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Old 2008-01-12, 02:59   Link #61
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
Hooray, it's back.

Ep 1

We all have a fair idea what to expect from this series now (ie, the unexpected), and while this first episode wasn't as brilliant as some of the eps in the last series (some of the jokes in the original were just a work of Shinbo... I mean genius... their interchangeable words in this context), it's a worthy SZS episode. The chronology bugged me, though. I mean, I realize this isn't supposed to be a coherent story with a linear timeline, but it always played in the back of my mind that Nami had been around since the beginning, before many of the characters that appeared in this ep were introduced, but now this was supposed to be an introduction for her, and everyone else had conveniently forgotten she existed (and she them). Oh well.

I already miss "bure bure bure bure"...
Actually, if you watched the DVD special (available in animesuki right now) you would realise that they had rebooted the first season back to something closer to the original manga. Think of the 1st season as an alternate universe, and the DVD special and second season as canon.
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Old 2008-01-12, 03:17   Link #62
Sorrow-K
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Actually, if you watched the DVD special (available in animesuki right now) you would realise that they had rebooted the first season back to something closer to the original manga. Think of the 1st season as an alternate universe, and the DVD special and second season as canon.
So, in other words, it's a cheap retcon. My favourite. -_-
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Old 2008-01-12, 03:30   Link #63
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Fascinating.... I've no context to decide what is canon SZS and what is Shinbo injection so this may prove quite interesting.
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Old 2008-01-12, 03:54   Link #64
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
So, in other words, it's a cheap retcon. My favourite. -_-
Which would you prefer? A retcon and canonical material from now on, or for the animation staff to make up non-canon junk for the rest of the second season?

Think of it like the new Batman Movie Franchise; Who cares if recon occurs, as long as we get good stuff in the long run?
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Old 2008-01-12, 04:33   Link #65
Onizuka-GTO
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missed "bure bure bure" as well.

but this episode has to have the most "WTF? ROFL" moment so far.

I mean the first 5mins....WTF? ROFL.


Then...normal...really...normal.

Best lyrics for the "Going home theme"

I swear if you ask any "real" student they have some really funny (and rude) lyrics to go with it, and they kinda nailed it with this one. WTF? ROFL.

but yeah, great way to remind everyone of the characters, plus self-ribbing at the same time.

classic.

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Old 2008-01-12, 06:42   Link #66
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Which would you prefer? A retcon and canonical material from now on, or for the animation staff to make up non-canon junk for the rest of the second season?

Think of it like the new Batman Movie Franchise; Who cares if recon occurs, as long as we get good stuff in the long run?
Thinking about it, Shaft really did mess up a bit there.

I mean, I'm pretty sure they didn't expect Zetsubo Sensei to be popular enough to warrant a sequel/semi-reboot of the series either. It makes sense why they chose to, but it's still not the most optimal way to do it IMO. Just imagine the confusion of a fan who wouldn't know it was a retcon otherwise.

Also, I really liked the way the OP showed the fanarts in stead of the OP animation to come out in the future. Actually, the new Naruto Shippuden ED did the same thing. Rather than boring, blank screens and lousy prototype animation, I think the fanarts are a nice and graceful touch.
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Old 2008-01-12, 07:23   Link #67
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Thinking about it, Shaft really did mess up a bit there.

I mean, I'm pretty sure they didn't expect Zetsubo Sensei to be popular enough to warrant a sequel/semi-reboot of the series either. It makes sense why they chose to, but it's still not the most optimal way to do it IMO. Just imagine the confusion of a fan who wouldn't know it was a retcon otherwise.
Well, I can give you three other alternate paths Shaft could have taken with the series.

Shakugan no Shana and Zero no Tsukaima both got sequels recently, and both series had more or less deviated from their original sources for the same reason as ZS; because they didn't know there was to be a sequel.

In the case of ZnT, the production team threw the original plot away alltogether in the second season, and kept the alterations from the first season. This effectively severed the author's contribution from the project, and a war drama about social classes become a bad fanservice show.
(And of course, this is the worst possible choice)

For SnS, the second season had 12 episodes of filler, before they managed to maneuver the plot back to the original source material. The Shana fans now said God is in His Heaven and all is right with the world, but frankly wasting 12 episodes on filler is doing fans a disservice. (Could be worse, but a waste of time.)

