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Old 2007-12-16, 08:40   Link #41
Tokkan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
What you were saying about "young Lelouch" actually makes a lot of sense. It sounds as if they're trying too hard to sound like something they ain't, and that is generally what makes most dubs fail; they all sound "fake".
Oi, my point was that every young boy voice that's done by a woman in anything animated, regardless of whether it's in English or Japanese, always sounds like she's trying too hard to sound male.

Also, I respect that you don't like dubs, but your post is enough for me to dismiss you as a right-wing fanatical anti-dub zealot and warrant a space on my ignore list. Especially this quote:
Quote:
I've never understood why one would dub over the original voices, unless the target audience is either below reading age or simply retarded.
I mean, this is beyond the point of ridiculous.
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Old 2007-12-16, 08:46   Link #42
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Hmm, Lelouch and Clovis were tolerable, C.C...just no, and Suzaku...was there. I'll probably be avoiding the dub, one of my favorite parts of the original was Lelouch's voice.
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Old 2007-12-16, 08:59   Link #43
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I'd pay you to watch Air, but when taking Tokkan's observation into account, it'd probably be a waste of money. Seriously, the "sub-FANATIC" thing really gets on my nerves. You make me think you're going to shoot me for watching a dub ("Like oh my God, you're not watching it in Japanese?! HERETIC!"). If you can't tell, I'm a severe hater of bigotry. It's poisoning the human race.

Seriously, it's not the 80's anymore. These people are business men and women now, not some random company trying to make a quick buck.

And like Westlo said, this is going on AS. I've heard one way to kill the chance of an anime selling on DVD is to not dub it. Kill the ratings by making it subbed on AS. Suddenly those big screen TVs become useless as you're only paying attention to the bottom of the screen.
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Old 2007-12-16, 09:05   Link #44
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Tokkan: Yes, I understood that that was what you were referring to. Perhaps I should have explained myself a bit further... that is of course a general problem when the character being voiced is in fact much younger than the actual VA. And like you said; that is a problem for both English and Japanese dubs. What I was thinking (no matter what I wrote) was that the same problem goes for all characters (imo) in the general English dub... they all sound "fake", as opposed to most Japanese dubs where only child characters are haunted by that problem. And, hands down... of course there are a lot of Japanese VA's that perform below acceptable level. The difference in quality is still incredibly huge to me, but I guess you don't agree. Obviously.

And about that last quote... perhaps I should have proofread the text before posting, cause I get the feeling that you think I meant that those watching dubs are either below reading age or retarded. That was not what I meant at all. I actually have a friend who prefers dubs, and I really don't think of him as a retard.

What I did mean was that those responsible for material aiming for the target audience that Geass is aiming for getting dubbed is, in my honest opinion, treating their own customers as if they couldn't read. I mean, dubs exist only to let those unable to read in their own language a chance to experience and enjoy whatever is being shown. Or am I really wrong about all this? Perhaps I've simply assumed that everyone around me is as picky as I am when it comes to this.

Sirth: Yeah, I ordered all four Air-volumes at the same time in order to get them all like, a day after the release of the final volume, and they were delivered 2 days after the release. Made me really happy. =)

I gave the dub a chance (2 episodes)... like I always do every time I buy anime on DVD, but it was completely unwatchable to me. I could simply not enjoy the show due to the dub, and I do love Air. I've rated less than 1% of the anime I've seen as "10/10", but Air is one of them.

*sigh* This is generally (referring to the overall discussion) why I never post in dub-threads... since I always go on about how inferior they are in my opinion to the original work, and people often take it as if I'm criticizing them, not the dub. That was, once again, not what I meant here... even though I (as I read the line that Tokkan quoted) perfectly understand why you might've come to that conclusion. The reason I posted a very short comment on the voices available in the trailer was that they seemed "even worse than usual" to me. Perhaps this ain't really worse than the average dub. I might not be the best person to tell. =)
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Old 2007-12-16, 09:15   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
I mean, dubs exist only to let those unable to read in their own language a chance to experience and enjoy whatever is being shown.
Not "unable to read" at all... in fact, it's actually because they prefer to not have the read the dialogue. Not because they're unable to.

