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Old 2007-12-02, 19:00   Link #2001
gaguri
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Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atsushi
Thats a pretty rock solid theory there but there are a few gap that I see.
There are numerous gaps that one can point out, and I don't have any absolute backups for them simply because my theory leaves too much for imagination, based only on the three factors; 1. Strong implication that the director was going to produce Diclonius(s) and kill off all humans 2. Symbolic meaning I got from the music box and clock 3. Lucy is dead so...um yea...

I mean, I could argue that the research team somehow developed the diclonius superior, and can go near other inferior diclonius like Nana without her noticing. But as you can see, that's only a speculation, which may lead to pointless debate.

No way near a solid theory I suppose, but that's how I saw the girl behind the silhoutte to be.
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Old 2007-12-02, 19:02   Link #2002
Reno
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WOW gaguri that's a brilliant theory. Musta taken you ages to think that up! But, as well as what Atsushi said, there's something I gotta say. It seems to me that Lucy doesn't want to continue the Diclonius race.

Spoiler:


Course it's just a theory, not saying it's definately what happened. ^_^
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Old 2007-12-02, 19:06   Link #2003
gaguri
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Didn't take me ages to come to the idea (or maybe it did, but it was so long ago I can't remember), but took ages to type all that in a coherent manner, backed up by all the details I could find...it's a simple idea, but quite a far-fetched one without considering the implication and symbols I've mentioned before.

As for Nyu coming back alive...I don't like the idea of Nyu somehow 'waking up' alive in that body (if it's still in one piece) but ok...
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Old 2007-12-02, 19:11   Link #2004
Reno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
I don't like the idea of Nyu somehow 'waking up' alive in that body (if it's still in one piece) but ok...
Ah yeah that's a very good point.
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Old 2007-12-02, 21:43   Link #2005
Atsushi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
There are numerous gaps that one can point out, and I don't have any absolute backups for them simply because my theory leaves too much for imagination, based only on the three factors; 1. Strong implication that the director was going to produce Diclonius(s) and kill off all humans 2. Symbolic meaning I got from the music box and clock 3. Lucy is dead so...um yea...

I mean, I could argue that the research team somehow developed the diclonius superior, and can go near other inferior diclonius like Nana without her noticing. But as you can see, that's only a speculation, which may lead to pointless debate.

No way near a solid theory I suppose, but that's how I saw the girl behind the silhoutte to be.
Yeah, it is true that every theory has its loopholes, and that is what makes them a theory. If it had absolutly no loopholes it would be fact.

Oh, and I wathced the OVA today, a bit more info on Lucy's background and a bit of comedy involving Nana. lol, a bit of an enlightening episode. And it takes place somewhere between like 10 and 11 or something right?
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Old 2007-12-02, 23:43   Link #2006
TigerII
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But I thought the ones with the 'hands' were all killed or hiding(Nana). Aren't the others just humans with horns? If that is the case, then they can only fight as a human, and can die just as easily.

And if they do have more with 'hands', I would be hard pressed to believe one could survive a tank shell or aviation bomb/missle. While he does run a rich company with many weapons, when the world's militaries finally got involved, they would ultimately be stopped.

Also, not all the Diclonius are cold blooded killers(Nana).


So looking at it from a tactical view, I don't think the Diclonius could take the world. From what is shown, Humans out number them, plus have the ultimate technology if need be. No matter how many 'hands' you have, you are not going to stop a thermonuclear weapon(Though that would be a last resort).
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Old 2007-12-03, 04:17   Link #2007
Reno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atsushi View Post
Oh, and I wathced the OVA today, a bit more info on Lucy's background and a bit of comedy involving Nana. lol, a bit of an enlightening episode. And it takes place somewhere between like 10 and 11 or something right?
Yup that's right. Ahh it really annoys me when people call it "episode 14"...

Heh yeah I love the bits with Nana, especially when she comes home and Nyuu's face! ^_^ By the way TigerII they're called "vectors".
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Old 2007-12-03, 05:41   Link #2008
gaguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerII
But I thought the ones with the 'hands' were all killed or hiding(Nana). Aren't the others just humans with horns? If that is the case, then they can only fight as a human, and can die just as easily.

And if they do have more with 'hands', I would be hard pressed to believe one could survive a tank shell or aviation bomb/missle. While he does run a rich company with many weapons, when the world's militaries finally got involved, they would ultimately be stopped.

Also, not all the Diclonius are cold blooded killers(Nana).


