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Old 2007-12-03, 05:41   Link #2001
gaguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerII
But I thought the ones with the 'hands' were all killed or hiding(Nana). Aren't the others just humans with horns? If that is the case, then they can only fight as a human, and can die just as easily.

And if they do have more with 'hands', I would be hard pressed to believe one could survive a tank shell or aviation bomb/missle. While he does run a rich company with many weapons, when the world's militaries finally got involved, they would ultimately be stopped.

Also, not all the Diclonius are cold blooded killers(Nana).


So looking at it from a tactical view, I don't think the Diclonius could take the world. From what is shown, Humans out number them, plus have the ultimate technology if need be. No matter how many 'hands' you have, you are not going to stop a thermonuclear weapon(Though that would be a last resort).
*sigh* Looking at anything in Elfen Lied from a tactical point of view, lot of things doesn't make sense, let alone my theory, and I don't really want to discuss how the directors would research diclonius to be stronger, or how the UN and the governments around the world would devise strategic plans against this. But at least it's something I think is plausible, and not downright impossible. I mean, I could come up with arguments like, diclonius starting to blend into the society more efficiently, and slowly starting to produce even more diclonius by implanting their seeds into men's brains (like we've seen). And then you can come up with equally pointless argument of the government developing new ways of detecting diclonius and killing them all off before they spread more into the human race. It's an endless and pointless cycle of speculations. That is something we wish to avoid in an anime which has very little to do with realism. Just remember that Lucy could have been easily taken down way beforehand, if we're considering realistic circumstances like you have.

Besides, I don't mean that the diclonius will necessarily win in the battle between humans. I'm just saying, that's what the diclonius intends to do, or at least that's what I'm trying to say.

And it doesn't matter if all the diclonius with vectors are killed off or hiding, since I'm basically saying that they've produced more to get rid of all humans. And if I remember correctly, the director himself is diclonius (and so was his brother). Just because they don't have vectors like their female counterpart, does that make them humans? I'd be much more inclined to believe that they're male diclonius without vectors rather than them being normal humans with erm, pointy thing coming out of their heads.

And Nana still have cold blooded killer instinct inside her, like all diclonius. The research, well at least according to them, they start showing killer nature at a young age by instinctively killing people at the smallest threats and sometimes for just fun. For this diclonius race and men to exist, they need love and acceptance like the relationship between Kouta and Lucy has shown, but there simply is too much discrimination as we've all clearly seen. Nana was able to repress her killer side simply through the love and understanding given by the man with glasses, and Kouta and co.
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Old 2007-12-03, 09:00   Link #2002
TigerII
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The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.

Last edited by TigerII; 2007-12-03 at 09:11.
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Old 2007-12-03, 11:07   Link #2003
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
Spoiler for Door:
That arc in the anime was very different from the manga and the last anime scene never happened in the manga. Nyu, minus horns, returned right after her fight with Mariko. And Kouta didn't see the fights or get his memory back.
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Old 2007-12-03, 11:27   Link #2004
Yorae_paladin1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.
Spoiler:
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"I do not hate you. I do not think your a monster just another species trying to live like us humans. If there is a monster in this world its nature itself for wanting and allowing spectacles of death and destruction."

Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising

Last edited by Yorae_paladin1; 2007-12-03 at 11:44.
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Old 2007-12-03, 11:46   Link #2005
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
The way your first one was said made it sound as if it would be a hostile take over. I was responding to that. Of course the more plausible method would be slow integration. But in that sense, you couldn't really call humanity dead. Also, I thought it was said earlier that they were mutated humans, not their own species? Or rather, more evolved humans. Since the method you said still required them to implant humans, that would be more of a rapid evolution of humans than a complete destruction fo them. But both are bad in the big pictures, but this version isn't nearly as bad as diclonius taking to the streets in force, lol.

Slow integration would probably actually work, or at least you do this long enough until you have a big enough force to start a hostile take over, by that point, it is far too late. But this method would take time, and the old man looked like he didn't want to wait.

