(L) Elfen Lied

[gaguri]

@Atsushi

Here's a speculation I made years ago, and still unchanged. I have yet to meet anyone sharing my opinion, because justifiably, it's bit random and far-fetched, but I myself still prefer it than having to take Lucy as answer.

Spoiler:

People might not remember this, but the director, who ordered the hunting and researching of diclonius, is diclonius himself. Now, like other majority of diclonius, he too wants to create a world for diclonius. Although unlike other diclonius we have come to know, like Lucy and Nana who at some points wished to create a world only for diclonius because they didn't want to be discriminated against, he probably just wanted to do this to become the 'creator', for power, etc. but that's besides the point. He wants this world to be of diclonius, not humans.

So at the end, we see the female researcher wanting to take a bath. At this, the director makes a rhetorical question, I think something on the line of 'why take a bath, it's almost over' and takes his wig off to show her his diclonius nature. To me, although subtle, this is a strong implication of him intending to produce (or mass produce) diclonius by mating with her. I guess it makes more sense for him to produce them via cloning technology, but the implication was what I saw, unmistakably. I could be overanalysing this scene, and I guess it's valid for anyone to come up now and say 'thats stupid', but that's what I got.

So ultimately, the person behind the silhoutte is one of the evil diclonius produced by the director, in order to kill all humans to make a world for diclonius.

Now, how does this all tie in with the music box and the clock? For me, the music of Lilium symbolises the hope, inner goodness that existed within the heart of diclonius, despite their desire to kill everyone. Lucy was horribly discriminated, she cursed the world. Then Kouta's lilium music box enters like a light, diffusing that gloomy darkness of her heart. It shows that there still can exist a genuine love and care between two people, even if one is a diclonius and one is a human. And Lucy accepted that. I think that is why it was so powerful when lilium was played over the climax where Lucy and Kouta hugged each other, because it reminds you of why they're still in love with each other, despite all the wrongs they inflicted.

But when the killer diclonius visits Kouta, the music stops because there no longer exists that music and harmony between diclonius and humans. The love between Kouta and Lucy, which was such a hope for the peace between two races, the possibilty of two races understanding each other without discriminating, has collapsed. And so has that bridge between diclonius and humans.

And then the clock rings the sound of doom. I suppose Nyu tried to fix the clock but failed, because although her inner evil Lucy, and the evil diclonius nature, wanted to begin the 'time for diclonius, and end for humans', she loves Kouta (who is human) too much, and his love is also binding her from acting on her intuition. Now there is nothing stopping from ringing the end of time for humans, because from that point, it's time for diclonius to start making place for themselves by killing off all humans.

It was a very grim, almost horror-like ending for me, and obviously very different from the happy and hopeful endings of Lucy coming back alive with all her evil sides chopped off. I guess either interpretation is fine, and one could make interpretations that are different from these two (although I haven't read of one yet). It just depends on how you responded to the anime in general and views on the characters, the messages that the anime was trying to convey.

Hope if that helped ^_^b. Thanks anyway for at least making an opportunity to talk about stuff more interesting and less retarded than trying to answer the question of 'how a girl can not die from being gunned closeshot by a group of trained gunners in a realistic manner'. It's good to know that there is one less ostrich out there, burying his head inside the ground. Yes, he can't see anything so there is nothing to worry about, but I wonder if he realises that his ass is still showing.

[Atsushi]

Thats a pretty rock solid theory there but there are a few gap that I see.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

If the person at the door is a new diclonius then why didn't Nana sense it coming. That is unless this new diclonius can supress its power so that Nana cant sense it. (reminds me of Claymore and how they supress their Yoki, but thats beside the point) The other thing is it would take at least 5-7 years for this new diclonius to come to the age where it would be sent out to kill. This brings me to the point that none of the characters age. You might not see much of a difference in Kohta or Yuka, but Mayu, Nana, and Wanta would all have aged significantly.

Other than that you have a pretty good theory. (I dont think I need to put that in spoiler qutes but meh). Oh, and thanks for not concidering me an ostrich. ^_^

[Arthas1011]

Maybe, Nana didn't sense Lucy. Im beginning to think maybe the lucy side did get killed off or just that lucy went back to being dormant

[gaguri]

Originally Posted by Atsushi

Thats a pretty rock solid theory there but there are a few gap that I see.

There are numerous gaps that one can point out, and I don't have any absolute backups for them simply because my theory leaves too much for imagination, based only on the three factors; 1. Strong implication that the director was going to produce Diclonius(s) and kill off all humans 2. Symbolic meaning I got from the music box and clock 3. Lucy is dead so...um yea...

I mean, I could argue that the research team somehow developed the diclonius superior, and can go near other inferior diclonius like Nana without her noticing. But as you can see, that's only a speculation, which may lead to pointless debate.

No way near a solid theory I suppose, but that's how I saw the girl behind the silhoutte to be.

[Reno]

WOW gaguri that's a brilliant theory. Musta taken you ages to think that up! But, as well as what Atsushi said, there's something I gotta say. It seems to me that Lucy doesn't want to continue the Diclonius race.

