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Old 2007-07-17, 18:55   Link #81
JagdPanther
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Okay, so it took me almost a week to actually find the time to watch SSS. >_<

All I have to say is... Wow. Another amazing GitS installment.

I think the previous discussions have pretty much covered everything.

Man, it makes me sad that this is the last foreseeable installment of SAC. Definitely one of my favorites series of all time.

Of course, I probably want some more novels even more. I LOVE the three novels that came out over the past two years.

Makes me kinda wanna work on my GitS fic more right now, but I'm still in denial about the distaste for OC fics in the fanfic world (okay, in my defense, they're not entirely OC fics that I write). >_>

And OMG. The "Uchikomatic Days" special was soooooooooooooooooo cute! ^_^

Anyway....

I <3 Motoko.

*puts his GitS:SAC2 1/7 Motoko figure on his shelf*

^_^
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Old 2007-11-17, 21:26   Link #82
karasuma
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Ha... Good movie. Batou is so hopelessly in love with Motoko.

* Oh, she took my car but I am so happy to see her that I am speechless
* she is considering coming back to section 9. Forget togusa's development for all I care.
* Should I touch her shoulder..... Yes, I did it...

Pretty cute.
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Old 2007-11-17, 23:21   Link #83
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Ha... Good movie. Batou is so hopelessly in love with Motoko.
Well, Batou's fascination with Motoko is always a recurrent theme in the anime adaptations of GitS (in both of Oshii's movies and in the Stand Alone Complex saga). I personally like how it's never blatantly stated but it's still an important element in the series. Though I found it being more important in both of Oshii's movies.
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Old 2007-12-20, 15:29   Link #84
Stranger night
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Hi, I don't understand the end of this anime.

In my opinion I think that the Puppet Master isn't able to have a complete union with Motoko, because we see that she did'nt lose her personality. Is it possible? I mean... maybe in the end the Puppet Master leaves Motoko. He is the only one that knows her very well.. and he pretend to be also a part of her.
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Old 2007-12-23, 08:22   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger night View Post
Hi, I don't understand the end of this anime.

In my opinion I think that the Puppet Master isn't able to have a complete union with Motoko, because we see that she did'nt lose her personality. Is it possible? I mean... maybe in the end the Puppet Master leaves Motoko. He is the only one that knows her very well.. and he pretend to be also a part of her.
He didn't pretend.

Puppeteer and Motoko Kusanagi are two parts of a larger intelligent entity that was borne out of Motoko's incorporation of multiple AI and human personalities during her travels on the net.

They are independent from each other, which is why she didn't realize at first that he was doing it all behind her back, but together they are part of a group consciousness that the Major has evolved into.

You can think of it as a sort of an upgraded version of the cyberbrain hub that Kuze operated together with the refugees and Puppeteer operated together with noble rot senior citizens. Each part of the cyberbrain hub retains its individuality, but together they form a gestalt, a sum that is greater that its constituent parts.

The Major is that gestalt. Her Puppeteer part and her Motoko part worked apart from each other, but both followed a sort of general philosophy of right/wrong and what-is-to-be-done that the Major ascribed to.

It might be a bit confusing how Motoko is both aware and non-aware of what's going on with her, but it makes perfect sense if you have read the Ghost in the Shell 2: Man-Machine Interface manga by Masamune Shirow.

Solid State Society doesn't follow MMI verbatim, but SSS is sort of made up from themes from the Innocence movie (Batou's storyline) and the MMI manga (Motoko's storyline). Read MMI, it explains Motoko's group consciousness in greater detail.

I think Kamiyama assumed that the audience is familiar with his work, but also with Oshii's and Shirow's work. And while they are not absolutely necessary to understand what's going on in SSS, they are a good source of further material on the subject of SSS.
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Old 2008-04-17, 07:39   Link #86
Stranger night
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Sorry, I'm Italian, can you use a simpler english?

So.. why the Puppet Muster lives Motoko? Is because there isn't a complet and totally union with the mind of Motoko? I don't understand this aspect of the end..
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Old 2008-04-17, 13:25   Link #87
Forbin
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Everytime Motoko surfs the web she leaves a little bit of herself on the servers. Since she surfs the web constantly and uses of up 7 different bodies / personalities this 'little bit' became an artificial 'ghost'. It then became 'alive' and did a bunch of things it thought the original Motoko would've have done if she thought of it.

