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Old 2007-12-05, 18:16   Link #1001
guuchan
Mou Nakanai~
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
On top of that, the words to Kei's running ED were actually written by her seiyuu, Okada Junko. I don't have a translation of those words, but anyway here they are in Japanese. To the extent I understand them, they seem to fit, too: hiding one's feelings, pain, a new dream.
If you combine the lyrics from Conclave-Mendoi's subs (e.g. episode 5 + episode 9), you will already get the translation of 80% of the whole song. Only 2 particles are wrong in the kanji/romaji of first verse of the lyrics since I got it by ear, and they don't affect the translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I could write a scathing retort to some of the posts in the past couple pages of this thread, but it seems anti-Kei is everybody's sentiment so I'm not going to bother.
I'm not either, but maybe I'm a little biased because I enjoyed her chapter in the game.
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Old 2007-12-05, 18:21   Link #1002
Shiroth
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For anyone who didn't notice, this weeks ED was drawn by Ume Aoki, the wonderful woman behind Hidamari Sketch. I really like the Alice in Wonderland approach for Chihiro.
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Old 2007-12-05, 18:53   Link #1003
Traece
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I don't necessarily hate Kei, I'm sure she'll get her own loving in the future. Even so, Kei got what she deserved as a result of trying to control someone's life, which will backfire often. It's nice to see Miyako got what she wanted though, out of all the characters her and MangaMan(As I call him, out of appreciation) are my favorites. In addition, Kei and him just don't seem to look very appropriate in terms of physical appearance, it just doesn't have that feeling that good relationships have(obviously looking fitting for eachother isn't a huge deal, nor is it necessary, but generally when I see a couple they really compliment eachother in an unexplainable way, even ugly with sexy). As far as Renji goes... He scares me much more than Chihiro ever could(Psh.. nutter).
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Old 2007-12-05, 19:27   Link #1004
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
Yep, most of minori's lyrics seem to fit the original works and characters very well. Even with the anime, they've monopolized this process by having their key planners (along with Okada, who's actually married to Nobukazu Sakai) write lyrics.
Oh, man, do you have any idea how much I love knowing that? Thanks very much. I'd cookie you if I could. Of course, I didn't know who he was until I looked him up: chief planner for minori, and did the lyrics for the OP. This is one more case where "pillow business" (in a sense) produces a good result. Of all the voices, I think I like Kei's (Okada Junko's) best. It has a certain kind of almost boyish freshness to it. Note: Looking up her agency, I find it's Genki Project, who are now also agents for the mythical (but role-free) Ochiai Yuriko.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth
For anyone who didn't notice, this weeks ED was drawn by Ume Aoki, the wonderful woman behind Hidamari Sketch. I really like the Alice in Wonderland approach for Chihiro.
I feel like we're in the big leagues here -- of anime and of animephilia. Thanks for pointing that out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan
If you combine the lyrics from Conclave-Mendoi's subs (e.g. episode 5 + episode 9), you will already get the translation of 80% of the whole song. Only 2 particles are wrong in the kanji/romaji of first verse of the lyrics since I got it by ear, and they don't affect the translation.
And now I know we're in the big leagues. Sometimes I just don't pay enough attention: like to the fact that it's you who is giving us these good, fast subs. Thank you so much.
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Old 2007-12-05, 19:29   Link #1005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I could write a scathing retort to some of the posts in the past couple pages of this thread, but it seems anti-Kei is everybody's sentiment so I'm not going to bother. I'm just a bit astonished, really. Or maybe not.
You take defending the "balanced approach" way too seriously, even for me. Most people aren't "anti-Kei" in general, but maybe "anti-Kei X Hiro" simply due to her actions. And we've already established that it's not worth writing "scathing retorts" to people who only consider one part or another of the show "worth watching" -- you'll never convince them. So, ease up! At least, that's my advice...
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Old 2007-12-05, 19:58   Link #1006
Eviltape
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I just watched the first episode; wow, this is some really artistic stuff. I was surprised at the hair colors (purple this time?). Looks like I have lots to trudge through until I catch up with you people.

This was also the first OP which I watched that was purely instrumental. It really calms one down when you listen to it; gotta get it soon.
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Old 2007-12-05, 20:50   Link #1007
Liingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
sat down to watch episode 9...

