Martial Arts and Combat Sports

[aolas]

Right now i practice aikido. but long time ago i practiced taekwondoo & my country martial art "pencak silat"

[raikage]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

Well I think Bruce Lee believed that one should make the martial art a part of them and not the martial art the man. This means he doesn't mind the traditional ideas that these martial arts bring, but one shouldn't be bound by them. It wasn't just about mixing and matching. It is studying what works and doesn't work for the individual. For example a short person is not going to fight a large person the same way he would a person of equal height.

Lee often referred to traditional martial arts as a "classical mess."

After a highly disputed fight with Wong Jack-Man in San Francisco (Lee and his wife said that he won, Wong said that he won, other eyewitnesses said that they don't remember), Lee decided that his Wing Chun wasn't good enough on its own. (It is worth mentioning at this point that Lee's knowledge of Wing Chun was woefully incomplete -- he only learned one-third of the system -- yet chose to blame the style rather than himself.)

Lee developed a high disdain for traditional martial arts after this fight. And his philosophy of "take what works, discard what doesn't" will work for him, but would not work for everyone when looking at future generations of martial artists.

Let's say that a fighter learns a particular style, and finds that he doesn't like joint locks; he'd rather stick to punching/kicking. So he doesn't use them, doesn't train them, and completely abandons them. But what of the fighter's students? They will be denied the knowledge of previous generations, denied the opportunity to learn what does and does not work for them personally.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by raikage

Lee often referred to traditional martial arts as a "classical mess."

After a highly disputed fight with Wong Jack-Man in San Francisco (Lee and his wife said that he won, Wong said that he won, other eyewitnesses said that they don't remember), Lee decided that his Wing Chun wasn't good enough on its own. (It is worth mentioning at this point that Lee's knowledge of Wing Chun was woefully incomplete -- he only learned one-third of the system -- yet chose to blame the style rather than himself.)

Lee developed a high disdain for traditional martial arts after this fight. And his philosophy of "take what works, discard what doesn't" will work for him, but would not work for everyone when looking at future generations of martial artists.

Let's say that a fighter learns a particular style, and finds that he doesn't like joint locks; he'd rather stick to punching/kicking. So he doesn't use them, doesn't train them, and completely abandons them. But what of the fighter's students? They will be denied the knowledge of previous generations, denied the opportunity to learn what does and does not work for them personally.

I agree that some of his concepts are flawed. For example Bruce Lee didn't think grappling was that important in most situation. He's not the only person that thought this Mas Oyama also said something similar. I disagree though in your assessment that he was telling people to completely abandon a technique that he doesn't like. Bruce Lee emphasis was on what works and doesn't work, yet also maintaining a balance. For example, I already mentioned Bruce Lee didn't like grappling and he thought that in most situation ground fighting wasn't a good idea, but because you need it in some situation Bruce Lee trained in those areas as well. As for Wong vs. Lee fight I personally think it was a tie (Which was Bruce Lee's original assessment of the fight, which he later changed). Again it's not whether you like a technique or not. It's whether it works for you or not. You can do this even with traditional martial arts. For example a person who is physically weak, but fast training in grappling is going to avoid using techniques that requires alot of strength and use techniques that requires speed and they can do this within the traditional system.

As for how much of Wing Chun did Bruce Lee learn. That seems to depend on the source. Some claim he learned the first 2 forms and began learning some of the third form, while others claimed he didn't learn any of the third form. Wong Shun Leung has said that Bruce Lee did manage to learn some of the advance techniques on his own...well he claimed he discretely taught some techniques wrong so Bruce Lee could figure it out on his own.

[Cheezy]

I tried Ju Jitsu for a while.

[hobbes_fan]

having seen a few fights in my time (this is what you get when your local pub is a dive). I have to say in IMO grapple based Martial Arts are more realistic in terms of real world use. Real world fights go one of two ways, one maybe two strikes thrown or it hits the deck and becomes a wrestle. Very rarely outside of organised competition have I seen a traditional style fight with people squaring up.

