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Old 2007-12-03, 23:00   Link #61
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
This part isn't related to static electricity but I'm interest in a certain "sweet" period when buying computer components. From what I know, it's usually the time when the component makers release the latest stuffs.
I can't help you much with the static stuff, but maybe I can share some insight on this.

Usually technology grows exponentially - it's one of the few if not the only thing in human development that does grow exponentially. As time passes, it grows more and more and more, and it doubles, if not triples each time. ( Just take for example the Core 2 Duos and the new C2X Yorksfield with triple the cache of all its predecessors and you'll understand what I mean ). So it's really not worth it for the average user to upgrade to the new stuff as soon as it's out. In fact, that's only good to those people who have money to waste because as soon as they get their components, they are already old and obsolete.

Of course there are sweet spots where you can get the biggest discounts. For DDR2, now is the time. I mean, I paid over 200 dollars for my 2 gigs of DDR2800 less than ten months ago, and now they are at a wholly 40 bucks after rebate. It's ridiculous, but that's how stuff goes. That doesn't necessarily mean that you should get older tech just because it's cheap - in many cases it's actually the contrary. Let's take again the example of memory. Try finding a 1GB stick of DDR 1 266 stick for less than what you could buy that Patriot set I showed you. You may be able to find it, but it's definitely not worth the price. You could think of it as a parabola opening up - You start with a high price, and as time progresses, you'll hit the bottom of the parabola... From there on, as there will be less demand for these old parts, the prices will go up again. It doesn't hold true for everything, as you can see with Processors and everything, but the technology is just not worth the price it's selling for.

It's almost like a car. If you buy it new, you just lost 25% of it's value the moment you take it out of the dealership, just like that.

With that being said, you're probably at a very good time for buying hardware right now. During times of transition of technology is that prices really fall - The 8800's are just top of the line and still in the $600 a GPU in the case of the Ultras because the 9800's haven't dropped in price yet, and the cards ATI is putting out are great on paper and on build, but they aren't keeping up with the performance. It may be the drivers, but I haven't seen a single good review of anything ATI/AMD has been putting out lately, which tends to be bad for consumers because prices of the hardware that is selling well just won't drop due to lack of competition.

( Just to illustrate another point of the exponential growth, the GeForce 7950GT has 24 Pixel Pipelines, while the 8800GTX has 128 [ although they now are called Stream Processing Units and are a different technology, but just look at those numbers...], while the HD3870 has mind-boggling 320... )

Now you're buying this computer for around $1000 bucks, but during the time most of that technology came out, you'd probably pay at least $1800 for that. And really, the 7900GS you picked up is a very good card, very close to the ultimate flagship of the 7000 series, the 7950. But that card was probably over $200 when it first came out. Memory and Hard Drive are at an all-time low and the CPU you picked was probably much more expensive if it wasn't for the quad-cores at a lower price and all. So, after all this talking, I'm really hungry for building a new comp...


Ps.: Talked about you and how everyone's contributing a bit to your system here and there with my professor, the head of the Computer Science at the University I go to. He was pretty impressed and wished you good luck, and that it's always nice to be able to build it yourself.
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Old 2007-12-03, 23:24   Link #62
teachopvutru
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What if you are flying? Or would the excess electricity reacts to air as well?

Anyway, if "ground" is what can infinitely accept charge... then in the example of plugging PSU into power socket, and while letting PSU in contact with the computer case, touch the case, what would be the "ground"? The PSU? The case? Or both (since they have direct contact to each other)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
I can't help you much with the static stuff, but maybe I can share some insight on this.

