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Old 2008-01-15, 15:02   Link #81
Mentar
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O_o

Well, I've picked it up the usual "first ep never hurts" way, watched it and wondered if it was actually episode 11 or so.

The bad stuff first: The storyboard for introduction is a mess. A terrible, unmitigated mess. Who is the girl? Why is she sent "into the world"? Why does she want to link up with Pistol guy (sorry, making his life more exciting is no convincing reason)? Why _the hell_ does Pistol guy want to link up with her? Who is the second guy all too eagerly willing to go on errands for her? Why does nobody wonder how comes that they're suddenly traveling around as a triplet? And - most of all - what the HELL is the point of all this nonsense?

No answer, not even traces. From a storyboard editor perspective, this is a flat F.

Now to the good stuff: I like the female lead. She's got spunk, she's got an attitude, and the sarcastic exchanges with Pistol guy were amusing. Also, I like the character art. I think I can follow this without pain and some occasional chuckles.

So, all things together, a very strange beginning, but let's see where this mess goes. It's got some potential at least!
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Old 2008-01-15, 15:33   Link #82
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Perhaps it has more potential than most anime series airing this season (ateast more than Rosario to Vampire, Rental magica...) but then there are many good series airing this season .
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Old 2008-01-15, 16:01   Link #83
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@ Mentar ~ ah yea the first ep is confusing but you should find ep 2 a lot more "smooth" flowing. Still no answers for your questions atm but that should come in due time
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Old 2008-01-15, 16:44   Link #84
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I'm surprised at the number of people here and elsewhere who expected answers from the first episode. It's a standard storytelling device for the opening of a series to do nothing but raise questions. Who are these people? Why are they together? What are they doing? What's going on? Many well-known stories have plopped the reader/viewer down in the middle with no build-up or introduction whatsoever. From there, the viewer is exposed to what led to the current situation as well as how the current situation evolves for the future. True, this story-telling method is not the most common. The most common method would be the straight linear method. But this style is common enough that I don't understand why people are upset or consider it a bad point when they encounter it.
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Old 2008-01-15, 17:00   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKK View Post
I'm surprised at the number of people here and elsewhere who expected answers from the first episode. It's a standard storytelling device for the opening of a series to do nothing but raise questions. Who are these people? Why are they together? What are they doing? What's going on? Many well-known stories have plopped the reader/viewer down in the middle with no build-up or introduction whatsoever. From there, the viewer is exposed to what led to the current situation as well as how the current situation evolves for the future. True, this story-telling method is not the most common. The most common method would be the straight linear method. But this style is common enough that I don't understand why people are upset or consider it a bad point when they encounter it.
Well, there's one major difference: Of course you can do the "running start" - jumping into the action, and then gradually introducing the players. However, this anime seems to start at the beginning. The characters don't know each other. And yet, for some inexplicable reason, loner type Pistol guy begins to travel with ojouchan. Why? I _need_ a reason here, or at least a hint of a reason, otherwise it's illogical and perceived "out of character". Without proper explanation, this reeks like "railroading" to me and is poor storywriting. Then, errant dude. Pistol guy doesn't even question who this guy is - yet, for another inexplicable reason, he now seems part of the travel group.

Actually, it's stuff like this which is usually part of the storyboard editor's tasks: To make sure that what happens is consistent with the viewer's knowledge. The way this introduction was made reminded me rather of the work of a rushed rookie GM who insufficiently prepared a new fantasy roleplaying evening.
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Old 2008-01-15, 17:10   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Well, there's one major difference: Of course you can do the "running start" - jumping into the action, and then gradually introducing the players. However, this anime seems to start at the beginning. The characters don't know each other. And yet, for some inexplicable reason, loner type Pistol guy begins to travel with ojouchan. Why? Without proper explanation, this reeks like "railroading" to me and is poor storywriting. Then, errant dude. Pistol guy doesn't even question who this guy is - yet, for another inexplicable reason, he now seems part of the travel group.
Ah, I see where the confusion comes from now. And you're right; it's the scriptwriters' fault for not making it very clear that there's been a multiple month time skip between Rahzel meeting Alzeid and the two of them meeting the ghost lady. The anime's only real clue to the time skip is the change in their wardrobe. When Rahzel and Alzeid meet they're wearing lighter clothing. When they meet the ghost, they're wearing heavier clothing (sweaters and jackets). The time skip is not as obvious as it should be. For now, I assume that Baroqueheat joined the duo during this multiple month time skip. (That's not when Baroqueheat joined them in the manga. So I'm making an educated guess on this point.)
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Old 2008-01-15, 17:26   Link #87
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Originally Posted by LKK View Post
Ah, I see where the confusion comes from now. And you're right; it's the scriptwriters' fault for not making it very clear that there's been a multiple month time skip between Rahzel meeting Alzeid and the two of them meeting the ghost lady.
O_O

Naniiii?

