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Old 2007-12-23, 23:03   Link #61
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugari-Pizza View Post
I'm not trying to come off as elitist...I'm just a guy that enjoyed the scene back then and enjoys talking about it today.
Why not? I think the scene was better when everyone had an ego and tried to one up each other. We got better work and less emo crybaby bs with rivalry than we have now.
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Old 2007-12-24, 14:00   Link #62
DeathWolf
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@Shii:
I had a good laugh at your "stunning, seamless sign work", way to go for fanboyism of work that was nothing special.(and better afx work had been done far away in the past before that, including by ec-chi from triad, even back in the UA times)

I still think that whole page is a troll flame fest inviting lair, just there to show off some love for a few given groups. Just the few select groups being repetidely shows that imho.
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Old 2007-12-25, 02:38   Link #63
Edge
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ADTRW was one of the first groups to adopt Matroska softsubs. We braved much resistance in 2004, but by 2005 Matroska had caught on and today many new groups have been formed by people willing to drop their egotism. Some groups even release the subtitle file only, allowing anyone to make their own encode.
Not to say that you've stated your group was first to jump on the Matroska boat or anything, but I thought I'd mention this nevertheless. To my knowledge, Shounen-Ai (which later became Shoujo-Ai after mircx went kaboom), were the first group to release in the Matroska format, albeit with hardsubs back in 2003. Perhaps not significant enough to add to your essay, but it was one of the first signs (to my knowledge, correct me if wrong, someone) of the lack of enthusiasm in adopting a new container in the fansub world. S-Ai's releases of YamiBou mostly went unnoticed, with people favouring Miyuki-Fansubs' orthodox XviD/avi approach.

OrochiTux recently mentioned to yours truly about the possibility of re-releasing the series with a DVD source, but since Shinsen churned out the whole series backed with a shiny DVD source not so long ago, your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not it'll go ahead.

Anyhow, apologies for the digression.
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Old 2007-12-25, 04:18   Link #64
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Not to say that you've stated your group was first to jump on the Matroska boat or anything, but I thought I'd mention this nevertheless. To my knowledge, Shounen-Ai (which later became Shoujo-Ai after mircx went kaboom), were the first group to release in the Matroska format, albeit with hardsubs back in 2003. Perhaps not significant enough to add to your essay, but it was one of the first signs (to my knowledge, correct me if wrong, someone) of the lack of enthusiasm in adopting a new container in the fansub world. S-Ai's releases of YamiBou mostly went unnoticed, with people favouring Miyuki-Fansubs' orthodox XviD/avi approach.

OrochiTux recently mentioned to yours truly about the possibility of re-releasing the series with a DVD source, but since Shinsen churned out the whole series backed with a shiny DVD source not so long ago, your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not it'll go ahead.

Anyhow, apologies for the digression.
Since I was in miyuki at that time, and I remember quite well the period. Matroska was used before that, during some mini ogg fad that went on during the aniverse days. No group should really claim to fame on using a frickin media container >.>. Thats like the whole, "who used textsub first with .ass," or "Who first used ssa's {\k} function". Well thats simple isn't it, the ppl who MADE IT. The people you credit for the innovation or existance of it, should be the people who thought it up and then made it happen.

BTW, the first ppl to really use MKV big time were the anime dvd rippers, not the fansubbers.
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Old 2007-12-25, 11:42   Link #65
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathWolf View Post
@Shii:
I had a good laugh at your "stunning, seamless sign work", way to go for fanboyism of work that was nothing special.(and better afx work had been done far away in the past before that, including by ec-chi from triad, even back in the UA times)
I have no idea what you're talking about Give me example screenshots or something. I only watch about one or two series every year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
BTW, the first ppl to really use MKV big time were the anime dvd rippers, not the fansubbers.
I was really talking about softsub adoption.
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Old 2007-12-25, 12:39   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shii View Post
I was really talking about softsub adoption.
I'm pretty sure the rippers often did dual-audio with softsubs.

-Tofu
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Old 2007-12-25, 12:42   Link #67
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofusensei View Post
I'm pretty sure the rippers often did dual-audio with softsubs.