It's always down to a matter of preference, but I guess you can't understand that. Fact is, the vast majority of anime fans are the casual fans who enjoy dubs and prefer them to subs. The hardcore fans like us who come to forums, fansites and news sites are quite likely to have more than a few people who are the opposite of that, preferring subs over dubs... but typically, the hardcore fanbase is always outnumbered by the casual fanbase. There are, of course, hardcore fans who prefer dubs over subs as well. Though they're typically not as outspoken as the "subbies".
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Old 2007-12-16, 09:16   Link #46
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I think you missed my "Suddenly those big screen TVs become useless as you're only paying attention to the bottom of the screen" comment.

I also find dubs more memorable than subs. Probably because I find my mother language more understandable than my second.

And a sure fire way of getting discredited is by looping a whole bunch of intelligent people into the retarded category just because, God forbid, they prefer to watch something in their mother language, instead of reading their mother language for something animated in some form or another.

It's starting to seem like you're just plain insulting anyone that has anything to do with dubs: voice actors, the companies, and the people that watch them. I don't loop all sub-watchers into one category for no reason (I have a friend that watches subs primarily, yet found a dub I found a little awkward to be good.).

I assure you, from what I've heard of at least Bosch and Yuri, they do good work. Yuri is a phenomenal actor, and Bosch does enjoy what he does. I'm sure he'll have fun with a hero that's not exactly stereotypical. Add in a couple of other greats (Liam and McConnihie), and it'll be a fine dub. They are worse, I assure you.
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Old 2007-12-16, 09:22   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
What I did mean was that those responsible for material aiming for the target audience that Geass is aiming for getting dubbed is, in my honest opinion, treating their own customers as if they couldn't read. I mean, dubs exist only to let those unable to read in their own language a chance to experience and enjoy whatever is being shown. Or am I really wrong about all this? Perhaps I've simply assumed that everyone around me is as picky as I am when it comes to this.
Now you are just going off. Dubbing is necessary in anime period, because anime characters can't talk. ALL anime are dubbed. It's only a question of which language gets dubbed first, and obviously a question of quality. (Some anime got the English Dub made first before the Japanese version.)

Why are you treating the existence of dubs like it is some sort of personal insult? You are like that vegetarian I met who tried to convince me that my own desire to eat meat is an abomination to her, even though it has nothing to do with her.

We can't make you like what you don't like, but saying dubs insult your intelligence is plainly an insult to somebody.

(p.s. I watch subs when an anime is new. But I buy DVDs for the dub, because I want to see how a story is reinterpreted when done well. Code Geass had an unconventional Dub crew in Japanese, and the same selection process from the Japanese Director was used to form an unconventional Dub crew in English. Think of it like a piece of Classical music played by two different orchesdras; the music sheets are the same, but there is room for artistic expression.)

I had heard plenty of bad English dubs in my time, but dubs themselves aren't evil or stupid. If given only one choice, I will chose Subs. But Dubs are a bonus that I don't have a problem with. Indeed, I am half-tempted to purchase the German edition of the Black Lagoon anime just because it sounded so cool.
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Old 2007-12-16, 09:55   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post

Why are you treating the existence of dubs like it is some sort of personal insult? You are like that vegetarian I met who tried to convince me that my own desire to eat meat is an abomination to her, even though it has nothing to do with her.
Haha, point taken! =)

But I must say that I feel more like... uhm, an elephant at a nightclub... stepping on virtually every toe available. ^^

On a serious note though... judging by the way you guys reply to my ramblings I kind of get the feeling that I might be a bit hard on them dubs. It's not like I've tried the dub for every anime I've seen. Tell you what... when Geass is released I will give the dub an honest chance, without being an ass about the outcome. Feel free to point me in the direction of some dubs that are actually good too, since I assume that they're ranging from good to bad... just like everything else does.
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Old 2007-12-16, 10:24   Link #49
Westlo
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The only dub that has really impressed me in the last few years is Hellsing Ultimate, give that a try. Watching it in Japanese is like watching Rurouni Kenshin in English, even if it's a good performance it just doesn't feel right.