[Gemstar]

Real fighting is fighting without rules. In any technique or style you are taught to defend against a specific type of punch or kick. Now in the real world people may not know how to punch properly rather a way they are accustom to. And you aren't taught in Karate or Kung-fu how to defend against someone throwing a shoe at you or slamming a wooden chair on you. If you must train in a style, learn it, master it then achieve it ! Don't be bound by its' limitations.

( Same goes for life )

[raikage]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

I agree that some of his concepts are flawed. For example Bruce Lee didn't think grappling was that important in most situation. He's not the only person that thought this Mas Oyama also said something similar. I disagree though in your assessment that he was telling people to completely abandon a technique that he doesn't like. Bruce Lee emphasis was on what works and doesn't work, yet also maintaining a balance. For example, I already mentioned Bruce Lee didn't like grappling and he thought that in most situation ground fighting wasn't a good idea, but because you need it in some situation Bruce Lee trained in those areas as well. As for Wong vs. Lee fight I personally think it was a tie (Which was Bruce Lee's original assessment of the fight, which he later changed). Again it's not whether you like a technique or not. It's whether it works for you or not. You can do this even with traditional martial arts. For example a person who is physically weak, but fast training in grappling is going to avoid using techniques that requires alot of strength and use techniques that requires speed and they can do this within the traditional system.

As for how much of Wing Chun did Bruce Lee learn. That seems to depend on the source. Some claim he learned the first 2 forms and began learning some of the third form, while others claimed he didn't learn any of the third form. Wong Shun Leung has said that Bruce Lee did manage to learn some of the advance techniques on his own...well he claimed he discretely taught some techniques wrong so Bruce Lee could figure it out on his own.

Excellent points. I've heard that Lee only learned the first form and maybe part of the second -- could very well be wrong, though. And he's not around to tell us.

Originally Posted by hobbes_fan

having seen a few fights in my time (this is what you get when your local pub is a dive). I have to say in IMO grapple based Martial Arts are more realistic in terms of real world use. Real world fights go one of two ways, one maybe two strikes thrown or it hits the deck and becomes a wrestle. Very rarely outside of organised competition have I seen a traditional style fight with people squaring up.

Disagree. There are two schools of thought (three if you count mixed-martial arts):
- "All fights go to the ground -- learn how to fight there."
- "All fights start standing -- keep them there."
- "Be prepared to fight standing or on the ground. (Note that if you train both equally, you will excel at neither -- which is a conveniently forgotten fact.)"

I already said this before in the thread -- I would avoid the ground at all costs in a fight. When you're standing, you can still run away.

Originally Posted by Gemstar

Real fighting is fighting without rules. In any technique or style you are taught to defend against a specific type of punch or kick. Now in the real world people may not know how to punch properly rather a way they are accustom to. And you aren't taught in Karate or Kung-fu how to defend against someone throwing a shoe at you or slamming a wooden chair on you. If you must train in a style, learn it, master it then achieve it ! Don't be bound by its' limitations.

( Same goes for life )

No style teaches you how to take a chair shot except for WWF-style, if you smell what the Rock is cooking.

And no teacher worth anything will train you to counter "Eagle Dives to Pick Plum Blossom" with "Phoenix Ascends to the Heavens" or any such thing.

If there's a punch coming at your head -- any punch -- you have to either:

• Block it
• Parry it
• Avoid it
• Get socked in the face

Martial arts drills will train your body to instinctively do one of them. If you learn no style, or do not drill, you'll take too much time considering what to do, and end up getting socked in the face. That's really all martial arts are.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by raikage

Excellent points. I've heard that Lee only learned the first form and maybe part of the second -- could very well be wrong, though. And he's not around to tell us.



Disagree. There are two schools of thought (three if you count mixed-martial arts):
- "All fights go to the ground -- learn how to fight there."
- "All fights start standing -- keep them there."
- "Be prepared to fight standing or on the ground. (Note that if you train both equally, you will excel at neither -- which is a conveniently forgotten fact.)"

I already said this before in the thread -- I would avoid the ground at all costs in a fight. When you're standing, you can still run away.



No style teaches you how to take a chair shot except for WWF-style, if you smell what the Rock is cooking.

