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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 07 Rating
Perfect 10 50 36.23%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 26.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 17.39%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 10.14%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 5.07%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.72%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.72%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.72%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.17%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-11-25, 05:43   Link #381
Sol Falling
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
regarding the plausibility of the scenario sunrise showed to us:

I'm not convinced that Ali abducted the kids and then brought them back to kill their parents.

It just, why are they smiling? If they like Ali, then it's would be weird to think that he abducted them (don't try to say Stockholm's syndrome while trying to convince me the kids were being turned into killing machines at the same time). And this rules out the "no home to return to" argument because if kids could kill their parents and return with a smile, they were probably well past wanting to return home anyway.

There's two ways I could see this: either somebody else abducted the kids and trained them partway first, so that Ali could 'save' them, thus turning himself into a Messiah figure...

or Ali appeared as an adult figure to these kids while they were still living at home, getting on their good side by giving them 'secret' treats like bread or whatever (hey they're poor) while also badmouthing and feeding their doubts about their parents. He tells them to make a 'choice' between them and when they decide to come to him, at which point he will start indoctrinating them and creating an image of an 'evil entity' in their minds. Then he could start making them kill things by identifying them with that evil until eventually they're willing to do anything to help Ali destroy that evil. By that point their home lives would be totally irrelevent to them, and they would be willing to kill their parents.

That second one...I mean, that's just the most plausible way I could say of turning a kid against their parents and into your loyal fanatic. But it seems to me like it'd be more effective on older kids like teenagers as opposed to 8 year olds. I wasn't all that shocked or horrified by epi 7 but that part just doesn't seem all that well thought out to me.
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Old 2007-11-25, 05:58   Link #382
SonicX_Zero
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Join Date: Jul 2006
I think one way would be that the parents themselves actually supported their children being trained into child soldiers, it could be that they didn't know about the kill your parents bit.
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Old 2007-11-25, 06:12   Link #383
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
or Ali appeared as an adult figure to these kids while they were still living at home, getting on their good side by giving them 'secret' treats like bread or whatever (hey they're poor) while also badmouthing and feeding their doubts about their parents. He tells them to make a 'choice' between them and when they decide to come to him, at which point he will start indoctrinating them and creating an image of an 'evil entity' in their minds. Then he could start making them kill things by identifying them with that evil until eventually they're willing to do anything to help Ali destroy that evil. By that point their home lives would be totally irrelevent to them, and they would be willing to kill their parents.

That second one...I mean, that's just the most plausible way I could say of turning a kid against their parents and into your loyal fanatic. But it seems to me like it'd be more effective on older kids like teenagers as opposed to 8 year olds. I wasn't all that shocked or horrified by epi 7 but that part just doesn't seem all that well thought out to me.
Yeah, but didn't the kids talk to their parents, before being brainwashed? "Hey, mom, I met this totally cool dude who's teaching me how to kill you!"

I'd really like a more complete explanation. At this point, even a bad one would do.
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Old 2007-11-25, 09:04   Link #384
Hmm....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yeah, but didn't the kids talk to their parents, before being brainwashed? "Hey, mom, I met this totally cool dude who's teaching me how to kill you!"

I'd really like a more complete explanation. At this point, even a bad one would do.
Ali won't go out that straight from the start. he isn't that stupid ^^"


Ali can start with something like "self defence" training every weekend for every kids in the village.
he can use this session to train children a combat skill. how to survive(kill)
and he can also teach about religion things too. God, Faith, Infidel, etc.
then slowly he can turn it to Crusade/Jihad craps like Kurdis is chosen one, Azadistan is infidel,
eliminate them is the holy cause for God sake blah blah blah.
of cuz other villager would oppose this idea (if they even know what Ali put in thier child head)
the Adult'll know war won't benefit them and they can predict that it'll end up as EP1 (Anihilated)
now these kids will have to choose. will they stay with their parent and rot in Barren land for the rest of his life
or join God army become Holy Warrior drive infidel out and prosper (or some craps like that)
all kids love dream we know that. especially if they live in poor remote village.
and Ali is a professional. it's easy for him to manipulate these kids mind from their 'not-so-educated' parent.
"but if u want to join the our holy army u need to proove urself 1st"
"start with weed out the nearest infidel who oppose our holy cause.........at ur home"
"here is ur gun" "c u tonite"