It also means if she surfs the web too much it may make another 'ghost'.
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Old 2008-04-17, 14:01   Link #88
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Originally Posted by JagdPanther View Post
Man, it makes me sad that this is the last foreseeable installment of SAC. Definitely one of my favorites series of all time.

^_^
what?!?! nooooooo u gotta be kidding me!!! T_T can someone send me a confirmation link to put the nail in my coffin?

Best GITS movie IMHO....10/10

Oh and I would be so very grateful if someone could tell the name of the song that is played when the major and bato and co. start to invade the building the foreign minister was in? It starts at 1:21:44....I'm begging someone help! T_T
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Old 2008-04-17, 14:55   Link #89
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Basically, this is the last of SAC you'll be seeing. But as all things go, you never know if there are going to be plans for a future series or another SAC OVA. SSS may have left things open enough for a 3rd Gig, but considering everything that happens in SSS, it'll have to be something else in order to continue where it left off.
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Old 2008-04-17, 18:14   Link #90
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I thought it fairly open-ended. Perhaps there was a little bit more evolution than by the end of either of the TV series, but there was no paradigm shift similar to the end of the original manga that would preclude some kind of new story in the vein of the same kind of police procedural/techno-thriller.

I wouldn't be surprised if I.G rolled out a new series sometimes in the future. They don't have to, certainly, but GITS is financially a sound and proven investment, so they just might.
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Old 2008-04-17, 19:55   Link #91
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I'd like to see some animation based on Man-Machine Interface, but I probably know it's a bit of a wishful thinking. Man, that thing is confusing as hell.
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Old 2008-04-17, 20:55   Link #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger
Oh and I would be so very grateful if someone could tell the name of the song that is played when the major and bato and co. start to invade the building the foreign minister was in? It starts at 1:21:44....I'm begging someone help! T_T
I believe that was Replica, track 2 of the OST.
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Old 2008-04-17, 23:34   Link #93
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o thank you so much *bows in gratitude*
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Old 2010-10-04, 04:06   Link #94
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so Hi, I just picked up this thread direct from wikipedia, I just thought I'd chime in with my interpretation of the GitS world so far and it's depiction of a possible future of humanity

oh and apologies for waking of a 2 years and a half thread but I don't know where else to post this as I am not a regular visitor of this forum

the idea of the tachikomas sending off the collective of their memories on the net, and that this is enough for the major to reconstruct their ghosts
means that anyone who posted the sum of their being on the net, lives on on the net after their death

over time people connected on the nursing net died but their being stayed on the nursing net hub

after a while they probably came to term with their immortality but then realised that to keep on influencing the outter world they would need a way
to aquire ressources to buy influence in the real world

since most people in GITS japanese society lives a very isolated life in the physical world many (most) die without heir and they lose their ressources to the state who think that because they no longer live in the physical world they don't have a right to the ressources

the puppet master mechanism was their invention to keep a hand on those ressources, at the same time they believe they are doing the kids a favor by rescuing them from the high level of domestic violence death (30% of the youths ? how is that happening !!)

since they are immortal they created a new society that is solid state (completely information based beings and society)

also they want to take over the japanese (world?) governement to ensure their freedom and survival (also the fact that they are were people go when they die now)

this also means that anyone with a cyberbrain can become immortal and their identity/ghost/soul can live on the net and not just assimilated as previously thought (like motoko said when she got headshot on the skyscraper top floor by that helicopter that hid in front of the setting sun)

that's why the solid state society "must" become the new governement, they are everyone who has lived, they will be more numerous than people currently alive at some point

(but then will they enslave the living for the sole purpose of maintaining the systems that are the life support of the solid state society)

will there ever be a war between the living being, the natural human vs the solid state society for control ?

could the society eventually create a way to create new ghosts without the need for humans ?

if they no longer need humans ... then what ?


so the major got hacked by an agent of the solid state society, he explained the solid state society to motoko, but it didn't seem that he was offering her a choice about joining and helping the solid state society ?

