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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 28 27.72%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 28.71%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 26 25.74%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 8.91%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.97%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.98%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.99%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.97%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-12-29, 03:02   Link #181
Phantom-Takaya
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The way Graham was described to be with honor and valor, I can only half agree. If it was really the case that he seeks out to be a hero with the limelight placed upon him, then I can see a bit of valor, but nothing honorable about that. In fact, if that was the case, he would seem more conceited than honorable. Of course, I'm not sure what his true take in the entire situation is. From what I can tell, he, like everyone else, feels that Celestial Being is a hypocritical group. I also get the impression that he seems more interested in seeing what it's like to be in a Gundam, considering I recall him considering the Gundam to be "a piece of art." What would he do with it if he does get his hands in a Gundam? I don't know. In a realistic sense, he may have not thought about it thoroughly to the end, and just focusing upon the difficult task of obtaining one.

I'd also have to agree with Revolutionist about Marina. We can easily make ourselves think that with the situation we're currently watching in the anime, we can do better. That makes sense, though it's a bit short-sighted. Not everyone in her country follows and believes in her. In fact, just like in the Middle East, there are a few groups that are extremely opposed to her and the parliament. It's already an unstable situation with the fact that her attempts to make peace with the opposing groups while trying to better her country for her people isn't working at all. She looks either like a traitor or a failure in their eyes. Then, if she were to show even the slightest amount of force to quell them, that would simply provoke them further. Then we have Ali do just that, causing a coup de tat to occur. Something that's outside of her control. As the audience, what would you do in her place? With that much pressure, I'd come close to breaking like her. I wouldn't cry, but I'd be just as upset as well as think that I've failed my position. So, in comparison to Relena, she lacked the spine to handle the situation at hand, but she didn't easily shrivel up in a ball or "escape the nation," which puts her in greater risk for her life. Dumb? If you care more about your life than doing what you can for your people.

And... yes. hime is princess, which possibly means she has not been crowned yet.
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Old 2007-12-29, 04:01   Link #182
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Krugis not Kurd
Kurds actually, as per official statements, with "Crujis" or whatever spelling being misromanizations. They're pulling no punches with the comparison in 00.
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Old 2007-12-29, 04:24   Link #183
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I'm actually hoping Marina would become the strong Queen that Azadistan needs, so yes, I agree with Revolutionist. As if today's headlines aren't any indication (Bhutto's assassination), it's something that is also happening in Gundam 00...Conservatives who do not want any foreign intervention to happen could kill off Marina, and in this case, Ali kidnapping Rasa has sent Conservatives on a hunting spree for those who are merely doing all that for the improvement of lives for all of Azadistan, giving them enough reason to believe that they have to kill off the regime allowing for "heathen" invasion to take place...Ali really made sure that the act was seemingly done by Marina and her supporters, which could become even more critical if Rasa was in any way harmed or killed.
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Old 2007-12-29, 09:42   Link #184
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The anime uses "hime" when referring to Marina, doesn't that mean "princess" and not "queen" or is it interchangeable?
Technically, she is a Queen because she is "crowned" (on paper anyway). But in some versions of royal lingo, you can't be a Queen unless you are married. So depending on what you believe, she is either a princess or a queen. It is a bit shaky, since it isn't very accurate to use Western nomenclature for her position, yet there isn't really an official title for her in Persian culture either.
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Old 2007-12-29, 09:53   Link #185
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Kurds actually, as per official statements, with "Crujis" or whatever spelling being misromanizations. They're pulling no punches with the comparison in 00.
What official statements? I don't remember Kurjis ever being referred to Kurdistan anywhere.

AFAIK people only assumed that Kurjis referred to Kurdistan from a Gunota post, whereas in actuality, Kurjis Republic (クルジス共和国) Kurdistan (クルディスタン) have different katakana. Probably a pointed reference similar to Talibia or Moralia, but I doubt that Kurdis/Kurdish Republic is meant to be the correct romanization.
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Old 2007-12-29, 18:51   Link #186
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Kurds actually, as per official statements, with "Crujis" or whatever spelling being misromanizations. They're pulling no punches with the comparison in 00.
Are you kidding me? "No punches"? So what exactly is the "kingdom of Azadistan" a misromanization of?
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Old 2007-12-29, 21:49   Link #187
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
How would you quell a coup d'etat and dissolve ethnic conflicts in a country that's divided along ethnic and religious lines? How would you do this if you're just a figurehead whose words only reach half of the population (if that) because the others are not from your tribe/religious sect?

She actually is pretty good considering her position. She set out to acquire solar power to revitalize her country's economy, and she achieved that. Is it her fault her country men went crazy and started a civil war?

I disagreeeeeee! She hasn't really achieved much in my opinion, but help worsen the situation. As Leader, figurehead or not, She should have been aware of the people's feelings regardless. In a place known for extreme fanatisims, and violence she can't just make outragoues decisions even if they benefit the country.

