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Old 2007-12-05, 21:44   Link #1
tebahpla
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[Spoilers] Does Makoto deserve to die?

I just saw the SD anime and all i an say is that its one of the most effed up "normal" animes.

i could accept killing in such animes with tentacles and magic stuff or sci-fi themes but its a normal school with some effed up characters. though i liked the end that makoto really desereved what he got. i still have to give him credit for making it with at least 7 or 8 chicks. he also did it 4 some. 3 girls?? what a win. he deserved to die.
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Old 2007-12-06, 19:55   Link #2
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I agree, but I still found it funny.
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Old 2007-12-07, 00:55   Link #3
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Maybe Makoto wants to make himself a highway to HELL.
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Old 2007-12-16, 21:24   Link #4
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Originally Posted by tebahpla View Post
though i liked the end that makoto really desereved what he got. i still have to give him credit for making it with at least 7 or 8 chicks. he also did it 4 some. 3 girls?? what a win. he deserved to die.
How does sleeping around and being insensitive make a guy deserve to die? There are probably millions of guys in the world right now who are guilty of doing just that.

He's a high school boy. He had girls throwing themselves at him. I'll bet that most high school boys would do exactly what he did.
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Old 2007-12-16, 22:29   Link #5
ironbomb
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Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
How does sleeping around and being insensitive make a guy deserve to die? There are probably millions of guys in the world right now who are guilty of doing just that.

He's a high school boy. He had girls throwing themselves at him. I'll bet that most high school boys would do exactly what he did.
so your saying just because others are doing it, its ok?

Please man, that is just wrong for a guy to do. Ill concede this much though, to be able to pull off a 4-some with 3 girls that doesnt even really know you, gotta say, that is some task to pull BUT BY NO MEANS is it right.
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Old 2007-12-17, 01:21   Link #6
NoSanninWa
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He's not saying that Makoto's behavior was okay, he's just saying that nobody deserves a death sentence for that. While I personally do think he deserved a nice long hospital stay, it wasn't quite on the level of deserving to die.
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Old 2007-12-17, 01:49   Link #7
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa View Post
He's not saying that Makoto's behavior was okay, he's just saying that nobody deserves a death sentence for that. While I personally do think he deserved a nice long hospital stay, it wasn't quite on the level of deserving to die.
I felt dying like that was too simple. Seeing him tortured would have been a more satisfying penalty. I know that when hormones kick in, its hard to resist but by no means does it mean you should go and fool around with every girl you meet and push themselves on top of you. What also pisses me off is all the "I love you"'s that was stated just to get pussy nowadays...
I am sure those girls probably have a std, haruki, and all them...lol.. reminds me "we are ok right?", "yes because we did everything right", lmao that convo between the 3 girls lolsssss
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Old 2007-12-17, 06:02   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
There are probably millions of guys in the world right now who are guilty of doing just that.
And wouldn't it be a better world if such people never existed

Makoto never really learnt his lesson...not until the end where he was flopping around like some mad man who doesn't want to die (wait...did he learn his lesson even then!? O.O).

The alternative would be to give him good ass kicking, yes, but sekai isn't so tame (and even after the ass kicking - kotonoha would be their to kiss it better >.>).
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Old 2007-12-17, 14:50   Link #9
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Let's actually take a look at what he did wrong.

1. Cheat on psycho girl.
2. Cheat on Sekai.
3. Be insensitive to psycho girl and Sekai.

If you boil it down to the basics, that's it.

All of the other girls were using him just as much as he was using them. All of the other girls knew that he was dating someone else. He didn't force anyone. Remember that in the Japanese culture (or anime/hentai, anyways), Japanese girls are supposed to pretend like they are struggling and say 'no' even when they really want it. There is a line but I don't think he crossed it.

Even him being insensitive was a pretty standard 'guy' tactic of breaking up with someone. Just ignore them until they get the message.

The way he dealt with the pregnancy is pretty standard 'guy' behavior as well, especially considering he's a high school kid and Sekai announced the pregancy to the entire school.

Anyways, I'm not condoning what he did. I think I need more background on psycho girl for why she's so crazy. There was no explanation, so watching her go crazy was when the series starting to lose touch with reality.

I do completely understand the point of the series though. Considering the popularity of the harem genre, it's fun to see the extreme of what might happen in a real harem situation.

Heh, anyways, I have no idea why it seems like I'm defending him. I did really enjoy this new approach to the harem genre, and the overkill ending was entertaining as well.
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Old 2007-12-17, 15:18   Link #10
ironbomb
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Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
Let's actually take a look at what he did wrong.

