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Old 2007-12-11, 18:19   Link #2021
Kristen
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Well, I managed to stumble across this anime at least twenty times whenever I was looking for suggestions, or whenever I was just looking through animes which seemed kind of interesting. And that's exactly what this anime was... interesting.

In a way, I feel like the nudity could have been done away with. It was really just fanservice for the male audience. Eventually, I just kind of learned to ignore it, but it was strange for the first few episodes to have so much of it. It almost seemed a bit forced... Kind of like Yuta's "Would you like to suck my breasts" comment in one of the early episodes...

The violence was gruesome. Since the main theme of this anime was violence, it wasn't quite as bad as some of the romances I've seen. Like, I found this show to be less unsettling than School Days, because violence was to be expected in here. The only scene, other than the first 8 minutes, which really got to me was when number 35 destroyed her foster mother, since they showed the rib cage bursting out of her body.

The last episode did get me tear up, which was a plus. But the biggest plus goes to the plotline and the original concept. The guy who was writing this really knew what he was talking about, so it made it all the better.

I really don't see them making a second season of this to finish the adaptation. Especially since this was made in 2004, it's a little too far for a second season. And I REALLY hope the manga will be completely scanlated before it gets liscenced.

I'd give this anime a 7/10. It would have been an 8 without the nudity.
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Old 2007-12-11, 18:57   Link #2022
Elfgirlblood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stjeppe View Post
BlaBlaBla

my impression is she's alive..as Nyu or that persona when she was younger (cant remember name, sorry)

no problems with the company since they can only follow the bloodtrace or rely on other diclonius to detect her but they can't since she's lost her horns so isn't a diclonius anymore
I believe she lived too. Its got very much the whole 3x3 eyes feel to it. I think she would have wanted to die. But with the fact she loved kohta so much and the fact that the evil scientists are still very much alive and functioning. Lucy would really be their only defence as I sure they would still want nana dead and the others dead as witnesses, and after all who would visit them at the end? Not some by them selves anyways, unless it was Lucy.
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Old 2007-12-11, 20:34   Link #2023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
In a way, I feel like the nudity could have been done away with. It was really just fanservice for the male audience.
I disagree. Elfen Lied just wouldn't be what it is without it and the violence. Because it... without it you wouldn't get the full picture. If anything was covered up... well, it wouldn't seem as... real. If you know what I mean. You know everything that's happening so you can get the full blast of it.

Also.... SEVEN OUT OF TEN!?
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Old 2007-12-11, 20:57   Link #2024
Kristen
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Originally Posted by Reno View Post
I disagree. Elfen Lied just wouldn't be what it is without it and the violence. Because it... without it you wouldn't get the full picture. If anything was covered up... well, it wouldn't seem as... real. If you know what I mean. You know everything that's happening so you can get the full blast of it.

Also.... SEVEN OUT OF TEN!?
Well, violence is a given. But the nudity probably shouldn't have been in there, in my opinion. I mean, it was effective in showing the brutal abuse these creatures had to go through. But I think that should have been sacraficed so as to make the anime easier to watch. I mean, maybe replace the nudity with some bruises and scars.

And yes, 7/10. Higher or lower than you expected?
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Old 2007-12-11, 21:36   Link #2025
gaguri
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You and I share a very similar opinion. Shocking nudity and violence instantly grabbed me from the beginning, but it was obvious that it was getting blatant throughout the series. One thing Elfen Lied desperately needed was subtelty, but unfortunately, the potentially powerful story was smeared by all the blatantly forced violence, nudity and other type of fanservice. There are numerous other minor flaws as well, but that was my biggest problem with the series. Overall I would personally rate this series 6/10, redeemed only by somewhat touching last episode, and rather unusual ending.
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Old 2007-12-12, 06:19   Link #2026
Elfgirlblood
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Originally Posted by Reno View Post
I disagree. Elfen Lied just wouldn't be what it is without it and the violence. Because it... without it you wouldn't get the full picture. If anything was covered up... well, it wouldn't seem as... real. If you know what I mean. You know everything that's happening so you can get the full blast of it.

