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Old 2007-11-26, 22:57   Link #1981
FateAnomaly
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Actually my point is the anime itself is somewhat illogical. Given their knowledge of her abilities, all they had to do is to use exploding rounds, gas, water and anything that she cannot block easily. Unless she have enough vectors to cover her whole body, she wouldn't survive.

Since it is illogical, anything goes. I can say she blocked all bullets except the one that hit her remaining horn. I think it makes a happier ending if she did survive. With both horns gone, hopefully Lucy will be gone too (still sad but much safer).

Although i think they still have to file the last bit of horn still protruding, ouch!
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Old 2007-11-26, 22:58   Link #1982
Arthas1011
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Gaguri... Thanks for letting me off the hook. Im still kinda new to these forums so im kinda dumb (explains all the notes ive got). However, wouldn't you agree that it is possible that Lucy and Nyuu were put back together?
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Old 2007-11-26, 23:14   Link #1983
gaguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAnomaly
Actually my point is the anime itself is somewhat illogical. Given their knowledge of her abilities, all they had to do is to use exploding rounds, gas, water and anything that she cannot block easily. Unless she have enough vectors to cover her whole body, she wouldn't survive.

Since it is illogical, anything goes. I can say she blocked all bullets except the one that hit her remaining horn. I think it makes a happier ending if she did survive. With both horns gone, hopefully Lucy will be gone too (still sad but much safer).

Although i think they still have to file the last bit of horn still protruding, ouch!
To me, this is much more sensible way of looking at the anime. Elfen Lied from the beginning was very loose with what you'd expect from a realistic anime, so who really gives if some things doesn't make sense. My comments weren't directed at you or other fans who are more than willing to forgive the anime for, well, just being anime. I just find it hilarious that some people need to make up such moronic scenarios to somehow justify such cases in a realistic manner, no matter how unrealistic they are.

The reason why I think Lucy is dead has more to do with the fact that, I think it fits her character and the story so far better for Lucy to die than coming back alive. The shooting scene, which to me pretty much killed her off for good, shows that she went there to die for her previous sins (and because she thinks its safer for Kouta as well). That's why I don't like the idea of her coming back alive and saying 'hi i'm back~' behind the door. Obviously people can see this in different ways and I don't have a problem with that.

@Arthas
No need to thank me for anything...you didn't do anything wrong in the first place.

I don't agree that it is possible for Lucy and Nyu to be put back together, because from how I see the anime, that can not happen after Lucy/nyu dies in a sacrificial act. However, if that's how you see it, I don't see why you should change that simply because I disagree. Just please don't say because it was realistic ^_^b
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Old 2007-11-26, 23:29   Link #1984
Arthas1011
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HAHAHAHA!!! Im just saying that if there can be 2 personalities created then in theory they can be put back together. One of those things-that-should-not-happen moments in anime
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Old 2007-11-27, 08:18   Link #1985
Reno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
I had an impression that you were going for lucy/nyu/whatever all died as one.
Slow, aren't you?

@FateAnomaly...

Lucy definately DIDN'T use her vecters to block the bullets... there's a reason it showed them in the air, out of the way. And she even said "finish it." She simply stood there and let them shoot her.
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Old 2007-11-27, 08:46   Link #1986
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
To me, this is much more sensible way of looking at the anime. Elfen Lied from the beginning was very loose with what you'd expect from a realistic anime, so who really gives if some things doesn't make sense. My comments weren't directed at you or other fans who are more than willing to forgive the anime for, well, just being anime. I just find it hilarious that some people need to make up such moronic scenarios to somehow justify such cases in a realistic manner, no matter how unrealistic they are.

The reason why I think Lucy is dead has more to do with the fact that, I think it fits her character and the story so far better for Lucy to die than coming back alive. The shooting scene, which to me pretty much killed her off for good, shows that she went there to die for her previous sins (and because she thinks its safer for Kouta as well). That's why I don't like the idea of her coming back alive and saying 'hi i'm back~' behind the door. Obviously people can see this in different ways and I don't have a problem with that.

@Arthas
No need to thank me for anything...you didn't do anything wrong in the first place.

