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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10 21 23.60%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 24 26.97%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 28 31.46%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 11.24%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 6.74%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-01-21, 21:13   Link #61
DX HBK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taelrak View Post
Pheles is awesome (compared to the rest of the cast so far that is)...

She manages to sum up the entirety of everyone in one sentence upon her arrival:

Wilhelmina: an old friend (which is of course her role to everyone else in every single situation in the past and now)

Margery: a spellcaster who doesn't care to see anything other than her objective

Shana: a hunter who indulges in her friendship

Yoshida: a single-minded, foolish girl

If the writers could have such awesome brevity, why didn't the apply it for an entire season+12 episodes?

Too bad her vision is so narrow...she'd be awesome if she had more perspective.
Well, Pheles's actions might very well give an inkling to what her true character is. Though what she'll do next is... well... I'd rather not say.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
This episode was more or less average as the pace of events was quite fast, but the episode pace itself wasn't exactly balanced (the start was really draggy, to say the least).
I wonder if they are doing another budget episode. It isn't as silly as the infamous "wow teacher" erratic character design, but the traits were overly simple and disproportionate, with very dull colors and such.

Wilhelmina's lack of cautiousness was a bit strange: she knew that pheles had such avatar spell, but she didn't expect that until it shows up... Well, obviously it might be not obvious to expect that, but seriously, some doubt would be preferable.
Now, the real cringe session was the complete lack of reaction from the crew when the avatar exploded, and pheles enters in the stage...
I mean, why are they waiting like... 45 seconds (20:51 => 21:36) like bunch of sitting ducks? They didn't even try to do anything when Pheles went psycho extracting on Yuuji?
I would expect Shana as hotblooded/hast to jump on the gun, but no, nothing...

The last scene was quite nice to deal a shocker and reversed situation, but seriously, the whole episode wasn't exactly flowing well.
I think they faltered from their original primary objectives due to distractive new ideas and redid things at the last minute, hence the drop in animation quality. Perhaps they've lost balance on how to add some stuff from the light novels in tandem to making original content.

Budget episode?


Quote:
Originally Posted by OverFunk View Post
Oh wow. Can't say I saw that coming. I mean, the Pheles thing was in the realm of expectations, but after that, wow.

I was dissapointed on how Pheles had seemed to give up so easily on 13, then she more than made up for it on this episode.
Deception seem to be the core of Pheles's game plan. Besides, it was her avatar that appeared first.
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Old 2008-01-21, 21:13   Link #62
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Pheles: Screw being good, it's time I reveal MY TRUE POWER! BWAHAHAHA--(gets Falcon Punch'ed by HiHoSilver)
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Old 2008-01-21, 21:21   Link #63
taelrak
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Originally Posted by KaneDragon View Post
Pheles: Screw being good, it's time I reveal MY TRUE POWER! BWAHAHAHA--(gets Falcon Punch'ed by HiHoSilver)
Yea, that's what I mean about being too narrow-sighted. She focuses on Johan and ignores things that matters.

She should have killed off everyone there while they relaxed their guard, and then thoroughly examined Yuuji and dissected the Reiji Maigo from him from relative safety, to find out exactly what was in it and then figure out a way to extract Johan while killing off Sakai and whatever else is mutating the Mystes.

Instead, she goes in and instead of taking advantage of what she calls the "perfect" opportunity, lets down her own guard (knowing that there's something strange about the Reiji Maigo), and gets punched, losing whatever advantage she had, and now being vulnerable to an outside attack from third parties that she wasn't planning on.

That's called a perfect opportunity 'wasted'.

Oh well, her 1-line descriptions of everyone else were still awesome
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Old 2008-01-21, 21:25   Link #64
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Originally Posted by taelrak View Post
She should have killed off everyone there while they relaxed their guard, and then thoroughly examined Yuuji and dissected the Reiji Maigo from him from relative safety, to find out exactly what was in it and then figure out a way to extract Johan while killing off Sakai and whatever else is mutating the Mystes.
She's not that ebil. ;_;
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Old 2008-01-21, 21:45   Link #65
taelrak
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Originally Posted by KaneDragon View Post
She's not that ebil. ;_;
Actually, originally, if she thought that was what it would take for her to be reunited with Johan willingly forever, she'd probably do it without a second's hesitation. The only reason she didn't was because she didn't think she needed to, and because she didn't think she needed to guard herself against Johan's container (the Reiji Maigo and what's in it, not the kid).

She had the will and the willingness to make the appropriate sacrifices to see her goals through - she just didn't have the presence of mind to recognize the dangers of it even after she had been warned by multiple clues - hence her blindness.

That's why I find her the most tragic of all the characters really - she's the only one with any decent willpower and the recognition that sacrifices are needed to achieve a greater goal, but her fatal flaws make it so she can't fulfill her potential. Whereas all the other characters lack that willpower (except maybe Wilhelmina, but she's a bit too wishy-washy too).

That's also part of the reason why I liked the original Shana (before she got converted by Yuuji), Corpse Retriever, and the members of the Bell - they actually have what it takes to get things done.

