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Old 2007-11-27, 17:05   Link #1981
TigerII
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Seeing as the whole show has some unbelievable parts...starting with Lucy herself, she might have lived. But I doubt that, if she survived, then there is still a big problem that is the company. They will keep coming back and I am sure next time they will kill those around her as well.

I belive she died, and in doing so, clensed herself of her past murders. I took that scene as the bullets taking her sins out, sort of a baptism(by fire...lol) that would clense her. She made her peace with Kouta then went to make her ultimate peace with the world. Besides if she lived there would still be the rivalry beteen her and the cousin(Sorry forgot her name, been a long time since I watched)

As for the guns, they were using mainly MP5 which uses the 9mm, and I am guessing they had parabellum rounds(Hollow points, basically causes more damage). Enough of them would kill anyone, and did you see the amount of soldiers firing, it was quite a lot.

Overall her death was sad, but not tragic. She was a murderer, and a psychopath. Sure The other self was sweet, but the killer was always there. She just couldn't live in society, death was probably the best thing for her. She got to say she loved him, got a kiss and got the reassurance he does not totally hate her. It was enough for her to at least die somewhat happy. Then add the orphan girl who was molested and the other horned girl(Again sorry, been a while) who were both saved and got a better life, I say it was a pretty good ending.

The truly sad part for me was the flashbacks, at the moment she gave herself to the killer side. The moment she said I really loved you Kouta, was the gut kicker for me. Had he told the truth about the cousin, but said he was not interested(Wasn't at the time), things might have been different. They could have had a life together...but they didn't. I guess the term for this is what happens...happens.



But that is just my humble opinion.
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Old 2007-11-28, 17:55   Link #1982
Reno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
Never mind, I got confused from trying to correct your misinterpretation of the previous post.
...Sorry about that.
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Old 2007-11-28, 18:14   Link #1983
stjeppe
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BlaBlaBla

my impression is she's alive..as Nyu or that persona when she was younger (cant remember name, sorry)

no problems with the company since they can only follow the bloodtrace or rely on other diclonius to detect her but they can't since she's lost her horns so isn't a diclonius anymore
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Old 2007-11-29, 03:43   Link #1984
BlackNhite
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Wow.

When'd this thread get so hostile?
Think it's time for a real change of topic, therefore, I'll throw this into the fray:

X-men

Think about it.
Diclonious = Mutant... possible connection?
Come on, don't we all want to see Nana in costume?!

Okay, on to a truly serious topic:

Post-anime.

Really, am I the only one who thinks Lucy's death (IF it happened) would change anything? Her birth was an anomaly, what's to say it couldn't happen again? Or that she was the only "Queen"?
I'll bet there are a lot more diclonious cases, not just in Japan either. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if things end up like they do in Will Smith's new movie... replacing the vampires with diclonious of course.

(Trying not to think of vampires vs diclonious... attempt failed)
Any other thoughts on post-anime plotlines?
(Ya know, the X-men thing's starting to make a lot more sense... damn fanfiction for poisoning my mind!)
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Old 2007-11-29, 08:15   Link #1985
Yorae_paladin1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNhite View Post
Wow.

When'd this thread get so hostile?
Think it's time for a real change of topic, therefore, I'll throw this into the fray:

X-men

Think about it.
Diclonious = Mutant... possible connection?
Come on, don't we all want to see Nana in costume?!

Okay, on to a truly serious topic:

Post-anime.

Really, am I the only one who thinks Lucy's death (IF it happened) would change anything? Her birth was an anomaly, what's to say it couldn't happen again? Or that she was the only "Queen"?
I'll bet there are a lot more diclonious cases, not just in Japan either. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if things end up like they do in Will Smith's new movie... replacing the vampires with diclonious of course.

