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Old 2007-12-09, 19:27   Link #181
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
The root partition should be enough, since it holds the system files and programs. Your home folder holds your personal files and the configuration files for all of your programs, which means that if you reinstall the system without touching the home partition, you'll be greeted by the exact same desktop you had before, for example. In the same manner, as you reinstall your programs (which need to be reinstalled since they're stored in the root partition), all of their settings will be just like they were before reinstalling the system.
What if, let's say, the stored configuration file create err conflict for the new version of the same program? Keep in mind I don't know anything about anything, but I'm referring to the scenario of the new version of program has some changes, for example, configure in a different way.

EDIT: As for speaker, I've read that normal speakers are better than PC speakers?
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Last edited by teachopvutru; 2007-12-09 at 20:11.
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Old 2007-12-09, 20:38   Link #182
hobbes_fan
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Yes it's true generally. Generally home theatre speakers are better quality, the enclosure (the bit that houses the speakers) are better designed and suit the speakers. That is why I said if you wanted to listen to music I'd be recommending active monitors over pc speakers.

PC speakers are ok, but the expensive ones aren't very good value.
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Old 2007-12-09, 21:11   Link #183
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
What if, let's say, the stored configuration file create err conflict for the new version of the same program? Keep in mind I don't know anything about anything, but I'm referring to the scenario of the new version of program has some changes, for example, configure in a different way.
In that case it'd be the program's fault (or its developers'). If there were a program that would have gotten such a big change, the thing would have probably received a name change (or at least its configuration files). Or it would completely ignore the previous settings (as it doesn't understand them). It's really hard to have such a program (supposing it's not something like a compiler or an interpreter, but in those cases the developers should be version-conscious, and those things hardly ever store their configuration in the user's home directory)... and even so, there's no reason for it to harm the OS at all.

Short answer: there won't be such a program. And if it ever happened, then it won't be much of a big deal... rm -rf is your friend (as in "rm -rf ~/*configuration folder*").
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Old 2007-12-09, 21:24   Link #184
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
I've heard that it's not recommended to do upgrade and a fresh install is preferable. Even so, do I only do it onto the / partition?
Doing a fresh install is the recommended method among Mac OS X users, it seems - interesting that Linux users say to do the same thing.

The reason for a fresh install is largely because people don't want to risk messing something up. If you don't really modify your system, there's very little risk of something bad happening during an upgrade. If you heavily modify your system, such as installing programs that impact the system at a very deep level, that could cause problems with an upgrade.

For example, after the latest version of Mac OS X was released, some people reported that their computers would enter the installation phase and promptly blue-screen, leaving them with an unusable computer that wouldn't let them upgrade the OS. The only option was to do a clean install. The problem was traced to a third-party program that supposedly had some security functions by monitoring the RAM, or some such thing.

This isn't just a Unix system issue, as I actually had something similar happen to me on Windows. I believe I was upgrading from Windows ME to XP, when the update process failed without leaving DOS. There was a write-protected driver that was causing the update to halt. It was linked to my firewall. I figured I'd just go into Windows, uninstall the firewall, and be on my way, but no - the system couldn't boot. I couldn't reinstall Windows ME, and I couldn't upgrade to XP. I don't remember if I removed the file through DOS or if I ended up doing a full format, but it could happen to anyone

The other argument is that a clean install will not produce unexpected behaviors, and that it may offer better performance. I think the performance issue isn't true in most cases.

Upgrading is a more convenient way to go. If you have backups and wouldn't be screwed by having an unbootable system, I'd recommend trying to upgrade instead of doing a clean install - unless doing a clean install will be rather painless. (Mac OS X offers a third upgrade option, in addition to upgrading and doing a clean install, called "archive and install" - it backs up your old system and user folders, then installs the new system from scratch. If you select the option to do so, the installer will then import your user files and preferences back to the new system. That's probably the best upgrade mechanism.)
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Old 2007-12-09, 21:40   Link #185
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Quote:
unless doing a clean install will be rather painless.
The thing is, a clean install *is* rather painless on Linux (since you can keep all your data in your home partition), but on distros with a decent packaging system, there shouldn't be many issues. Of course, if you completely rape your sources.list file (in Debian-based distros), you may encounter problems, which was what happened to many people who used Automatix, but in general there shouldn't be issues. And if there were, well, a clean install should be rather painless
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Old 2007-12-10, 02:43   Link #186
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
Yes it's true generally. Generally home theatre speakers are better quality, the enclosure (the bit that houses the speakers) are better designed and suit the speakers. That is why I said if you wanted to listen to music I'd be recommending active monitors over pc speakers.