90% of the episodes I watch on DVD now are the subtitled version, I generally give shows an ep or two to check the quality of the dub before reverting back to Japanese. Last thing I watched in English was Hajime No Ippo Episode 7, lasted 3 minutes before going back to the Japanese track, awful dub.
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Old 2007-12-16, 11:48   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
90% of the episodes I watch on DVD now are the subtitled version, I generally give shows an ep or two to check the quality of the dub before reverting back to Japanese. Last thing I watched in English was Hajime No Ippo Episode 7, lasted 3 minutes before going back to the Japanese track, awful dub.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I end up doing it as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
The only dub that has really impressed me in the last few years is Hellsing Ultimate, give that a try. Watching it in Japanese is like watching Rurouni Kenshin in English, even if it's a good performance it just doesn't feel right.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll be sure to check it out. The best part is... I've actually not seen the Hellsing OVA's yet, so this might be the perfect time for me to allow an English dub to make "the first impression".
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Old 2007-12-16, 12:08   Link #51
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You guys shouldn't really complain about the dub. Goro Taniguchi picked out the voices so we can't really judge them...well, yet. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. Just saying.
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Old 2007-12-16, 12:21   Link #52
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Originally Posted by FireChick View Post
You guys shouldn't really complain about the dub. Goro Taniguchi picked out the voices so we can't really judge them...well, yet. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. Just saying.
Yeah is no such thing as Japanese being auto better. Look at Batman:TAS. And for the whole dub < sub comments I got 2 words for ya, Cowboy Bebop. I like the Death Note dub and when I first heard the trailer it was awful, but the voices changed and it has gretly improved, so nothing is final.
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Old 2007-12-16, 12:32   Link #53
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Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
Haha, point taken! =)

But I must say that I feel more like... uhm, an elephant at a nightclub... stepping on virtually every toe available. ^^

On a serious note though... judging by the way you guys reply to my ramblings I kind of get the feeling that I might be a bit hard on them dubs. It's not like I've tried the dub for every anime I've seen. Tell you what... when Geass is released I will give the dub an honest chance, without being an ass about the outcome. Feel free to point me in the direction of some dubs that are actually good too, since I assume that they're ranging from good to bad... just like everything else does.
Well, I'm sure we respect your thoughts and such. But it's when you sincerely say (twice so far) that dubs exist for those who can't read, it kind of throws us off and makes us a bit annoyed. Seriously, how can anyone believe such a thing. I'm not so sure companies dubbed the more mature anime for the adults that can't read their own language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireChick View Post
You guys shouldn't really complain about the dub. Goro Taniguchi picked out the voices so we can't really judge them...well, yet. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. Just saying.
Just because the Japanese director hand-picked them doesn't mean that it'll automatically be great. Someone out there is bound to complain, whether they know this information or not, because the characters still aren't speaking Japanese.
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Old 2007-12-16, 12:48   Link #54
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Originally Posted by CJL13 View Post
Yeah is no such thing as Japanese being auto better. Look at Batman:TAS. And for the whole dub < sub comments I got 2 words for ya, Cowboy Bebop. I like the Death Note dub and when I first heard the trailer it was awful, but the voices changed and it has gretly improved, so nothing is final.
well, it's still true that original's tend to be better than localizations, simply becuse most of the time the 2nd dub actors aren't going to get the level of direction from the the original production staff as the 1st set did. (which usually means that get almost none, save some notes on paper. >_>)
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Old 2007-12-16, 16:56   Link #55
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Yeah is no such thing as Japanese being auto better. Look at Batman:TAS. And for the whole dub < sub comments I got 2 words for ya, Cowboy Bebop. I like the Death Note dub and when I first heard the trailer it was awful, but the voices changed and it has gretly improved, so nothing is final.
I kinda agree with you there. True, voices can be a little shallow but they improve later on. Besides, I don't care how ANY dub sounds, not even CardCaptors (sorry). Even though I watch japanese versions of anime, I don't mind any English dub since I'm an American and all. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. Like I said, bad dub voices can improve. They just need a little time. I'm sure this dub will blow you all away eventually (sorry if I'm being an idiot). But this is my opinion.
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Old 2007-12-16, 18:55   Link #56
Sirth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
On a serious note though... judging by the way you guys reply to my ramblings I kind of get the feeling that I might be a bit hard on them dubs. It's not like I've tried the dub for every anime I've seen. Tell you what... when Geass is released I will give the dub an honest chance, without being an ass about the outcome. Feel free to point me in the direction of some dubs that are actually good too, since I assume that they're ranging from good to bad... just like everything else does.
Nicely done. We probably were a little more aggressive about it since there just seems to be a lot of people like that around who will just bash dubs to high heaven, and nitpick even the best of them for the sake of being nitpicky and finding any reason, even the most insignificant, that not even the biggest fans care about, just to "prove" all dubs are "bad." Add on a dose of not listening to anyone that says it isn't so bad, is great, or has reasons to say they have high faith it'll be good.

