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Old 2007-12-18, 02:25   Link #21
ironbomb
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Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
I'm actually in a bit of shock right now about how people truly thinks that he deserved to die. DEATH!! DEATH?!?!??! I don't believe in the death penalty under any circumstance, but I guess you guys are willing to kill far more people than just murderers. Where is the line? Are you guys willing to kill adulterers who cheat and end up destroying their families?

Not once did he force anyone to have sex. He didn't rape anyone. So don't even bring that word into this discussion. Every single time he had sex, it was consensual.

As for the pregnancy situation, he's a frigging teenager! He's not an adult. He's 16, 17? Teenage pregnancies happen all too often, and do you really think that the boys always stepped up to the plate and provided support. NO WAY. And you are saying that every single one of these BOYS deserve death for shirking the responsibility of dealing with a child when they are a teenager?

Makoto is a kid. A KID. He was basically overwhelmed by the completely new situation of having all these girls available to him. Then he got thrown the pregnancy situation, at which point he totally ran away. Considering he's a child, that's not surprising.
I dont think I ever mentioned the word "rape" or "rapist in my posts because I know its consenual but EVEN THEN it doesnt justify itself to take advantage of the chances.
Adulterers, gosh dont get me started with them....thats a totally different topic for now, Ill keep it simple...Punishment...
My point was he was jeopordazing the life of Sekai and the kid by not taking care of her and even go as far as increase the stress/burden she already holds. When I was said support, I wasnt thinking financial support, guess I should have made that clear. I was talking about mental/emotional support which he totally just neglected, not just neglected but instead put more on her. Not ever boy is as stupid as him to cause such a ruckus and get himself into such a situation, matter of fact MAJORITY wouldnt.
One more thing, even if he does have to provide financial support, I dont see that is something out of his ability to do. I was working when I was 15...Then, I would assume he is fairly wealthy or well-off considering he has his OWN apartment at his age...geez..wealthy kids...doing w/e they wants and think they can get away with it..
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Old 2007-12-18, 02:37   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
I'm actually in a bit of shock right now about how people truly thinks that he deserved to die. DEATH!! DEATH?!?!??! I don't believe in the death penalty under any circumstance, but I guess you guys are willing to kill far more people than just murderers. Where is the line? Are you guys willing to kill adulterers who cheat and end up destroying their families?

Not once did he force anyone to have sex. He didn't rape anyone. So don't even bring that word into this discussion. Every single time he had sex, it was consensual.

As for the pregnancy situation, he's a frigging teenager! He's not an adult. He's 16, 17? Teenage pregnancies happen all too often, and do you really think that the boys always stepped up to the plate and provided support. NO WAY. And you are saying that every single one of these BOYS deserve death for shirking the responsibility of dealing with a child when they are a teenager?

Makoto is a kid. A KID. He was basically overwhelmed by the completely new situation of having all these girls available to him. Then he got thrown the pregnancy situation, at which point he totally ran away. Considering he's a child, that's not surprising.
Not 100 years ago, child-rearing at younger than 16 wasn't uncommon. Saying that "it's expected" because of his age, is clearly not going to cut it. He may not have murdered or raped, technically, but he did utterly destroy the lives of both Sekai and Kotonoha. I won't even go into all the other sexual partners. Regardless of intent (hardly pure), their insanity is the direct consequence of his irresponsible actions. I will never condone "an eye for an eye" as universal policy. However, 2 lives for 1 is already selling both Sekai and Kotonoha for cheap.
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Old 2007-12-18, 04:13   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fervor View Post
I'm actually in a bit of shock right now about how people truly thinks that he deserved to die. DEATH!! DEATH?!?!??! I don't believe in the death penalty under any circumstance, but I guess you guys are willing to kill far more people than just murderers. Where is the line? Are you guys willing to kill adulterers who cheat and end up destroying their families?
Depends in what context...
Have you ever thought of makoto wanting to repent? do you think he even feels remorse? or how about regret? sadness?

The only sadness I saw in him was when he can't get his sex fix...do you think a man like that should be excused?

Lets say sekai didn't kill him - do you think he would really have a long lasting relationship with kotonoha, because I don't. From what he has done so far I can clearly see him doing the same thing with kotonoha AGAIN.