Usually technology grows exponentially - it's one of the few if not the only thing in human development that does grow exponentially. As time passes, it grows more and more and more, and it doubles, if not triples each time. ( Just take for example the Core 2 Duos and the new C2X Yorksfield with triple the cache of all its predecessors and you'll understand what I mean ). So it's really not worth it for the average user to upgrade to the new stuff as soon as it's out. In fact, that's only good to those people who have money to waste because as soon as they get their components, they are already old and obsolete.
What I mean was that as soon as the newest component come out, the 1 or 2 generations before it drops in price by quite a large amount. (or so I've heard) Therefore, I was asking how to know what those times come, unless the only solution is to keep track of technology news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Ps.: Talked about you and how everyone's contributing a bit to your system here and there with my professor, the head of the Computer Science at the University I go to. He was pretty impressed and wished you good luck, and that it's always nice to be able to build it yourself.
Hehe, thanks. I appreciate you guys helps a lot (honestly I don't know how fast I'll be able to pick this up without this thread, and I certainly didn't plan to buy them this early). Give your professor my thanks as well. (wow, just misspelled "professor" as "processor" <.< ... It'd be a pretty good laugh if not for the edit button)

Right now all the components beside the PSU (wonder why) are being transferred to Maryland (transferred from New Jersey). When excluding PSU, everything beside the monitor tells me that it's 14 pound (the monitor is 25 pound), so I'm thinking they are packing two packages, 1 for monitor alone, and the other one for the rest.
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Last edited by teachopvutru; 2007-12-03 at 23:57.
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Old 2007-12-03, 23:40   Link #63
Zero Shinohara
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Well probably yes, since there are lots of news about lots of components around. But I find Newegg a very reliable source for that, since they tend to keep stock of the newest tech available. Example, I only realized DDR3 came out for desktop use when I saw the first sticks being advertised there - but that may be because I don't usually pay close attention to this stuff.

And the concept of "Generation" always changes. For example, you could say the E6400 is a generation behind the E6550 because of the FSB changes and etc. DDR2 1066 is a generation in front of DDR2 800, while DDR3 1600 is quite far out there. I'm not sure how the terminology goes, but I'd say you have no choice but to keep track of common release dates and everything else.
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Old 2007-12-04, 00:09   Link #64
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Well probably yes, since there are lots of news about lots of components around. But I find Newegg a very reliable source for that, since they tend to keep stock of the newest tech available. Example, I only realized DDR3 came out for desktop use when I saw the first sticks being advertised there - but that may be because I don't usually pay close attention to this stuff.

And the concept of "Generation" always changes. For example, you could say the E6400 is a generation behind the E6550 because of the FSB changes and etc. DDR2 1066 is a generation in front of DDR2 800, while DDR3 1600 is quite far out there. I'm not sure how the terminology goes, but I'd say you have no choice but to keep track of common release dates and everything else.
Well, I wonder how feasible it is to aim at around $100 average for each component with the maximum limit $200 for one component.

I probably wouldn't know where to start if hobbes_fan didn't mention DDR2 800 for RAM, and gave me a head start on C2D.
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Old 2007-12-04, 00:17   Link #65
Zero Shinohara
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Well, I wonder how feasible it is to aim at around $100 average for each component with the maximum limit $200 for one component.
Isn't that what you're doing? If you take out your Monitor and CPU, everything you got is in the low 100's, with the PSU and case being actually pretty cheap. It's feasible, and actually it's the sweet spot for a general purpose computer, in my opinion. In my case, I could've gone with the GTX if I wanted, but really why would I? My GTS destroys basically every game out there with the exception of Crysis, though it still runs very well even with very high settings ( and trust me, Crysis is a resource hog to the max... This thing pushes all of the latest hardware to the limit. ), not to say stuff like Lineage 2, WoW, which it goes over as if they are nothing.

On the other hand, my grandma's computer gets heavily bottlenecked by the 333mhz ram and the Sempron 1.8ghz it has, not managing to go over 20 FPS with tweaked very low settings - though the Very Low, Low and Medium settings tend to perform pretty close to one another, since it's packing a well-powered X850XT.

Hardware is definitely a strange thing. It certainly is.

On another note, I'm just getting my hands on Artificial Girl 3. I wanna know if my rig is enough to sustain good FPS... Meaning, Faps per Second.
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Old 2007-12-04, 00:26   Link #66
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Faps per.... second.....

