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Old 2007-10-02, 20:00   Link #101
Forbin
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Hehe that's why I asked in the first place. No one answered.

I read 2-3 a LOOOOOOONG time ago. Back when ADV was profitable.
So Patricia was with him the first time, I'd better go back and watch the anime at least.

Oh I thought Marco knew the link, I just thought he doesn't mix work and pleasure. But since they are different people , owells. That darn Hilshire/Hartmann thing threw me off.
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Old 2008-01-02, 09:44   Link #102
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The announcement of the new anime adaptation/continuation got me into the series again so I did some sort of character assessment for the first-stage cyborgs because I had nothing better to do (while procrastinating).

Angelica
Spoiler:


Rico
Spoiler:


Henrietta
Spoiler:


Triella
Spoiler:


Fleda Claes Johansson
Spoiler:


Elsa de Sica
Spoiler:


Hooray for boredom.
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Old 2008-01-03, 00:02   Link #103
Dark Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
The announcement of the new anime adaptation/continuation got me into the series again so I did some sort of character assessment for the first-stage cyborgs because I had nothing better to do (while procrastinating).

Angelica
Spoiler:


Rico
Spoiler:


Henrietta
Spoiler:


Triella
Spoiler:


Fleda Claes Johansson
Spoiler:


Elsa de Sica
Spoiler:


Hooray for boredom.
This is actually pretty good you got every character down pact...even if it was done out of boredom.
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Old 2008-01-03, 00:13   Link #104
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I was under the impression that Elsa's conditioning was pretty severe as well, while Henrietta's was low, just that how their relationship, as in the handler's training/raising of their cyborgs along with the cyborg's inherent nature that wasn't completely overtaken by the conditioning enacted different effects.
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Old 2008-01-03, 06:02   Link #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
I was under the impression that Elsa's conditioning was pretty severe as well, while Henrietta's was low, just that how their relationship, as in the handler's training/raising of their cyborgs along with the cyborg's inherent nature that wasn't completely overtaken by the conditioning enacted different effects.
Yeah, Jose's probably too nice to give Henrietta a full dose. However, her frequent fits of jealousy and, more importantly, her violent reactions towards anything that seems to threaten Jose or any gifts from him (1. against the terrorists in the first episode, 2. the poor waiter with the bread knife, 3. Raballo, Jose, and Claes at the shooting range, 4. the thief who stole her camera, etc.) suggests that she's still at the age wherein she is unable to think for herself properly so that, unlike Claes and Triella, she lacks understanding of her conditioning and the will to resist it. As such, even low levels of conditioning affect her to a great extent.

Either that or she's really just emotional.

Elsa's a bit harder to figure out though due to her lack of screen time. Lauro considered her as nothing more than a tool so it's possible that her conditioning was pretty high compared to the other girls. However, it's rather baffling when you put her beside the only other extreme case that we know of since Rico's almost her exact opposite. Given that each girl has a unique history prior to the implants, perhaps the process of creating a cyborg only erases the memory but leaves part of the initial personality intact, hence the different behaviors.
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Old 2008-01-04, 11:48   Link #106
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I've never been able to find this manga, which disappointed me because I loved the anime.

Hopefully the second season will be more epic, and yeah, if I care enough I can look over the *where to buy manga* topic.
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Old 2008-01-04, 18:47   Link #107
Forbin
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You know, how does Rico know all about her past?

I just realized that.
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2) What kind of girls do Anime Otaku males want? ..................... Female.
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Old 2008-01-04, 21:09   Link #108
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It could be a side-effect of large dosages of the conditioning drug. In volume 9
Spoiler for Volume 9:
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Old 2008-01-05, 15:53   Link #109
Claes
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Originally Posted by Forbin View Post
You know, how does Rico know all about her past?

I just realized that.
Remind me, when did this happen
IMO, Rico never been brainwashed since the first time. Jean use power (scolding)insteadt of drug to Conditioned her, since he realized that drug will shorten her lifespan (a good side of him)

btw, did the raw for volume 9 is out? Just asking, Im not asking for source
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Old 2008-01-05, 20:18   Link #110
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Rico details her entire past in first-person perspective in v01c02, but all the other girls have their past told in the handler's perspective.
Also, it doesn't seem like the conditioning drug is only used for the initial brainwashing procedure; seems more like it has to be used somewhat regularly, since Angelica is shown getting withdrawal symptoms.