(Trying not to think of vampires vs diclonious... attempt failed)
Any other thoughts on post-anime plotlines?
(Ya know, the X-men thing's starting to make a lot more sense... damn fanfiction for poisoning my mind!)
Those things in am legend are not vampires they are the entire human race infected by some virus which mutated six billion people to which will smiths character is immune. plus the diclonius cannot do that cause they can't spread as quickly for dicloni it would take centuries if not millenia to do that

Spoiler:
__________________
"I do not hate you. I do not think your a monster just another species trying to live like us humans. If there is a monster in this world its nature itself for wanting and allowing spectacles of death and destruction."

Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising
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Old 2007-11-29, 10:47   Link #1986
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNhite View Post
Wow.

When'd this thread get so hostile?
Think it's time for a real change of topic, therefore, I'll throw this into the fray:

X-men

Think about it.
Diclonious = Mutant... possible connection?
Come on, don't we all want to see Nana in costume?!

Okay, on to a truly serious topic:

Post-anime.

Really, am I the only one who thinks Lucy's death (IF it happened) would change anything? Her birth was an anomaly, what's to say it couldn't happen again? Or that she was the only "Queen"?
I'll bet there are a lot more diclonious cases, not just in Japan either. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if things end up like they do in Will Smith's new movie... replacing the vampires with diclonious of course.

(Trying not to think of vampires vs diclonious... attempt failed)
Any other thoughts on post-anime plotlines?
(Ya know, the X-men thing's starting to make a lot more sense... damn fanfiction for poisoning my mind!)
This thread became hostile because gaguri started insulting people who thought that while it was unlikely it was still possible that Lucy, or actually Nyu since only the Nyu personality can come out when Lucy has no horns, might have survived to be taken captive and eventually recover from her wounds. And then only in posts to third parties. He seemed more interested in insulting people who thought differently than he did in discussing the anime.

Actually Lucy was not the anomoly.
Spoiler for manga:


While in the manga Lucy never tells Kouta her feelings, which she regreted, and never kisses him, an equally emotional and more believable event takes place initiated by Kouta. There is no question about her fate and she truely gets to redeem herself, at least as it relates to Kouta.
Spoiler for manga:
__________________

Lucy & Nyu, reincarnated as diclonius twins.
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Old 2007-11-29, 14:15   Link #1987
gaguri
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I should correct you on the fact that I didn't insult anyone other than you only, the only one stupid enough to still argue on this equally stupid and pointless debate. The moment you stopped responding to my attacks that are concerned with the scenario, (i.e. the below quote by me)
Spoiler for me from above:

I took that as you agreeing, 'yes I was stupid, going further is pointless'. If you are still unconvinced we can start from here again, not from where you sidetracked off into this post,
Spoiler:

, which attempts to invalidate my points without even trying to address my concerns stated above.

I'm more interested in discussing the characters, themes, etc. behind animes and not the plausibility of the anime. It was fun for a while trolling and provoking angry responses but I guess it does get tiring and bit sad watching one come up with some of the most stupid and imaginative speculations.

EDIT: lol at below. Sad way to avoid questions that one can not answer.

Last edited by gaguri; 2007-11-30 at 05:50.
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Old 2007-11-29, 15:48   Link #1988
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
I should correct you on the fact that I didn't insult anyone other than you only, the only one stupid enough to still argue on this equally stupid and pointless debate. The moment you stopped responding to my attacks that are concerned with the scenario, (i.e. the below quote by me)
Spoiler for me from above:

I took that as you agreeing, 'yes I was stupid, going further is pointless'. If you are still unconvinced we can start from here again, not from where you sidetracked off into this post,
Spoiler:

, which attempts to invalidate my points without even trying to address my concerns stated above.

I'm more interested in discussing the characters, themes, etc. behind animes and not the plausibility of the anime. It was fun for a while trolling and provoking angry responses but I guess it does get tiring and bit sad watching one come up with some of the most stupid and imaginative speculations.
Spoiler:
__________________

Lucy & Nyu, reincarnated as diclonius twins.
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Old 2007-12-01, 21:41   Link #1989
Atsushi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
Never mind Arthas. I generally put '@' in front of name to address that particular someone, and sometimes people don't see that so meh.