You'd be pretty tired..... pretty quickly.
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Old 2007-12-04, 00:29   Link #67
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Isn't that what you're doing?
I guess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
If you take out your Monitor and CPU, everything you got is in the low 100's, with the PSU and case being actually pretty cheap. It's feasible, and actually it's the sweet spot for a general purpose computer, in my opinion. In my case, I could've gone with the GTX if I wanted, but really why would I? My GTS destroys basically every game out there with the exception of Crysis, though it still runs very well even with very high settings ( and trust me, Crysis is a resource hog to the max... This thing pushes all of the latest hardware to the limit. ), not to say stuff like Lineage 2, WoW, which it goes over as if they are nothing.
Yep, I've heard talks about the game Crysis on a game forum. Stuffs like how detail it is and how incredibly interactive the graphical environment is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
On another note, I'm just getting my hands on Artificial Girl 3. I wanna know if my rig is enough to sustain good FPS... Meaning, Faps per Second.
What's Faps per second? Anyway, just did a search on "Artificial Girl 3" and it seems to be a pretty err game (although from the title anyone should have guessed so). On another note, are you able to read Japanese or something?
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Old 2007-12-04, 00:48   Link #68
Zero Shinohara
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@problemedchild:

Come on, it was funny!

Quote:
What's Faps per second? Anyway, just did a search on "Artificial Girl 3" and it seems to be a pretty err game (although from the title anyone should have guessed so). On another note, are you able to read Japanese or something?
You better... not know.... It was just a joke anyway. <_< ...

And yes, Artificial Girl 3 is the third game in the AG series, which is a well-known 3D Hentai game. I can't read or speak Japanese, but these games are usually more about the interactivity than the storylines ( As opposed to games like Clannad, YumeMiru Kusuri and countless others ), so there's basically very little to actually read and understand.

I'm curious to see if AG3 is better than Love Death 2, another 3D game that has a, you thought it, very cute Hatsune Miku Mod That one actually has a deeper story than AG2 and Sexy Beach 3, for example, but the gameplay is where the fun is at.



Pretty cute.

And speaking of Crysis, it's undoubtedly the best FPS out there in my opinion. It's hard to explain why, but it's so realistic is hard to think you're playing a game. Seriously, you get so immersed in it that's not even funny.
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Old 2007-12-04, 00:59   Link #69
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
You better... not know.... It was just a joke anyway. <_< ...
All I had gathered was that you made a pun out of Fraps Per Second. I couldn't find what Fap means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
And yes, Artificial Girl 3 is the third game in the AG series, which is a well-known 3D Hentai game. I can't read or speak Japanese, but these games are usually more about the interactivity than the storylines ( As opposed to games like Clannad, YumeMiru Kusuri and countless others ), so there's basically very little to actually read and understand.
You certainly know a lot about those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
I'm curious to see if AG3 is better than Love Death 2, another 3D game that has a, you thought it, very cute Hatsune Miku Mod That one actually has a deeper story than AG2 and Sexy Beach 3, for example, but the gameplay is where the fun is at.



Pretty cute.
Her popularity reaches pretty far...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
And speaking of Crysis, it's undoubtedly the best FPS out there in my opinion. It's hard to explain why, but it's so realistic is hard to think you're playing a game. Seriously, you get so immersed in it that's not even funny.
From what I've seen in a video about the production of this game about a few months ago, it's something in regard of pushing hardware to limit and making it as realistic as possible. There was a scene showing how even minor details were taken care of.


PS: Back to my story about the computer. Since I order it on Moday morning (or rather, midnight), it'd probably come on Wednesday. Right now, the only thing left for me to do is find more about static electricity...... and study for my test.
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Old 2007-12-04, 01:08   Link #70
Zero Shinohara
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All I had gathered was that you made a pun out of Fraps Per Second. I couldn't find what Fap means.
Lol you got it, but it's actually frames per second. FRAPS is the name of a program that shows the FPS you're running at at a certain application, along with other goodies. Since we're talking a bit about Crysis, it also is included with the game.