And if you want a suggestion, I go back to my Air TV comment. Most people found it better than decent in the beginning (not much to nit pick), but were blown away by the third disk.

Frankly, a lot of people use Cowboy Bebop as an example of one that must be watched in English. Keep in mind that the same people, albeit different actors, will be behind Code Geass. All the same, I find that if you aren't judgemental and just enjoy the show, you really won't care about the dub.
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Old 2007-12-16, 20:26   Link #57
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Cheers Sirth, I'll do that. I mean, I really love Air, so I should be able to watch it over and over again. Last time I switched back to the Japanese audio halfway through the second episode since, you'll probably find this stupid of me by the way, I was afraid that I was going to ruin my overall impression of the show. I'll give it an honest chance though.

And to everyone who opposed me; I've been thinking "how come I can't stand the dubs?", and I think I have an idea to be honest. If your native language is English, then it's perfectly understandable to not be used to watching subtitled stuff since 99% of all movies and TV-shows are either British or American. There simply is no need to use subtitles. I don't speak English since Swedish is my native language. Everything I ever watched on Swedish TV was subbed since we never dub anything here. Ah, okay... if the spoken language was in fact Swedish there were no subs of course, and we do obviously dub Disney-movies since younger kids can't read. =)

Anyhow... what I'm getting at is that I'm more than used to subtitles, since they've always "been there" up until the day when the DVD set us free and allowed us to turn the subs off. I don't experience that I miss out on whatever is going on on the screen though, since my eye spends about one second on the text every time it pops up. I guess that is something that we get used to over the years of watching subbed TV. Even though this is how I experience subtitles, I can really put myself in the shoes of an American viewer, who virtually never had to worry about not understanding the spoken language (before falling in love with anime ofc ^^). I can actually understand (and I should've thought about that earlier) how subtitles can be a really annoying (but sometimes necessary) part of the experience to those who are not used to them.

Okay, this is only the beginning of my little analysis. Sorry for going off-topic with this entire discussion that I caused today, but hey... it is somewhat related to the dubbing of Geass. ^^

The other thing that makes me prefer subs (in general) is the fact that the characters of a show is incredibly important to me, and every aspect of them. The characters and the corresponding VA's ability to mediate emotions are, in many cases, more important to me than the actual story itself. This might put me in a small (and possibly very weird) minority, but that's how it is. I already said this before, but I strongly think that the Japanese seiyuus (generally speaking of course) are better at mediating emotions/delivering "honest", trustworthy interpretations of the characters at hand. I'm not saying that everyone should agree with me, cause I know some probably don't (even though I earlier today honestly believed that everyone thought this way). Anyhow, this... all this, in combination with the fact that I grew up watching subtitled entertainment, is probably the reason why I strongly prefer subs over dubs. Like I said earlier... my eyes barely spend any time at the bottom of the screen so I don't feel that I "miss out" at all.

Okay, I've never "searched my feelings" concerning this matter before, but I think that this is what it ultimately boils down to. Anyhow... I certainly confess to your "accusations"; I just might be way too hard on the dubs, and perhaps I should give them a better chance before dismissing them as "crap"... the way I did today, although I must say that especially Kallen's "scream", C.C.'s voice and young Lelouch's line made a really bad first impression. Although the guy responsible for the editing of the trailer should probably shoulder some of the blame... it was really a bad piece of work. Noticed how "cheesily" they managed to supply the customer with some completely unprovoked and out-of-the-blue fanservice? Really cheap all in all and that, in combination with the voices, made me comment.
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Old 2007-12-17, 10:37   Link #58
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Just checked out the trailer, and concerning the voices they're not all that bad. Ofcourse as already mentioned could be better, I may consider checking out 1 of the episodes in dub for a full opinion when I get the chance.
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Old 2007-12-17, 10:40   Link #59
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Originally Posted by darkchibi07 View Post
i can't watch anymore O.O;
even with people syaing that it isn't THAt bad... i stilld isagree.. i hate dubs!
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Old 2007-12-19, 04:59   Link #60
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I just say...we can't assume much.

We heard CC's large speech. So we can flame her all we want.

But the Rest are...questionable.

Lelouch: " Well then " Two words is not enough for me to flame or give my congratulations to him.

Same applies to Suzaku.

There's alot of Char's left out of this, so before you all hate this cast or series because of the dub...

Just wait till the first ep, then debate.
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