I could write a scathing retort to some of the posts in the past couple pages of this thread, but it seems anti-Kei is everybody's sentiment so I'm not going to bother. I'm just a bit astonished, really. Or maybe not.
I can't say that it's purely anti-Kei. More that we expected things to turn out like this ever since the end of episode 7. I still like Kei as a character, just that I didn't expect her to end up with Hiro in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
If you combine the lyrics from Conclave-Mendoi's subs (e.g. episode 5 + episode 9), you will already get the translation of 80% of the whole song. Only 2 particles are wrong in the kanji/romaji of first verse of the lyrics since I got it by ear, and they don't affect the translation.
Ohh, I didn't notice that. I'll have to go back and listen to it. I just thought that they reused the same lyrics as the first time it was used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
For anyone who didn't notice, this weeks ED was drawn by Ume Aoki, the wonderful woman behind Hidamari Sketch. I really like the Alice in Wonderland approach for Chihiro.
Nice information here. That I didn't know. Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviltape View Post
I just watched the first episode; wow, this is some really artistic stuff. I was surprised at the hair colors (purple this time?). Looks like I have lots to trudge through until I catch up with you people.

This was also the first OP which I watched that was purely instrumental. It really calms one down when you listen to it; gotta get it soon.
Glad you liked it! Enjoy the ride

It's a nice piece. Be happy that it's Tenmon who's behind the music. Hopefully that piece will be on the OST since it's not the true opening.
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Old 2007-12-05, 23:24   Link #1008
Ascaloth
I don't give a damn, dude
 
 
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Image request:

I'd like to have an avvie-sized animated gif for each of the characters that have appeared in ef thus far, please. Any scene from any episode would do.
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Old 2007-12-05, 23:53   Link #1009
guuchan
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The ED has changed numerous times throughout the series to match the episodes, whether it's a completely different song or same song with a different verse of lyrics (so yeah, our karaoke'r has been busy ). If you're one of those who skips OP/ED after the first episode, you should really go back to watch all the EDs.

-List of EDs so far-
Episode 1: ED1 "I'm here", first verse
Episode 2: OP "euphoric field"
Episode 3: ED1 "I'm here", second verse
Episode 4: ED2 "Kizamu Kisetsu", first verse
Episode 5: ED2 "Kizamu Kisetsu", first verse
Episode 6: ED3 "Sora no Yume", first verse(?)
Episode 7: ED1 "I'm here", first verse (but with different animation from ep1's)
Episode 8: ED3 "Sora no Yume", first verse(?)
Episode 9: ED2 "Kizamu Kisetsu", second verse

ED1 = performed by Miyako's seiyuu
ED2 = performed by Kei's seiyuu
ED3 = performed by Chihiro's seiyuu
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Old 2007-12-06, 00:49   Link #1010
grey_moon
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Grumble grumble, I hate it when I miss the meat of the discussion

Oh well, I did really enjoy the episode, but the change in pace did stick out like a sore thumb for me. I'm thinking that they are just doing the calm before the storm.

I chortled when Miyako bagged Hiro, especially when I think that if Kei hadn't deleted the messages, who knows what would have happened. Miyako showed surprising insight in letting the whole matter drop as did Hiro in regards to his what to do with the future form.

Kyousuke is the big surprise for me as my initial impressions was he was just out to get a shag, but out of all the characters he seems to be the one without a elephant load of baggage. Not too sure how he is going to deal with the situation, as he was trying not to get involved with the wild beasts that he is filming.

Renji you little fool! Stop over analysing the situation and leave that to us! Just take Chihiro's feelings at face value and be grateful for what you have.

That diary seems rather dangerous, I think that Kyou has been using the wrong type of books to chuck at Tomoya.

Can't say much about Chihiro apart from she went negative really quickly, but I guess having the memories of a 12 yr old running to the beach and suddenly finding your self an old hag and missing an eye is a bit of a shock. Really good eye catch at the end, as Chihiro waking up is like Alice returning from Wonderland.

I was really glad that Renji didn't run away, but I am gain on the edge of my seat in regards to how he is going to deal with it.

