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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 09 Rating
Perfect 10 43 30.94%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 56 40.29%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 22 15.83%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 6.47%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.44%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.72%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.72%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.44%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-12-07, 21:33   Link #301
Duo Maxwell
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A little bit late this time, huh? ^^
Nice review. With a lot of pics as usual .

Felt is in CB because of her parents, so I don't think she is chosen by Veda, and this maybe the same with Christina, although I kind of doubt about that, seeing how she freaked out during the operation. She just did not mentally prepare enough.
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Old 2007-12-08, 01:51   Link #302
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I'm purely talking about AEU's public pronouncements; not about what they might be planning to do.
Doesn't matter. Announcements made it crystal clear that they are only in it to protect their own assets. As any responsible nation SHOULD do instead of meddling in foreign affairs it really has no business in. CB attacking other nations? That's not AEU's jurisdiction or responsibility. Behind doors or on public announcements, I think that they made that really clear.

Being 'cowardly' has nothing to do with any of it. Lunging head first into the issue might be a 'cowardly' thing to do as well. Just go out there to snatch yourself military technology? There clearly is no connecting the three world powers at the moment. It's not easy to call which ever faction as 'cowardly' for sure as of now as the situation is still beginning to unfold, six months after CB has started acting.

Quote:
You don't seem to get it. Celestial Being isn't a country, so there'll be no such thing as a formal military response to begin with. However, if they wanted the public to know that they weren't going to let an attack on them go unanswered, there's tons of ways of conveying that besides "we'll only do something if they penetrate our territory again".
It seems to me that you don't get what I'm going at. We do all sorts of formal actions on smaller sects and terrorist cells and less organized and even individual crimes depending on foreign relations all the time. CB is essentially a terrorist group to a national identity since they're using force and fear through deterrent action and if AEU decided to intervene, then it's formalized. It's public and it is a war of sorts. If anything, it IS a formal action. There is no way around it.

Quote:
And how is this supposed to be a zero-sum game?
Gauging enemy strength to come up with proper response to equalize it. Are you even watching the show, here, or do I need to spell everything out?

Quote:
My point is that your argument was a hasty generalization - just because a ship escaped being detected by technique X for a period of time, that doesn't mean that it will escape such detection indefinitely.
And yet it did for months until someone was able to put an alternative technique to do so. Again, you're just flying around the empirical argument here. I'm not saying I'm 100% right on this, but you're not really putting on a good case that the WORLD powers couldn't have done something as easy as visual observation. Just to say that it's simple negligence or something to that effect just isn't convincing to me.

Quote:
Incorrect. My argument was that it would have been more prudent had Ptolemaios taken precautions against the possibility of getting found.
Okay. Since when did I ever argue that? I was talking about the visual contact thing and since Ptolemaios was able to get around it and utilize that same tactic, they apparently felt it was a safe course of action. For how long was it? SIX months? I'm not arguing that it was the most safe course of action. And how can you definitely argue that it would be safe to stay further out? Perhaps the ship hiding in lower orbit with more space objects and debris was its cover. I know where you're coming from, but it's not a definite answer.

The thing that gets me is that Celstial Being has done things so deliberately, your saying that it's all simple, run of the mill, Joe Schmoe negligence just rings hollow to me.

Quote:
How do you manage to conclude that, simply because the HRL used one technique to detect Ptolemaios, any other technique automatically wouldn't work? That looks more like fallacious logic than empirical logic.
You're not understanding what 'six month of not being detected in low orbit in plain sight of all the major world powers' means here.

If you're going to act all stubborn, that's fine. But I'm just feeling a ton of dogma and not much in how it's being supported according to the show.

Last edited by SuperKnuckles; 2007-12-08 at 07:06.
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Old 2007-12-08, 03:51   Link #303
hipeach
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Originally Posted by dreamless View Post
well, he actually scored a hit against one of the incoming missiles. I think there was some interview that says Setsuna suffers something psychological that makes him think it doesn't feel right for him to dispatch enemy from afar.
are you saying Setsuna is like Treize in W who believes in melee fights?