And yes, every detail is taken care of in the Singleplayer, but the Multiplayer games lack quite a lot of that great gameplay you went through in SP. If you want destructible trees, you only get that on DX10-only servers, which IMO is utter BS, but let'em have their fun. If the game was as interactive as in SP mode, it would be SO Much more fun. I mean, seriously - you could grab a stick or something, place a mine on the road and cover it with some bushes and things like that. No one would be able to figure out where the mine was. Also wouldn't it be awesome to grab a couple of barrels and use'em as weapons with Strength Mode? That's what I think is lacking in the Crysis multiplayer.

The SP is godly, though. I don't have a single complaint about it, with the exception that some of the last levels didn't live up to the beginning of the game.

Quote:
Her popularity reaches pretty far...
You'd have no idea... 6 months after her debut, I have a pack with over 90 megs of pics of her. It's amazing really...

Quote:
PS: Back to my story about the computer. Since I order it on Moday morning (or rather, midnight), it'd probably come on Wednesday.
Did you use 2-day shipping on everything? If not, it'll depend quite a lot of where you're located. That's because if you're close to one of their warehouses, Cal and NH ( I believe ), you'll have a bigger chance of getting them earlier. If you don't, then I'd expect everything to be there by thursday, friday at most. Remember that a lot of these packages will come separate, so there's the chance that you might get a fraction of your components in one day and the other the day after. Luckly I got my case first, then the components and the Monitor came in the next day, when everything was already sorted out.

Hope you get'em by wednesday though. I bet the wait is killing you, but I know the feeling
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Old 2007-12-04, 01:10   Link #71
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Isn't there a translation patch for AG3?
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Old 2007-12-04, 01:12   Link #72
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild
Isn't there a translation patch for AG3?
There should be one coming out fairly soon, but if you're talking about the interface and loader, yeap, they released those already.

Wonder how long it'll take before a Miku Mod.
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Old 2007-12-04, 01:22   Link #73
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Get yourself the anti static strap, if anything just for peace of mind. Use it properly as shown here
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...HLgYXcBQ&prev=
and you'll be fine. Has to be reasonably tight and attached to a metal bit on the case. That's it .

Some other hints

1 when touching circuit boards handle by the edges but DO NOT (or at least avoid) touching any gold plated bits.
2 Do not wear wool
3 Do not take stuff out of the antistatic plastic bags until it is time to install them.

(NOte there is one way enough static can build up to the point of being lethal, it's commonly referred to as lightning)

You will need
1 small phillips (star shape) screwdriver
1 medium size phillips screw driver
about 12 small cable ties
needle nose pliers (makes it easier to pick up little screws)
side cutters (cut the cable ties)
A desktop light or flashlight

Spoiler:


Pesonally I'm not an early adopter of new tech, I alway go for the the best last generation. Better value and proven technology. (most benchmarks show the best dual core the e6750 barely losing to the newer quadcore q6600. Price difference? About $100USD. I have easily overclocked my x2 5000 to 3.4ghz which was even cheaper) Hence why I'm sticking to C2D and X2 processors and not recommending quads. Plus the best of the previous generation can still hang performance wise with early versions of new tech. Right now DDR3 is what 200-300 per gb of RAM? Forget that. Maybe at this point in time it offers 10% better performance than DDR2 800. Not worth it.