I don't agree that it is possible for Lucy and Nyu to be put back together, because from how I see the anime, that can not happen after Lucy/nyu dies in a sacrificial act. However, if that's how you see it, I don't see why you should change that simply because I disagree. Just please don't say because it was realistic ^_^b
I had no problem with your thinking that Lucy died, and would never have replied to a post stating that. The ending was made ambiguos to support both possibilities. And opinions have been compared to a part of the body in that everyone has one. My problem comes from your attempt, based on all the expertise you gained watching Rambo movies, to label everyone who choses to believe differently as somehow being fools or morons. That only proves that you, also, could be compared to that part of the body.
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Old 2007-11-27, 09:36   Link #1987
gaguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reno
Slow, aren't you?
Never mind, I got confused from trying to correct your misinterpretation of the previous post. I also agree that she never used vector to block the bullets. Her intention of going there in the first place was to die, so it makes little sense if she suddenly changed her mind. It was a subtle, but a crystal clear scene that left no room for much ambiguity (unless you are, of course, arguing with nothing to back up anything except that wildy inventive and delusional thoughts conjured up from neverland).
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Old 2007-11-27, 17:05   Link #1988
TigerII
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Seeing as the whole show has some unbelievable parts...starting with Lucy herself, she might have lived. But I doubt that, if she survived, then there is still a big problem that is the company. They will keep coming back and I am sure next time they will kill those around her as well.

I belive she died, and in doing so, clensed herself of her past murders. I took that scene as the bullets taking her sins out, sort of a baptism(by fire...lol) that would clense her. She made her peace with Kouta then went to make her ultimate peace with the world. Besides if she lived there would still be the rivalry beteen her and the cousin(Sorry forgot her name, been a long time since I watched)

As for the guns, they were using mainly MP5 which uses the 9mm, and I am guessing they had parabellum rounds(Hollow points, basically causes more damage). Enough of them would kill anyone, and did you see the amount of soldiers firing, it was quite a lot.

Overall her death was sad, but not tragic. She was a murderer, and a psychopath. Sure The other self was sweet, but the killer was always there. She just couldn't live in society, death was probably the best thing for her. She got to say she loved him, got a kiss and got the reassurance he does not totally hate her. It was enough for her to at least die somewhat happy. Then add the orphan girl who was molested and the other horned girl(Again sorry, been a while) who were both saved and got a better life, I say it was a pretty good ending.

The truly sad part for me was the flashbacks, at the moment she gave herself to the killer side. The moment she said I really loved you Kouta, was the gut kicker for me. Had he told the truth about the cousin, but said he was not interested(Wasn't at the time), things might have been different. They could have had a life together...but they didn't. I guess the term for this is what happens...happens.



But that is just my humble opinion.
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Old 2007-11-28, 17:55   Link #1989
Reno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
Never mind, I got confused from trying to correct your misinterpretation of the previous post.
...Sorry about that.
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Old 2007-11-28, 18:14   Link #1990
stjeppe
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BlaBlaBla

my impression is she's alive..as Nyu or that persona when she was younger (cant remember name, sorry)

no problems with the company since they can only follow the bloodtrace or rely on other diclonius to detect her but they can't since she's lost her horns so isn't a diclonius anymore
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Old 2007-11-29, 03:43   Link #1991
BlackNhite
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Wow.

When'd this thread get so hostile?
Think it's time for a real change of topic, therefore, I'll throw this into the fray:

X-men

Think about it.
Diclonious = Mutant... possible connection?
Come on, don't we all want to see Nana in costume?!

Okay, on to a truly serious topic:

Post-anime.

Really, am I the only one who thinks Lucy's death (IF it happened) would change anything? Her birth was an anomaly, what's to say it couldn't happen again? Or that she was the only "Queen"?
I'll bet there are a lot more diclonious cases, not just in Japan either. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if things end up like they do in Will Smith's new movie... replacing the vampires with diclonious of course.

(Trying not to think of vampires vs diclonious... attempt failed)
Any other thoughts on post-anime plotlines?
(Ya know, the X-men thing's starting to make a lot more sense... damn fanfiction for poisoning my mind!)
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Old 2007-11-29, 08:15   Link #1992
Yorae_paladin1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNhite View Post
Wow.