So looking at it from a tactical view, I don't think the Diclonius could take the world. From what is shown, Humans out number them, plus have the ultimate technology if need be. No matter how many 'hands' you have, you are not going to stop a thermonuclear weapon(Though that would be a last resort).
*sigh* Looking at anything in Elfen Lied from a tactical point of view, lot of things doesn't make sense, let alone my theory, and I don't really want to discuss how the directors would research diclonius to be stronger, or how the UN and the governments around the world would devise strategic plans against this. But at least it's something I think is plausible, and not downright impossible. I mean, I could come up with arguments like, diclonius starting to blend into the society more efficiently, and slowly starting to produce even more diclonius by implanting their seeds into men's brains (like we've seen). And then you can come up with equally pointless argument of the government developing new ways of detecting diclonius and killing them all off before they spread more into the human race. It's an endless and pointless cycle of speculations. That is something we wish to avoid in an anime which has very little to do with realism. Just remember that Lucy could have been easily taken down way beforehand, if we're considering realistic circumstances like you have.

Besides, I don't mean that the diclonius will necessarily win in the battle between humans. I'm just saying, that's what the diclonius intends to do, or at least that's what I'm trying to say.

And it doesn't matter if all the diclonius with vectors are killed off or hiding, since I'm basically saying that they've produced more to get rid of all humans. And if I remember correctly, the director himself is diclonius (and so was his brother). Just because they don't have vectors like their female counterpart, does that make them humans? I'd be much more inclined to believe that they're male diclonius without vectors rather than them being normal humans with erm, pointy thing coming out of their heads.

And Nana still have cold blooded killer instinct inside her, like all diclonius. The research, well at least according to them, they start showing killer nature at a young age by instinctively killing people at the smallest threats and sometimes for just fun. For this diclonius race and men to exist, they need love and acceptance like the relationship between Kouta and Lucy has shown, but there simply is too much discrimination as we've all clearly seen. Nana was able to repress her killer side simply through the love and understanding given by the man with glasses, and Kouta and co.
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Old 2007-12-03, 09:00   Link #2009
TigerII
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The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.

Last edited by TigerII; 2007-12-03 at 09:11.
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Old 2007-12-03, 11:07   Link #2010
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
Spoiler for Door:
That arc in the anime was very different from the manga and the last anime scene never happened in the manga. Nyu, minus horns, returned right after her fight with Mariko. And Kouta didn't see the fights or get his memory back.
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Lucy & Nyu, reincarnated as diclonius twins.
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Old 2007-12-03, 11:27   Link #2011
Yorae_paladin1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.
Spoiler:
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"I do not hate you. I do not think your a monster just another species trying to live like us humans. If there is a monster in this world its nature itself for wanting and allowing spectacles of death and destruction."

Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising

Last edited by Yorae_paladin1; 2007-12-03 at 11:44.
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Old 2007-12-03, 11:46   Link #2012
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.
Spoiler for manga:
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Lucy & Nyu, reincarnated as diclonius twins.
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Old 2007-12-06, 18:31   Link #2013
Arthas1011
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Interesting spoiler PastPrime. Which manga chapter is it in?
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Old 2007-12-06, 22:25   Link #2014
foreverdissevered
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urm... Drop this already lol... Lucy dead or alive idc. If you cant convince them, dont bother trying. Everyone has their own sense of logic, who is to say one way is better than the other?
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Old 2007-12-07, 12:14   Link #2015
PastPrime
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Originally Posted by Arthas1011 View Post
Interesting spoiler PastPrime. Which manga chapter is it in?
Spoiler for manga:
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Lucy & Nyu, reincarnated as diclonius twins.

Last edited by PastPrime; 2007-12-10 at 10:50.
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Old 2007-12-07, 12:36   Link #2016
TigerII
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Originally Posted by foreverdissevered View Post
urm... Drop this already lol... Lucy dead or alive idc. If you cant convince them, dont bother trying. Everyone has their own sense of logic, who is to say one way is better than the other?
I don't think there really is a definate answer, it is up to the viewer on this one. But yeah I agree, it is bad to get hostile on each other over if she is dead or not.
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Old 2007-12-08, 18:24   Link #2017
davidvoyage
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Here is what I know now after reading "a bit of manga" and the whole anime:

Spoiler for Manga+Anime Spoiler:
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Old 2007-12-09, 03:26   Link #2018
gaguri
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Actually there is no confirmation of season two yet from any credible source. Unless one is tool enough to believe a rumour spread in random forums or fan-made clips. Or maybe I'm living under a rock, so someone may kindly enlighten this lazy fool with a credible source.

I also dislike using manga to derive plots in anime, since they're essentially two different stories (just like how manga and anime in Bokurano, FullMetalAlchemist, etc. tell different stories). What's important are the things occuring on the screen and not on the pages. Ignoring your take on characters, messages, story progression, etc. and accepting informations spoon fed from what is essentially a different story, is what I'd consider as a blind interpretation.
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Old 2007-12-09, 15:53   Link #2019
Arthas1011
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Maybe if we found a way to e-mail the creators or write to them?? Then we could request it of them??
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Old 2007-12-11, 13:59   Link #2020
CheoChiem
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anime was awesome killed alot of people roarrrrrrr
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