PC speakers are ok, but the expensive ones aren't very good value.
Please give an estimation of expensive.

Also, for $99.99, would you suggest the active monitors from the site you linked me to or the klipsch?

Generally, what do you look for when you buy speakers? I have heard terms like Watts, Sub-Woofers, Amplifier, Equalizer, Bass, and a whole bunch of others I don't really remember...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
In that case it'd be the program's fault (or its developers'). If there were a program that would have gotten such a big change, the thing would have probably received a name change (or at least its configuration files). Or it would completely ignore the previous settings (as it doesn't understand them). It's really hard to have such a program (supposing it's not something like a compiler or an interpreter, but in those cases the developers should be version-conscious, and those things hardly ever store their configuration in the user's home directory)... and even so, there's no reason for it to harm the OS at all.

Short answer: there won't be such a program. And if it ever happened, then it won't be much of a big deal... rm -rf is your friend (as in "rm -rf ~/*configuration folder*").
You were very close on recommending dangerous commands to newbies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Doing a fresh install is the recommended method among Mac OS X users, it seems - interesting that Linux users say to do the same thing.

The reason for a fresh install is largely because people don't want to risk messing something up. If you don't really modify your system, there's very little risk of something bad happening during an upgrade. If you heavily modify your system, such as installing programs that impact the system at a very deep level, that could cause problems with an upgrade.

For example, after the latest version of Mac OS X was released, some people reported that their computers would enter the installation phase and promptly blue-screen, leaving them with an unusable computer that wouldn't let them upgrade the OS. The only option was to do a clean install. The problem was traced to a third-party program that supposedly had some security functions by monitoring the RAM, or some such thing.

This isn't just a Unix system issue, as I actually had something similar happen to me on Windows. I believe I was upgrading from Windows ME to XP, when the update process failed without leaving DOS. There was a write-protected driver that was causing the update to halt. It was linked to my firewall. I figured I'd just go into Windows, uninstall the firewall, and be on my way, but no - the system couldn't boot. I couldn't reinstall Windows ME, and I couldn't upgrade to XP. I don't remember if I removed the file through DOS or if I ended up doing a full format, but it could happen to anyone

The other argument is that a clean install will not produce unexpected behaviors, and that it may offer better performance. I think the performance issue isn't true in most cases.

Upgrading is a more convenient way to go. If you have backups and wouldn't be screwed by having an unbootable system, I'd recommend trying to upgrade instead of doing a clean install - unless doing a clean install will be rather painless. (Mac OS X offers a third upgrade option, in addition to upgrading and doing a clean install, called "archive and install" - it backs up your old system and user folders, then installs the new system from scratch. If you select the option to do so, the installer will then import your user files and preferences back to the new system. That's probably the best upgrade mechanism.)
Thanks for the flashback of your personal experience regarding upgrading an OS. Speaking of upgrading/installing OSes and stuff, when I was about to reformat the whole of my other computer through Destructive Recovery (I have an HP-Compaq Presario PC, and the option was available through pressing F10 when the computer boots up). But when I pressed F10, nothing really happened... I'm trying to get my PC back to when-I-just-bought setting since on that computer, XP is crippling, and Ubuntu keeps getting freezes. (I think it's something about installing Ubuntu overriding the GRUB menu that allows me to access the recovery partition)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
The thing is, a clean install *is* rather painless on Linux (since you can keep all your data in your home partition), but on distros with a decent packaging system, there shouldn't be many issues. Of course, if you completely rape your sources.list file (in Debian-based distros), you may encounter problems, which was what happened to many people who used Automatix, but in general there shouldn't be issues. And if there were, well, a clean install should be rather painless
Hmmm... Well, it looks like it's safe to do upgrade after all. (Well, I'm aware that a new version won't be released until like April next year)


PS: 15 now.
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Old 2007-12-10, 04:04   Link #187
hobbes_fan
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This can get complicated (ie an essay per point but I'll keep it to one and two sentences)
Ok Watts does not equal instantly good, it has to be usable wattage. (have you ever turned a really crap set of headphones/speakers loud? and heard it distort? the speaker starts sounding fuzzy)

Amplifier - What sends the signal to the speaker making it louder/softer etc etc.

Equalizer - tool that tailors sound frequencies. You can make frequencies louder or softer. For example in a song with a lot of vocals you can boost the midrange frequencies to emphasize them.