Also, another thing I wonder. Say the diclonius do take Earth from humans and all humans are either dead or those surviving are hiding, what then? Since all the diclonius have that killer instinct, would they just start to kill each other? Or would they over come it then I wonder.
Spoiler for manga:
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Old 2007-12-06, 18:31   Link #2006
Arthas1011
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Interesting spoiler PastPrime. Which manga chapter is it in?
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Old 2007-12-06, 22:25   Link #2007
foreverdissevered
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urm... Drop this already lol... Lucy dead or alive idc. If you cant convince them, dont bother trying. Everyone has their own sense of logic, who is to say one way is better than the other?
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Old 2007-12-07, 12:14   Link #2008
PastPrime
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Originally Posted by Arthas1011 View Post
Interesting spoiler PastPrime. Which manga chapter is it in?
Spoiler for manga:
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Last edited by PastPrime; 2007-12-10 at 10:50.
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Old 2007-12-07, 12:36   Link #2009
TigerII
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Originally Posted by foreverdissevered View Post
urm... Drop this already lol... Lucy dead or alive idc. If you cant convince them, dont bother trying. Everyone has their own sense of logic, who is to say one way is better than the other?
I don't think there really is a definate answer, it is up to the viewer on this one. But yeah I agree, it is bad to get hostile on each other over if she is dead or not.
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Old 2007-12-08, 18:24   Link #2010
davidvoyage
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Here is what I know now after reading "a bit of manga" and the whole anime:

Spoiler for Manga+Anime Spoiler:
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Old 2007-12-09, 03:26   Link #2011
gaguri
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Actually there is no confirmation of season two yet from any credible source. Unless one is tool enough to believe a rumour spread in random forums or fan-made clips. Or maybe I'm living under a rock, so someone may kindly enlighten this lazy fool with a credible source.

I also dislike using manga to derive plots in anime, since they're essentially two different stories (just like how manga and anime in Bokurano, FullMetalAlchemist, etc. tell different stories). What's important are the things occuring on the screen and not on the pages. Ignoring your take on characters, messages, story progression, etc. and accepting informations spoon fed from what is essentially a different story, is what I'd consider as a blind interpretation.
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Old 2007-12-09, 15:53   Link #2012
Arthas1011
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Maybe if we found a way to e-mail the creators or write to them?? Then we could request it of them??
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Old 2007-12-11, 13:59   Link #2013
CheoChiem
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anime was awesome killed alot of people roarrrrrrr
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Old 2007-12-11, 18:19   Link #2014
Kristen
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Well, I managed to stumble across this anime at least twenty times whenever I was looking for suggestions, or whenever I was just looking through animes which seemed kind of interesting. And that's exactly what this anime was... interesting.

In a way, I feel like the nudity could have been done away with. It was really just fanservice for the male audience. Eventually, I just kind of learned to ignore it, but it was strange for the first few episodes to have so much of it. It almost seemed a bit forced... Kind of like Yuta's "Would you like to suck my breasts" comment in one of the early episodes...

The violence was gruesome. Since the main theme of this anime was violence, it wasn't quite as bad as some of the romances I've seen. Like, I found this show to be less unsettling than School Days, because violence was to be expected in here. The only scene, other than the first 8 minutes, which really got to me was when number 35 destroyed her foster mother, since they showed the rib cage bursting out of her body.

The last episode did get me tear up, which was a plus. But the biggest plus goes to the plotline and the original concept. The guy who was writing this really knew what he was talking about, so it made it all the better.

I really don't see them making a second season of this to finish the adaptation. Especially since this was made in 2004, it's a little too far for a second season. And I REALLY hope the manga will be completely scanlated before it gets liscenced.