Crysis/Bioshock/Oblivion/Fear, these are games that can bring $2000 systems to their knees at high res with all the eyecandy on. So have reasonable expectations for you rig. If you want all that pretty imaging with HDR, Anti Aliasing, Antisopic Filtering, Soft Shadows etc etc be prepared to spend $. If you're willing to do without all the prettyness and playing at lower resolution current rig is fine.
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Old 2007-12-04, 01:28   Link #74
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Lol you got it, but it's actually frames per second. FRAPS is the name of a program that shows the FPS you're running at at a certain application, along with other goodies. Since we're talking a bit about Crysis, it also is included with the game.
I know FPS usually means Frame Per Second but I just learned that there's Frap Per Second, and I thought it was closer than Faps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
And yes, every detail is taken care of in the Singleplayer, but the Multiplayer games lack quite a lot of that great gameplay you went through in SP. If you want destructible trees, you only get that on DX10-only servers, which IMO is utter BS, but let'em have their fun. If the game was as interactive as in SP mode, it would be SO Much more fun. I mean, seriously - you could grab a stick or something, place a mine on the road and cover it with some bushes and things like that. No one would be able to figure out where the mine was. Also wouldn't it be awesome to grab a couple of barrels and use'em as weapons with Strength Mode? That's what I think is lacking in the Crysis multiplayer.

The SP is godly, though. I don't have a single complaint about it, with the exception that some of the last levels didn't liveservers, which IMO is utter BS, but let'em have their fun. If the game was as interactive as in SP mode, it would be SO Much more fun. I mean, seriously - you could grab a stick or something, place a min up to the beginning of the game.
Hehe, that sounds pretty interesting. From what I've heard, this is so far the only game that's worth considering DX10...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
You'd have no idea... 6 months after her debut, I have a pack with over 90 megs of pics of her. It's amazing really...
About a couple of months ago in Fan Creation section, I saw quite a few people, apparently converted to "Miku huggers", made sigs and avvies of her, and quite a number of people used them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Did you use 2-day shipping on everything? If not, it'll depend quite a lot of where you're located. That's because if you're close to one of their warehouses, Cal and NH ( I believe ), you'll have a bigger chance of getting them earlier. If you don't, then I'd expect everything to be there by thursday, friday at most. Remember that a lot of these packages will come separate, so there's the chance that you might get a fraction of your components in one day and the other the day after. Luckly I got my case first, then the components and the Monitor came in the next day, when everything was already sorted out.

Hope you get'em by wednesday though. I bet the wait is killing you, but I know the feeling
I chose the original shipping method, the 3-days option. And my place is pretty close to one of its warehouses. (or well, I think so, close to the state that taxes you) I live in VA and my stuff is sent from NJ, it's currently being transit to MD.

From the look of it, I'll get everything beside PSU at once, and then the PSU afterward. I probably won't start building it until at least Saturday, but it could go before that or after that.

On the other hand, I'm more worried about my household not being home when the order arrives. After all, my family rent and live in the basement, so when it comes to these shipments, it's pretty inconvenient. Maybe I could track to see when it'll come and wait in front of the door to accept the shipment, but I honestly have doubt the delivery man will let someone on the front door to do that.

And yes, the wait is killing me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
Get yourself the anti static strap, if anything just for peace of mind. Use it properly as shown here
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...HLgYXcBQ&prev=
and you'll be fine. Has to be reasonably tight and attached to a metal bit on the case. That's it .
Well, seeing a couple of people reaction regarding ant-static wrist strap, I didn't bother buying it. But if I'm not wrong, it's still pretty much the same and what it does it free your hand from actually touching the case yourself, right?



Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
Some other hints

1 when touching circuit boards handle by the edges but DO NOT (or at least avoid) touching any gold plated bits.
2 Do not wear wool
3 Do not take stuff out of the antistatic plastic bags until it is time to install them.
1) Is the gold plated bits the ones on the right of the motherboard in this picture? If it's okay, may you explain why as well.
2) Is cotton alright?
3) Okay

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
(NOte there is one way enough static can build up to the point of being lethal, it's commonly referred to as lightning)
That sounds pretty interesting. What is it like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
You will need
1 small phillips (star shape) screwdriver
1 medium size phillips screw driver
about 12 small cable ties
needle nose pliers (makes it easier to pick up little screws)
side cutters (cut the cable ties)
A desktop light or flashlight
I also bought the computer tool kit along with the rest of the stuffs. It should have most of the things you mention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
Spoiler:
Well, for the static electricity thing, it's more about me not quite understand it. My questions so far are:
1) Should the PSU be plugged into the power socket? Most say yes, but I've read for ATX, it's dangerous. Read here.
2) I'm advised to touch the case's metal part, but I'm still wondering if the PSU has to touch the case as well. I think it's reasonable that it should. And if this is true, I can conclude that I should install the PSU first to the case.