1. Cheat on psycho girl.
2. Cheat on Sekai.
3. Be insensitive to psycho girl and Sekai.

If you boil it down to the basics, that's it.
1- What was the reason the girl went psycho? Giving false hope and then taking it away the same day. Traumatizing her and there goes her future? She wasnt exactly a your average girl, she actually intelligent when it came to studies but lacked experience in love.
2-And you saying thats ok? She was baring his child and yet he went to see other girls, that is so wrong.
3-yea basically.

Quote:
All of the other girls were using him just as much as he was using them. All of the other girls knew that he was dating someone else. He didn't force anyone. Remember that in the Japanese culture (or anime/hentai, anyways), Japanese girls are supposed to pretend like they are struggling and say 'no' even when they really want it. There is a line but I don't think he crossed it.
You are right that they were using each other as friends with benefits but he should have been the better man and pushed them off. Giving in to your desires, if everyone does that, what would this world become?

Quote:
Even him being insensitive was a pretty standard 'guy' tactic of breaking up with someone. Just ignore them until they get the message.
Sadly, I have done this myself so I shouldnt speak on this behalf but what he/I have done is just undeniably a horrible thing. It leaves false hope and things just tangle on forever. You gotta make it straight and clear otherwise it wont ever truly end.

Quote:
The way he dealt with the pregnancy is pretty standard 'guy' behavior as well, especially considering he's a high school kid and Sekai announced the pregancy to the entire school.
Its true that announcing publicly is humiliating but it doesnt change the fact that he impregnated her does it? What he did was try to avoid the problem, yea you can say that as a high school student, its hard to accept/deal with such a problem but who cause this problem? Whose fault is it that she is pregnant? I am not saying its ALL his fault but he has a BIG part to do with it.

Quote:
Anyways, I'm not condoning what he did. I think I need more background on psycho girl for why she's so crazy. There was no explanation, so watching her go crazy was when the series starting to lose touch with reality.
She has given hope on Matoko after the festival but then giving her the wrong impression the very next day...giving her hope...taking it away the same day...That was her first relationship with any guy....
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Old 2007-12-17, 18:27   Link #11
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There is no way that this being psycho girl's first relationship or Makoto's insensitivity can possibly explain her total craziness. She is a whack job, lunatic, etc. There is no way that can normally happen. Heartbreak and betrayal hurts, but it doesn't make a normal person go psychotic. From the very beginning, there were hints of something not quite right with her.

I think of myself as a really nice, understanding guy, but seriously...in high school, if that many girls threw themselves at me, I don't think I could have resisted. The problem is that once you cheat, it becomes easier and easier. Once he cheated with Sekai, it was a slippery slope.

As for the pregnancy, both are equally to blame for their situation. They were both wrong to hook up in the first place and then not use protection. How men deal with unplanned pregnancies is a pretty common TV plotline that is often used to show their character. We already knew Makoto is weak, so him running away from the situation is quite understandable. I don't know if many high school boys would handle that situation well. Plenty of adult men run away and shirk their responsibilities.
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Old 2007-12-17, 18:38   Link #12
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
There is no way that this being psycho girl's first relationship or Makoto's insensitivity can possibly explain her total craziness. She is a whack job, lunatic, etc. There is no way that can normally happen. Heartbreak and betrayal hurts, but it doesn't make a normal person go psychotic. From the very beginning, there were hints of something not quite right with her.
No, technically, there was nothing wrong with Kotonoha.
If you had to say there was a problem, you could only say that the problem was that she was an introvert, had low confidence, and was under mental stress from being bullied for her breasts/looks.
Makoto was basically everything to her, and when she lost him, she lost "everything". Everything piled together and caused her to lose it.
Yeah, normal people don't go psychotic, but you should realize that "normal" and "reality" are words that depend on the person. Each person has their own definition of normal and reality. Typically, "normal" is defined by what most people think, but that's trash. If that's the case, then normal means to be crude, cause trouble, and fall into disgrace. I, for one, refuse to bow down to the said normal! To some people, most people are not "normal". Therefore, what normally could happen is most certainly possibly not what should happen. Hmm... I started going into a weird realm...
If Makoto stayed loyal to her, she most certainly would not have snapped. After all, she returned to normal just because Makoto said she was the only one for him. Of course, she lost it afterwards, once again, after he died.
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Old 2007-12-17, 20:30   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
Let's actually take a look at what he did wrong.

1. Cheat on psycho girl.
2. Cheat on Sekai.
3. Be insensitive to psycho girl and Sekai.

If you boil it down to the basics, that's it.
Ouch...calling her the "psycho girl" right off the bat is painful...very very painful...