-Tofu
beat me to it ;p
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Old 2007-12-25, 17:07   Link #68
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofusensei View Post
I'm pretty sure the rippers often did dual-audio with softsubs.

-Tofu
I don't give a care, as they didn't do the translations themselves, did they now?
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Old 2007-12-25, 18:58   Link #69
cyth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shii View Post
I don't give a care, as they didn't do the translations themselves, did they now?
Does it really matter? Whether you (or I) like it or not they are a part of this online community and they have influenced the overall fansubbing community to use these technologies. They started using MKV and softsubs sooner because the format had similar features to DVD, meaning multiple audio tracks, video with or without subtitles, chapters... In other words, no, your group didn't have much influence--if any--over this issue.
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Old 2007-12-25, 22:54   Link #70
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Indeed, what might have been the real big influence was that several DVD rippers moved into the actual fansubbing community (mostly as encoders and to a lesser degree as typesetters/editors/timers) in 2004-2005. I'd say that's one of the larger influences on the technology used in fansubs.
(Just take a look at the origins of CCCP, and how some of the features of Aegisub mostly useful for processing OCR'ed subtitles.)
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Old 2007-12-26, 02:25   Link #71
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfs View Post
Indeed, what might have been the real big influence was that several DVD rippers moved into the actual fansubbing community (mostly as encoders and to a lesser degree as typesetters/editors/timers) in 2004-2005. I'd say that's one of the larger influences on the technology used in fansubs.
(Just take a look at the origins of CCCP, and how some of the features of Aegisub mostly useful for processing OCR'ed subtitles.)
quite true, though i didn't know any rippers turned anything except distro or encoder/something else. They always came over as encoders then started taking on other tasks. But hell who knows, maybe a few came in as editors or tsers.
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Old 2007-12-26, 14:36   Link #72
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yah, most to all ex-DVD rippers i know are encoders, distro, and typesetters.
but yah, jfs pretty much stated the facts
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Old 2008-01-15, 06:08   Link #73
Ayanami9870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfs View Post
Indeed, what might have been the real big influence was that several DVD rippers moved into the actual fansubbing community (mostly as encoders and to a lesser degree as typesetters/editors/timers) in 2004-2005. I'd say that's one of the larger influences on the technology used in fansubs.
(Just take a look at the origins of CCCP, and how some of the features of Aegisub mostly useful for processing OCR'ed subtitles.)
I agree. On top of BitTorrent and H.264, DVD rippers have come in and changed fansubbing in many ways. For those who can't shake that feeling that something isn't the same, I would surmise that it's because of DVD rippers.

I know some who generally don't think of DVD ripping as fansubbing, and are not too concerned with karaoke and having things in HD when divx3 and colored romanji text was a familiar sight and people today still watch shows on youtube/mobile devices in whatever video quality. The enjoyment of subbing was simply working to spread anime ourselves to give something back. That was it. I remember when Soldats unleashed its first pair of 50 send slot XDCC bots and the world was thrilled. It was a simple kind of enjoyment. We didn't really care about download counts really, until bittorrent showed up.

Now, fansubbers derive fun and enjoyment in a different way: technical ingenuity. You can't deny what the past few years have done for us technologically. Aegisub, CCCP, developments in x264, containers, softsubs with chapters, etc. While technology is not the end-all-be-all of what a fansub should be, this is the trend. You could call it an extension of the ambitions we had for our time, so in a sense it's not entirely different from back then. With that, you draw in a different class of people. And since the DVD rippers sort of came in and gave everybody new weapons and toys, most of the newer subbers worship and easily forgive the rippers for any ethical shortcomings, as it is now about quantity over quality, for the most part. We're dealing with 250+ shows a year after all, people, many of which we hope get licensed in some capacity, if domestic companies can still afford to do them all. If not, I think it's fair for us to step in, using whatever we have in the arsenal.

That said, what the older subbers experienced was a product of its time. As time passes, things change, and subbers now enjoy the hobby in different way. Those before them built the bridge, and those after them aim to make it wider, stronger and prettier. But I know there'll always be a few who, behind all the sparkly AFX and shiny HD graphics, will remember the fundamentals, the simple enjoyment, that has kept fansubbing going for more than 25 years.

Last edited by Ayanami9870; 2008-01-15 at 06:21.
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