Overall, the only parts I find hard (or rather, look hard) are installing RAM, CPU, and Video Card mainly because of static electricity (which can be easily solved once I have a clearer understanding of it) and installing the HSF. Otherwise, the rests seem to be pretty easy.
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Old 2007-12-04, 02:23   Link #75
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
What if you are flying? Or would the excess electricity reacts to air as well?
If you're flying on an airplane, then you'd probably discharge onto the seat or onto the person next to you. Now, given that zero_shinohara so boldly started talking about HGames in this thread, that statement sounds incredibly wrong but that's how it goes And props to you, zero_shinohara - I've never seen anyone so proudly proclaim that they're venturing off to an HGame, and one where storyline is essentially nonexistent, even!

But back to the electricity question, let's say that you're completely alone in the air. What then? Well, think about lightning. Lightning is generated when there's a high enough negative charge that it bursts to the ground (or other positively charged objects). Did you ever wonder why lightning goes from the sky to the ground and not the other way around? That's the general principle. The greater your level of charge, the greater the distance that you'd be able to discharge from.

Quote:
Anyway, if "ground" is what can infinitely accept charge... then in the example of plugging PSU into power socket, and while letting PSU in contact with the computer case, touch the case, what would be the "ground"? The PSU? The case? Or both (since they have direct contact to each other)?
There's something to take note of here. Simply plugging something into a socket doesn't ground it - it requires a third prong. Here's an example of a typical American electrical outlet:

Notice how there are two thin slits and then, near the bottom center, a larger round hole? The two thin slits provide the electricity - the large round hole is the "ground." Some electrical plugs only have the two thin slits and do not plug into the ground. For those components, plugging them into the wall does not ground them. That's important to make note of, and if there are any PSUs like that, those may be what people are referring to when they say to leave it unplugged. However, I've never seen a PSU like that, only laptop PSUs.

In this case, the reason that the ground is considered infinite is because that's wired to the rest of your house. I don't know how houses are wired, so I'm not sure if it leads back to the electrical grid, or if it somehow does dump into the real ground. Suffice it to say, you can't overload the ground without requiring enough energy to blow your circuit breaker.

If you've plugged your power supply in and it's grounded, the only final consideration is to make sure that your power supply is off. As far as I've seen, they all come with power switches - just shut it off. This means that the PSU is no longer supplying electricity to the components, but since it's still connected and it's also connected to the ground, it can still pass on excess energy buildup to the ground, thereby preventing static buildup. Pretty neat, isn't it? And since your PSU is connected to your case (assuming your case is metallic), simply touching the metal parts of the case will also ground you. Touching metallic tools to the case will ground the tools. It's as simple as that, and that's why I never saw the point in investing in a wrist strap.

You should know if you live in a high-static environment because you'd be zapped quite often whenever touching other people or metallic objects, and it does hurt a fair bit. I wouldn't worry too much about what clothing you're wearing. You'd know that it's potentially bad if the clothing "clings" to you - it'd be clinging to you due to electronic attraction, which could indicate energy buildup in the clothing itself.

If you routinely ground yourself and the tools you work with (in general, I re-ground a tool any time I pick it up) you really have nothing to worry about. Computer components are relatively delicate, so the first time you work with them you treat it as if you were performing heart surgery. Eventually you realize that they're physically rather resilient and that static isn't too huge a concern if you follow good protocol. Just have fun
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Old 2007-12-04, 02:39   Link #76
teachopvutru
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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After a more in-depth introduction of the magical circle savior, it's starting to make sense. Plus, it gives me insight as to what that circle thing about. I believe they'd have more purpose than for grounding though, right? I can't quite imagine everything with the 3-prong plug is designed for the purpose of grounding. Maybe they are there to provide safety? (okay, not sure why I say that)

I don't get zap lately, so whew.