So I take it that you haven't notice that Sekai lost the plot as well or is your hate for kotonoha that great you can't see anything else

For the record, he wasn't just being insensitive...he was being a total SCUM of the earth...
Quote:
All of the other girls were using him just as much as he was using them. All of the other girls knew that he was dating someone else. He didn't force anyone. Remember that in the Japanese culture (or anime/hentai, anyways), Japanese girls are supposed to pretend like they are struggling and say 'no' even when they really want it. There is a line but I don't think he crossed it.
And that just gives him to right to be a playboy.

I'm sorry, but I just can't accept his attitude as being right as a human being. Sure they flocked over them but did he really have to think with the lower end of his penis? What he did was being untruthful to the people he had relationships with.

First it was kotonoha where he claimed that he loved her to the depth of hell - well, hell is certainly one place he would be ending up

Then he had the nerve to cheat on kotonoha AND TO NOT BREAK UP WITH HER EVEN THOUGH HIS FEELINGS HAPPEN TO HAVE SHIFTED TO SEKAI. Not that for me is the most unforgiveable act he did. If he had split up with kotonoha in the first place then she would have led a happy life. If she still ended up going batshit over it then I can say that it is her fault, but as it stands makoto is the main reason why she turned psycho.
Quote:
Even him being insensitive was a pretty standard 'guy' tactic of breaking up with someone. Just ignore them until they get the message.
Bull...These types of guys are the worse type ever...yet like you say, it is standard. (filthy male scums >.>).
Quote:
The way he dealt with the pregnancy is pretty standard 'guy' behavior as well, especially considering he's a high school kid and Sekai announced the pregancy to the entire school.
Great...so I should make someone pregnant and then deny it...what a way to live
Anyway, because it is "standard" as you say, doesn't make the act a right thing to do.
Quote:
Anyways, I'm not condoning what he did. I think I need more background on psycho girl for why she's so crazy. There was no explanation, so watching her go crazy was when the series starting to lose touch with reality.
What else do you need? We have see how she has degraded to that state after a series of neglect, confusion and bullying. She had a will of steel to not breakdown earlier infact.
Quote:
I do completely understand the point of the series though. Considering the popularity of the harem genre, it's fun to see the extreme of what might happen in a real harem situation.

Heh, anyways, I have no idea why it seems like I'm defending him. I did really enjoy this new approach to the harem genre, and the overkill ending was entertaining as well.
I really have no idea why you are defending him either seen as it is all his (and partially sekai's) fault.
Quote:
There is no way that this being psycho girl's first relationship or Makoto's insensitivity can possibly explain her total craziness. She is a whack job, lunatic, etc. There is no way that can normally happen. Heartbreak and betrayal hurts, but it doesn't make a normal person go psychotic. From the very beginning, there were hints of something not quite right with her.
Oh for hell's sakes...Some people are more insecure than others...for kotonoha it was like the sky crashing down on her to have endure what she did only to be told that his boyfriend has been cheating on her all this time, she even got raped goddamit. From the start we see how insecure she really is...no friends, being bullied all the time? what do you expect when she finds love that was ultimately destroyed?
Quote:
I think of myself as a really nice, understanding guy, but seriously...in high school, if that many girls threw themselves at me, I don't think I could have resisted. The problem is that once you cheat, it becomes easier and easier. Once he cheated with Sekai, it was a slippery slope.
This is where personal morales come into play...while some think it is alright to cheat, I personally think that such an act is disgusting. I wouldn't want to cheat on my girlfriend and I would expect her to do the same.
Quote:
As for the pregnancy, both are equally to blame for their situation. They were both wrong to hook up in the first place and then not use protection. How men deal with unplanned pregnancies is a pretty common TV plotline that is often used to show their character. We already knew Makoto is weak, so him running away from the situation is quite understandable. I don't know if many high school boys would handle that situation well. Plenty of adult men run away and shirk their responsibilities.
Which isn't a good thing...

"Be a man" is my response If you can't deal with such a situation don't cause it yourself in the first place. It takes two to tango and if you are involved, be a man and take some responsibility dammit.

This is why makoto is such a jerk that shouldn't be saved...he crossed the line when he "accepted" kotonoha AGAIN and fcked sekai's head up by snogging kotonoha in front of her.Geez...
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Old 2007-12-17, 20:56   Link #14
ironbomb
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Good thing I wasnt the only feelings this way, would have pissed me off if everyone sided with Matoko.
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Old 2007-12-17, 22:02   Link #15
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Heh, the weird thing is that I'm not siding with Makoto at all. The 'guy' part of my brain is applauding the harem lead who actually got some, but the rest of me agrees that he is scum. I pretty much agree with everything you guys are saying. (Well...I still think the girls' reactions are exaggerated and a bit psycho.)

My whole point here is that he doesn't deserve to die. Do you really think he deserves to die for what he did?