And then we come to Full Metal Panic.
Kyoto Animation, perhaps, had taken the most difficult path possible. After inheriting the series from Studio Gonzo, to make a sequel, they actually hired the original novel author to write brand-new episodes for bridging the plot back to the canon storyline. No retcons took place, while whatever they animated had the approval of the author, which means minimal disruption with plotpoints far in the future that doesn't even exist yet. The author even hanged around Kyoto Animation long enough to write a script for Haruhi on the side.

SZS didn't do as well as FMP in bridging the gap between stories, but it could have been much worse. I believe their choice to use retcon is the right one, as it is probably unreasonable to kidnapped the manga author and keep him around for scrip-writing.
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Old 2008-01-12, 08:14   Link #68
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The OP was great, hearing the seiyuus joining in some heavy rock is just great. Marina Inoue's voice fit the song nicely
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Old 2008-01-12, 08:16   Link #69
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I thought Chiri's part of the story was the only one that was greatly altered? I mean we can just assume Chiri's part is a 'director's cut' that wasn't seen in Episode 2 (they look like they could integrate both of them too).
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Old 2008-01-12, 08:19   Link #70
Sol Falling
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wow...just watched a.f.k.'s sub...and that was hilarious. Like seriously, a cult about dancing around a beach covered in piss? And the second half was awsome as well, with some extra screentime for komori-chan. And as much as I loved the first season regardless, this first episode had notably improved animation as well. I'm actually really impressed, and would say that this episode was funnier than a lot of the previous season, so for those people worrying about SZS losing it's comedic appeal, I'd definately say 'not yet'.

Though I will chime in with the people missing 'burebureburebure'.

Anyway, I'm not actually sure I get what this retconning all of you guys are talking about is about? Is it the first half? 'Cause I was under the impression that the summary it was based on isn't canonical even in the manga, seeing as the school Zetsubou-sensei supposedly ended up at was an all-girls school, versus the clearly mixed class in the actual manga. There's no indication of his family, either. And as for the reset where nobody recognized Nami, a.f.k.'s subs seemed to indicate that the show was passing that off as a flashback, as seen in the scene where Nami is talking about her 'truancy experience' in front of the class while they are discussing truancy (as shown by 'truancy' written on the blackboard).

So, yeah...are you guys talking about something else? In which case, clarification would be appreciated. The post about the varying retcons of different series was very educational, anyhow.

edit: mm, wait, you guys are referring to the DVD special? Where there was a flash message about there being complaints about staying true to 'original intention'. In that case, I'd like to suggest that that was merely a tongue in cheek comment about the censorship with funny faces in the first episode, which was removed during the scene where Kafuka was pulling Zetsubou-sensei down from his noose. I also didn't notice any plot or setting significant changes which would constitute a 'retcon' aside from Chiri's cake cutting scene (actually, I think even that was just shortened for the special, and remained otherwise identical to what happened in the show).

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2008-01-12 at 08:30.
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Old 2008-01-12, 08:44   Link #71
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
edit: mm, wait, you guys are referring to the DVD special? Where there was a flash message about there being complaints about staying true to 'original intention'. In that case, I'd like to suggest that that was merely a tongue in cheek comment about the censorship with funny faces in the first episode, which was removed during the scene where Kafuka was pulling Zetsubou-sensei down from his noose. I also didn't notice any plot or setting significant changes which would constitute a 'retcon' aside from Chiri's cake cutting scene (actually, I think even that was just shortened for the special, and remained otherwise identical to what happened in the show).
Note that at the end of the DVD special, you see Nami at her home. This was repeated in one of the SZS advertising. Thus it is made clear that Nami's status as a student who never showed up until a dozen other girls were already introduced is now considered canon for the TV series, mirroring the manga.