Speakers: 3 types specialize in different sounds -Midrange (for vocals) Tweeter (high frequency like violin etc), (sub)Woofer (low frequencies think "doof doof" drums). Then there's full range which can do all three but not quite as good as having dedicated speakers.
Speakers also have to work in an appropriate enclosure. You will never get deep natural bass from a 25cm subwoofer in a enclosure the size of a shoebox.

I'd probably go with the Klipsch, it's more rounded and for your application where you listen to music/movies on a 50-50 percentage. It will give a better "atmosphere" with gaming and movies. With any set of speakers placement is very important. The little speakers should be around desktop height, but the subwoofer should be on the floor.

As I said you have to trust your ears in the end and look at what you like to do.


AS to my example
I'd rather buy this
http://www.amazon.com/ONKYO-SKS-HT24...7276602&sr=1-1
over
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16836116142

On specs alone I know the Onkyo will deliver better sound in terms of atmosphere, has dedicated components for specific frequencies (all the surround speakers use appropriate size enclosures), the bass will be deeper an richer. The speaker designs are appropriate.

It's probably a poor example and doesn't apply to you but it really start applying around $200
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Old 2007-12-10, 10:01   Link #188
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
PS: 15 now.
Happy birthday
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Old 2007-12-10, 16:29   Link #189
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
Speakers: 3 types specialize in different sounds -Midrange (for vocals) Tweeter (high frequency like violin etc), (sub)Woofer (low frequencies think "doof doof" drums). Then there's full range which can do all three but not quite as good as having dedicated speakers.
Speakers also have to work in an appropriate enclosure. You will never get deep natural bass from a 25cm subwoofer in a enclosure the size of a shoebox.
Hmmm... why is it that I usually see Subwoofer more over the others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
I'd probably go with the Klipsch, it's more rounded and for your application where you listen to music/movies on a 50-50 percentage. It will give a better "atmosphere" with gaming and movies. With any set of speakers placement is very important. The little speakers should be around desktop height, but the subwoofer should be on the floor.
Okay, thanks for the suggestion. But I don't quite understand the significance of speaker placement... (though I believe that would probably more applied to the setups with several speakers?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
AS to my example
I'd rather buy this
http://www.amazon.com/ONKYO-SKS-HT24...7276602&sr=1-1
over
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16836116142

On specs alone I know the Onkyo will deliver better sound in terms of atmosphere, has dedicated components for specific frequencies (all the surround speakers use appropriate size enclosures), the bass will be deeper an richer. The speaker designs are appropriate.

It's probably a poor example and doesn't apply to you but it really start applying around $200
I don't quite understand the example... If the Onkyo delivers better sound, and it is cheaper, what's the problem with choosing it?

Quote:
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Old 2007-12-10, 18:13   Link #190
hobbes_fan
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That's the point, Home theatre speakers sound better for less $ over PC speakers

Bass is omnidirectional (throw a rock in a pond, watch how the ripples spread out evenly that how bass frequencies travel) Midrange and Treble are not. They need to be focused towards your ears.

People are idiots that's why subwoofers are so advertised heavily. It's by far the biggest and loudest speaker so it's used to show the supposed awesomeness of speakers. Never mind that good bass is easy to produce
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Old 2007-12-10, 19:32   Link #191
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
Speaking of upgrading/installing OSes and stuff, when I was about to reformat the whole of my other computer through Destructive Recovery (I have an HP-Compaq Presario PC, and the option was available through pressing F10 when the computer boots up). But when I pressed F10, nothing really happened... I'm trying to get my PC back to when-I-just-bought setting since on that computer, XP is crippling, and Ubuntu keeps getting freezes. (I think it's something about installing Ubuntu overriding the GRUB menu that allows me to access the recovery partition)
Usually the "factory reset" ability comes on a CD or DVD, and you'd need to boot from it. I know that some manufacturers have their systems come with two partitions, one of which contains recovery files. It's possible that the F10 thing you're thinking of would have utilized one of those recovery partitions, although I've never heard of that before. If it does work that way, then it'd explain why pressing F10 doesn't do anything (I presume you've formatted the entire system since you bought it).
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Old 2007-12-10, 22:45   Link #192
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
That's the point, Home theatre speakers sound better for less $ over PC speakers

Bass is omnidirectional (throw a rock in a pond, watch how the ripples spread out evenly that how bass frequencies travel) Midrange and Treble are not. They need to be focused towards your ears.