And no teacher worth anything will train you to counter "Eagle Dives to Pick Plum Blossom" with "Phoenix Ascends to the Heavens" or any such thing.

If there's a punch coming at your head -- any punch -- you have to either:

• Block it
• Parry it
• Avoid it
• Get socked in the face

Martial arts drills will train your body to instinctively do one of them. If you learn no style, or do not drill, you'll take too much time considering what to do, and end up getting socked in the face. That's really all martial arts are.

that's the thing we really don't know how much wing chun he learned and we probably won't ever know since it completely depends on the person you want to believe. I tend to believe Leung's version the most since he was the one that actually trained Bruce Lee, but he never states exactly how much Lee learned, except that he did some of the Dummy forms. It should be noted though that Bruce Lee's first martial art was Tai Chi, which was learned from his father. Bruce Lee did actually box and won 4 fights I believe in the boxing ring. so Lee already new a few styles before he even began coming up with the concept of Jeet Kune Do.

[Gemstar]

Bruce Lee was an old fighter. We don't know how he would do for now days. I don't know but since then maybe the fighting has changed and the way people think. Because the way people think greatly affects their fighting.

[kenjiharima]

a fight doesn't need to be flashy, just one good punch or kick to take an opponent down is good enough.

[mrvetle]

Originally Posted by kenjiharima

a fight doesn't need to be flashy, just one good punch or kick to take an opponent down is good enough.

In other news, oceans contains water.

[North Dakota]

I was just wondering out of every body here whos into martcial arts and witch ones your in... I'm curently in tae kwon do and kum do I used to do boxing kick boxing and karate so what what are you about? ^_^

[Yaoi_Daisuki]

ah i used to be in taekwondo till yellow belt lol, have yet to even start sparring. im also used to be in lion dance, not too sure if that is counted as a form of martial arts. being the "tail" of the lion is no joke, back hurts like hell

[mrvetle]

I used to be in taekwondo as well, quit right before the green belt. I want to start boxing or kickboxing.

[Zaris]

I have a black belt in Wushu kung fu, but that was five years ago and I haven't really practiced since. But for the purposes of my job, I create my own self-defense techniques and forms.

[Kyuusai]

When I was a wee lad, my father signed me up for seibukan lessons, but the lessons were slow, and I eventually stopped due to time constraints.

In junior high, though, I met two friends, one of whom was a black belt in tae kwon do and an assistant instructor at his mixed kung fu dojo, and the other a friend that sparred with him. I practiced informally with them, and thoughout high school and college we practiced bits from other styles we weren't formally trained in (including some Japanese fencing... with wooden practice swords. DO NOT REPEAT THE RISK-TAKING OF MY YOUTH!). Their form was always better than mine because of my desire to learn something new once I'd reached adequacy instead of instead spending time perfecting my technique, but I got to the point where I was sparring on the same level as them.

If you had to pigeonhole me, I'd say my style is jeet kun do.

I need to fill some of my holes by studying more kung fu and aikido and starting jiu jitsu (grappling is a serious weak point in my knowledge). I'd also REALLY like to study capoeira. I am several years out of practice (and it was poor practice to begin with).

[TinyRedLeaf]

I'm not sure that poor spelling is someting to be "lol'ed" about, especially when a spell-check function is available.

There is an existing thread on martial arts found here: Martial Arts and Combat Sports

[Thingle]

Our own martial art, Arnis. Everyone takes it up in school.

[Dxon]

I used to do Judo. Had orange belt. Was nearly getting the next belt but I quit. Why? Not interesting anymore. It was self-defence. At least thats why I started doing it. But after a while I asked If I could use it as self-defence and the sensei said I couldn't. Then I was like:
WTF?! A self-defence sport which you may NOT use outside of the dojo or whatever you want to call it.

So I quit... ^^ It lost it purpose. Now it's 4/5 years ago I stopped. When I think back I think like: Dude I could do it anyway outside the dojo. >o<

[Takeru]

I'm currently in my 3rd year of Kenpo Karate and am a green belt.
I really want to take kendo, but that'll probably never happen.