Raws for volume 9 are out as well.
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Old 2008-01-06, 06:36   Link #111
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Will I break the rule if I'm asking for the raw?
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Old 2008-01-06, 09:10   Link #112
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i'd love to at least look at the raws,to see who's featured in this one,I know Angelica is but i'd like to know who else.
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Old 2008-01-06, 09:25   Link #113
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Just about everyone's featured in this volume, and amazingly enough, everyone gets "touching" moments with their handlers, even Jean/Rico (somewhat). And in Petrushka's case, too touching . Alessandro has definitely gotten too attached to his cyborg.

Spoiler for volume 9, just character appearances, no real story spoilers:


All in all though, a pretty good volume, and a lot more interesting than the last two, with the undue focus on Petra...
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Old 2008-01-06, 09:58   Link #114
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Originally Posted by selkirk View Post
Just about everyone's featured in this volume, and amazingly enough, everyone gets "touching" moments with their handlers, even Jean/Rico (somewhat).
Which makes me curious about the one without a (living) handler.

Did you read this from raws or has somebody worked on it already?
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Old 2008-01-06, 10:39   Link #115
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Whoops, let me rephrase that. Most everyone, except Claes . She actually doesn't appear much this chapter, but she is there in 3 or 4 scenes. In a shower room with Triela, no less , and basically the next scene has Hilshire inspecting Triela's thighs very closely . Of course, I'm taking that a bit out of context . Awkward moments galore in this volume, what with
Spoiler:


I read it raw. I don't think anyone works on English scanlations, considering it's licensed in the US.

Two days to second season!
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Old 2008-01-11, 13:10   Link #116
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Originally Posted by selkirk View Post
Whoops, let me rephrase that. Most everyone, except Claes . She actually doesn't appear much this chapter, but she is there in 3 or 4 scenes. In a shower room with Triela, no less , and basically the next scene has Hilshire inspecting Triela's thighs very closely .
Let it be. Claes was meant to be Yuu's last card when the time comes ^^
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Old 2008-01-13, 21:29   Link #117
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Originally Posted by G. Zeus View Post
Yeah, Jose's probably too nice to give Henrietta a full dose. However, her frequent fits of jealousy and, more importantly, her violent reactions towards anything that seems to threaten Jose or any gifts from him (1. against the terrorists in the first episode, 2. the poor waiter with the bread knife, 3. Raballo, Jose, and Claes at the shooting range, 4. the thief who stole her camera, etc.) suggests that she's still at the age wherein she is unable to think for herself properly so that, unlike Claes and Triella, she lacks understanding of her conditioning and the will to resist it. As such, even low levels of conditioning affect her to a great extent.

Either that or she's really just emotional.

Elsa's a bit harder to figure out though due to her lack of screen time. Lauro considered her as nothing more than a tool so it's possible that her conditioning was pretty high compared to the other girls. However, it's rather baffling when you put her beside the only other extreme case that we know of since Rico's almost her exact opposite. Given that each girl has a unique history prior to the implants, perhaps the process of creating a cyborg only erases the memory but leaves part of the initial personality intact, hence the different behaviors.
In the anime, Jose states explicitly that he uses a minimum dose of conditioning; it's also mentioned by other characters. I assume the manga also said that?; I can't remember right now.

Anyhow, I always saw Henrietta's devotion to Jose as a genuine response to his temperament; a mix of her underlying personality (I think the girls retained their distinctive personalities, even after they lost their memories--in Henrietta's case, she's shy, craving affection, and loving--as opposed to the strong-willed Triela), his treatment of her, and the larger situation both of them are in. In Henrietta's case, I think the external factor that intensifies Henrietta's attachment to Jose is not the conditioning, but the fact that Jose actually treats her like his sister, when none of the other girls receive such treatment. Also, for whatever reason, Jose seems to be able to read Henrietta's emotions almost perfectly; this goes beyond just being "nice." For example, after the opening raid, it's clear he's annoyed at Henrietta for her going beserk. He's counseled by his colleagues to be more stern in his treatment of her. He then proceeds to ignore them, knowing that Henrietta is far harsher on herself than anyone else could be, and gives her the pick-me-up she needs. He does this, even when he's still being somewhat standoffish with her at the beginning of their pairing, perhaps out of lingering loyalty to his dead sister (cf. the chapter where Jose discards some of his reserve, and pinches her cheek).