Now onto the hot topic... Yu!!!!!!
Right right now let me see if I got this straight. He let Renji fumble into this relationship with Chihiro because Renji reminded him of himself and he wanted to see if Renji could achieve what he couldn't. If that is the case that slap was jealousy driven and no doubt about it. Actually what is this I'll give you a hint stuff all about? Geeeezzz share some of your experiences so others don't need to fail the same way as you did. I think I need to know a little more about Yu before I permanently condemn him to my number one a hole bin, but he isn't doing anything to help.
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Last edited by grey_moon; 2007-12-06 at 01:07. Reason: Just making my post a little clearer
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Old 2007-12-06, 01:01   Link #1011
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I could write a scathing retort to some of the posts in the past couple pages of this thread, but it seems anti-Kei is everybody's sentiment so I'm not going to bother. I'm just a bit astonished, really. Or maybe not.
I'm not anti-Kei either. Or anti-anyone, really. At least not to the extent of the "anti-Kei" people who laugh at her misery...
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Old 2007-12-06, 01:05   Link #1012
grey_moon
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@Sol Falling - Write it!!! Its no fun if everyone follows the crowd
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Old 2007-12-06, 01:08   Link #1013
FlareKnight
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I'm sure Renji would appreciate the concern we have for his love life . He's definitely in a complicated and emotionally heavy situation right now. I'm equally worried about him avoiding a complete breakdown and how the situation with Chihiro will eventually be resolved. But he'll just have to keep picking himself up for now.

Certainly interesting how things work out. Hard to predict what would have happened if Hiro had actually heard the messages. Miyako certainly wasn't one to bring it up or ask anything about it so for now it sits. Curious how the future will proceed for the two of them. Now that Miyako has a place in someone's heart what will she do now? Plus you have Hiro and considering his wrist is hurting at that age his future is up there too.

Wouldn't label myself anti-Kei or anything. Haven't approved of some of her actions but that doesn't mean I'm out for her misery. While I don't think her future is with Hiro I do hope she ends up alright.
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Old 2007-12-06, 01:13   Link #1014
grey_moon
Yummy, sweet and unyuu!!!
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I'm sure Renji would appreciate the concern we have for his love life . He's definitely in a complicated and emotionally heavy situation right now. I'm equally worried about him avoiding a complete breakdown and how the situation with Chihiro will eventually be resolved. But he'll just have to keep picking himself up for now.
Something popped into my head whilst reading your post. Chihiro who has spent time with Yu ended up very negative with life and it seems to me to stem from Yu's grey life philosophy. Renji has had a few encounters with Yu and is seemingly in the middle of a breakdown and that also seems to stem from Yu's if you don't encounter happiness you can't be sad thing too