Of course I'm making a value judgment on which sort of goals are worth attaining here - for example, you could possibly argue that Yoshida also has some goal of some sort and that she has a lot of willpower in achieving it - but she's rather small in the grand scheme of things so I don't think she matters or is relevant in anything except as a physical manifestation of Sakai's weakness.
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Old 2008-01-21, 22:52   Link #66
holyman282
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This ep was obviously not as good as the previous ep but still pretty good... I was just about to hate this ep for the cheesy lines spouted by Pheles at the end only to be shocked that she was actually an avatar! That was a big twist, then pheles gets stabbed by a huge silver arm out of Yuji's stomach! Those two scenes made me forget about the cheesy scenes in this ep! Finally Konoe makes a debut after several ep of absence and next ep looks to be very interesting.
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Old 2008-01-21, 23:11   Link #67
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Or perhaps I should clarify, I don't want her to be ebil. ;_;

Green hair~ =3
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Old 2008-01-21, 23:16   Link #68
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If this were Death Note, Pheles would be Light, and Yuji would be Near.
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Old 2008-01-21, 23:24   Link #69
taelrak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneDragon View Post
Or perhaps I should clarify, I don't want her to be ebil. ;_;

Green hair~ =3
I like her just as she is! Everyone needs a little evil now and then

Quote:
Originally Posted by HashiriyaR32 View Post
If this were Death Note, Pheles would be Light, and Yuji would be Near.
Hrm, I guess Pheles could be semi-Light-ish, although I don't think she's smart enough for that. She's also not arrogant - just obsessive (so that she uses everyone around her and ignores them, not because she thinks they're inferior in some sense to her, but just that she doesn't consider them as important to her as her goal).

Why is Yuji Near though? He doesn't have the intelligence, or calculating insight into human behavior, or the willpower to achieve his goals (or even have a goal to begin with for that matter) that Near does. Near is also not very selfish, although he's certainly not self-less, whereas Yuuji is selfish AND self-less (in the sense that he doesn't have a good valuation of self).

Yuuji reminds me more of Matsuda. Average, not very bright or strong (his strength is from something independent of himself, i.e. borrowed strength), not visionary, and not really particularly noteworthy - except for what's inside him. He's always in the right place at the right time, but none of it is by his own choice, and he's always being moved instead of being the mover, reacting instead of acting. He holds strongly onto his ideals, not because he believes in them for what they are, but because he clings to them like a life-raft so that he doesn't lose track of what he's fighting for (or even living for). As a result, he turns out hopelessly naive and optimistic in his sense of justice and morality without the power to back it up, but he doesn't even really understand what it is that he feels is right and why that is right, and blinds himself to any other possible truths. That seems to fit the stereotype of Matsuda almost perfectly.
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Old 2008-01-21, 23:27   Link #70
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Originally Posted by HashiriyaR32 View Post
If this were Death Note, Pheles would be Light, and Yuji would be Near.
Are you reading too much into that one "Just as planned" smirk by Pheles? Comparisons to DN characters seem somewhat insulting to the SnS characters, Light's intelligence notwithstanding.
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Old 2008-01-21, 23:27   Link #71
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I agree that it felt odd how everyone just stood there and watched Pheles move to deal with Yuji. They are just floating up there and the others are just looking. As if the one lined descriptions of each of them were so piercing that they couldn't even move. Would have at least expected Shana to charge in there, since she'd been itching to take Pheles for a while.

Was surprising to find out that Pheles was using an avatar. But makes sense why not much happened most of the episode. Just holding back until her main body could arrive to take care of it. Besides got some interesting info.

I wonder how many times Shana and Kazumi are going to say they aren't going to lose. Just agree on a threesome or something and then you don't have to keep bringing it up. Both of you win and that's that.
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Old 2008-01-21, 23:33   Link #72
taelrak
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I agree that it felt odd how everyone just stood there and watched Pheles move to deal with Yuji. They are just floating up there and the others are just looking. As if the one lined descriptions of each of them were so piercing that they couldn't even move. Would have at least expected Shana to charge in there, since she'd been itching to take Pheles for a while.

Was surprising to find out that Pheles was using an avatar. But makes sense why not much happened most of the episode. Just holding back until her main body could arrive to take care of it. Besides got some interesting info.

I wonder how many times Shana and Kazumi are going to say they aren't going to lose. Just agree on a threesome or something and then you don't have to keep bringing it up. Both of you win and that's that.
I think Pheles needs a change of outfits. She's been wearing that one style for centuries it seems.

Agreed about the whole Shana/Yoshida thing. At this point, I don't care if either of them wins or loses because neither of them are interesting anymore. Shana was interesting at one point, but that ended a season and half ago when she turned into the 2nd Yoshida.

I wonder if anyone from that setting ever considered that there are more important things out there to worry about instead of some teenage crush?

I mean, hey, the world's precariously balanced, hinging on the whims of a group of revenge-driven half-insane Flame Haze on one hand and an equally insane group of monsters on the other side, and now BOTH sides know exactly where a certain Mystes that can tip the balance is.