He's just really weak willed. From the beginning to the end, he went with the flow or went with his hormones. He avoided confrontations whenever possible. At the start, he was your typical nice guy harem lead, so in a way, it's a story about how 'power' can corrupt a person.
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Old 2007-12-17, 22:49   Link #16
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Does he deserve to die...yes. I am not saying that every guy that cheated in there life or had sex with more than one mate should die but the pain he caused several of the girls and getting on pregnant and avoid the consequences, thats not a guy is it? During those situations, its do or die....guess he ended up dying..good riddance.
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Old 2007-12-17, 23:21   Link #17
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Wow, really? You really think he deserves to die? That's kinda scary. You think Makoto's actions puts him on the same level as murderers and serial rapists?

It's HIGH SCHOOL! These are high school relationships. Most of the relationships you see on the series are very short. The cheating is 'cheating', not CHEATING (as in marriage and life long pledge). I think the relationships were very short. I don't remember if the series gave much information about the timing. It did make it seem like Makoto and psycho girl only went out on a few dates.

The only adult thing is the pregnancy situation (which may or may not even be real). He didn't handle it very well, but in no way does it merit a DEATH SENTENCE??!?!
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Old 2007-12-18, 00:15   Link #18
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Wow, really? You really think he deserves to die? That's kinda scary. You think Makoto's actions puts him on the same level as murderers and serial rapists?

It's HIGH SCHOOL! These are high school relationships. Most of the relationships you see on the series are very short. The cheating is 'cheating', not CHEATING (as in marriage and life long pledge). I think the relationships were very short. I don't remember if the series gave much information about the timing. It did make it seem like Makoto and psycho girl only went out on a few dates.

The only adult thing is the pregnancy situation (which may or may not even be real). He didn't handle it very well, but in no way does it merit a DEATH SENTENCE??!?!
I'd like to start an argument on whether it is right to kill murderers and serial rapists, but never mind.

Just because he's in high school does not mean he can go and start having sex with over 20+ girls. It's not even cheating... He's just going around having sex. It's basically serial rape except they let him (so serial sex).

Although he didn't deserve a death sentence (if we use the "logical" way to think), most people want him dead no less. If they want him dead, he'll die, no matter what court has to say about it.
Plus, mah, Makoto wouldn't have stopped his "having sex with every female possible" until he died. Would you like him to make every single female relative of yours pregnant?
Best remove a little existence for the sake of the world's greater good.

Of course, after saying all of this, I would not say that he should have died or it was right to kill him. But what he did deserved death... Almost everyone says it.
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Old 2007-12-18, 00:24   Link #19
ironbomb
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Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
Wow, really? You really think he deserves to die? That's kinda scary. You think Makoto's actions puts him on the same level as murderers and serial rapists?

It's HIGH SCHOOL! These are high school relationships. Most of the relationships you see on the series are very short. The cheating is 'cheating', not CHEATING (as in marriage and life long pledge). I think the relationships were very short. I don't remember if the series gave much information about the timing. It did make it seem like Makoto and psycho girl only went out on a few dates.

The only adult thing is the pregnancy situation (which may or may not even be real). He didn't handle it very well, but in no way does it merit a DEATH SENTENCE??!?!
Neglecting your respondsibilties leads to accidents. For him to not show any concern about HIS child, I would rate that as a murderer. What he done, is indirectly killing the kid and the one baring it off.
1- Not providing support for the woman baring the child, she and putting more burden on her.
2- Having sex with other girls AFTER he knew about her pregnancy.
By causing her trouble, jeopardising her health which means possibility the kid...A murderer kills someone quick while in Makoto is slowly TORTURING Sekai to death. So he puts two peoples lives in danger just because he acts in such a manner...
That is only considering what he has done to Sekai and not Kotonoha.....
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Old 2007-12-18, 02:06   Link #20
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I'm actually in a bit of shock right now about how people truly thinks that he deserved to die. DEATH!! DEATH?!?!??! I don't believe in the death penalty under any circumstance, but I guess you guys are willing to kill far more people than just murderers. Where is the line? Are you guys willing to kill adulterers who cheat and end up destroying their families?

Not once did he force anyone to have sex. He didn't rape anyone. So don't even bring that word into this discussion. Every single time he had sex, it was consensual.

As for the pregnancy situation, he's a frigging teenager! He's not an adult. He's 16, 17? Teenage pregnancies happen all too often, and do you really think that the boys always stepped up to the plate and provided support. NO WAY. And you are saying that every single one of these BOYS deserve death for shirking the responsibility of dealing with a child when they are a teenager?

Makoto is a kid. A KID. He was basically overwhelmed by the completely new situation of having all these girls available to him. Then he got thrown the pregnancy situation, at which point he totally ran away. Considering he's a child, that's not surprising.
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