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Certainly interesting how things work out. Hard to predict what would have happened if Hiro had actually heard the messages. Miyako certainly wasn't one to bring it up or ask anything about it so for now it sits. Curious how the future will proceed for the two of them. Now that Miyako has a place in someone's heart what will she do now? Plus you have Hiro and considering his wrist is hurting at that age his future is up there too.
I actually think that Miyako is setting herself up with the only look at me promise. I think Hiro will go to Kei if he thinks that she needs him (in a brotherly way ofc) and that will cause Miyako to go into meltdown mode.
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Old 2007-12-06, 02:35   Link #1015
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
I chortled when Miyako bagged Hiro, especially when I think that if Kei hadn't deleted the messages, who knows what would have happened. Miyako showed surprising insight in letting the whole matter drop as did Hiro in regards to his what to do with the future form.
You are making it sound as if Miyako is somehow scheming how to use the messages to her advantage or something, which i can't help but consider plain wrong. (She isn't the one who thinks how to turn the situation to her advantage here). If there is a reason she doesn't mention it is plain and simple - she doesn't want to bother Hiro any more than needed. Even at the phone booth she puts on a genki act simply not to burden him with her problems. I don't think it has anything to do with insight. There is a lot of truth in her words that she is happy that he is here now.
(Not that i think anything would have changed even with the messages ...aside from Hiro feeling more guilty over the whole situation)
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Old 2007-12-06, 03:14   Link #1016
grey_moon
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
You are making it sound as if Miyako is somehow scheming how to use the messages to her advantage or something, which i can't help but consider plain wrong. (She isn't the one who thinks how to turn the situation to her advantage here). If there is a reason she doesn't mention it is plain and simple - she doesn't want to bother Hiro any more than needed. Even at the phone booth she puts on a genki act simply not to burden him with her problems. I don't think it has anything to do with insight. There is a lot of truth in her words that she is happy that he is here now.
(Not that i think anything would have changed even with the messages ...aside from Hiro feeling more guilty over the whole situation)
Oh I don't mean it in that way at all. I didn't think that any of Miyako's current actions were scheming. My thoughts were on the line of if she did raise the issue of why he didn't call back then it could have spiralled into Hiro finding out from her about her little episode. Personally I think she didn't raise it because she wanted to put it behind her.
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Old 2007-12-06, 03:22   Link #1017
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
My thoughts were on the line of if she did raise the issue of why he didn't call back then it could have spiralled into Hiro finding out from her about her little episode. Personally I think she didn't raise it because she wanted to put it behind her.
Well, his worry for her shows that she had jumped to the wrong conclusion. That he didn't answer or return her call was never the real issue; the real issue is that she thought she was disappearing from his heart. Since that's obviously not the case, the fact he didn't call her back is a total non-issue now. You can almost imagine that someday, a few months/years down the road, she might ask "So where were you that day, anyway?" and they can look back on the whole thing and sigh/laugh/smile. In other words, she didn't bring it up not because she's trying to avoid it, but because it doesn't matter anymore.
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Old 2007-12-06, 03:26   Link #1018
Sol Falling
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hahaha man, you guys. I said I wasn't going to smite you and you run around getting all defensive and stuff. I understand perfectly your positions that Kei was wrong and needed to be punished, but you still wish her a happy future. Don't worry, I'm not mistaking you for hating Kei--what you're defensively painting yourself as is exactly what I find ridiculous.

I'll indulge myself and grey_moon there and point out the contradiction, but I'll leave it at this post, 'cause I doubt I'll convince anybody anyway.

All you guys saying "what goes around comes around", "karma", "backfire", "she deserves it" etc. The framing of Hiro's, Miyako's, Kei's characters exclusively on their romantic interactions with each other. All of you MiyaHiro fanboys (girls too? Iunno) out there hate Kei because she prevented them from meeting when Miyako was in her hour of greatest need. You feel triumphant as it seems to you Miyako and Hiro overcome all these obstacles to finally get together and firmly lay a hand across Kei's treacherous face. What you don't realize is that Miyako and Hiro got together because of, not in spite of, Kei's actions.

So what you are saying by calling on karma etc. is that what Kei should have done, was leave the cell phone alone. Then the universe would bless her because Hiro would therefore be disgusted by Miyako's clingy brokenness and smother himself in Kei's lesser bosum. And Miyako would be left a joyless shell, punished for wanting too much. It seems to me you're too stupid to see you're hating Kei at the expense of Miyako's happiness.

'cause I mean really, what else could be meant by 'justice is served'? By laying out judgement with an iron hammer, proclaiming that Kei deserves to lose Hiro because of those two of her transgressions, you are also declaring that she would deserve him and Miyako should lose him if they (Kei's transgressions) did not exist.

Seems to me those MiyaHiro fanpersons love nobody so much as their own blind justice. Kei's scream at the end of episode 9 should have resonated with your own pain (or whatever), not sparked an 'ha! In your face, bitch!' reaction.

edit: this post is a bit out of place following the couple previous posts, so I'll join that discussion as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall
(Not that i think anything would have changed even with the messages ...aside from Hiro feeling more guilty over the whole situation)
Guilt's not a great reason to fall in love, is it? Miyako needs to present herself as somebody who can take care of herself. Hiro's focus, and one of Miyako's reasons for respecting Hiro, is his career as a mangaka. He can't exactly work on that if he has to spend all his time "looking only at Miyako". I agree with grey_moon that Miyako was setting herself up with that promise, on even more levels than simply the Kei x Hiro sibling relationship. I'm gonna have to wait to see how their relationship develops before I can really believe a 'happily ever after'. As Miyako bringing the issue up again (after the sex, no less) shows, it actually still does 'matter'.