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Originally Posted by brightman View Post
Archetype != clone. Otherwise its like calling every tsundere an Asuka clone.
right on. Felt is very different from Rei. Not necessarily better, but different.
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Old 2007-12-08, 06:37   Link #304
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Last edited by FireChick; 2007-12-08 at 07:34.
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Old 2007-12-08, 09:13   Link #305
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
Doesn't matter. Announcements made it crystal clear that they are only in it to protect their own assets. As any responsible nation SHOULD do instead of meddling in foreign affairs it really has no business in.
What do you mean by "meddling in foreign affairs"? The AEU had been attacked multiple times already - it's very much their affair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
Being 'cowardly' has nothing to do with any of it. Lunging head first into the issue might be a 'cowardly' thing to do as well. Just go out there to snatch yourself military technology? There clearly is no connecting the three world powers at the moment.
What do you mean by "lunging head first"? You are aware of the alternative approaches, aren't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
It seems to me that you don't get what I'm going at. We do all sorts of formal actions on smaller sects and terrorist cells and less organized and even individual crimes depending on foreign relations all the time.
None of these are even close to a declaration of war - which would be what a formal military response entails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
Gauging enemy strength to come up with proper response to equalize it. Are you even watching the show, here, or do I need to spell everything out?
That sounds a lot more like the idea of balance of power. Unfortunately for your position, balance of power is totally unrelated to the idea of a zero-sum game. I suppose you can try spelling it out, but I'm not sure how it's supposed to help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
Okay. Since when did I ever argue that?
My point is that you're mistaking what my argument is. Your statement, "And like you said, you plainly said before that if the ship couldn't be found on radar, it'd be natural for them to do so via visual contact" is totally missing the point since I'm just talking about the precautions that would seem to make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
I was talking about the visual contact thing and since Ptolemaios was able to get around it and utilize that same tactic, they apparently felt it was a safe course of action. For how long was it? SIX months?
Again, simply because an imprudent course of action has been successful for a period of time doesn't mean that it will be successful indefinitely. By the way, Furuya Tohru plainly said that it was four months since Celestial Being's public announcement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
The thing that gets me is that Celstial Being has done things so deliberately, your saying that it's all simple, run of the mill, Joe Schmoe negligence just rings hollow to me.
Are you trying to claim that when an organization does something deliberately, it automatically means that it wasn't a mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles
You're not understanding what 'six month of not being detected in low orbit in plain sight of all the major world powers' means here.
Please explain exactly what it means.

And by the way, what do you mean by dogma?
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Old 2007-12-08, 09:36   Link #306
glyph
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post


In other words, that poster just gave away the plot for Episode 10. ( -_-")
Is Nadle the official romanization? It seems to me "Nadir" makes more sense, and is keeping with the 'celestial' theme of CB naming conventions.
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Old 2007-12-08, 09:40   Link #307
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Originally Posted by glyph View Post
Is Nadle the official romanization? It seems to me "Nadir" makes more sense, and is keeping with the 'celestial' theme of CB naming conventions.
Its officially the GN-004 Gundam Nadleeh.

A nadleeh in Navajo society is a cross-dressing man... Fitting for Tieria.
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Old 2007-12-08, 09:46   Link #308
glyph
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Originally Posted by brightman View Post
Its the GN-004 Gundam Nadleeh.
Really?

Googles up "Nadleeh".

LOL, fitting name, given the pilot.
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Old 2007-12-08, 10:18   Link #309
Demongod86
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There's gotta be some other meaning -_-...

I seriously wonder why they did what they did with Tieria...the producers/writers/w.e
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Old 2007-12-08, 12:01   Link #310
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by brightman View Post
Its officially the GN-004 Gundam Nadleeh.

A nadleeh in Navajo society is a cross-dressing man... Fitting for Tieria.
Not really. What's the name for cross-dressing woman?
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Old 2007-12-08, 13:34   Link #311
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Not really. What's the name for cross-dressing woman?
Keh. Tieria's a man, just with huge identity issues
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Old 2007-12-08, 14:24   Link #312
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
What do you mean by "meddling in foreign affairs"? The AEU had been attacked multiple times already - it's very much their affair.
Wow. Way to argue every single point just to make it through, eh? If AEU is attacked, THEN it is their affair. They clearly stated that they won't take action as long as it involves FOREIGN nations.