did she accept or is she trapped in that thought maze forever ? (and that the last scene with batou wasn't really happenning, it was all in her mind lost in a maze ?)


also if the major was both the major and the agent of the solid state society.. she was hacking herself ? so she was having an internal conflict with herself and one side of her hacked the other ? that's a bit preposterous

is her ghost slowly coming appart, getting assimilated or become insane ? or did she spawn a new ghost ? (and then that new ghost hacked/killed it's own mother ???)

is that how the solid state society will now reproduce and no longer need humans ?

hmm if she's been "killed" (removed from the net and "boxed") that would mean they are not immortal afterall ?



'shit is confusing !!
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Old 2010-10-04, 22:07   Link #95
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Old 2012-08-22, 14:00   Link #96
LaniGuy
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2 years after the last post.... I actually watched this series as it came out, but never saw the last 4 episodes of 2nd gig until now and watched the movie SSS... Shodan, just read a majority of what MrProphet says, he is correct in his analogy... also the major is not stuck in some cybernetic dream, she did make it out and was talking with Batou. She came to the conclusion of how her ghost is manifesting via the net with every dive she does, and like what was mention before, she dives with multiple bodies so her ghost trace is large. Overall this was a great series, one of my fav anime's ever. Even though it make you think... think really hard, it has great meaning and great visual pizzazz.
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Old 2012-11-12, 11:02   Link #97
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I've just got home from the 3-D premiere of Solid State Society here in Singapore. The movie will officially open here on Nov 26, 2012, just a few days ahead of the premiere of 009 Re:Cyborg on Dec 1, 2012.

Much more importantly, Kenji Kamiyama was present in the theatre. He was in Singapore over the weekend to promote 009 Re:Cyborg at Anime Festival Asia (AFA). He rarely travels outside of Japan because of his busy schedule, so we were extremely privileged to have him answer a few questions after the screening.

Unfortunately, there was only enough time for four questions. I wasn't taking notes, so I'll jot them down from memory:

Q) A technical question regarding the use of 3-D techniques in the re-mastered version of Solid State Society versus the full 3-D techniques used in 009 Re:Cyborg.

A) It has been about six years since he worked on Solid State Society. At the time, Production I.G did not yet have the equipment and software for 3-D animation. So, the 3-D version we just watched was re-mastered from the 2-D version (we had to wear the 3-D glasses to get the holographic effect). 009 Re:Cyborg, on the other hand, was done completely in 3-D. The animation approach was totally different, as would be the effect.

Note: Kamiyama had said earlier at the AFA that many in the anime industry were impressed by the quality of 3-D animation in 009 Re:Cyborg. In terms of technical achievement, the movie can already be considered a landmark achievement.


Q) Will there be a sequel to the movie and, if so, will Kamiyama be the director?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
Basically, this is the last of SAC you'll be seeing. But as all things go, you never know if there are going to be plans for a future series or another SAC OVA. SSS may have left things open enough for a 3rd Gig, but considering everything that happens in SSS, it'll have to be something else in order to continue where it left off.
A) Kamiyama said he's been asked the same question many times by fans everywhere and, unfortunately, the answer remains the same: there are no plans for a 3rd Gig. He wouldn't mind being the director again but, as of now, no one's even thinking of drafting such a contract, let alone have him sign one.


Q) Is there any chance that he'll work again with Yoko Kanno in future projects?

A) That's an unexpected question. The simple answer is that both he and Kanno are very busy with a string of projects and so they haven't had a chance to collaborate on a project again. It's not that he doesn't want to, but rather that both of them simply can't find an empty slot in their hectic schedules.


Q) I noted that the one thing that stood out from the Stand Alone Complex series and Solid State Society was the way he re-interpreted many scenes from the manga and the original Hideaki Anno Ghost in the Shell movie. I asked if he could talk about the amount of creative freedom he had to adapt the series.

A) Kamiyama said Solid State Society was an original concept that he and his team created without consulting the manga creator, Masamune Shirow. In essence, they wanted to explore what happened to the Major following the events of 2nd Gig and they developed a completely new story based on their agreed concepts.


