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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 27 25.47%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 30 28.30%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 17.92%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 13.21%
6 out of 10 : Average 10 9.43%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.89%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.94%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.83%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-12-20, 09:13   Link #121
stjeppe
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good episode, discovered some new edgesto the characters, saw some devestation, some politics so this episode get a 7 from me.
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Old 2007-12-20, 13:20   Link #122
Eviltape
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Everything was epic. 9/10, a bit on the strange side with the Hallelujah/Allelujah thing going on. Glad he faced his past, and congrats on his 20th birthday. :P
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Old 2007-12-20, 13:41   Link #123
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikimasu View Post
I agreed, we should stop call him 'Allah', let just not carried away in our writing

peace
Not that I don't understand, but anyone in a Gundam forum who watches 00 would have to be on the special-side to not know that that's an abbreviation for a named Gundam chcaracter...The context of the passage will tell you immediatley I'm not talking about the muslim translation for God...
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Old 2007-12-20, 15:54   Link #124
seiks
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But wouldn't a shortening be "Alleh"? ... Though I use Al, and the most win is calling him Amen to Hal's Hallel.
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Old 2007-12-20, 16:05   Link #125
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I just finished this episode on Crunchyroll and...my god Allelujah! Hallelujah REALLY has reached a new level of creepy! But...is it me or did that kid that chibi Hallelujah corner sound like Jun from Rozen Maiden? Speaking of that...awww! Allelujah so cute when he's little!
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Old 2007-12-20, 16:36   Link #126
Demongod86
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I gave this a little more thought and is it me, or is Hallelujah the general human subconscious in that when it comes down to it, we know we come first and do whatever we see as necessary to achieve our goals, and if it comes to us or our morals, eventually our morals will give way.

Hallelujah seems to be creepy because that is the unabated human subconscious IMO...that selfish take-what-you-want type, and the reason we all act like Al rather than Hal is social constraints rather than us being generally chummy folks.
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Old 2007-12-20, 18:33   Link #127
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
I gave this a little more thought and is it me, or is Hallelujah the general human subconscious in that when it comes down to it, we know we come first and do whatever we see as necessary to achieve our goals, and if it comes to us or our morals, eventually our morals will give way.

Hallelujah seems to be creepy because that is the unabated human subconscious IMO...that selfish take-what-you-want type, and the reason we all act like Al rather than Hal is social constraints rather than us being generally chummy folks.
you mean he's Id from Xenogears?
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Old 2007-12-20, 20:00   Link #128
Demongod86
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MOre or less.
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Old 2007-12-20, 21:39   Link #129
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
I gave this a little more thought and is it me, or is Hallelujah the general human subconscious in that when it comes down to it, we know we come first and do whatever we see as necessary to achieve our goals, and if it comes to us or our morals, eventually our morals will give way.

Hallelujah seems to be creepy because that is the unabated human subconscious IMO...that selfish take-what-you-want type, and the reason we all act like Al rather than Hal is social constraints rather than us being generally chummy folks.
It seems to me that (based on whatever they did to him) Halleh is the real personality...Alleh is just an escape or doorway if you will from the primal nature of his true self...His true self (The lab-rat brain-raped soopa-soldier) is the "dog-eat-dog" psyco-maniacal being...So in a backwards kinda way the "evil" subconcious created a kind, yet heavy-hearted personality which is the only way to keep the true-self at bay (until he is ultimatley needed, hence him being the true-self)...I think the Alleh that will be most productive would be a complete 50%-50% combination of the 2...As it stands it seems the light side was created to keep the dark side at bay, however not the other way around...So it's not a case of the light side being the host, but rather it's just a dam that stops the river of "darkness" from overflowing...

Atleast I think...
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Old 2007-12-20, 22:29   Link #130
Demongod86
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As is the case with all human beings =)
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Old 2007-12-20, 23:51   Link #131
dreamless
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As is the case with all human beings =)
at least according to Sigmund Freud's theory of id, ego, and super-ego
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Old 2007-12-21, 01:49   Link #132
Ascaloth
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Watched the Conclave-Mendoi sub of Episode 11.

A very good episode, actually. Not much mecha action, but that hardly matters since the character background development of Allelujah takes center stage. And I'd say they handled it very well indeed.

No qualms in a 10/10.
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Old 2007-12-21, 02:30   Link #133
Skyfall
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
As it stands it seems the light side was created to keep the dark side at bay, however not the other way around...So it's not a case of the light side being the host, but rather it's just a dam that stops the river of "darkness" from overflowing...

Atleast I think...

I don't think thats the case. Halelujah said this is like "back then" - that Alelujah needs him to take care of things he can't bring himself to do. This comment would not make sense if Halelujah had been the main personality at first. Even if we assume he somehow developed the "kind" part of his personality (though i can't imagine why in the super soldier center), the comment still wouldn't make sense - that Alelujah is the one that needs him to take care of things now, just like back then.
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Old 2007-12-21, 08:57   Link #134
wingdarkness
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I don't think thats the case. Halelujah said this is like "back then" - that Alelujah needs him to take care of things he can't bring himself to do. This comment would not make sense if Halelujah had been the main personality at first. Even if we assume he somehow developed the "kind" part of his personality (though i can't imagine why in the super soldier center), the comment still wouldn't make sense - that Alelujah is the one that needs him to take care of things now, just like back then.
The light side THINKS he's the real personality when he's really the gate to keep his true-self at bay...I'm saying all the little things Haleh tells Alleh is more or less a dillusion (Unless you truley beileve the 2 are 2 equal people housing the same body--which I don't)...If I was trapped out of my body by a psycotic-break I'd say anything to be released...Alleh may very well win the battle for the body, but that doesn't mean he's the true personality, just the result of the fractured personality...
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Old 2007-12-21, 11:54   Link #135
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
The light side THINKS he's the real personality when he's really the gate to keep his true-self at bay...I'm saying all the little things Haleh tells Alleh is more or less a dillusion (Unless you truley beileve the 2 are 2 equal people housing the same body--which I don't)...If I was trapped out of my body by a psycotic-break I'd say anything to be released...Alleh may very well win the battle for the body, but that doesn't mean he's the true personality, just the result of the fractured personality...
Still, it doesn't sound like Hal was displeased about Al's existence. He had never threatened to get rid of Al or anything like that, so it doesn't sound like taking over the body full-time was his goal. Instead, Hal appear to be angry for being "used", in that Al summons him whenever an immoral task needed to be done.