What do you do?

You stay right in the middle of a fairly populous city, among the people you care about and want to "protect", and spend everyday agonizing in idiotic bliss about who's lunch you're going to eat...somehow conveniently forgetting the fact that your very presence in effect makes everyone you care about a hostage to be used against you.

It's one thing if an obsessive immortal woman nicknamed the "eternal lover" flies around searching for her love for centuries - people expect her to be singleminded and strange.

Is it any wonder that Pheles laughed at them when she first appeared?

I'm glad Hecate's finally back into the fray though. She was interesting, at least before she turned into a girl.
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Old 2008-01-22, 00:02   Link #73
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God I was banking that Pheles was going to be an evil, selfish behotch, and thank god she was. I was gagging the entire freaking episode otherwise. Why isn't Yoshida dead yet? Why is Shana continuing this joke of an accepted rivalry with Yoshida? I'm going to confess my love to him! I won't lose to you! Guess what, NOONE BLOODY CARES ANYMORE. If it wasn't the constant close ups of Carmel (<3 <3 <3 <3 <3) I swear I'd be killing off the studio behind Shana, one by one. I mean Pheles becoming friends with Yoshida? Give me a break, seriously.

Speaking of which, this is the ONLY good thing Yoshida's contributed thus far (s1 and s2)

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8...p108039oa5.png
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1...p108310we0.png
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6...p108515ry0.png

Chalk that up to my ex-gf getting me hooked on that look (jeans and no top + bra, or better yet, shirt, and no jeans + panties~).

Ironically enough, TANAKA HAS ROMANTICALLY PROGRESSED FARTHER in 5 minutes (the combined amount of time between his worthwhile scenes in this episode and the previous one) then Yuji has in 1 1/2 seasons. Go figure.
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Old 2008-01-22, 00:02   Link #74
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I wonder how many times Shana and Kazumi are going to say they aren't going to lose. Just agree on a threesome or something and then you don't have to keep bringing it up. Both of you win and that's that.
Yeah it's getting really annoying. In a way, they are both saying that Yuji WILL be theirs and yet don't act on those words. I'm hoping eventually one of the two stops saying they're not going to "lose" and finally does something decisive to "win" Yuji's heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
Ironically enough, TANAKA HAS ROMANTICALLY PROGRESSED FARTHER in 5 minutes (the combined amount of time between his worthwhile scenes in this episode and the previous one) then Yuji has in 1 1/2 seasons. Go figure.
I'm happy there's at least one definitive high school couple in this anime. Good for Tanaka and Oga.
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Old 2008-01-22, 00:08   Link #75
taelrak
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Meh, that look isn't that great if the person wearing the outfit isn't that hot. If Pheles or Wilhelmina was wearing that...okay that'd probably just look weird...but still better than Yoshida!
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Old 2008-01-22, 00:17   Link #76
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Meh, that look isn't that great if the person wearing the outfit isn't that hot. If Pheles or Wilhelmina was wearing that...okay that'd probably just look weird...but still better than Yoshida!
Well put a paper bag over Yoshida's head because the rest of her is certainly worth admiring.

imho of course.
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Old 2008-01-22, 00:24   Link #77
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This episode really dragged and was a total disappointment after ep 13. HOWEVER, the cliffhanger was really awesome, especially since we'll get to find wtf is up with Konoe soon and Pheles's awesome arrival.
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Old 2008-01-22, 00:44   Link #78
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Originally Posted by MidoriHiME View Post
This episode really dragged and was a total disappointment after ep 13. HOWEVER, the cliffhanger was really awesome, especially since we'll get to find wtf is up with Konoe soon and Pheles's awesome arrival.
I was thinking no one would get any excited over this episode, though, after looking at the preview from episode 13...

@MasterChibi: hmmm... what episode are those images from? I don't remember them...
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Old 2008-01-22, 01:00   Link #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmkharuhiism View Post
Yeah it's getting really annoying. In a way, they are both saying that Yuji WILL be theirs and yet don't act on those words. I'm hoping eventually one of the two stops saying they're not going to "lose" and finally does something decisive to "win" Yuji's heart.
It gets to the point where I'm thinking "ok Shana here's your chance, just drop her. That will end this thing once and for all." Then I think about the actual ramifications and let that subside a little.

Nice that they respect each other and all, but it does get old watching them reaffirm that often. Maybe by not losing they mean just spend time talking to each other rather than getting together with Yuji and settling this. Since if they keep it like that they won't win, but they aren't going to lose either.
Quote:
I'm happy there's at least one definitive high school couple in this anime. Good for Tanaka and Oga.
I'm with you there. Congrats to Tanaka and Oga. They were making some small progress before, but seeing someone you care about get blasted really got Tanaka moving. But he does realize now that time isn't infinite and he better just get moving.
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Old 2008-01-22, 01:14   Link #80
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@MasterChibi: hmmm... what episode are those images from? I don't remember them...
This episode, 14.
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