Quote:
What do you mean by "lunging head first"? You are aware of the alternative approaches, aren't you?
Which entails more secretive ways beyond openly declaring war or public action. Like what they're doing now. I'm not exactly disagreeing with you on that they are free to take action. It's just not formalized in public.

Quote:
None of these are even close to a declaration of war - which would be what a formal military response entails.
So? Why does formalization matter to you that much? Would a vague 'war on terror' do for you? The fact of the matter is that they are still pretty much in the mix with their proxy support of Moralia. That is all they need at this point. If CB was to be more threatening to AEU interests, then they will act accordingly. There is no major war, no major threat to AEU interests, no need to act brash with a war they may or may not win at this point with what little mobile suit development we've seen out of them.

Quote:
That sounds a lot more like the idea of balance of power. Unfortunately for your position, balance of power is totally unrelated to the idea of a zero-sum game. I suppose you can try spelling it out, but I'm not sure how it's supposed to help you.
It's basically both. They're aiming for zero sum through balance of power, especially when CB is wreaking havoc and possibly throwing off the balance. Each faction playing with CB's wrath, then coming up with ways to profit off of it, then getting shot down by CB again, that pretty much sums it up.

Quote:
My point is that you're mistaking what my argument is. Your statement, "And like you said, you plainly said before that if the ship couldn't be found on radar, it'd be natural for them to do so via visual contact" is totally missing the point since I'm just talking about the precautions that would seem to make sense.
I didn't mistake your point. I already said that the 'precautions' that you mention aren't definitely clear or maybe even sensible. You can't be sure the 'precautions' of just floating further in space would be better to throw off sensors and perhaps launching from further away would be detrimental to the ease of the mission. You're going by this from some dogmatic thinking that your alternative is the perfectly correct one. If so, then why would such a specialized group such as CB resort to using such tactics for months at a time with great success? Precautions, precautions, but that is not really answering the empirical argument of it.

Quote:
Again, simply because an imprudent course of action has been successful for a period of time doesn't mean that it will be successful indefinitely. By the way, Furuya Tohru plainly said that it was four months since Celestial Being's public announcement.
When did I ever say that it'd be successful indefinitely? Whether it's perfectly safe or not, they chose to do that quite deliberately in a strategic perspective (really, it was never the visual contact that took them down, wasn't it? It was a communication field that did. Which could've been preventable as long as the crew was slightly more attentive). Don't put the onus on me every time for mentioning it because that is what the show is trying to portray.

Could it have been safer to go further in space? Maybe. But why would CB do it to begin with? You can't possibly convince me that they did it to jeopardize their mission. Their technology was able to deal with it in stride. They did not just go into lower orbit then get shot down. Even after getting 'caught', they were able to fight back pretty damn well.

Quote:
Are you trying to claim that when an organization does something deliberately, it automatically means that it wasn't a mistake?
Again, I NEVER DISAGREED it was a possible mistake. Again, you're coming from some high and mighty view on this on how your tactic would've been infallible. That is not the point. Not only is that beyond proving as we can't know for certain, but they used that tactic for a purpose. It's not a matter of simple deliberateness. It was a strategic choice and CB, as unprofessional as its general conduct seems to be, never seems to do things out of pure whim.

Quote:
Please explain exactly what it means.

And by the way, what do you mean by dogma?
Exactly what I said. If the major world powers can't simply track down CB visually for months at a time, then there must have been something done right for CB's tactical and strategic prowess. Their success isn't because of the three world powers' lack of prowess. It's BECAUSE of CB's overall prowess that they were successful. Likewise, when CB failed to go beyond detection, it wasn't the world powers' sudden prowess in finding CB alone. It was CB's lapse, and not some major strategic move that cost them.

And by dogmatic, I meant how you're thinking that the argument of taking it to the higher orbit = automatic safety. I understand your viewpoint. I really do. But that is not concordant to the actions the organization have shown all up till now, and it's not like HRL was the sole factor in finding them out. It was a mistake on CB's side that did it. I'm not exactly saying that I'm perfect right here because we'll never know what course of action would have exactly been the best. If the comm officer was present on the bridge when HRL was doing its mission, then we may never be talking about this at all.