Okay - thanks for the hint, really ... I think I'll just rewatch the episode and find out if things fit together better now. I mean, I remember several other details which made me go "huh?", like learning in a side-sentence that Rahzel is a magician and other things. I guess I'll give it another shot.
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Old 2008-01-15, 17:40   Link #88
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I guess I should hedge my bets a little. I know from the manga that there's been a time skip of a month or two between Alzeid and Rahzel's meeting and their encounter with the ghost. I took their change in wardrobe as a sign of the time skip since they were definitely wearing warmer clothing. It could be that my manga knowledge colored my interpretation of the anime.

I do think the anime makes it clear that Alzeid already knew Baroqueheat when Baroqueheat joined them on the foot bridge. After Baroqueheat says he worked hard on doing the errands, Alzeid says "Of course, you came late after taking a detour. You should at least do a little work." [Shinsen] So there's another indication of a time skip between A & R's initial meeting and the encounter with the ghost.
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Old 2008-01-15, 17:58   Link #89
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I think it was quite obvious the series was going for some quasi-disjointed narrative, ergo the jump from "I just met him" to "we behave like old buddies". The motivation of the characters should be shown bit by bit in later episodes (we learn Alzeid's reason to go on a journey in ep.2 for instance). A hint to that should be that the episodic plot in the first episode is not linear, either, as they are shown seeing the ghost before being shown accepting the job. The first meeting of Rahzel and Alzeid was pretty much a flashback, not the beginning of the episode plotline. Maybe it would have been better if it hadn't been the first scene of the series.

I quite like it when the characters and setting are no introduced bit by bit but everything starts seemingly from the middle. And as episode two was very solid, apart from the utterly non-animated "fights", I am sticking with watching this series.
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Old 2008-01-15, 18:25   Link #90
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I would have found it less confusing had all three of them had been together in the beginning. In that case it's clear we're supposed to wonder who they are and why they're together. As it was, characters were added in a haphazard and jarring fashion. Instead of wondering "Why did Alzeid agree to go with Rahzel?" I was left wondering "Are they going to explain why he decided to go with her? Or are they just going to ignore that little detail?" Usually you feel reassured that all will be explained eventually. But here, you're left wondering if they just forgot to include half the exposition.

But as I said, in the end I didn't really mind. From reading posts by manga readers it seems clear that things will, in fact, be explained. And since I found it entertaining, I'm content to wait and see what happens.
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Old 2008-01-15, 20:45   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
O_o

Well, I've picked it up the usual "first ep never hurts" way, watched it and wondered if it was actually episode 11 or so. [...]
... what he said ...

I can subscribe to almost every single word Mentar said. From what I heard I had high hopes for this anime and now I'm quite dissapointed. After episode 1 I was hoping for a bit more structure in episode 2 but not so. The story was beyond weak and terribly rushed.

Spoiler for episode 2, sarcastic summary:


Really too bad. The characters have potential. If there only was a story. At the moment it looks like a sequence of 2 min long semi-connected bonus clips that were originally delivered with the manga. I can't recall when i last saw an anime that was so blatanty transmitting the message, "If you haven't read the source you can as well f*ck off." If the source is a manga or light novel at least. It's not so unusual with games.
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Old 2008-01-15, 20:57   Link #92
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Ah ive watched plenty of things anime and non-anime that likes to throw you into the deep end of the pool at the start...No big there. What stood out was things like rahz little convo about revenge and betrayal she had with pistol guy (Im stealing your wording here ment...I liked it too much. ).

The whole thing had barely any impact because I don't know these people one bit...And then just kindof randomly she throws out there at the end of it that his love ones were killed? Eh ok if your gonna divulge background info here atleast give it some importance when it's said.

It's like "Oh well the characters already know this so we see no need to go into too much detail for your benefit".

Heaven knows I love a mystery, but this felt more like a narrative train wreck then preserving characters mystique...If they wanted to jump around timeline wise just start right with the ghost girl and the mansion. Why toss out things like her being ousted from her house or meeting up with pistol guy in an extremely half-assed way when there just causing more confusion then anything else...

Kinda reminds me of how Rental Magica time line jumps, but contained within a single episode they generally stay within a certain time frame...They aren't bouncing around what seems to be up to months between some scenes with little to no forewarning.

Well either way for as much as I cry about the flaws in narrative structure in the end the characters are charming enough to keep me watching.
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Old 2008-01-15, 23:44   Link #93
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There is a difference between illogical leaps and simple ambiguity. This show has no illogical leaps and only some ambiguity, simple ones concerning how the characters met each other. Those details are extremely simple to explain at any point in the series, and not necessary to be in the very first episodes.

My brains might have simply tolerated those ambiguities(not read the manga either), so I enjoyed this series tremendously. I judge an anime more on the smooth flowing logic behind a story, and dislike illogical actions or consequences only. Ambiguities are a non-issue. They will be resolved when the time comes.