something like that. since sunrise haven't show us whole thing so we have to guess ^^"
I don't know if u'll get my post cuz I'm not native english speaker nor expert brainwasher.
but I already tried my best ^^"
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Old 2007-11-25, 09:34   Link #385
dreamless
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicX_Zero View Post
Although kidnapping of children and using them as soldiers is plausible, I found the whole parent killing part as somewhat something to just shock the audience unless Soran's parents never loved him then him killing his parents came out as something natural.
I think I have repeated myself too many times already, but please... please look at all those "Honor Killings" where people killed their loving mother/daughter/sister/etc. which is happening in our world. It's literally "for God's sake", so Setsuna killing his parents is quite plausible when it's to join God's army for God's sake.

Heck, back in the Inquisition, it's not uncommon that children and husbands send their mothers and wives to burn on the stake as they believe it's for God's sake, even when what the women had done was no more than preparing some herb medicines to cure their loved oned' illness.
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Old 2007-11-25, 09:47   Link #386
winter45
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmm.... View Post
Ali won't go out that straight from the start. he isn't that stupid ^^"


Ali can start with something like "self defence" training every weekend for every kids in the village.
he can use this session to train children a combat skill. how to survive(kill)
and he can also teach about religion things too. God, Faith, Infidel, etc.
then slowly he can turn it to Crusade/Jihad craps like Kurdis is chosen one, Azadistan is infidel,
eliminate them is the holy cause for God sake blah blah blah.
of cuz other villager would oppose this idea (if they even know what Ali put in thier child head)
the Adult'll know war won't benefit them and they can predict that it'll end up as EP1 (Anihilated)
now these kids will have to choose. will they stay with their parent and rot in Barren land for the rest of his life
or join God army become Holy Warrior drive infidel out and prosper (or some craps like that)
all kids love dream we know that. especially if they live in poor remote village.
and Ali is a professional. it's easy for him to manipulate these kids mind from their 'not-so-educated' parent.
"but if u want to join the our holy army u need to proove urself 1st"
"start with weed out the nearest infidel who oppose our holy cause.........at ur home"
"here is ur gun" "c u tonite"


something like that. since sunrise haven't show us whole thing so we have to guess ^^"
I don't know if u'll get my post cuz I'm not native english speaker nor expert brainwasher.
but I already tried my best ^^"
Lol im a little too late... you pretty much summed up what i was just about to type. Like i said in my previouse post, i honestly dont think sunrise gave us all the info we needed to disect setsuna on how he came to decision to kill his parents. The scene just didnt have enough info, Not enougth to connect the dots on setsunas decison. Hopefully with more encounters with Ali we might be able to see more peices of the puzzle unfold to get a better idea on how setsuna became the person he is today.

With the current information its just too vague. Too vague to a point alot of people already have premature speculations and judgment on his character. We just need more solid information to really agree if he is an @$$hole or a victem of lies.

Last edited by winter45; 2007-11-25 at 09:54. Reason: errors
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Old 2007-11-25, 16:29   Link #387
4Tran
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
But it IS natural. It happens every week, across the planet. And it isn't going to stop happening just because you don't believe in it. That's what makes it real.
While child soldiers are fairly common, children killing their parents is decidedly rarer. Usually, they have to be forced into doing so, but I guess that Ali's indoctrination is more effective than other forms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling
It just, why are they smiling? If they like Ali, then it's would be weird to think that he abducted them (don't try to say Stockholm's syndrome while trying to convince me the kids were being turned into killing machines at the same time). And this rules out the "no home to return to" argument because if kids could kill their parents and return with a smile, they were probably well past wanting to return home anyway.

There's two ways I could see this: either somebody else abducted the kids and trained them partway first, so that Ali could 'save' them, thus turning himself into a Messiah figure...
Ali seemed to use one of two tactics: presenting the real world as a place of suffering, and the world after death as a form of paradise - in which case the children are sending their parents to a better place. Or else somehow making the parents out be some sort of enemy that needed to be eradicated. Based on Ali's dialogue, the former seems more likely.
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