Also.... SEVEN OUT OF TEN!?
I think certain people dont seem to understand excatly the point of this anime.
The fact the a pet dog was beaten to death, with blood splattering on young kids. A girl being sexually abused by her step father that kinda portrays the strong emotions that this anime holds. I believe that the point of this anime was to tell a strong,shocking,tragic story without nudity and voilence it would not be the anime it is. Elfien lied in its full unforgiving state is perfect.

Censor it and your lower its free unrelenting power. There are many many animes that you could censor but would it really make it better? The scene in 'arc the lad' where he strangles his best friend? The scene in 'Higurashi no naku koroni' when keichi beats some girls to death? etc. Take away those scenes or reconstruct them and what would you be left with? The same anime with half the emotion gone.

I would give elfien lied 10/10 because I cannot think of anyway I could improve this. It has style,depth,shock factor,deep love,imagnative deaths and all packed with those beautiful intros/endings. I am sure the directors and the writer lynn okamoto are happy with the final results.
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Old 2007-12-12, 08:44   Link #2027
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You don't have to show everything so blatantly in order to get the full effect. It works in the case of films like Shindler's list, in order to portray the bestiality of men as it is. Elfen Lied does it poorly and in bad taste. Higurashi comparison is a bad example because they used it much more effectively. Subtlety would have been much more effective. Take Now and then here and there for example, where almost any violent (or rape scene) scored much stronger effects without showing anything, only invoking powerful things in our imagination.

I guess it's me who's missing this wonderful and creative point of this show, and I for one, don't mind missing out on those 'terriblly depressing feelings' one bit, when watching some poorly drawn bodies being chopped off in 'imaginative deaths'(thats a new one), and an underaged girl doing it with her step-father in a doggystyle.
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Old 2007-12-12, 09:23   Link #2028
Kristen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfgirlblood View Post
I think certain people dont seem to understand excatly the point of this anime.
The fact the a pet dog was beaten to death, with blood splattering on young kids. A girl being sexually abused by her step father that kinda portrays the strong emotions that this anime holds. I believe that the point of this anime was to tell a strong,shocking,tragic story without nudity and voilence it would not be the anime it is. Elfien lied in its full unforgiving state is perfect.

Censor it and your lower its free unrelenting power. There are many many animes that you could censor but would it really make it better? The scene in 'arc the lad' where he strangles his best friend? The scene in 'Higurashi no naku koroni' when keichi beats some girls to death? etc. Take away those scenes or reconstruct them and what would you be left with? The same anime with half the emotion gone.

I would give elfien lied 10/10 because I cannot think of anyway I could improve this. It has style,depth,shock factor,deep love,imagnative deaths and all packed with those beautiful intros/endings. I am sure the directors and the writer lynn okamoto are happy with the final results.
Watch Higurashi again. When he beats the girls to death, they only show a shadow of it. When Rika stabs herself with that knife, they mostly only show the blood spattering on Mion (Not spoiling it.)
Spoiler for Minagoroshi-hen:

But my main issue isn't the violence. I understand that to be the premise of the show.

To be honest, the rape scenes I thought were done nicely. But things didn't have to be pornographic. Like, if you want Lucy to be naked in the first 9 minutes, fine. Film it from her back instead of her front, and when filming the front, don't film anything lower than her shoulders. And don't her randomly opening the door in that bath scene to show her breasts. That was nothing but fan service, and incredibly stupid in my opinion.
This show could have EASILY done without the nudity and gotten the same point across. When I say nudity, I mean things that would change it from PG-13 to R or X. Implied nudity is fine. Explicit was not needed.
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Old 2007-12-12, 09:33   Link #2029
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Meh.... I agree with Elfgirlblood completely. It was excactly what I was trying to say. But it doesn't look we'll ever convince each other. So I suggest we drop this.
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Old 2007-12-13, 03:05   Link #2030
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I didn't really think it was there for fanservice. At some points it may have been there for shock factor, but otherwise I felt that it may have had representations. Perhaps it was there to bring the viewer to consider humaneness, and to realize that even though they're being called a separate species, they're still ultimately human.
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Old 2007-12-20, 03:30   Link #2031
vorpal83
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Just watched it in 2 days, and I think that much violence shown on screen is necessary. Subtlety's good most of the time, but for a series like this, the spectator's really 'there' in the picture, and the director forces you to see everything that's going on in the scene. It forces you to see exactly what Lucy does, and strips away a lot of the sympathy you would have for a tragic 'heroine' like her, cos you can't have any illusions about the monster she is.