Again, I never argued that CB did a lot of little things wrong. Just that taking one side and thinking their strategy was fatally flawed from the get go, that is just a vague argument.
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Old 2007-12-09, 04:08   Link #313
MooMooFarm
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Well the fights were already getting crappier, thats why i thought of watching it for the lolis. From the start, i thought the action was only so so.The fights were too clean, Exia sliced to all the grunts too cleanly, there wasnt any fancy moves, just really slow clean slices but no real cuts and slash. Theres no spinning kick, no shooting from upside down,no melting metal, no blood, no fancy stuffs. Maybe the anime is just starting and they dont want to get to details now

Well , animes are getting really lame in action this days,and there isnt many people who are creative in making action scenes anymore, people this days demand more romance and sexual appeal. This days people discourage violence or anything that depict violence and encourage adultry by any means possible.Which is sad really.
This is sadly true. Still doesn't condone lolis =(

If people are actually discouraging violence these days in something as novelty as animes, mangas officially win over their animated counter parts.

But yes, that's kinda what I meant when the gundam fights looked sad. Still, glimpses of it were seen during Ali vs Setsuna. I'm hoping they just saved the good stuff for later rather then just come out short. If a gundam series actually goes backwards with its fighting pace, might as well request the old GS/GSD recyclers and hope they go back to speedy gonzales fights.
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Old 2007-12-10, 06:55   Link #314
Owaranai Destiny
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Two mistakes in a row. The Ptolemy crew should be grateful for this HRL wake-up call soon enough, as long as they get out of this mess in one piece. Goes to show that even just one or two faults is enough to send them into a crisis, especially since they are on the most wanted list. Moral of the story: Stop sitting on your laurels and wake up. You're not invincible or invisible for that matter.

Christina's mentioning of Allelujah's name got me interested, though I know for one that he is actually one of the more normal people around despite having a second, not-so-friendly personality hidden. The tactics used were pretty good compared to those I've seen in Gundam Seed Destiny-Wait, were there even clever and elaborate tactics used then?

Well, the transition from peaceful, relaxed and calm into a frenzied emergency situation wasn't too bad, either, so I'll leave it at that.

For now, I deign this good enough to warrant an 8. Not many flaws to be nitpicked about, though those who love exploding mobile suits might be disappointed.
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Old 2007-12-10, 21:47   Link #315
bloodyknight
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Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny View Post
Two mistakes in a row. The Ptolemy crew should be grateful for this HRL wake-up call soon enough, as long as they get out of this mess in one piece. Goes to show that even just one or two faults is enough to send them into a crisis, especially since they are on the most wanted list. Moral of the story: Stop sitting on your laurels and wake up. You're not invincible or invisible for that matter.

Christina's mentioning of Allelujah's name got me interested, though I know for one that he is actually one of the more normal people around despite having a second, not-so-friendly personality hidden. The tactics used were pretty good compared to those I've seen in Gundam Seed Destiny-Wait, were there even clever and elaborate tactics used then?

Well, the transition from peaceful, relaxed and calm into a frenzied emergency situation wasn't too bad, either, so I'll leave it at that.

For now, I deign this good enough to warrant an 8. Not many flaws to be nitpicked about, though those who love exploding mobile suits might be disappointed.
I agree... They certainly needs a wake up call... especially when they have been successful in their quest to make a world a better place... But will this be the last time we see the Celestial Crew together?!

Because when i realize that that ship has no offensive weapons, i am shocked... Okay, they do have that GN field protecting them... but how long can that last? Especially with a female crew like that who's sudden outburst of fear of death almost really cause her own death along the way... I was so scared that that is it for that ship whihc is something different since seeing the main carrier to be destroyed after only appearing for nine episodes is something surprising...

i suppose they will come out of this alive... Intelligence is still in their hands. they still have the best MS and the tactic the Colonel of the HRL uses is already known by the captain. The only problem here is to break through that tactic of his... i can only wonder whether anyone has ever done that before...
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Old 2007-12-11, 01:38   Link #316
Eidolon Sniper
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I sure hope not. but granted that this could actually cause frictions in their relationships with each other in some way, they could have a crisis, and HRL or some other faction would try to break through it.
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