Anyway, this is the case I bought. Under spec, it say the case is made out of "0.8mm SECC cold rolled steel," and ignoring most of the adjective there that I know nothing about, it does look like the case is made out of metal. I just hope it leaves an unpainted surface, though.

However, I'm quite curious, really... What if the case isn't made out of metal? What other alternatives would be available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
If you're flying on an airplane, then you'd probably discharge onto the seat or onto the person next to you. Now, given that zero_shinohara so boldly started talking about HGames in this thread, that statement sounds incredibly wrong but that's how it goes And props to you, zero_shinohara - I've never seen anyone so proudly proclaim that they're venturing off to an HGame, and one where storyline is essentially nonexistent, even!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
But back to the electricity question, let's say that you're completely alone in the air. What then? Well, think about lightning. Lightning is generated when there's a high enough negative charge that it bursts to the ground (or other positively charged objects). Did you ever wonder why lightning goes from the sky to the ground and not the other way around? That's the general principle. The greater your level of charge, the greater the distance that you'd be able to discharge from.
Would there be reverse lightning if the ground actually generate electron?


PS: In any case, I think currently I've collected every information that I need. I myself find it enjoyable so far. (but you guys did even more work than me. >.<) Thank you very much, though.
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Old 2007-12-04, 03:11   Link #77
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
After a more in-depth introduction of the magical circle savior, it's starting to make sense. Plus, it gives me insight as to what that circle thing about. I believe they'd have more purpose than for grounding though, right? I can't quite imagine everything with the 3-prong plug is designed for the purpose of grounding. Maybe they are there to provide safety? (okay, not sure why I say that)
That third prong is purely a ground. I don't recommend trying this out, but you should be able to stick something into there and not worry about getting electrocuted. It doesn't provide electricity.

Quote:
However, I'm quite curious, really... What if the case isn't made out of metal? What other alternatives would be available?
Actually, there aren't any, really. I have never seen a 100% plastic case - even the cheapest of cases have metal in them somewhere, even if it isn't very strong metal (flimsy). The only reason I keep driving the idea of metal in the case as being important is because if you just touch the plastic covering of a case, you may not sufficiently be grounding yourself.

Quote:
Would there be reverse lightning if the ground actually generate electron?
Well, probably not - more likely you'd see trees and houses randomly getting zapped. There are plenty of objects that could be discharged onto before the sky. But in reality and in physics theory, the ground doesn't generate negative charge.

I saw a really neat picture that explained the concept fairly well when I was in elementary school. I couldn't find it exactly, but here's a similar one that helps to illustrate the concept:


When you get a sufficient buildup of negative charge in the cloud, it reaches to the ground in what we see as lightning. This release of negative charge helps to bring the system to greater equilibrium. Notice that the negative charge doesn't go to the tree or the ground - it's dissipated by the ground. And that's what the ground theory is all about!

Here's a bit of a more complicated explanation:


Applying all of this to working with electrical components, static would occur if your hand were that highly charged cloud, and you discharged onto the component. A static shock is basically a miniature lightning bolt. You want to equilibrate and/or discharge to a ground source so as not to damage the components.

But as I said above, it's rather easy to do, and it should only be a concern if you're in a very dry area and you're working in an area with a lot of friction.
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Old 2007-12-04, 03:23   Link #78
teachopvutru
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The second example is pretty complicate so I'll stick with the first place. As for cases material, I've heard that some people build the case themselves... that's where I was coming from. The information isn't relevant to me, though, I guess. Actually, it may come in handy...

So if the 3rd pong is purely the ground, I can get some kind of metal myself, maybe a thin but long piece of copper, stick it in there and tie the other end to my leg or my wrist, and I'd make a homemade "wrist strap"? XD If that actually works (no idea if it does), why isn't there a wrist strap that can plug into that circle hole, btw?