As for the nudity, there was just so much of it that somehow, I felt almost nothing looking at it. Don't get me wrong, I'm a healthy male and all. If anything, it gave me a warped image of purity, like it was a human being stripped of all other pretences, a twisted virgin/beast.
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Old 2007-12-20, 04:05   Link #2032
innominate
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Pink haired girls with horns ripping each other's limbs (and clothes) apart...

ahem;

But I do agree, with many others, that the violence and nudity was necessary to put forth the horror element in the horrifying way.

I know how video games portray violence in the adrenaline-inducing manner, or how some shows aim to evoke sexual feelings,

but I didn't think Elfen Lied set out to do the same.

To me, it's exactly because you don't want to see it that they push it into your face all the more. Fanservice, on the other hand, as service to the fans, does the converse: giving the audience what they want to see.

so nope, won't classify the scenes as fanservice. =/ In fact, implicit nudity might be worse- the directors aren't trying to hide anything. The fact that I felt heavily qualmed by such explicit and uneasy scenes probably meant the directors succeeded in that aspect.

vorpal83 spoke my mind, really. Welcome to the forums. =)
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Old 2007-12-20, 05:52   Link #2033
Whitemoon648
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Well i watched the series few years ( was it 2 to 3 years ago). At the begining i was kinda disgusted with the viloence. So i was so disgusted that i didnt even realize how good of a story it had.


Now that 2 to 3 years has passed, i watched the series few days ago. Since i already knew what was coming and knew about the violence i wasnt shocked and was able to focus on the story and it was an awesome , tragic story.


So my point is if you dont like this anime, there can be few reason:


1) You have watched the anime at an age that isnt suited for you. This is a rated R show.

2) you were shocked with violence scenes ( as i was 2 to 3 years ago), so much that you couldnt even comprehend or pay attention to epicness of the series.

3) you hate tragic animes .


So I would have raten it a 7 back then, but Now i will rate it 10 easily.


As for lucy, i doubt she died or got herself killed. She did say something about in 5 years almost every one will be like her. My guess is she is going to try to stop that. Well if i would write a fan fiction about it , that is how i would write it.
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Old 2007-12-20, 07:46   Link #2034
gaguri
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That looks like fun, let me list something too.

If you happen to think the violence and nudity was used in good taste in this anime, there can only be one reason:

1. You have no taste

I guess you need to be more creative then, if you can only think of those 3 reasons. I know way too many people who didn't like Elfen Lied for numerous reasons other than the three listed above. This is just one example, which I agree almost word by word. (apologies to the reviewer for linking it without permission).
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Old 2007-12-20, 08:33   Link #2035
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
That looks like fun, let me list something too.

If you happen to think the violence and nudity was used in good taste in this anime, there can only be one reason:

1. You have no taste

I guess you need to be more creative then, if you can only think of those 3 reasons. I know way too many people who didn't like Elfen Lied for numerous reasons other than the three listed above. This is just one example, which I agree almost word by word. (apologies to the reviewer for linking it without permission).
no i am not talking about having a taste for nudity and viloence ( which i dont). But because Elfen lied was made the way it was, it brought up its fullest potential as being tragic and sad.

Think about it this way. Which story will have more effect on you?
1) main character goes through 1 or 2 problems ( not that harsh eaither) in the story. And then at the end, main character achives happiness
2) main characters goes through many ( Lets say 5 to 6) problems during the story and all of them are heart breaking problems/harsh problems. and then at the end , main character achieves happiness.

Most people would agree the 2nd selection would have more effect on them.


Elfen lied follows the same concept . Although i Absolutely dont agree with violence ( the way it was) being the only factor in making Elfen lied as good as it is, i think that was one of the factors.

There were many things that made Elfen lied so great. And to say only violence and nudity made Elfen lied this great doesnt serve it justice.
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Old 2007-12-20, 13:38   Link #2036
Reno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorpal83 View Post
As for the nudity, there was just so much of it that somehow, I felt almost nothing looking at it. Don't get me wrong, I'm a healthy male and all. If anything, it gave me a warped image of purity, like it was a human being stripped of all other pretences, a twisted virgin/beast.
Yeah same here! It just seems so normal now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Well i watched the series few years ( was it 2 to 3 years ago). At the begining i was kinda disgusted with the viloence. So i was so disgusted that i didnt even realize how good of a story it had.