That's roughly it. I did take a few photos of the Q&A session but, unfortunately, I did so with my camera phone, so the pictures turned out crap. I don't mind so much, as I already had a picture with him at AFA during his autograph session, plus each of us who attended the premiere received an autographed poster, so all-in-all I'm a happy bunny.

As for the movie itself, 3-D doesn't make much of a difference. They did redo the opening credits to showcase the 3-D effect but, other than that, the visual experience was not significantly different.

What's different, on other hand, is myself and my older perspective. It's very surprising how differently I absorb and interpret the movie today, compared to when I first watched it some four years ago. It's striking the way Kamiyama managed to effectively weave so many contemporary political and social issues into a densely plotted yet intriguingly coherent espionage tale. As a result, the movie remains surprisingly fresh even after four years. It's perhaps even more relevant than ever before.

I'll just outline a few major plot points that contradict shodan's analysis.

- The Solid State Society was originally created by an ultra-nationalist politician who wanted to create a new elite breed of Japanese, at a time when Japan was struggling to integrate a wave of immigrants following the collapse of the Seok Republic.

- The politician's plan was to siphon tax revenue and the pension funds of the elderly Japanese hooked to the Noble Rot system to create his Solid State Society. The politician felt nothing but contempt for the Noble Rot patients, as he saw them as parasites feeding on society while giving nothing in return. He would use the embezzled funds to take in abandoned or abused children and brainwash them to create his perfect race that will save Japan.

- The politician co-opted a brilliant civil servant with exceptional talent in cyberbrain technology to help him build the Solid State Society. The civil servant was a descendant of a prominent family of civil servants. He was once an idealistic man, but had long since become disillusioned with the sorry state of affairs in Japan.

- While the civil servant supported the plan of saving abused and abandoned children, he was ideologically opposed to the politician's ultimate goal of creating a new master race. So, the civil servant designed a backdoor to the system, and secretly programmed it to kidnap at-risk children. To hide the kidnapping, he would get users of the Noble Rot system to essentially adopt the brainwashed children, so that they would have a legal heir to their assets after they die. If they died while under the care of Noble Rot system, their assets would go to the state instead, which most of the elderly folk emphatically did not want.

- In the meantime, the civil servant plotted time and again to assassinate the politican, but because the villain was an ultra-conservative, he refused all cybernetic implants, which made him impossible to hack or endanger from within the Net. Ironically, because the civil servant had by now become a hikkikomori working remotely from home, no one within the organisation even noticed that he had died of a heart attack in his apartment.

- But his legacy, the Solid State Society, had already become part of the gestalt consciousness formed by the Noble Rot system, and so, in that sense, the civil servant had become immortal. In time, it became aware of the threat posed by Motoko Kusanagi, so it hatched a plot that would allow it to bypass her security systems in order to hack into cyberbrain and thus fully absorb the part of her sub-consciousness that had become a sentient entity in its own right.
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Old 2012-11-14, 14:51   Link #98
Lenneth4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin View Post
Everytime Motoko surfs the web she leaves a little bit of herself on the servers. Since she surfs the web constantly and uses of up 7 different bodies / personalities this 'little bit' became an artificial 'ghost'. It then became 'alive' and did a bunch of things it thought the original Motoko would've have done if she thought of it.

It also means if she surfs the web too much it may make another 'ghost'.
Holy mighty shit
God bless your soul please

I never , omg

I never get that until today xd

Thanks
make so perfect sense now.

This explications works for oshii's movies so ?
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Old 2012-11-14, 14:58   Link #99
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
A) Kamiyama said he's been asked the same question many times by fans everywhere and, unfortunately, the answer remains the same: there are no plans for a 3rd Gig. He wouldn't mind being the director again but, as of now, no one's even thinking of drafting such a contract, let alone have him sign one.
So disappointing.
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Old 2012-11-24, 11:19   Link #100
Cosmic Eagle
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Just got back from watching the 3D version at GV....holy shit, that was fantastic....

As for there being no current plans for a 3rd Gig...well, wait long enough and something may happen.....After all we have the Major's fully sentient sub-consciousnesses running around out there; perfect evil twin plot.
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