PS: Found some likely candidates for FAP!

Fashion Attarctiveness Preferences
In some role-playing games, "Fleetness, Aegis, Puissance"

And last but not least:
As a word:
* Male (though less often female) masturbation (noun, verb, and onomatopoeia)
* Used to refer to something sexual.

And to quote Zero Shinohara " You better... not know....", it's likely the last two.
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Old 2007-12-04, 03:23   Link #79
hobbes_fan
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see here bottom part
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowIm...-OC+Video+Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowIm...Desktop+Memory

You know why these are gold plated? Gold plating increases conductivity. If you discharge static while touching these the odds incease for damage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conductivity
Handling by the PCB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_circuit_board (the stiff cardboard like stuff where all the microchips are sitting on) is fine as it's by in large inert, a poor conductor of electricity. The little pathways are made of a metal based material (usually copper foil) to carry the electrical signals/current. avoid touching these as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PCB_Spectrum.jpg

Those tall things sticking out of the motherboard (they're actually copper BTW) are heatsinks. Copper is very good at getting rid of heat. Don't get too rough with those either. Underneath those are microprocessors, so I'd avoid picking the motherboard up by those.

Simply put, touch metal bit = bad idea

Non metal case
http://www.spotswoodcustomcomputers.com/

I have a spare bass drum might try it one day

Note: ATX is a size standard. Principles of electrical conductivity remain true no matter waht size standard you use whether it be ITX, BTX, MATX, uatx, XXX etc etc. But no I never plug it in. I'm confident that in my electronics knowledge and practices that I have grounded myself. I refuse to do any work with the potential to have current from mains. It's dangerous to have to work in such a cramped environment with a live device. One slip of a screwdriver into the guts of a psu is great way to kill yourself. Lose a little screw in the PSU, game over. I avoid touching electronics when they even have a potential to contain live current. Parts I can replace, my life not so easy. Plus from a praticality standpoint, it's easier to mount the PSU after the motherboard in most cases, it's a little less cramped and a bit easier to work.

Yes it's true that modern PSU's still retain charge in its capacitors, sometime lethal amounts. But that's why you don;t open the PSU up. The risk is much much lower. Also we're talking about a band new PSU. There's next no chance that there will be any sort of current stored.
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MP4 - http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=47693
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http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26308

Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2007-12-04 at 04:05.
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Old 2007-12-04, 03:40   Link #80
teachopvutru
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
see here bottom part
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowIm...-OC+Video+Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowIm...Desktop+Memory

You know why these are gold plated? Gold plating increases conductivity. If you discharge static while touching these the odds incease for damage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conductivity
Handling by the PCB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_circuit_board (the stiff cardboard like stuff where all the microchips are sitting on) is fine as it's by in large inert, a poor conductor of electricity. The little pathways are made of a metal based material (usually copper foil) to carry the electrical signals/current. avoid touching these as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PCB_Spectrum.jpg

Those tall things sticking out of the motherboard (they're actually copper BTW) are heatsinks. Copper is very good at getting rid of heat. Don't get too rough with those either. Underneath those are microprocessors, so I'd avoid picking the motherboard up by those.

Simply put, touch metal bit = bad idea
Studying for test right now so I only skimp through the links you posted. I wonder why a wikipedia entry regarding electrical conductivity doesn't include gold there and put silver as most conductive.

I'm planning my process of building to be like this:
-Install PSU to the case and ready for anti-static mission.
-Press cover plate from motherboard to the case
-Take out motherboard, put it on anti-static bag.
-Install CPU, RAM.
-Apply thermal paste. Install Heatsink, fan.
-Handle motherboard by Heatsink/fan, screw it into case (although screwing the thingys that stand the motherboard should come first).
-Will be continue... Check out the next episode at blah blah blah P.M. and blah blah blah date. (Actually, haven't really think of what to do afterward)
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