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2007-12-06 at 03:44.
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Old 2007-12-06, 03:37   Link #1019
Kaoru Chujo
Kuno Misaki
 
 
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Personally, I think that it wouldn't have mattered what happened, Hiro and Miyako just fit, right at the moment: she gives him lightness and joy, and he fills her need to be wanted. If he had heard the messages, he would have rushed to her even faster.

But that "never look at another woman" is a flag for troubles if I ever heard one. I just hope there are too few episodes left to get into that, lol.
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characters/seiyuus: Sailor Moon Crystal | Akatsuki no Yona | Amagi Brilliant Park | Coffin-Princess Chaika | Cross Ange | Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai | Danna ga Nani ga Itteru | Denkigai no Honya-san | Donten ni Warau | Fate/Stay Night UBW | Le Fruit de la Grisaia | Gugure! Kokkuri-san | Inou Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de | Madan no Ou to Vanadis | Orenchi no Furo Jijou | Seven Deadly Sins | Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso | Shirobako | Sora no Method | Tribe Cool Crew | Trinity Seven | Ushinawareta Mirai o Motomete | Wixoss
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Old 2007-12-06, 04:21   Link #1020
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Personally, I think that it wouldn't have mattered what happened, Hiro and Miyako just fit, right at the moment: she gives him lightness and joy, and he fills her need to be wanted. If he had heard the messages, he would have rushed to her even faster.
Agreed. That would have been my guess as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
What you don't realize is that Miyako and Hiro got together because of, not in spite of, Kei's actions. [...] So what you are saying by calling on karma etc. is that what Kei should have done, was leave the cell phone alone. Then the universe would bless her because Hiro would therefore be disgusted by Miyako's clingy brokenness and smother himself in Kei's lesser bosum. [...] It seems to me you're too stupid to see you're hating Kei at the expense of Miyako's happiness.
To whom are you speaking, specifically?

I thought the premise of your argumentation previously was that one shouldn't choose one heroine's point of view to idolize over the other (hence your "righteous indignation" at the HiroXMiyako 'shippers). In fact, though, you're demonstrating a no-less-obvious inability to balance the two points of view, because you insist that Kei is equally worthy of both praise and sympathy in spite of it all, and that Miyako's actions are equally worth of both fear and loathing. This in spite of the fact that the show itself is not presenting them equally in every context (perhaps you're arguing that the show itself is biased?). In other words, I no longer believe that you're as much in favour of a balanced perspective on the story the writers intend as you once claimed. You're preaching a doctrine that is no more balanced and true to the show than any 'shipper's point of view. And you have the arrogance to tell everyone why they're wrong and you're right.

And, to my original question, you're once again painting everyone who disagrees with you as being biased, close-minded and ignorant, where I see very little posting in this thread to warrant it. Not to mention that you're telling them why they feel the way they do ("[You] hate Kei because she prevented them from meeting when Miyako was in her hour of greatest need"), only to just as quickly strike down that very perspective ("It seems to me you're too stupid to see you're hating Kei at the expense of Miyako's happiness.") Isn't that what a straw man argument is all about? With arguments like this, no wonder you doubt that you'll convince anyone.

I get that you're pissed that people are gloating at Kei's "demise" but, frankly, you're acting like a sore loser, whether you mean to or not. And when you aim your posts at a large, vaguely-defined group, people who might otherwise agree with you (at least in part) will get annoyed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Guilt's not a great reason to fall in love, is it? Miyako needs to present herself as somebody who can take care of herself. Hiro's focus, and one of Miyako's reasons for respecting Hiro, is his career as a mangaka. He can't exactly work on that if he has to spend all his time "looking only at Miyako". I agree with grey_moon that Miyako was setting herself up with that promise, on even more levels than simply the Kei x Hiro sibling relationship. I'm gonna have to wait to see how their relationship develops before I can really believe a 'happily ever after'.
Personally, I think you're reading a little bit much into the line. In the context of the rest of the story, the meaning probably drives more towards "I don't ever want to disappear from your heart", i.e. "Don't leave me", i.e. "we'll be together forever". I think it's more like excessive romanticism (on the heels of their confession and first night together) than some sort of a sinister controlling ploy ("you'll see me and only me, forever and ever..."). Again, this seems like an unnecessarily excessive attempt to paint all characters as equally virtuous/villanous, more than the show itself accounts for or allows. But, of course, I may be completely wrong; time will tell...
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