I wouldn't normally want to kill someone, correct, but to a slim who has no hope of being human anymore, I wouldn't be hard for me to pull the trigger
Quote:
Not once did he force anyone to have sex. He didn't rape anyone. So don't even bring that word into this discussion. Every single time he had sex, it was consensual.
Again, because he doesn't have the guts to rape someone, doesn't make her actions justified. He is just as sex horny as everyone else but give that he had more guys, he would have raped someone

This is a weak excuse even in a real life situation.

"I am innocent because the girls jumped onto me not the other way round"

What the heck is that? He has the same amount of responsibility as the gril who jumped onto him for what happens next. Yet he never felt bad about his actions (in fact he felt rather pleased with himself) <----- this is what I am pissed off about.
Quote:
As for the pregnancy situation, he's a frigging teenager! He's not an adult. He's 16, 17? Teenage pregnancies happen all too often, and do you really think that the boys always stepped up to the plate and provided support. NO WAY. And you are saying that every single one of these BOYS deserve death for shirking the responsibility of dealing with a child when they are a teenager?
He is adult enough to do adult things...geez...

And again it depends on the situation for me. Most of the probably don't deserve anything near death but there are always those rare cases where it's "you just never learn" and teens who use their "age" as an excuse to get away with doing bad things...

Basically scums of the earth :3
Quote:
Makoto is a kid. A KID. He was basically overwhelmed by the completely new situation of having all these girls available to him. Then he got thrown the pregnancy situation, at which point he totally ran away. Considering he's a child, that's not surprising.
How did he go from being a teen to a kid?

He ran away because he didn't want any responsibility of being an "adult" - Funny how he then tried his best to avoid sekai like the snake that he is ^^

If you can't handle it, don't do it in the first place. Seriously if he says that he didn't know how the baby came about then he should read up the main objective/reason to sexual intercourse (and if he did have to look up...I will LAWL so hard ).
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Old 2007-12-18, 04:24   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
The only sadness I saw in him was when he can't get his sex fix...do you think a man like that should be excused?
I certainly do not think he should be excused. I don't think he should be executed either.

It has nothing to do with his age. He didn't kill anyone and he didn't rape anyone. I wouldn't wish a death sentence on an adult for Makoto's crimes either. If you were to kill everyone who ever cheated on their girlfriend or became a deadbeat dad, you'd be executing a whole lot of people.

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Basically scums of the earth :3
Oh please. "Scum of the earth" gets a whole lot worse than that. He wasn't married to the girls he cheated on. He didn't push Saionju down the stairs in hopes she'd lose the baby. There are far more horrible things he could have done before you call him "scum of the earth." He's just rather callous about the consequences that his "fun" has on the girls he was messing with.
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Old 2007-12-18, 04:31   Link #25
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Okay, death was going too far, but he definitely needed to be punished somehow.
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Old 2007-12-18, 04:34   Link #26
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Okay, death was going too far, but he definitely needed to be punished somehow.
I can agree with that 100%.
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Old 2007-12-18, 05:09   Link #27
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Sadly what punishment can he recieve? It's not like the police would do anything. It all boils down to him, being a free man, without being taught a lesson.

Death maybe going too far but given sekai's condition, she couldn't have helped it.

If it was my case I probably wouldn't have ended up killing him either (though I say I would kill him, I'm not the type to actually do such a thing).

Few broken limbs at least though
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa View Post
Oh please. "Scum of the earth" gets a whole lot worse than that. He wasn't married to the girls he cheated on. He didn't push Saionju down the stairs in hopes she'd lose the baby. There are far more horrible things he could have done before you call him "scum of the earth." He's just rather callous about the consequences that his "fun" has on the girls he was messing with.
Yet some would still excuse such an act - this world is crazy ^^

There are many scums - he is just an example of an emotional scum in my books.
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Old 2007-12-18, 08:56   Link #28
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If it was real life. No.

However, in regards to the anime, yes. His death was delicious.
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Old 2007-12-18, 09:55   Link #29
Julius Firefocht
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I think Makoto deserves to die because he achieved something that I would never be able to replicate in real life.

There, I've said it.
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Old 2007-12-18, 13:48   Link #30
ironbomb
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa View Post
I certainly do not think he should be excused. I don't think he should be executed either.