@Pastprime

I don't need to be an expert on anything, pretty any sensible person with a triple digit IQ will argue that shooting scene seriously tests the plausibility of Lucy/Nyu's survival.

And who honestly think that bullets going over her head are going to come back at her like a homing missile. I suggest you hone you practise in interpretating other people's simple comments properly and not coming to totally wrong ideas, should you wish to have more meaningful conversations in the future.

And just because you're so uncoordinated and untrained with rifles, doesn't mean the soldiers are as incompetent as you. I'm willing to bet, at a close range (which she is at), way more than half of their shots will land on her (vital or non-vital, doesn't matter), with M-16, or AK, or even a bloody home-made rifle made by a 10 year olds in Africa, who probably have more common sense than you with such scenarios from seeing so many people being shot. I also would imagine that they've landed enough shots to literally turn her into a beehive.

And this is just my guess, but the guys with guns (and their leader) probably would have checked if she was really dead, before leaving the scene. I'm not a military expert like I've said, but I'm pretty sure one of the most important thing for soldiers/hired mercenaries/agents in completing their assassination mission, is that they actually confirm and check if their target really is dead.

And yes, Nana survived after her arms and legs were amputated. I think a normal conclusion we can draw from this, is that the animators wanted to make it all cool by pulling her arms and legs off, but needed Nana in the story, so they conjured up hocus pocus and walla, she survived. Likewise, maybe that really is Nyu behind the silhoutte. It just means that animators didn't do a very good job. But no, you just had to make yourself believe that she survived the shooting in a realistic manner. You can't accept the fact that animators zapped a deus ex to bring your beloved character. I understand that, and that's why I'm here to help you see the light ;D. I'm sure you have even more abstract and imaginative questions that runs wonderfully and freely in that sphere we call 'delusional'. Remember, I'm always here to answer for you~

Okay, I'm a complete n00b here so sorry if I offend anyone, but I just got done watching Elfen Lied last night. Now you seem dead on on what you have said. No matter how much I wish it isnt true, you really put it out there that Lucy/Nyu is dead. I'll probably have to rewatch the last episode to actully notice the things you have pointed out. But still there is one more question that lingers in my mind and that is who the person behind the door is? I now we will never know who it is exactly but I would like some peoples opinions. This has probably been discussed so much already but I dont wanna go and search the onehundred pages to find out what other people think. I still wish Lucy wouldnt have died though. T_T
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Old 2007-12-01, 22:32   Link #1990
TigerII
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Spoiler for Door:
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Old 2007-12-02, 04:48   Link #1991
gaguri
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@Atsushi

Here's a speculation I made years ago, and still unchanged. I have yet to meet anyone sharing my opinion, because justifiably, it's bit random and far-fetched, but I myself still prefer it than having to take Lucy as answer.
Spoiler:


Hope if that helped ^_^b. Thanks anyway for at least making an opportunity to talk about stuff more interesting and less retarded than trying to answer the question of 'how a girl can not die from being gunned closeshot by a group of trained gunners in a realistic manner'. It's good to know that there is one less ostrich out there, burying his head inside the ground. Yes, he can't see anything so there is nothing to worry about, but I wonder if he realises that his ass is still showing.
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Old 2007-12-02, 13:38   Link #1992
Atsushi
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Thats a pretty rock solid theory there but there are a few gap that I see.
Spoiler for Spoiler:


Other than that you have a pretty good theory. (I dont think I need to put that in spoiler qutes but meh). Oh, and thanks for not concidering me an ostrich. ^_^
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Old 2007-12-02, 15:17   Link #1993
Arthas1011
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Maybe, Nana didn't sense Lucy. Im beginning to think maybe the lucy side did get killed off or just that lucy went back to being dormant
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Old 2007-12-02, 19:00   Link #1994
gaguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atsushi
Thats a pretty rock solid theory there but there are a few gap that I see.
There are numerous gaps that one can point out, and I don't have any absolute backups for them simply because my theory leaves too much for imagination, based only on the three factors; 1. Strong implication that the director was going to produce Diclonius(s) and kill off all humans 2. Symbolic meaning I got from the music box and clock 3. Lucy is dead so...um yea...