What Hal wanted isn't for Al to turn evil; he wanted Al to stop acting like he is some sort of saint. Hal is supposedly the hitman Al sends out to keep Al's own hands clean, and we all know both the hitman and the person who hired him are to be considered murderers.

EDIT: Just watched the subs again. Hal made it pretty clear he is annoyed at Al's behavior. When Al refused to fire, Hal asked why he decided to start the mission to begin with if he wasn't going to follow though. And when Al claimed he did it because he is a Gundam Miester, Hal asked if being a Gundam Meister makes it okay to kill people. Hal kill because he want to, and make no excuses. While Al push responsibilities to either his job description or Hal.
Essentially, Hal can see that Al made half-baked decisions like Joining CB and decided to attack the research facility. But It was always Hal who ended up having to finish the job Al started. Hal just want Al be more honest with his own dark side.

Hal might be the bad half, but that doesn't automatically make Al the good half.
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Old 2007-12-21, 13:01   Link #136
Dean_the_Young
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Another thing mostly un-talked about at the moment; this episode had Sergei being informed that the HRL was starting to secretly work with the Union about CB. Now that it's been shown that no one nation can beat CB and take all the rewards, even when they have surprise and great preparation, it's time for teamwork. In the nature of game theory in a three-way struggle, two sides will team up, get the benefit (if they can), and leave the third out of the game and rewards.
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Old 2007-12-21, 15:16   Link #137
wingdarkness
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@VCV - All sound points, I'm just saying based on their interaction with one another it seems to me Halleh was trapped in the sense he couldn't breakthrough unless ultimately needed or by quantum interference. Before Soma appeared Halleh wasn't even prevalent, so now that he is I believe he'll say anything not to be trapped again (and that includes all of his conversations with Alleh, which in effect are pure delusions)...The essential point is that Halleh (however you want to view it) is trying to keep his side of the personality alive, and if it means empowering his otherside than sobeit…
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Old 2007-12-21, 16:43   Link #138
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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@VCV - All sound points, I'm just saying based on their interaction with one another it seems to me Halleh was trapped in the sense he couldn't breakthrough unless ultimately needed or by quantum interference. Before Soma appeared Halleh wasn't even prevalent, so now that he is I believe he'll say anything not to be trapped again (and that includes all of his conversations with Alleh, which in effect are pure delusions)...The essential point is that Halleh (however you want to view it) is trying to keep his side of the personality alive, and if it means empowering his otherside than sobeitů
Still, Hal made the point that he kills mostly for the purpose of survival. And beside the small incident when he mentally linked with Soma the first time, Hal only took control of the body when his immediate safety is at risk.

And a point appeared to be made that Al seemed to get his control back relatively easily. This doesn't appear to be because Al was somehow "in control", but because Hal always voluntarily hand back the body after a battle. This fits what Hal claimed, which is that he is only interested in self-preservation and little else. If Hal was genuinely interested in controlling the body permanently, he would have been far more active up to this point.

And seriously, what WAS Al planning to do, bringing missile launchers to the Spacestation? If he wasn't going to blow up the building with the kids inside, he was most certainly carrying the wrong equipment. This entire mission was Al's idea, including killing all these kids, so Hal certainly has the right to lecture him.

It's a little like going to a "peaceful demonstration" carrying a backpack full of Molotov cocktails. I can claim to be peace-loving all I want, but what I carry would betray my true intentions. Al, when crunch time comes, may be a coward. But his intentions were not pure. He started everything this episode, but could not take responsibility for what he has made himself do.

Hal is definitely not to blame here. If Al was having second-thoughts at the last second, he clearly should not have organized this assault to begin with.
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Old 2007-12-21, 17:06   Link #139
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Well, there's something to be said for both sides, IMO.

True, Al is no saint. He made his bed, and Hal only forced him to lie in it.

OTOH, it's never too late to stop yourself from doing something criminally stupid...
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Old 2007-12-22, 03:26   Link #140
seiks
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Haha, yeah, that's true. I tend to give more credit to Al than I should, but it seemed like he thought about not blowing the kids up when he started getting a "psychic" link with them... He sorta realized they were alive too, like him, in the same situation. Hal's points were... not very endearing. His major arguments were that there's no point in trying to save the kids because they'd never have normal lives and that they didn't want to be saved.

Neither one is very sound and neither one has much to do with what Al did or did not come to do.

Of course, the whole split personality thing seems like some form of escapism/blame shifting. Deep down, Al wanted to live (which is pretty normal, most people are like that). Some part of him was willing to do anything for it. Most of him couldn't accept that. Add a little mind screwing and... yeah.

One point is that the scientist guy says that Hal appeared after the Glial cell enhancements/treatment. As in, before the whole thing where Al and others were sent to drift through space (to their deaths?). That kind of destroys the theory that Al created Hal to escape the blame of killing all those other kids.

@wingdarkness: Thanks for changing how you call them. I'm not sure why it was bothering me, but I appreciate it.
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