People are idiots that's why subwoofers are so advertised heavily. It's by far the biggest and loudest speaker so it's used to show the supposed awesomeness of speakers. Never mind that good bass is easy to produce
Hmmm... it's interesting how what the fuss usually about is actually easy to achieve...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Usually the "factory reset" ability comes on a CD or DVD, and you'd need to boot from it. I know that some manufacturers have their systems come with two partitions, one of which contains recovery files. It's possible that the F10 thing you're thinking of would have utilized one of those recovery partitions, although I've never heard of that before. If it does work that way, then it'd explain why pressing F10 doesn't do anything (I presume you've formatted the entire system since you bought it).
I think the Recovery Partition is still there though. I just need to access it later.

In any case, this thread has probably gone long enough. Time to stop it... I guess. I thank you very much and appreciate you guys help. (kudos to the huge amount of knowledge and kindness you possess )
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Old 2007-12-11, 01:12   Link #193
grey_moon
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@tiachopvutru - Happy birthday!

Hee hee I'm posting late again! What OS are you planning on running? Is it Ubuntu? If it is do you know how to set-up lm-sensors and gnome sensor applets to give you CPU monitoring?
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Old 2007-12-11, 02:25   Link #194
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
@tiachopvutru - Happy birthday!

Hee hee I'm posting late again! What OS are you planning on running? Is it Ubuntu? If it is do you know how to set-up lm-sensors and gnome sensor applets to give you CPU monitoring?
Thank you. Anyway, I've already ran Ubuntu since Saturday afternoon. I've downloaded sensors-applet along with hddtemp and lm-sensors, but I could only add hddtemp to the gnome panel. It doesn't detect lm-sensors for some reason.
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Old 2007-12-11, 08:37   Link #195
Zero Shinohara
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@tiachopvutru: Happy Birthday!

* Zero goes back at cursing his LAN teacher and reviewing tons of code and random crap for final exams. *
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Old 2007-12-11, 16:20   Link #196
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
* Zero goes back at cursing his LAN teacher and reviewing tons of code and random crap for final exams. *
LAN teacher? Do you know anything about how to set up distributed computing over a LAN, specifically via Apple's XGrid? I requested that my boss buy us a 1 gbps switch to connect all our systems on, as the university's 100 mbps wasn't cutting it (we weren't even getting the full speed). All our systems support 1 gbps LAN as it is (except for a lonely Dell we have down here) so I figure it should be fast enough to do distributed computing on. And it'd help quite a bit to speed up DVD encoding and such...
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Old 2007-12-11, 16:42   Link #197
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
@tiachopvutru: Happy Birthday!

* Zero goes back at cursing his LAN teacher and reviewing tons of code and random crap for final exams. *
Thank you.

Hmmm... final exam, eh? I've been wondering where you been since a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
LAN teacher? Do you know anything about how to set up distributed computing over a LAN, specifically via Apple's XGrid? I requested that my boss buy us a 1 gbps switch to connect all our systems on, as the university's 100 mbps wasn't cutting it (we weren't even getting the full speed). All our systems support 1 gbps LAN as it is (except for a lonely Dell we have down here) so I figure it should be fast enough to do distributed computing on. And it'd help quite a bit to speed up DVD encoding and such...
How does LAN have anything to do with DVD encoding?

...
...
...
I want to go to college!
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Old 2007-12-11, 17:26   Link #198
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
How does LAN have anything to do with DVD encoding?

...
...
...
I want to go to college!
What I'd like to do is to distribute the encoding task to multiple computers. If you're familiar with the SETI@Home project, or other similar projects, it's the same concept although they're laid out differently. SETI@Home and others send out small bits of computing tasks that are later assembled together. XGrid and others make use of high-bandwidth connections to help with the processing pretty much in real time, I believe.

It'd be useful because we have a few systems down here of varying power. If I could tap into the more powerful systems while on a slower system, or use the slightly slower systems to bolster the computing power of a faster one, it should result in quicker encodes.

The other aspect is that currently, to transfer files back and forth, I have two options: send through the network (which doesn't net me more than 3 MB/s, it seems), or store on one of our external drives and then unplug/replug the drive in to the varying systems. Some of our systems support Firewire 800, which is painless, but Firewire 400 is a pain when transferring 10+ GB files. A 1 Gbps link should give all systems closer to Firewire 800 speeds (in theory, they should be faster, but we'll see).

I think the network switch came in today, so I'm rather excited. Unfortunately I can't set it up just yet - have to study for finals and write one last paper...
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