I mean, I could argue that the research team somehow developed the diclonius superior, and can go near other inferior diclonius like Nana without her noticing. But as you can see, that's only a speculation, which may lead to pointless debate.

No way near a solid theory I suppose, but that's how I saw the girl behind the silhoutte to be.
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Old 2007-12-02, 19:02   Link #1995
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WOW gaguri that's a brilliant theory. Musta taken you ages to think that up! But, as well as what Atsushi said, there's something I gotta say. It seems to me that Lucy doesn't want to continue the Diclonius race.

Spoiler:


Course it's just a theory, not saying it's definately what happened. ^_^
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Old 2007-12-02, 19:06   Link #1996
gaguri
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Didn't take me ages to come to the idea (or maybe it did, but it was so long ago I can't remember), but took ages to type all that in a coherent manner, backed up by all the details I could find...it's a simple idea, but quite a far-fetched one without considering the implication and symbols I've mentioned before.

As for Nyu coming back alive...I don't like the idea of Nyu somehow 'waking up' alive in that body (if it's still in one piece) but ok...
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Old 2007-12-02, 19:11   Link #1997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
I don't like the idea of Nyu somehow 'waking up' alive in that body (if it's still in one piece) but ok...
Ah yeah that's a very good point.
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Old 2007-12-02, 21:43   Link #1998
Atsushi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
There are numerous gaps that one can point out, and I don't have any absolute backups for them simply because my theory leaves too much for imagination, based only on the three factors; 1. Strong implication that the director was going to produce Diclonius(s) and kill off all humans 2. Symbolic meaning I got from the music box and clock 3. Lucy is dead so...um yea...

I mean, I could argue that the research team somehow developed the diclonius superior, and can go near other inferior diclonius like Nana without her noticing. But as you can see, that's only a speculation, which may lead to pointless debate.

No way near a solid theory I suppose, but that's how I saw the girl behind the silhoutte to be.
Yeah, it is true that every theory has its loopholes, and that is what makes them a theory. If it had absolutly no loopholes it would be fact.

Oh, and I wathced the OVA today, a bit more info on Lucy's background and a bit of comedy involving Nana. lol, a bit of an enlightening episode. And it takes place somewhere between like 10 and 11 or something right?
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Old 2007-12-02, 23:43   Link #1999
TigerII
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But I thought the ones with the 'hands' were all killed or hiding(Nana). Aren't the others just humans with horns? If that is the case, then they can only fight as a human, and can die just as easily.

And if they do have more with 'hands', I would be hard pressed to believe one could survive a tank shell or aviation bomb/missle. While he does run a rich company with many weapons, when the world's militaries finally got involved, they would ultimately be stopped.

Also, not all the Diclonius are cold blooded killers(Nana).


So looking at it from a tactical view, I don't think the Diclonius could take the world. From what is shown, Humans out number them, plus have the ultimate technology if need be. No matter how many 'hands' you have, you are not going to stop a thermonuclear weapon(Though that would be a last resort).
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Old 2007-12-03, 04:17   Link #2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atsushi View Post
Oh, and I wathced the OVA today, a bit more info on Lucy's background and a bit of comedy involving Nana. lol, a bit of an enlightening episode. And it takes place somewhere between like 10 and 11 or something right?
Yup that's right. Ahh it really annoys me when people call it "episode 14"...

Heh yeah I love the bits with Nana, especially when she comes home and Nyuu's face! ^_^ By the way TigerII they're called "vectors".
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