Spoiler:

Remember the end of the fifth episode? She killed the boss' son (forgot his name) when he was giving her that very chance. Also on the last episode she said to Kouta that the only reason she kept on living was because she just wanted to talk to him again. Nothing else seemed important.

Anyway, now I think about it, maybe it IS possible that Nyuu came back. Because, well yeah like you said, they most probably DID go and check that she was dead. But maybe it was jsut Lucy. You know, thinking of the scene in episode 5 again, Nyuu went to sleep, and then Lucy woke up. It could be the opposite. The soldiers just left before she awoke.

Course it's just a theory, not saying it's definately what happened. ^_^

[gaguri]

Didn't take me ages to come to the idea (or maybe it did, but it was so long ago I can't remember), but took ages to type all that in a coherent manner, backed up by all the details I could find...it's a simple idea, but quite a far-fetched one without considering the implication and symbols I've mentioned before.

As for Nyu coming back alive...I don't like the idea of Nyu somehow 'waking up' alive in that body (if it's still in one piece) but ok...

[Reno]

Originally Posted by gaguri

I don't like the idea of Nyu somehow 'waking up' alive in that body (if it's still in one piece) but ok...

Ah yeah that's a very good point.

[Atsushi]

Originally Posted by gaguri

There are numerous gaps that one can point out, and I don't have any absolute backups for them simply because my theory leaves too much for imagination, based only on the three factors; 1. Strong implication that the director was going to produce Diclonius(s) and kill off all humans 2. Symbolic meaning I got from the music box and clock 3. Lucy is dead so...um yea...

I mean, I could argue that the research team somehow developed the diclonius superior, and can go near other inferior diclonius like Nana without her noticing. But as you can see, that's only a speculation, which may lead to pointless debate.

No way near a solid theory I suppose, but that's how I saw the girl behind the silhoutte to be.

Yeah, it is true that every theory has its loopholes, and that is what makes them a theory. If it had absolutly no loopholes it would be fact.

Oh, and I wathced the OVA today, a bit more info on Lucy's background and a bit of comedy involving Nana. lol, a bit of an enlightening episode. And it takes place somewhere between like 10 and 11 or something right?

[TigerII]

But I thought the ones with the 'hands' were all killed or hiding(Nana). Aren't the others just humans with horns? If that is the case, then they can only fight as a human, and can die just as easily.

And if they do have more with 'hands', I would be hard pressed to believe one could survive a tank shell or aviation bomb/missle. While he does run a rich company with many weapons, when the world's militaries finally got involved, they would ultimately be stopped.

Also, not all the Diclonius are cold blooded killers(Nana).


So looking at it from a tactical view, I don't think the Diclonius could take the world. From what is shown, Humans out number them, plus have the ultimate technology if need be. No matter how many 'hands' you have, you are not going to stop a thermonuclear weapon(Though that would be a last resort).

[Reno]

Originally Posted by Atsushi

Oh, and I wathced the OVA today, a bit more info on Lucy's background and a bit of comedy involving Nana. lol, a bit of an enlightening episode. And it takes place somewhere between like 10 and 11 or something right?

Yup that's right. Ahh it really annoys me when people call it "episode 14"...

Heh yeah I love the bits with Nana, especially when she comes home and Nyuu's face! ^_^ By the way TigerII they're called "vectors".

[gaguri]

Originally Posted by tigerII

But I thought the ones with the 'hands' were all killed or hiding(Nana). Aren't the others just humans with horns? If that is the case, then they can only fight as a human, and can die just as easily.

And if they do have more with 'hands', I would be hard pressed to believe one could survive a tank shell or aviation bomb/missle. While he does run a rich company with many weapons, when the world's militaries finally got involved, they would ultimately be stopped.

Also, not all the Diclonius are cold blooded killers(Nana).


So looking at it from a tactical view, I don't think the Diclonius could take the world. From what is shown, Humans out number them, plus have the ultimate technology if need be. No matter how many 'hands' you have, you are not going to stop a thermonuclear weapon(Though that would be a last resort).

*sigh* Looking at anything in Elfen Lied from a tactical point of view, lot of things doesn't make sense, let alone my theory, and I don't really want to discuss how the directors would research diclonius to be stronger, or how the UN and the governments around the world would devise strategic plans against this. But at least it's something I think is plausible, and not downright impossible. I mean, I could come up with arguments like, diclonius starting to blend into the society more efficiently, and slowly starting to produce even more diclonius by implanting their seeds into men's brains (like we've seen). And then you can come up with equally pointless argument of the government developing new ways of detecting diclonius and killing them all off before they spread more into the human race. It's an endless and pointless cycle of speculations. That is something we wish to avoid in an anime which has very little to do with realism. Just remember that Lucy could have been easily taken down way beforehand, if we're considering realistic circumstances like you have.

Besides, I don't mean that the diclonius will necessarily win in the battle between humans. I'm just saying, that's what the diclonius intends to do, or at least that's what I'm trying to say.