It has nothing to do with his age. He didn't kill anyone and he didn't rape anyone. I wouldn't wish a death sentence on an adult for Makoto's crimes either. If you were to kill everyone who ever cheated on their girlfriend or became a deadbeat dad, you'd be executing a whole lot of people.
You dont have to stab someone to kill them. His actions where enough to kill Kotonoha and Sekai, even the baby she was baring. Ill keep saying this over and over if I must, by neglecting his responsibilities of being a father and boyfriend he is slowly killing Sekai off. He might not have "directly" STABBED her but every action he has done/taken SIMILAR to stab to her heart/body. What Matoko doing might even be consider worst than a murderer since he is SLOW TORTURING her to death.
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Old 2007-12-18, 14:16   Link #31
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You dont have to stab someone to kill them. His actions where enough to kill Kotonoha and Sekai, even the baby she was baring. Ill keep saying this over and over if I must, by neglecting his responsibilities of being a father and boyfriend he is slowly killing Sekai off. He might not have "directly" STABBED her but every action he has done/taken SIMILAR to stab to her heart/body. What Matoko doing might even be consider worst than a murderer since he is SLOW TORTURING her to death.
Let's make something very clear. Never, ever did he intend to kill anyone. He didn't intend to torture Sekai either. There is no intent at all. It's not the same thing. How Sekai felt is a consequence of his insensitivity and selfishness, but you cannot argue intent.

If you stab someone with a knife, there is very clear intent to kill. The only question is whether it's premediated or not.

It is the biggest difference in the world. Makoto did not intend to rape, kill or torture anyone. You cannot argue otherwise. No court or judge would even punish him for what he did.

Are his actions ethically and morally questionable? Of course. But there is no law anywhere that says that any of his actions should be punished.
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Old 2007-12-18, 14:46   Link #32
ironbomb
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Let's make something very clear. Never, ever did he intend to kill anyone. He didn't intend to torture Sekai either. There is no intent at all. It's not the same thing. How Sekai felt is a consequence of his insensitivity and selfishness, but you cannot argue intent.

If you stab someone with a knife, there is very clear intent to kill. The only question is whether it's premediated or not.

It is the biggest difference in the world. Makoto did not intend to rape, kill or torture anyone. You cannot argue otherwise. No court or judge would even punish him for what he did.

Are his actions ethically and morally questionable? Of course. But there is no law anywhere that says that any of his actions should be punished.
You are right that he had NO intentions fo torturing her but did his actions do it anyways? YES. Just because you dont intend to do something does not mean it wont cause pain to someone else, in this case by going out with Kotonoha the second time killed Sekai inside.
Killing the kid off, One may argue if there was a kid or not, but asking for a abortion, I truly cant see fitting under any circumstance...Dont wanna get into the whole abortion, y or n arguments..so Ill stay away from this.
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Old 2007-12-18, 14:58   Link #33
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Whether what he did was intentional or not is still up to the viewers to judge, but while some of his actions might be either intentional or just pure ignorance, there have been a few cases where he did intend to cause harm (emotionally).

One obvious event that sticks out like a smashed up thumb...the scene where he kissed kotonoha in front of sekai. I honestly cannot believe that he didn't have a clue on how sekai would feel so in this case I would say that his intent on causing emotional harm to her was on purpose.
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Old 2007-12-18, 15:07   Link #34
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One obvious event that sticks out like a smashed up thumb...the scene where he kissed kotonoha in front of sekai. I honestly cannot believe that he didn't have a clue on how sekai would feel so in this case I would say that his intent on causing emotional harm to her was on purpose.
Well of course he intended to hurt her. That kiss has a clear objective of convincing Sekai to stop approaching him about the baby. He hoped she'd be hurt enough not to bother him ever again.

It was very calculated. It was also not an extraudinary action. Lots of people do things much like this every day. Usually the "tortured" individual picks themselves back up and copes with it. Despite the unfortunate plethora of deadbeat dads and male sluts in this world, almost all girls somehow manage to keep their sanity instead of going blank-eyed and stabby.
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Old 2007-12-18, 15:23   Link #35
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I have changed some of my opinions of the characters since I last evaluated them, so mind you that this post might contradict what I have said before. Also, people use the term "scum of the earth" rather lightly. Many others do far worse things than Makoto and you don't even need examples to figure that out. I guess the term is relative.

Watching his death may have been fun and all, but I think the death in general was extreme. It reminds me of all those stories where the blatantly evil antagonists die and suddenly with them gone it solves everybody's problems, except none of the characters in School Days fit in either "good" or "evil" groupings. They're all morally ambiguous, and while none of them are innocent, he did display some guilt in episode 12 of what he had done - even though he didn't even bother to do anything to fix it (you could vaguely compare Makoto to a chain smoker/drinker who knows what he's doing is apparently wrong, but can't break out of the habit easily). Considering that kiss he made in front of Sekai though, I'm probably giving him more credit than he deserves if I think that he's making a good effort to break out of it.