I'd give this anime a 7/10. It would have been an 8 without the nudity.
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Old 2007-12-11, 18:57   Link #2015
Elfgirlblood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stjeppe View Post
BlaBlaBla

my impression is she's alive..as Nyu or that persona when she was younger (cant remember name, sorry)

no problems with the company since they can only follow the bloodtrace or rely on other diclonius to detect her but they can't since she's lost her horns so isn't a diclonius anymore
I believe she lived too. Its got very much the whole 3x3 eyes feel to it. I think she would have wanted to die. But with the fact she loved kohta so much and the fact that the evil scientists are still very much alive and functioning. Lucy would really be their only defence as I sure they would still want nana dead and the others dead as witnesses, and after all who would visit them at the end? Not some by them selves anyways, unless it was Lucy.
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Old 2007-12-11, 20:34   Link #2016
Reno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
In a way, I feel like the nudity could have been done away with. It was really just fanservice for the male audience.
I disagree. Elfen Lied just wouldn't be what it is without it and the violence. Because it... without it you wouldn't get the full picture. If anything was covered up... well, it wouldn't seem as... real. If you know what I mean. You know everything that's happening so you can get the full blast of it.

Also.... SEVEN OUT OF TEN!?
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Old 2007-12-11, 20:57   Link #2017
Kristen
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Originally Posted by Reno View Post
I disagree. Elfen Lied just wouldn't be what it is without it and the violence. Because it... without it you wouldn't get the full picture. If anything was covered up... well, it wouldn't seem as... real. If you know what I mean. You know everything that's happening so you can get the full blast of it.

Also.... SEVEN OUT OF TEN!?
Well, violence is a given. But the nudity probably shouldn't have been in there, in my opinion. I mean, it was effective in showing the brutal abuse these creatures had to go through. But I think that should have been sacraficed so as to make the anime easier to watch. I mean, maybe replace the nudity with some bruises and scars.

And yes, 7/10. Higher or lower than you expected?
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Old 2007-12-11, 21:36   Link #2018
gaguri
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You and I share a very similar opinion. Shocking nudity and violence instantly grabbed me from the beginning, but it was obvious that it was getting blatant throughout the series. One thing Elfen Lied desperately needed was subtelty, but unfortunately, the potentially powerful story was smeared by all the blatantly forced violence, nudity and other type of fanservice. There are numerous other minor flaws as well, but that was my biggest problem with the series. Overall I would personally rate this series 6/10, redeemed only by somewhat touching last episode, and rather unusual ending.
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Old 2007-12-12, 06:19   Link #2019
Elfgirlblood
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Originally Posted by Reno View Post
I disagree. Elfen Lied just wouldn't be what it is without it and the violence. Because it... without it you wouldn't get the full picture. If anything was covered up... well, it wouldn't seem as... real. If you know what I mean. You know everything that's happening so you can get the full blast of it.

Also.... SEVEN OUT OF TEN!?
I think certain people dont seem to understand excatly the point of this anime.
The fact the a pet dog was beaten to death, with blood splattering on young kids. A girl being sexually abused by her step father that kinda portrays the strong emotions that this anime holds. I believe that the point of this anime was to tell a strong,shocking,tragic story without nudity and voilence it would not be the anime it is. Elfien lied in its full unforgiving state is perfect.

Censor it and your lower its free unrelenting power. There are many many animes that you could censor but would it really make it better? The scene in 'arc the lad' where he strangles his best friend? The scene in 'Higurashi no naku koroni' when keichi beats some girls to death? etc. Take away those scenes or reconstruct them and what would you be left with? The same anime with half the emotion gone.

I would give elfien lied 10/10 because I cannot think of anyway I could improve this. It has style,depth,shock factor,deep love,imagnative deaths and all packed with those beautiful intros/endings. I am sure the directors and the writer lynn okamoto are happy with the final results.
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Old 2007-12-12, 08:44   Link #2020
gaguri
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You don't have to show everything so blatantly in order to get the full effect. It works in the case of films like Shindler's list, in order to portray the bestiality of men as it is. Elfen Lied does it poorly and in bad taste. Higurashi comparison is a bad example because they used it much more effectively. Subtlety would have been much more effective. Take Now and then here and there for example, where almost any violent (or rape scene) scored much stronger effects without showing anything, only invoking powerful things in our imagination.

I guess it's me who's missing this wonderful and creative point of this show, and I for one, don't mind missing out on those 'terriblly depressing feelings' one bit, when watching some poorly drawn bodies being chopped off in 'imaginative deaths'(thats a new one), and an underaged girl doing it with her step-father in a doggystyle.
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