She had to have known that a civil war was possible, with or without Ali's intervention. She chose to allow outsiders into her country, or should i say her peoples country? I find it hard to believe that she didn't expect people to be in an uproar no matter how silly their beliefs maybe. How can you rule over people when you don't seem to sympathize with them, and I'm not referring to her followers, but the other divided factions with in the nation.

What's good for the geese isn't always good for the gander, so in other words, the decisions she thought was best, clearly wasn't best for the people, which is why their is a civil war.

Of course she could become strong, and blow Relena out of the water. We'll see though.
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Old 2007-12-29, 21:50   Link #188
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Hmm so maybe I'm confusing myself with official statements and 2nd hand info on that one... still, Kurdish and Kurdistan seems to be the majority agreement on the romanization of the thing from what I can tell (certainly the subbers seem to agree). Certainly they have no problem using real life organizations like the Tamil Tigers, the Real IRA and locations like Ceylon Island (aka former Sri Lanka). Wouldn't be a stretch for them to use the actual Kurdistan tag instead of a made-up name, like Azadistan, especially considering the current situation regarding said ethnicity.

As for pullung punches, was referring more to the naming scheme and sense, which seem to be pretty consistent so far (though I wonder when people on other boards take offense to names like "Rasul"/"Ras-Al" etc.)
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Old 2007-12-29, 23:06   Link #189
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Sorry for being off topic!!!

Does anyone know what happened to episode 13? Think it was meant to be due out Yesterday!

If not, does anyone know when episode 13 will be aired?

Thx in advance
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Old 2007-12-29, 23:30   Link #190
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Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
Sorry for being off topic!!!

Does anyone know what happened to episode 13? Think it was meant to be due out Yesterday!

If not, does anyone know when episode 13 will be aired?

Thx in advance
I think G00 has a break for the new year, then then next one is out Jan 5, 2008.
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Old 2007-12-29, 23:33   Link #191
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Thx for the reply usr9857
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Old 2007-12-29, 23:50   Link #192
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Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
I disagreeeeeee! She hasn't really achieved much in my opinion, but help worsen the situation. As Leader, figurehead or not, She should have been aware of the people's feelings regardless. In a place known for extreme fanatisims, and violence she can't just make outragoues decisions even if they benefit the country.

She had to have known that a civil war was possible, with or without Ali's intervention. She chose to allow outsiders into her country, or should i say her peoples country? I find it hard to believe that she didn't expect people to be in an uproar no matter how silly their beliefs maybe. How can you rule over people when you don't seem to sympathize with them, and I'm not referring to her followers, but the other divided factions with in the nation.

What's good for the geese isn't always good for the gander, so in other words, the decisions she thought was best, clearly wasn't best for the people, which is why their is a civil war.

Of course she could become strong, and blow Relena out of the water. We'll see though.
The problem with this philosophy is that it's letting the fanatics control your actions. She took actions that she thought was best for the majority of citizens of her country. I'm sure she sympathizes with the other factions. However, those same factions have to offer a viable alternative over the status quo.

Quite frankly, with the stagnant economy, her country was bound to collapse without foreign aid, in my opinion.
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Old 2007-12-30, 00:02   Link #193
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Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
I disagreeeeeee! She hasn't really achieved much in my opinion, but help worsen the situation. As Leader, figurehead or not, She should have been aware of the people's feelings regardless. In a place known for extreme fanatisims, and violence she can't just make outragoues decisions even if they benefit the country.

She had to have known that a civil war was possible, with or without Ali's intervention. She chose to allow outsiders into her country, or should i say her peoples country? I find it hard to believe that she didn't expect people to be in an uproar no matter how silly their beliefs maybe. How can you rule over people when you don't seem to sympathize with them, and I'm not referring to her followers, but the other divided factions with in the nation.

What's good for the geese isn't always good for the gander, so in other words, the decisions she thought was best, clearly wasn't best for the people, which is why their is a civil war.

Of course she could become strong, and blow Relena out of the water. We'll see though.
Uh yeah that's why Rasa took control of the opposition parties.

There's a reason why Ali kidnapped Rasa.
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Old 2007-12-30, 00:24   Link #194
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Hmm so maybe I'm confusing myself with official statements and 2nd hand info on that one... still, Kurdish and Kurdistan seems to be the majority agreement on the romanization of the thing from what I can tell (certainly the subbers seem to agree). Certainly they have no problem using real life organizations like the Tamil Tigers, the Real IRA and locations like Ceylon Island (aka former Sri Lanka). Wouldn't be a stretch for them to use the actual Kurdistan tag instead of a made-up name, like Azadistan, especially considering the current situation regarding said ethnicity.

As for pullung punches, was referring more to the naming scheme and sense, which seem to be pretty consistent so far (though I wonder when people on other boards take offense to names like "Rasul"/"Ras-Al" etc.)
No I disagree. You were not refering to the "naming scheme" when you said "Kurds actually, as per official statements". You just changed your story for convenience or better yet you changed your story when you were proven wrong.

I agree that they are using real world situations to depict the problems that are addressed in 00. As I mentioned, I believe Krugis is supposed to depict the Kurds in the middle east.