When'd this thread get so hostile?
Think it's time for a real change of topic, therefore, I'll throw this into the fray:

X-men

Think about it.
Diclonious = Mutant... possible connection?
Come on, don't we all want to see Nana in costume?!

Okay, on to a truly serious topic:

Post-anime.

Really, am I the only one who thinks Lucy's death (IF it happened) would change anything? Her birth was an anomaly, what's to say it couldn't happen again? Or that she was the only "Queen"?
I'll bet there are a lot more diclonious cases, not just in Japan either. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if things end up like they do in Will Smith's new movie... replacing the vampires with diclonious of course.

(Trying not to think of vampires vs diclonious... attempt failed)
Any other thoughts on post-anime plotlines?
(Ya know, the X-men thing's starting to make a lot more sense... damn fanfiction for poisoning my mind!)
Those things in am legend are not vampires they are the entire human race infected by some virus which mutated six billion people to which will smiths character is immune. plus the diclonius cannot do that cause they can't spread as quickly for dicloni it would take centuries if not millenia to do that

Spoiler:
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Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising
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Old 2007-11-29, 10:47   Link #1993
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNhite View Post
Wow.

When'd this thread get so hostile?
Think it's time for a real change of topic, therefore, I'll throw this into the fray:

X-men

Think about it.
Diclonious = Mutant... possible connection?
Come on, don't we all want to see Nana in costume?!

Okay, on to a truly serious topic:

Post-anime.

Really, am I the only one who thinks Lucy's death (IF it happened) would change anything? Her birth was an anomaly, what's to say it couldn't happen again? Or that she was the only "Queen"?
I'll bet there are a lot more diclonious cases, not just in Japan either. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if things end up like they do in Will Smith's new movie... replacing the vampires with diclonious of course.

(Trying not to think of vampires vs diclonious... attempt failed)
Any other thoughts on post-anime plotlines?
(Ya know, the X-men thing's starting to make a lot more sense... damn fanfiction for poisoning my mind!)
This thread became hostile because gaguri started insulting people who thought that while it was unlikely it was still possible that Lucy, or actually Nyu since only the Nyu personality can come out when Lucy has no horns, might have survived to be taken captive and eventually recover from her wounds. And then only in posts to third parties. He seemed more interested in insulting people who thought differently than he did in discussing the anime.

Actually Lucy was not the anomoly.
Spoiler for manga:


While in the manga Lucy never tells Kouta her feelings, which she regreted, and never kisses him, an equally emotional and more believable event takes place initiated by Kouta. There is no question about her fate and she truely gets to redeem herself, at least as it relates to Kouta.
Spoiler for manga:
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Old 2007-11-29, 14:15   Link #1994
gaguri
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I should correct you on the fact that I didn't insult anyone other than you only, the only one stupid enough to still argue on this equally stupid and pointless debate. The moment you stopped responding to my attacks that are concerned with the scenario, (i.e. the below quote by me)
Spoiler for me from above:

I took that as you agreeing, 'yes I was stupid, going further is pointless'. If you are still unconvinced we can start from here again, not from where you sidetracked off into this post,
Spoiler:

, which attempts to invalidate my points without even trying to address my concerns stated above.

I'm more interested in discussing the characters, themes, etc. behind animes and not the plausibility of the anime. It was fun for a while trolling and provoking angry responses but I guess it does get tiring and bit sad watching one come up with some of the most stupid and imaginative speculations.

EDIT: lol at below. Sad way to avoid questions that one can not answer.

Last edited by gaguri; 2007-11-30 at 05:50.
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Old 2007-11-29, 15:48   Link #1995
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
I should correct you on the fact that I didn't insult anyone other than you only, the only one stupid enough to still argue on this equally stupid and pointless debate. The moment you stopped responding to my attacks that are concerned with the scenario, (i.e. the below quote by me)
Spoiler for me from above:

I took that as you agreeing, 'yes I was stupid, going further is pointless'. If you are still unconvinced we can start from here again, not from where you sidetracked off into this post,
Spoiler:

, which attempts to invalidate my points without even trying to address my concerns stated above.