As for censorship, there was nothing extra-perverted in the DVD special at all. I could only interpret the comment about following the author's intention, as being accurate to the original as much as it can and undoing any changes made previously..
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Old 2008-01-12, 09:05   Link #72
bayoab
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
edit: mm, wait, you guys are referring to the DVD special? Where there was a flash message about there being complaints about staying true to 'original intention'. In that case, I'd like to suggest that that was merely a tongue in cheek comment about the censorship with funny faces in the first episode, which was removed during the scene where Kafuka was pulling Zetsubou-sensei down from his noose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I could only interpret the comment about following the author's intention, as being accurate to the original as much as it can and undoing any changes made previously..
This is what the comment is supposed to mean. The special redoes the background stories for the girls exactly as they were in the manga. It has nothing to do with the faces.

Now, let's see if SHAFT holds up their part of the bargain if the sales do cross 30k (which is highly unlikely but I can see a campaign for it happening.)
(For reference, sales of S1 were about 7k per disc.)
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Old 2008-01-12, 09:06   Link #73
Sol Falling
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hm...I'll have to check that. It's true that in the flashback part, all the other girls know about Itoshiki-sensei while Nami doesn't, suggesting that she wasn't there when he introduced himself. I'm not sure this is necessarily inconsistent with the first season, though, 'cause the first instance where I remember Nami being introduced was in the episode where all the girls were taken to the Itoshiki mansion to marry him. In that case, this episode would be set before that episode in the first season?

Anyway, it's true that there wasn't anything notable that was revealed with the uncensoring of that scene, but if you check the actual first episode, you'll notice that there were funny faces covering Kafuka's skirt in that scene. I read through the SZS thread fairly recently, and at the time when the first episode came out there were many people complaining about how the face ruined the aesthetic of the series and turned them off from the show. I think Japanese viewers probably made a fuss about it as well. Anyway, the negative response stuck in my mind, so that's why I made the connection when that scene came up again, particularly because nothing was revealed--as I said, the message was being tongue in cheek by showing that there was nothing to see under the censorship anyway.
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Old 2008-01-12, 09:21   Link #74
Mentorian
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Anyway, I'm not actually sure I get what this retconning all of you guys are talking about is about? Is it the first half? 'Cause I was under the impression that the summary it was based on isn't canonical even in the manga, seeing as the school Zetsubou-sensei supposedly ended up at was an all-girls school, versus the clearly mixed class in the actual manga.
I may stretch the meaning of "canonical" here, but the first part of Episode 1 is still canonical, since the gist of it was inside the jacket flap of the Tankubon Volume 1. Frankly though, it caught me by surprise as I didn't expect them to animate that fake summary.

In my opinion though, the first season had been following the manga very closely, except the order of the girls' introduction and Chiri's bit. While I can understand the argument of "butchering the novel" for ZnT, SZS is a different creature. If you read the manga, you will find that each chapter is pretty much independent from each other. In essence, instead of "retcon," I would consider Nami's reintroduction as just a recap and the DVD as a "one hour summary" for those who didn't want to watch the entire first season (or to buy the DVDs of the entire season) to know who the girls are.

But hey, it is all "Gensaku Dori" and you do know the peril of straying from the author's original intention, right?
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Old 2008-01-12, 15:56   Link #75
Woland
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Some simple, minimalist, static AV from episode 1 (the missing spot was supposed to be Meru)


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Old 2008-01-12, 16:38   Link #76
plzd0ntkeelme
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I haven't seen the first season so I have no idea what to expect from this. My impression from the first ep is that the creator is trying to provide entertainment through some form of mindf*ck lol However, it's filled with creativity especially the animation style which is artistic and confusing at the same time. I also found the jokes to be funny and was laughing the whole time although it makes me start questioning my sanity.
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Old 2008-01-12, 17:07   Link #77
vas_a_morir
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Which character is singing which part in the new op?

I can tell a few, but there are 5 singing parts.
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Old 2008-01-12, 17:26   Link #78
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by vas_a_morir View Post
Which character is singing which part in the new op?

I can tell a few, but there are 5 singing parts.
Apart from the main singer Kenji Otsuki, you have Ai Nonaka, Marina Inoue, Yu Kobayashi, Miyuki Sawashiro and Ryoko Shintani --- they are: Fuura, Chiri, Kaere, Taro & Nami.
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Old 2008-01-12, 17:26   Link #79
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Spoiler for ep2:
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Old 2008-01-12, 17:55   Link #80
Mentorian
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Spoiler for Episode 2:
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