And it doesn't matter if all the diclonius with vectors are killed off or hiding, since I'm basically saying that they've produced more to get rid of all humans. And if I remember correctly, the director himself is diclonius (and so was his brother). Just because they don't have vectors like their female counterpart, does that make them humans? I'd be much more inclined to believe that they're male diclonius without vectors rather than them being normal humans with erm, pointy thing coming out of their heads.

And Nana still have cold blooded killer instinct inside her, like all diclonius. The research, well at least according to them, they start showing killer nature at a young age by instinctively killing people at the smallest threats and sometimes for just fun. For this diclonius race and men to exist, they need love and acceptance like the relationship between Kouta and Lucy has shown, but there simply is too much discrimination as we've all clearly seen. Nana was able to repress her killer side simply through the love and understanding given by the man with glasses, and Kouta and co.

[TigerII]

The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by TigerII

Spoiler for Door:

In the manga it was a mailman or something like that.

That arc in the anime was very different from the manga and the last anime scene never happened in the manga. Nyu, minus horns, returned right after her fight with Mariko. And Kouta didn't see the fights or get his memory back.

[Yorae_paladin1]

Originally Posted by TigerII

The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.

Spoiler:

Yes diclonius are not there own species they just upgraded humans the manga pretty much says so bia lucy anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. And many factor pretty much say so. If diclonius were there own species then reproducing with humans should be impossible or they would create infertile hybrids plus not look human and that does not happen. Diclonius are just an upgrade of humans the manga description says mutated homo sapien not something else. Ana the daughter of kakuzawa kept this from her father and let him live out his false delusional fantasy world.

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by TigerII

The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.

Spoiler for manga:

There is nothing in the manga to indicate hostility from, or a killer instinct in the diclonius in the past. The original diclonius lost their powers from mating with normal humans. I think that the purpose of the vector virus was to prevent that from happening again, not to infect normal humans and cause vector virus diclonius. And there is no mention of the diclonius that appeared from time to time infecting others or being violent. Only that they dissappeared after a geberation because they were sterile. The one responsible for everything was Kakuzawa. After the diclonius decendants lost their powers, the ones with horns were hunted and killed as demons. The survivers took refuge on the island where the research facility is at. Because of that he hated normal humans and wanted to replace them with diclonius, which he mistakenly believed was a seperate species. He always knew about Lucy and it was his plan for her to become the way she was. The part that was not according to his plans was her meeting Kouta and falliing in love. Her mother never intended for her to grow up in the orphanage, but when she was going to got back for Lucy Kakuzawa kidnapped her. She ended up killing herself. And, I suspect that the voice telling all the Vector Virus Diclonius to kill came from Lucy through some type of telepathic link and died with her.
Not that vectors would not be deady anyway. Just imagine road rage or PMS with vectors. If my wife had vectors I would probably have died long ago.
And, in the manga, it appears that the slow transition of humans without horns to humans with, as Lucy put it, horns and a special power never stops. There is a good chance that the twins who appear at the end, close to 11years after, are second generation true diclonius, possibly Lucy's nieces since one of them was named after her real name.

[Arthas1011]

Interesting spoiler PastPrime. Which manga chapter is it in?

[foreverdissevered]

urm... Drop this already lol... Lucy dead or alive idc. If you cant convince them, dont bother trying. Everyone has their own sense of logic, who is to say one way is better than the other?

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by Arthas1011

Interesting spoiler PastPrime. Which manga chapter is it in?

Spoiler for manga:

For the diclonius that were born from time to time, in episode three of the anime Kurama says that they normally died shortly after birth or died out after one generation. No mention of them infecting people or being violent.
Chapter 84 has how Lucy was originally captured, part of which is shown in the OVA.
Chapter 86 has Kakuzawa telling Nyu about the ancient diclonius race.
Chapter 87 has Nyu, still without horns, using her vectors, first to try and get Kakuzawa, but, since he is out of range, to escape her bonds. It has her attacked by Kakuzawa’s daughter Anna, then her horns grew back almost instantly and she become Lucy again. And, evidently, released all the Vector Virus diclonius in the research facility.
Chapter 90 has Kakuzawa telling Lucy about her mother and introducing her to his youngest son, who is her diclonius half brother.
Chapter 107, at the end around 11 years later, we find out Lucy’s real name from a note that child Lucy left for Kouta in her dog’s grave. Then, while Kouta is there crying, the twins, one of them named after Lucy’s real name, come to meet him.

[TigerII]

Originally Posted by foreverdissevered

urm... Drop this already lol... Lucy dead or alive idc. If you cant convince them, dont bother trying. Everyone has their own sense of logic, who is to say one way is better than the other?

I don't think there really is a definate answer, it is up to the viewer on this one. But yeah I agree, it is bad to get hostile on each other over if she is dead or not.

[davidvoyage]

Here is what I know now after reading "a bit of manga" and the whole anime:

Spoiler for Manga+Anime Spoiler:

-I read somewhere that Elfen Lied season 2 has been confirmed. THAT make me sure that Lucy is 100% not dead.
-The girl behind the front door is Nyuu. (According to the manga, when lucy lost both of her horns, she became Nyuu. But the horns will grow back later on.)
-Once her horns are back, she may be able to become lucy again. (this is what I expect in season 2)