Anyway, no, I don't really think death was appropriate. Makoto needed to be taught a lesson - something nobody around him even bothered to do. The people around him know he's up to no-good, but the only thing Sekai ever did was ruin his dinner and gut him. Kotonoha was in her own little world, the milquetoast. Since Makoto himself is older than a child yet not anywhere near an adult, the other girls are about as much to blame as him.
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Old 2007-12-18, 15:48   Link #36
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I am scared people would actually sentence him to Death! for this. We are not talking some form of punishment here (which he definitely deserves), we are talking about taking a life away! What does it solve ? As immature and inconsiderate as Makoto is, and as much as i would be among the first to beat some sense in to him and make him take responsibility, he does not deserve to die. Death sentence is reserved for the worst of criminals at some places of the world. Do you honestly believe Makoto is at their level ? Honestly ?

In no way is his actions justifiable, and i would gladly see him get his just deserts. But death is not what he deserved. In the end it boils down to cheating and being severally inconsiderate towards two girls. But that does not amount to a death sentence. He has not broken any laws, if anything Taisuke stepped much closer (actually he crossed) to this line.
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Old 2007-12-18, 15:57   Link #37
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Originally Posted by tebahpla View Post
I just saw the SD anime and all i an say is that its one of the most effed up "normal" animes.

i could accept killing in such animes with tentacles and magic stuff or sci-fi themes but its a normal school with some effed up characters. though i liked the end that makoto really desereved what he got. i still have to give him credit for making it with at least 7 or 8 chicks. he also did it 4 some. 3 girls?? what a win. he deserved to die.
man people keep saying the death penalty should be removed. I guess people's true nature is being an arse saying that he deserves to die. Hey there are criminals in the world the deserve to die more than him.

If you are in makoto's shoes do you want to die
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Old 2007-12-18, 16:20   Link #38
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One obvious event that sticks out like a smashed up thumb...the scene where he kissed kotonoha in front of sekai. I honestly cannot believe that he didn't have a clue on how sekai would feel so in this case I would say that his intent on causing emotional harm to her was on purpose.
I actually think this was deliberately put in by the writers to make the viewers hate him more and try to justify the killing. For me, this action is very much out of character for him. He is extremely non confrontational and it just doesn't fit. It's pure shock value, IMO.

In any case, the only times he did something intentionally to hurt someone was when he was forced in a direct confrontation to say or do something. If he wasn't forced, he always ran away and delayed action.

I do think that he did eventually become fairly deliberate and calculating in continuing his playboy behavior. I also think that he did start to wake up at the end when he did finally say that psycho girl was his girlfriend.

This whole event did not take all that much time. There a lot of changes that happened in a very short period of time. That's also why I think it quite possible that Makoto could change back into a nice decent person.

Sex can be like a drug. Sexual addiction is a real thing. People who get addicted do some pretty crappy things to get their fix.
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Old 2007-12-18, 16:27   Link #39
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I don't belive he deserved to die for what he's done. I belive he deserved a beating CLOSE to death, but not death itself. If he had reped a girl, then yeah......please kill him (forget that, I'll do it myself). But like this, no...he did not deserve to die.
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Old 2007-12-18, 16:36   Link #40
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@skyfall so its alrite to kill unborn childs, aka abortion? Giving him the right to suggest and actually want to see it through, killing the child inside Sekai, he is killing someone. For just that, I personally dont condone "an eye for an eye" since like Ghandi stated, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind". I cant see how anyone could suggest abortion when they want to "act" mature. If you are willing to have sex, you should be mature enough to take it all the consequeneces that come with it. So after you get someone pregnant, you go and kill the child that you made....sounds so much like the wealthy kids in modern day eh? Oh, we cant deal with this...kill it.

@fervor, does it matter if it was deliberately put it? If it shows it, it there, done. I dont think its out of character because, look what he stated when Otome came. He said the pregnancy wasnt "his fault". The only thing he was thinking was, yes I am getting pussy tonite instead of the problem at hand.
I do agree though, that the only time he stated anything to hurt anyone DIRECTLY was forced but by name means did he have to do such things...
He felt no remorse for ANY of his actions at the end which is more reason for his outcome...showing some sign of wrongdoing would have been the least he could have done...
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