It seems that Slice of Life and I are totally different. I disagreed on your comments about Seto no Hanayome too :P that was one of my favorite series. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Diversity is all good.
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Old 2008-01-16, 03:30   Link #94
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yay watched episode 2 and I think its gotten better.At least I now understand the relationship between razhel,alzeid and heat to a clearer extent.While the plot progresses as fast as it did in episode 1 I think I can get used to it.I am also now very interested to see how it differs from the manga version(after the series is aired).While it may not have the feel of kino no tabi I think it has developed a unique style of its own.Of course now I get the feeling that the later episodes will be centred around their individual adventures while having occasional flashbacks to reveal the backstories of the main cast little by little.
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Old 2008-01-16, 04:43   Link #95
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It seems that Slice of Life and I are totally different. I disagreed on your comments about Seto no Hanayome too :P that was one of my favorite series. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Diversity is all good.
I'm relieved that my comments (which I don't even recall) didn't make you falter. But I wouldn't compare Hatenkou Yuugi to SnH. To start with, the latter was already the wrong genre to make me get excited about it.

Back to HY. I wonder why people think this anime is told in a nonlinear fashion because I can't see that. The only exception I can recall is the first scene with the ghost, which hardly counts. It's a typical teaser scene often seen in otherwise temporal well-ordered shows. Something like that is typically put at the beginning of an episode, not right in the middle, but I blame that on the overall rushed script. And indeed, everything that happend before that scene would have fit nicely into one full epsiode told at a normal speed.

I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see a flashback later on (after all, almost every anime does that) but I don't expect too many gaps to be filled. I'm not even sure if in the anime, girl and dude #1 were really supposed to be together for a month when they met the ghost. And if it was only one or two days I'd be completely fine with that if it had been told properly. What's really missing is all the small things that distinguish a story from a mere story summary.
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Old 2008-01-16, 11:32   Link #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Back to HY. I wonder why people think this anime is told in a nonlinear fashion because I can't see that. The only exception I can recall is the first scene with the ghost, which hardly counts. It's a typical teaser scene often seen in otherwise temporal well-ordered shows. Something like that is typically put at the beginning of an episode, not right in the middle, but I blame that on the overall rushed script. And indeed, everything that happend before that scene would have fit nicely into one full epsiode told at a normal speed.
A linear fashion would have a start, middle and end. Right now we are thrown into the middle and working our way backwards, forwards, upwards or downwards. The backwards would be cleared up using flashbacks (I intend to know more about why she was thrown out of the house and why Alzeid agreed to join the band wagon) and the forwards hopefully would be less episodic compared to now, when they get into a longer plot ^^
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Old 2008-01-16, 11:57   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

Back to HY. I wonder why people think this anime is told in a nonlinear fashion because I can't see that. The only exception I can recall is the first scene with the ghost, which hardly counts. It's a typical teaser scene often seen in otherwise temporal well-ordered shows. Something like that is typically put at the beginning of an episode, not right in the middle, but I blame that on the overall rushed script. And indeed, everything that happend before that scene would have fit nicely into one full epsiode told at a normal speed.
Im basing my opinion on the fact that epi 1 blew threw vol 1 of the manga at ludacris speed. Thats my base for it being told in a nonlinear fashion. When it did finally slow down and the dust settled the concentrated most of epi 1 on the very last chap of the vol and introduced a character in epi 1 that isnt seen til vol 2. So from a manga perspective its a bit out of order.

I have not watched epi 2 but Im thinking by the time epi 3 airs we'll get a feel to how this anime is gonna go down, considering I believe its only 10 epis.
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Old 2008-01-16, 12:06   Link #98
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is this anime based on a shoujo manga? this anime certainly gives me that vibe, not exactly a fan of shoujo and lovey dovey stuff myself. But the comedy certainly makes up for it, hopefully we'll see more throughout.

The 1st episode is very good.
Yeah, its based on a shoujo manga. The manga is serialized in Comic Zero-Sum, a magazine aimed at junior and senior high school girls who love fantasy manga.

I checked the first episode, I'll see if I'll continue with it or not after 2 more episodes :P
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Old 2008-01-16, 12:16   Link #99
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2nd episode was weird and i still dont feel attached to the series nor the characters. But i had fun watching so ill continue for a bit to see if it keeps my interest. The potential is there but i wonder if it will really be brought out. First 2 episodes seems to confuse people and lack some direction.
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Old 2008-01-17, 22:21   Link #100
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I had great expectations in the art department but that turned out to be a bummer . The Manga art is crisp and fresh . The setting kind of displeased me basically I hate Victorian setting but seeing Alzeid pull out a gun I was satisfied . There was hope a neo modern setting . In a weird twisted way I was reminded of Roman Holiday but just replace the reporter with a thief . The character dynamics are fun a spoilt princess and her rogue anti hero . The sexual tension is undeniable.

Also I love the Ghost part don’t you all know I love ghost …… The quest is interesting in its own way . it was funny to see the two stuck up ego maniacs playing a game of chance while the Ghost was pouring her heart out . I already like this Dynamic Duo . Despite of first impressions I must say Alaeid is the conscience of the duo . I quite don’t get the third character introduced Baroqueheat . I cant quite figure out why is he travelling with Rahzel or whats his purpose . But I love that character and why I love the character well he is voiced by my favorite Seiyu Shinchiro Miki . I like the Ghost she wasn’t a pushover as shown . She has shades of gray that makes it even more fascinating .

Interesting character good quests lot of laughs I like this show already . The art could have been better
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