I'm more interested in discussing the characters, themes, etc. behind animes and not the plausibility of the anime. It was fun for a while trolling and provoking angry responses but I guess it does get tiring and bit sad watching one come up with some of the most stupid and imaginative speculations.
Spoiler:
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Lucy & Nyu, reincarnated as diclonius twins.
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Old 2007-12-01, 21:41   Link #1996
Atsushi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
Never mind Arthas. I generally put '@' in front of name to address that particular someone, and sometimes people don't see that so meh.

@Pastprime

I don't need to be an expert on anything, pretty any sensible person with a triple digit IQ will argue that shooting scene seriously tests the plausibility of Lucy/Nyu's survival.

And who honestly think that bullets going over her head are going to come back at her like a homing missile. I suggest you hone you practise in interpretating other people's simple comments properly and not coming to totally wrong ideas, should you wish to have more meaningful conversations in the future.

And just because you're so uncoordinated and untrained with rifles, doesn't mean the soldiers are as incompetent as you. I'm willing to bet, at a close range (which she is at), way more than half of their shots will land on her (vital or non-vital, doesn't matter), with M-16, or AK, or even a bloody home-made rifle made by a 10 year olds in Africa, who probably have more common sense than you with such scenarios from seeing so many people being shot. I also would imagine that they've landed enough shots to literally turn her into a beehive.

And this is just my guess, but the guys with guns (and their leader) probably would have checked if she was really dead, before leaving the scene. I'm not a military expert like I've said, but I'm pretty sure one of the most important thing for soldiers/hired mercenaries/agents in completing their assassination mission, is that they actually confirm and check if their target really is dead.

And yes, Nana survived after her arms and legs were amputated. I think a normal conclusion we can draw from this, is that the animators wanted to make it all cool by pulling her arms and legs off, but needed Nana in the story, so they conjured up hocus pocus and walla, she survived. Likewise, maybe that really is Nyu behind the silhoutte. It just means that animators didn't do a very good job. But no, you just had to make yourself believe that she survived the shooting in a realistic manner. You can't accept the fact that animators zapped a deus ex to bring your beloved character. I understand that, and that's why I'm here to help you see the light ;D. I'm sure you have even more abstract and imaginative questions that runs wonderfully and freely in that sphere we call 'delusional'. Remember, I'm always here to answer for you~

Okay, I'm a complete n00b here so sorry if I offend anyone, but I just got done watching Elfen Lied last night. Now you seem dead on on what you have said. No matter how much I wish it isnt true, you really put it out there that Lucy/Nyu is dead. I'll probably have to rewatch the last episode to actully notice the things you have pointed out. But still there is one more question that lingers in my mind and that is who the person behind the door is? I now we will never know who it is exactly but I would like some peoples opinions. This has probably been discussed so much already but I dont wanna go and search the onehundred pages to find out what other people think. I still wish Lucy wouldnt have died though. T_T
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Old 2007-12-01, 22:32   Link #1997
TigerII
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Spoiler for Door:
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Old 2007-12-02, 04:48   Link #1998
gaguri
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@Atsushi

Here's a speculation I made years ago, and still unchanged. I have yet to meet anyone sharing my opinion, because justifiably, it's bit random and far-fetched, but I myself still prefer it than having to take Lucy as answer.
Spoiler:


Hope if that helped ^_^b. Thanks anyway for at least making an opportunity to talk about stuff more interesting and less retarded than trying to answer the question of 'how a girl can not die from being gunned closeshot by a group of trained gunners in a realistic manner'. It's good to know that there is one less ostrich out there, burying his head inside the ground. Yes, he can't see anything so there is nothing to worry about, but I wonder if he realises that his ass is still showing.
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Old 2007-12-02, 13:38   Link #1999
Atsushi
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Thats a pretty rock solid theory there but there are a few gap that I see.
Spoiler for Spoiler:


Other than that you have a pretty good theory. (I dont think I need to put that in spoiler qutes but meh). Oh, and thanks for not concidering me an ostrich. ^_^
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Old 2007-12-02, 15:17   Link #2000
Arthas1011
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Maybe, Nana didn't sense Lucy. Im beginning to think maybe the lucy side did get killed off or just that lucy went back to being dormant
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