Last edited by itis; 2007-12-30 at 00:34.
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Old 2007-12-30, 00:35   Link #195
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All Points noted and conceded then.
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Old 2007-12-30, 16:31   Link #196
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This episode was a little above average imo, while the rest of the episodes were below average, but I guess I expected too much. Imo: Wing>Seed>Destiny>00.
The characters have far less detail than any of the aforementioned series and they really need to stop using Celestial Being so MUCH.
It's like Al Quida[or however you spell it] keeps on saying Al Quida this, Al Quida that.

But that's kinda off topic.

I liked the fact that someone can actually stand up to a gundam now, before this 00 was about elephants[pun intended] vs ants.
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Old 2007-12-30, 21:30   Link #197
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Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
The problem with this philosophy is that it's letting the fanatics control your actions. She took actions that she thought was best for the majority of citizens of her country. I'm sure she sympathizes with the other factions. However, those same factions have to offer a viable alternative over the status quo.

Quite frankly, with the stagnant economy, her country was bound to collapse without foreign aid, in my opinion.
I'm sure that she does sympathize with them, but To them, it seems that she isn't. It's all in their perception of her, in which they see her as not caring of them.

Now you say that the other factions HAVE to offer an alternative, in reality they don't have to offer a darn thing. This civil war was thier repsonse to this offer. Even with this new economic addition, her country could still collapse, especially without a stable government, which Azadistan, doesn't seem to have. Considering it was so easy for Ali to instigate the Civil war.

Soldier of Darkness I'm aware of why Rasa was captured, but that doesn't change the situation much. Even he wasn't for Marina.
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Old 2007-12-30, 22:46   Link #198
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Soldier of Darkness I'm aware of why Rasa was captured, but that doesn't change the situation much. Even he wasn't for Marina.
Apparently your not.

Marina being naive I'll give you that, which is why she was surprised that Rasa would join the other side. However, in order to save the country she needs to, as Rasa HIMSELF noted and TOLD her himself, make changes that many would not like. He admitted he didn't like change but knew that it was necessary.

Rasa was what was keeping the extremists from going all jihad. The only reason she MADE it that far(Such as requesting aid from the UN) was because of him keeping those guys on a leash. He did it for Marina.

"In order to keep those opposed to you from taking up arms, someone (me) must emphasize with them"

This is why Ali kidnapped him. Without Rasa there to keep the extremists in check, the whole country will fall into chaos. This is what he noted himself and why CB is high priotizing his rescue.

I myself hate and despise Mac's but I use them because they are a necessity for my work so I deal with it myself.
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Old 2007-12-31, 00:11   Link #199
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@ SoldierOfDarkness

I think Rasa said "empathize" not "emphasize"...?

@ Crusader

Marina and her supporters do have an alternative, it's just that Conservatives didn't want any of it as it goes against what they believe. The civil war that has erupted was a direct consequence of these actions (the UN solar plant engineers in Azadistan soil), and it's not just because they don't believe Marina...it's a part of it, I guess, but Conservatives could actually be taking up arms against invasion of their sovereignty or something, or just fighting off another chance of a foreign "invasion" to take control of their lives. Well, it must not be as noble as maintaining sovereignty or anything, they're more likely fighting foreign intervention because they don't want somebody to interfere with their traditions. This is my take on it.
SoldierOfDarkness has actually put up the major reason why the Conservatives want to challenge Marina...some people do not actually like change, and Rasa is there to make sure they won't do anything rash.
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Old 2007-12-31, 00:46   Link #200
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Apparently your not.

Marina being naive I'll give you that, which is why she was surprised that Rasa would join the other side. However, in order to save the country she needs to, as Rasa HIMSELF noted and TOLD her himself, make changes that many would not like. He admitted he didn't like change but knew that it was necessary.

Rasa was what was keeping the extremists from going all jihad. The only reason she MADE it that far(Such as requesting aid from the UN) was because of him keeping those guys on a leash. He did it for Marina.

"In order to keep those opposed to you from taking up arms, someone (me) must emphasize with them"

This is why Ali kidnapped him. Without Rasa there to keep the extremists in check, the whole country will fall into chaos. This is what he noted himself and why CB is high priotizing his rescue.

I myself hate and despise Mac's but I use them because they are a necessity for my work so I deal with it myself.
Again I understand all of this. How can she be queen when she is so weak? Which goes back to what i was saying about Perception. She doesn't SEEM to be considerate of her people's wishes. There is always a way to make things happen. I just question the way she handled things. She made a these decisions, and such but acts like all that was happening was such a suprise.

I'll go so far to say that Rasa kidnapping should have been expected as well, or at least something similar. since these events are taking place in our time line, then Ulitmately it should be no suprise. I mean political asissinations, and Al-Qieda esque methods shouldn't come as a suprise.

She should have had some contengiencies in place, and she didn't. To me, this proves that she really doesn't know her country, or better to say she is disillusioned with her country and what goes on over there. How can aleader not know thier country or thier countries history for that matter? I just seems that she doesn't have a clue.
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Last edited by Crusader; 2007-12-31 at 00:47. Reason: terrible typing skills
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