Now that 2 to 3 years has passed, i watched the series few days ago. Since i already knew what was coming and knew about the violence i wasnt shocked and was able to focus on the story and it was an awesome , tragic story.


So my point is if you dont like this anime, there can be few reason:


1) You have watched the anime at an age that isnt suited for you. This is a rated R show.

2) you were shocked with violence scenes ( as i was 2 to 3 years ago), so much that you couldnt even comprehend or pay attention to epicness of the series.

3) you hate tragic animes .


So I would have raten it a 7 back then, but Now i will rate it 10 easily.


As for lucy, i doubt she died or got herself killed. She did say something about in 5 years almost every one will be like her. My guess is she is going to try to stop that. Well if i would write a fan fiction about it , that is how i would write it.
How old WERE you when you first watched it? Cos I'm quite surprised. I mean I was 14 or 15 when I first saw it and, to be honest, I don't see HOW you can watch it without the story slapping you in the face.
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Old 2007-12-20, 20:20   Link #2037
gaguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
no i am not talking about having a taste for nudity and viloence ( which i dont). But because Elfen lied was made the way it was, it brought up its fullest potential as being tragic and sad.

Think about it this way. Which story will have more effect on you?
1) main character goes through 1 or 2 problems ( not that harsh eaither) in the story. And then at the end, main character achives happiness
2) main characters goes through many ( Lets say 5 to 6) problems during the story and all of them are heart breaking problems/harsh problems. and then at the end , main character achieves happiness.

Most people would agree the 2nd selection would have more effect on them.
Actually I would strongly argue for 1). Looking back at all the memorable characters I can think of, they all had one major issue they had to deal with, and seeing them striving to deal with that issue was why they were so memorable. Sure, you can have several different issues going on at the same time, but a good development always have one major issue, where the rest of minor issues fall under that one big umbrella. It's hard enough trying to have an impact with just one issue, almost always the shows fail trying to do too much.

You can't just have a good drama by ramming everything you can think of because that's just stupid.

Quote:
Elfen lied follows the same concept . Although i Absolutely dont agree with violence ( the way it was) being the only factor in making Elfen lied as good as it is, i think that was one of the factors.

There were many things that made Elfen lied so great. And to say only violence and nudity made Elfen lied this great doesnt serve it justice.
I don't know what you're trying to say here. Firstly, as far as I could see, Lucy had one major issue; conflict between his desire to kill every men based on their harsh treatment towards her, and his love for Kouta. All the little details concerning her killing people, crying, kissing Kouta, etc. fall under that category.

Secondly, I never attacked violence and nudity for being there, just its presentation, which I've gone into way too much details to repeat myself.
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Old 2007-12-21, 09:48   Link #2038
changeup
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Seriously, whoever showed you this anime a few years back is a criminal!!!

Not sure even now it's a good idea for you to watch it...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno View Post
Yeah same here! It just seems so normal now.



How old WERE you when you first watched it? Cos I'm quite surprised. I mean I was 14 or 15 when I first saw it and, to be honest, I don't see HOW you can watch it without the story slapping you in the face.
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Old 2007-12-21, 11:16   Link #2039
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Heyy that's my brother you're talking about there. And, yeah, maybe you're right... I was too young to cope with it. Maybe I am now.... it's only about a year and a half later- wait, are you talking to me or Whitemoon?
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Old 2007-12-22, 22:35   Link #2040
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First time I saw the anime I was like "Holy shit, that's awsome!"

Now I watch it, and when the blood spills I'm almost like "meh, it could have been more gruesome... somehow..." which is wierd because I rarly rarely even watch gruesome things. Conditions for things like that is what creeps you out, just pure killing is quite easy to handle, IMO.

Nudity, it was realistic people. This is not a PG13 anime, it is an R. There is no point to give test subjects clothes when they are just going to be torn apart anyway. And Kouta and his cuz just have raging hormones, haha, but no seriously...

The manga's art is a bit different, and it's not as great but it continues, and is quite interesting. Also somewht more gruesome, though less detailed in the blood and all.

By the way, am the only one who thinks the blood often looks too red, and unfitting.

But still this is in my top 10 anime list easily.
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