Combined with Henrietta's own underlying desire for affection, the obvious comparison of her treatment with the others only intensifies her feelings for Jose, which helps lead to the irrational jealousy, and the uncontrolled protectiveness. You'll notice, though, that Henrietta seems much more in control of her emotions as time goes on. All the incidents you cite are pretty early on. In contrast, I think it's vol. 3 or 4 when the doc praises Jose for stabilizing Henrietta's mental state, even as she seems to become even more devoted (if that's possible) to Jose. By that time, she truly seems to be able to do her job at work, not lose control, and then come back home and "cook," to use the doctor's previous analogy. IIRC, in the second visit, there's also no obsessive body count to try to prove her "usefulness" to Jose, which had come up in the first doctor's visit--she herself seems to realize over time that that isn't what Jose wants her to be like. The irony is that at this later point Jose seems to grow weary of reciprocating her devotion, and the doctor needs to give him a pep talk. The memory of his sister also seems to help sustain his affection, which I actually think is genuine (even if he himself doubts that at times).

I think it's a singular (and meaningful) irony of the series that perhaps the most intense affection held by a girls for a fratello (I should say I haven't read the new Russian girl's arc) is the one least influenced by the conditioning; the real source is something more akin to the younger sister who worships her benevolent and seemingly all-knowing older brother, who treats her like a princess in a world filled with death, violence, and suffering. After all, in the flashbacks up to vol. 6 I've seen, Jose's real biological sister also seems to have been absurdly devoted to her big brother--and she also seems to have felt neglected by the other family members.

I actually wonder if the Jose/Henrietta pair has been sort-of developed as far as it can go, barring a catastrophic event like a death, which would explain why it's been getting less attention as far as I can tell in the manga. We've already seen a fair number of flashbacks of Jose's previous younger sister, so the complexities of the situation on his end have been fleshed out. While Henrietta's devotion to Jose seems relatively straightforward, his motivations are hideously complex--a mix of sympathy, pity, obligation, guilt, the desire to replace his sister, and, IMO, genuine concern and affection--yes, indeed, love--for Henrietta the human being. We've already seen much of that, in his flashbacks, moments of self-criticism, and Jean's "conversation" with his sister's ghost. As for Henrietta, is she going to become even *more* devoted to Jose? Is that even possible? The addition of a "romantic" element seems unlikely to me (thankfully, because I would find it really creepy), because it's pretty clear that Jose *does not* think of Henrietta that way (the kaleidoscope raised an eyebrow, but all the flashbacks to his sister count against that). And while Henrietta might very well have become another Elsa (i.e. crazed jilted lover syndrome) if Jose had been like Lauro, Jose isn't, and I think Henrietta is more than content with their purely brother/sister relationship, assuming, of course, that she was the exclusive focus of his life. Which she is. So maybe the only plot development that could scramble things is Jose getting a girlfriend, but that, again, seems to be unlikely, because, as far as I can tell, Henrietta is as much at the center of Jose's universe, as he is for her.

For me, that's perhaps the most compelling part of the series; how you could have such a connection between two people, but in such an unforgiving, cruel, and hateful environment.

But that's just my opinion...
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Old 2008-01-13, 23:40   Link #118
NominalBeast
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Originally Posted by selkirk View Post
Spoiler:
You would have to be blind not to see that coming, really. The end of vol. 8 was pretty much a declaration of love.
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Old 2008-01-14, 11:47   Link #119
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You would have to be blind not to see that coming, really. The end of vol. 8 was pretty much a declaration of love.
Well, it's the first case of a Handler showing any romantic interest in his cyborg. It's obvious that a lot of the girls like their handlers, but the other way around?

Anyway, for those that don't know, Gunslinger Girl was originally a doujin manga called "Gun Slinger Girl". There are five short chapters (Rico's the main character, with Henrietta nowhere to be seen), and a whole lot of design sketches and info. There's also an 18+ gaiden chapter, which is rather interesting plot-wise, but the H content feels really tacked on. I don't believe I've ever even seen this mentioned in the English fandom before, so I might be interested in doing scanlations, if I can find some people to help out. The art in the first three chapters is very very amateur, but it might be interesting for some people to see how GSG started out.
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Old 2008-01-16, 02:16   Link #120
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Well, it's the first case of a Handler showing any romantic interest in his cyborg. It's obvious that a lot of the girls like their handlers, but the other way around?

Anyway, for those that don't know, Gunslinger Girl was originally a doujin manga called "Gun Slinger Girl". There are five short chapters (Rico's the main character, with Henrietta nowhere to be seen), and a whole lot of design sketches and info. There's also an 18+ gaiden chapter, which is rather interesting plot-wise, but the H content feels really tacked on. I don't believe I've ever even seen this mentioned in the English fandom before, so I might be interested in doing scanlations, if I can find some people to help out. The art in the first three chapters is very very amateur, but it might be interesting for some people to see how GSG started out.
Do it!
Ill try to Help (if needed)
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