the high-performance to really be able to force a melee showdown, as Virtue and Dynames demonstrate time after time?
I've killed a bit too many cat-girls lately, so instead...

Maybe Exia+Setsuna's "true" mission is... to catch the attention of the expert MS pilots among the opposition! This allows the true Gundam Meisters to do their work unimpeded. Any enemy kills Setsuna achieves is just a bonus.

Weak... young... vulnerable (relatively)... pretty dress... he's already "trapped" Union's ace pilot Graham (melomelo over young pilots) and "I've got a shouta harem assassin squad" Ali. While Sergei has resisted so far, he's currently being tempted by a certain artificial loli...

As soon as he looked like being "taken", Exia's self-destruct will be engaged.

Last edited by kari-no-sugata; 2007-11-14 at 06:14.
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Old 2007-11-14, 19:10   Link #35
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
I've killed a bit too many cat-girls lately, so instead...

Maybe Exia+Setsuna's "true" mission is... to catch the attention of the expert MS pilots among the opposition! This allows the true Gundam Meisters to do their work unimpeded. Any enemy kills Setsuna achieves is just a bonus.

Weak... young... vulnerable (relatively)... pretty dress... he's already "trapped" Union's ace pilot Graham (melomelo over young pilots) and "I've got a shouta harem assassin squad" Ali. While Sergei has resisted so far, he's currently being tempted by a certain artificial loli...

As soon as he looked like being "taken", Exia's self-destruct will be engaged.
I don't think Setsuna the type to pull off a Heero tactic though, look how rashly he fights. So far, experince soldiers sould beat him, that means the melee tactic he uses must be a novice, except for a better unit.
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Old 2007-11-14, 19:19   Link #36
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Yeah, Setsuna don't mature yet... Well, it's only 6 episodes till now.
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Old 2007-11-14, 21:44   Link #37
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I think the reason is that Haro can do a better job to protect Lockon than Setsuna... or so far no weapon can effectively damage the Gundam anyway...
Well, Setsuna is just a bad pilot in general. And as for Haro doing all the dirty work when Lockon does the shooting, it's still kinda hard to take aim while moving. He doesn't have to multitask, but that still doesn't mean it's not harder to shoot while moving then while standing still.
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Old 2007-11-14, 22:03   Link #38
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On another note, why is CB the only side that arms their MS with missiles? D:
My view:

Most of the other forces are situated in places were you don't need overwhelming power. It seems normally, guns are enough to take out everything.

When you look at when CB uses missiles, it's to take out large amount of forces at once, which you need to do when you're one person against an army.
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Old 2007-11-14, 22:20   Link #39
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Well see, that's just the problem there. The Anfs in episode 1 apparently can't even tank a ground-based rocket battery.
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Old 2007-11-14, 22:26   Link #40
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I believe that Exia isn't fully armored because it would defeat the purpose of it being THE melee Gundam of the 4. If anybody wants to be fast, or wants to be fast to actually end the mission within the specified time range Sumeragi predicted, then hell yeah, do off with the cumbersome armor and just fight the enemies already. Additional armor puts on extra weight on the Gundam and would make it slower, and would definitely put the Exia under fire a lot then trying to achieve the mission objective at that, too. Exia sacrificed a lot of additional protection/armor in place for speed, and speed is what a melee Gundam is all about. the GN particles and its job - jamming radar and such - make it useful so that the MS under attack would not be able to alert other reinforcements, thereby ending the mission quickly. So I do not see why the in-universe explanation of the GN particles does not work.
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